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DreadStunLock
06-26-2011, 02:23 PM
Hey guys, I was wondering why the Corel Painter 12 is so laggy on the brushes?

I can't even do a simple across the page stroke without it freezing and updating the strokes after like 3 seconds :/

It never happened before, I did install all the workspaces from the main website and the brushes, but I don't get why is it so slow?

I have 8GB of Ram, I can draw on Photoshop on 20,000x20,000 with 10 layers and only then it starts to give a minimal lag which is still bareable, on this, I have 2000x2000 canvas, and it's already dieng on me :(

What's going on? :(

Jinbrown
06-26-2011, 05:12 PM
Hey guys, I was wondering why the Corel Painter 12 is so laggy on the brushes?

I can't even do a simple across the page stroke without it freezing and updating the strokes after like 3 seconds :/

It never happened before, I did install all the workspaces from the main website and the brushes, but I don't get why is it so slow?

I have 8GB of Ram, I can draw on Photoshop on 20,000x20,000 with 10 layers and only then it starts to give a minimal lag which is still bareable, on this, I have 2000x2000 canvas, and it's already dieng on me :(

What's going on? :(

Hi,

I'm guessing it was you I responded to this morning. Here's the quote of my response in case you didn't see it:



Hi Dread86,

A couple of Corel's Painter developers have recently started their Blogs here at The PainterFactory and you might find your answer there:

Chris' Brush Blog (http://painterfactory.com/blogs/chris_brush_blog/default.aspx)

Dan's Painter Insights (http://painterfactory.com/blogs/dans_painter_insights/default.aspx)


Let us know if you still need help and we'll do our best.


Jinny

DreadStunLock
06-26-2011, 10:14 PM
Wait what? No, I am the only Dreadstunlock, I don't have any other "Dread" alias's

Also, he doesn't explain anything about why I would have such huge delay's on my brushes, I let Photoshop and Corel Painter 100% of the ram to use.

Erik Heyninck
07-03-2011, 06:53 PM
And that is your problem: in Photoshop's preferences, and I guess Painter will have the same, it is clearly indicated not to give more RAM to the application that some 60%. God knows what else you have running... I guess an OS and perhaps a browser, a virusscanner, firewall etc... can you imagine the constant fight?

Reduce that RAM and try again.

DreadStunLock
07-03-2011, 07:26 PM
Nope, that didn't do anything :/ Still same laggy delayed brush strokes :(

Fes
07-06-2011, 12:26 PM
Is it on all brushes or just some brushes?

If a brush you're using has the Feature option in the property bar try turning off the feature lock (lock icon last on bar) and reset the brush. The new Lock function tries to keep the Feature (bristle size) constant when you resize the brush, but it can chew through the memory and sometimes goes a bit random, and tries to give too small a feature size on a large brush which causes the lag. It's particularly bad on the Liquid Ink brushes. Turning of the lock stops this, and you have to change the feature manually if you want to.

Your obviously on a 64bit system with 8gb ram - and I assume you have a multicore chip? Some uses have reported increased response time by decreasing the amount of cores that Painter can use. This might be the same problem as saying use all the ram available. ie Painter then tends to fight with any other program you have running, trying to use all your resourses (which it doesn't actually need, but this clash causes a conflict). There isn't currently a permanent solution for this (Corel need to address this in a bug patch - fingers crossed). But if your on Windows (I don't know about Mac) after you've started P12 up, you can open the Task Manager, go to the Processes Tab, Select Painter 12, right click and choose Set Affinity then untick a few cores. Some users think Painter doesn't like 'virtual' cores, but I'm not sure about this. I have 6 true cores, and in Set Affinity it shows 12 (0-11). I believe (though I'm not absolutely sure) that core 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 are the real ones and the inbetweens are virtual, so those are the ones I leave ticked.

However I think as long as you don't select all cores (leave one at least off) you may find an improvement in response.

DreadStunLock
07-10-2011, 12:28 AM
Is it on all brushes or just some brushes?

If a brush you're using has the Feature option in the property bar try turning off the feature lock (lock icon last on bar) and reset the brush. The new Lock function tries to keep the Feature (bristle size) constant when you resize the brush, but it can chew through the memory and sometimes goes a bit random, and tries to give too small a feature size on a large brush which causes the lag. It's particularly bad on the Liquid Ink brushes. Turning of the lock stops this, and you have to change the feature manually if you want to.

Your obviously on a 64bit system with 8gb ram - and I assume you have a multicore chip? Some uses have reported increased response time by decreasing the amount of cores that Painter can use. This might be the same problem as saying use all the ram available. ie Painter then tends to fight with any other program you have running, trying to use all your resourses (which it doesn't actually need, but this clash causes a conflict). There isn't currently a permanent solution for this (Corel need to address this in a bug patch - fingers crossed). But if your on Windows (I don't know about Mac) after you've started P12 up, you can open the Task Manager, go to the Processes Tab, Select Painter 12, right click and choose Set Affinity then untick a few cores. Some users think Painter doesn't like 'virtual' cores, but I'm not sure about this. I have 6 true cores, and in Set Affinity it shows 12 (0-11). I believe (though I'm not absolutely sure) that core 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 are the real ones and the inbetweens are virtual, so those are the ones I leave ticked.

However I think as long as you don't select all cores (leave one at least off) you may find an improvement in response.

I tried the cores in every possible way, it happens on every bloody brush, I even done the "Hold Shift and open Corel Painter" to reset it.

Before though I was able to do anything on it, the Kaleidoscope thing was smooth as hell, and now I feel like this rubbish of a software just ripped me off my cash...

I really want to have this feel of "Real" watercolour and acryllic type of a feel where I can mix colours and etc.

But so far, it's being a stuck up b(((((.

Also I can't seem to find the bloody Lock Feature button of somesort, so I posted a screenshot of my layout.


http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3453/screenshotcp.jpg

Per-Anders
07-10-2011, 01:47 AM
Painter 12 crapped out on me the other day too, the color palette went AWOL and refused to come back, brushes froze part way through strokes as if the computer was doing some incredibly heavy task (nothing else was running), even for very thin simple brushes. I'm really not quite sure what to make of it all right now. In the end I went off and used Artrage... on the iPad! I was feeling a bit grumpy towards my computer after the whole episode and it was quicker when all I wanted to do was knock out a rough sketch of an idea.

DreadStunLock
07-10-2011, 02:00 AM
Painter 12 crapped out on me the other day too, the color palette went AWOL and refused to come back, brushes froze part way through strokes as if the computer was doing some incredibly heavy task (nothing else was running), even for very thin simple brushes. I'm really not quite sure what to make of it all right now. In the end I went off and used Artrage... on the iPad! I was feeling a bit grumpy towards my computer after the whole episode and it was quicker when all I wanted to do was knock out a rough sketch of an idea.


YES! That's the one, Froze part way, and it made me feel like my CPU is somekind of a grand daddy, doing fudge-all midway through the strokes :/

workbench
07-12-2011, 01:43 AM
Disable multicore on the brush settings.

DreadStunLock
07-13-2011, 05:23 PM
Disable multicore on the brush settings.

Found it! It worked on all of the brushes, but now the Eraser is being a lagfest

pentool
07-13-2011, 09:10 PM
Reading so many good things on Painter 12, I have placed my order this morning. I didn't even bother downloading the trial first (big mistake) because of the positive reviews.

Then, I came to work, and I thought, what the heck, I download the trial. Install it. Run. Boy, it's HORRIBLE! Every single brush is lagging 1-2 seconds at least. Use a Wacom Intuos 3. Even when I use a basic pencil I get a lag. Then the worst part is, when I turn the stylus around to use the eraser. Stroke the eraser on the canvas a tad, then lift it up. Then again. Repeat this fast. It's horrible. The cursor is jumping around on the screen and starts erasing other parts of the canvas because it just can't keep up.

Looking at the task manager, every time I make a quick stroke all the 8 threads on the computer kick in. Lift the stylus up, the threads are killed. Then it repeats. No wonder it's bad.

So I start searching for answers, and find a few places that recommends to disable the multicore settings in the brush setting panel. Are you kidding me!? Am I supposed to go through all the brushes and keep unchecking this setting? A program should work out of the box especially on a powerful box.

But unchecking the multicore setting doesn't even matter. For example, I disabled multicore for the 2B pencil AND the eraser. Yet, when I turn the stylus around (from pencil to eraser) the cursor still jumps around the screen. And when I start erasing with small strokes, I still get a huge lag (as described above).

I set the memory to 50%. Rebooted. Nothing. The canvas is set to 72dpi. Don't mean to offend huge painter fans here, but my experience with this v12 is just plain bad.

I don't have any antivirus or other heavy background tasks running except for the basic system tasks plus the wacom drivers. On top of this, if I dare to play music in the background, the music starts skipping every time I do a stroke or change brushes. What the hell!? I have absolutely no issue of any kind using the brushes in PS (CS5).

Also, ArtRage has just recently been updated with multicore support. I don't get absolutely no lag there what-so-ever.

So I just got off the phone with the sales guy. Good thing my order was not yet processed. I cancelled it.

This is plain BAD. A user should not be forced to start making all sorts of changes right out of the box just to be able to do 10 strokes using a basic 2B pencil and an eraser.

(Work config)
Win XP Pro SP3 32bit / 3G
Intel i7 920 (Bloomfield)
Nvidia GTX 285

DreadStunLock
07-14-2011, 03:02 PM
Reading so many good things on Painter 12, I have placed my order this morning. I didn't even bother downloading the trial first (big mistake) because of the positive reviews.

Then, I came to work, and I thought, what the heck, I download the trial. Install it. Run. Boy, it's HORRIBLE! Every single brush is lagging 1-2 seconds at least. Use a Wacom Intuos 3. Even when I use a basic pencil I get a lag. Then the worst part is, when I turn the stylus around to use the eraser. Stroke the eraser on the canvas a tad, then lift it up. Then again. Repeat this fast. It's horrible. The cursor is jumping around on the screen and starts erasing other parts of the canvas because it just can't keep up.

Looking at the task manager, every time I make a quick stroke all the 8 threads on the computer kick in. Lift the stylus up, the threads are killed. Then it repeats. No wonder it's bad.

So I start searching for answers, and find a few places that recommends to disable the multicore settings in the brush setting panel. Are you kidding me!? Am I supposed to go through all the brushes and keep unchecking this setting? A program should work out of the box especially on a powerful box.

But unchecking the multicore setting doesn't even matter. For example, I disabled multicore for the 2B pencil AND the eraser. Yet, when I turn the stylus around (from pencil to eraser) the cursor still jumps around the screen. And when I start erasing with small strokes, I still get a huge lag (as described above).

I set the memory to 50%. Rebooted. Nothing. The canvas is set to 72dpi. Don't mean to offend huge painter fans here, but my experience with this v12 is just plain bad.

I don't have any antivirus or other heavy background tasks running except for the basic system tasks plus the wacom drivers. On top of this, if I dare to play music in the background, the music starts skipping every time I do a stroke or change brushes. What the hell!? I have absolutely no issue of any kind using the brushes in PS (CS5).

Also, ArtRage has just recently been updated with multicore support. I don't get absolutely no lag there what-so-ever.

So I just got off the phone with the sales guy. Good thing my order was not yet processed. I cancelled it.

This is plain BAD. A user should not be forced to start making all sorts of changes right out of the box just to be able to do 10 strokes using a basic 2B pencil and an eraser.

(Work config)
Win XP Pro SP3 32bit / 3G
Intel i7 920 (Bloomfield)
Nvidia GTX 285

Thank god Photoshop has turn page feature, cause that's the only reason I really liked Corel Painter...What a waste of money...

Clappy3D
07-15-2011, 08:52 AM
Sorry guys but my experience has been the complete opposite. My brushes have no lag, unless I make them ridiculously huge. It runs like a dream. Way better than Painter 11.

Specs: 16 gigs of ram, i7, 4 cores, windows 7.

Not trying to discredit what your saying, but rather point out that your experience is not universal.

Could be a hardware issue.

MC

DreadStunLock
07-15-2011, 11:29 AM
Sorry guys but my experience has been the complete opposite. My brushes have no lag, unless I make them ridiculously huge. It runs like a dream. Way better than Painter 11.

Specs: 16 gigs of ram, i7, 4 cores, windows 7.

Not trying to discredit what your saying, but rather point out that your experience is not universal.

Could be a hardware issue.

MC

You got 16gb of ram, I got 8gb, you have an i7, I have an AMD 955 Quad, which is equivalent to the i5 which is barely any difference because I can do heavy digital paintings on Photoshop without a problem. Same as anyone, Corel Painter on the other hand, barely handles 1 pencil stroke on my screen resolution across the page.

(On photoshop I can do paintings 20k by 20k)

workbench
07-15-2011, 03:56 PM
955 is way below the i5 sandy bridge, it's close to the i3 2100 (which is close to the i5 760) but only in applications that are multi-threaded (like CS5). Just open Anandtech's benchs or read the CPU reviews. You might want to check if there isn't some issues with AM3 instructions, Corel aren't exactly coding genius, even with Intel CPU's, Painter 12 has issues with the cpu's that have HT.

ArtRage is all kiddy presets, glitter? Who uses this garbage? And even then it's slow as hell, I don't get how anyone can say it's faster.

DreadStunLock
07-22-2011, 05:28 PM
955 is way below the i5 sandy bridge, it's close to the i3 2100 (which is close to the i5 760) but only in applications that are multi-threaded (like CS5). Just open Anandtech's benchs or read the CPU reviews. You might want to check if there isn't some issues with AM3 instructions, Corel aren't exactly coding genius, even with Intel CPU's, Painter 12 has issues with the cpu's that have HT.

Tech support forum states otherwise, but in anycase Corel Painter sucks, and the ratio of people being pleased with it is seriously shocking.

pentool
07-22-2011, 09:34 PM
ArtRage i...And even then it's slow as hell, I don't get how anyone can say it's faster.
ArtRage FLIES right out of the box without any need for tweaking brushes or making any adjustments.

workbench
07-22-2011, 11:13 PM
ArtRage FLIES right out of the box without any need for tweaking brushes or making any adjustments.

That might be the case with files that aren't super-res and layered but I should mention that I haven't tried the new version that's multi-threaded. In any case, I don't think the two programs are comparable since they aim at two different audiences.

Painter 12 was very fast on my system but the new watercolors made it crash everytime, also using the UI was slow and jerky for some reason.

Fongool
08-07-2011, 06:34 PM
Just to pitch in my 2 cents...

I'm running a 2.40 gigahertz Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 in XP32 Pro with ~3GB ram (4gb installed, but 32 bit OS so I actually have access to less) and I'm working on a canvas that's 27 x 40 inches at 300 dpi and working with the standard oil brushes at an acceptable speed. Occasionally I'll get a little hiccup where a stroke may delay for a tenth of a second before drawing, but 99.9% real time feedback. And sometimes working with the UI gets a little sluggish and flakey, but nothing show stopping so far. I have a suspicion that if I scaled back my number of undos that might help...

I also disabled lots of my paper/brush/pattern/etc libraries to reduce the amount of RAM Painter is soaking up and turned off "enhanced brush ghosting". My brushes still have the "multicore" button checked.

Are you guys trying to use the fancy shmancy real bristle/real wet oil/real watercolor stuff? Those things run like crap for me even on a tiny canvas. But the standard brushes seem to be working fine for me even with the ludicrous canvas size...

donseeg
08-25-2011, 07:19 AM
Most all the time it is a hardware problem and not the software. Not tech enough to tell you specifically what to look for and there are so many different machine configurations those can be a beast to nail down. It could be something as simple as the ram you use. Cheap ram as good as the more expensive brands.... beats me...maybe/maybe not. I guess same could be said for about any hardware you have. LG DVD burners often needed a firmware update to work with Win7. You could have two identical DVD burners with different manufacture dates and one would work while one would not...Only point is that the problems with software are often hardware problems especially if you are building your own machines. Runs great 99% of the time...but it is that 1% that is the killer. Machine really are really not a good measure unless you are really using old hardware.

I would start with the tablet drivers. Once upon a time there was a strange behavior where the end of a stroke would jump off in some randomly vertical direction. Lots of complaining about Painter "sucking" but it was the Wacom driver as the issue. Try backing off a few versions of the driver you are using....really, the wacom drivers all do pretty much the same thing....like run the tablet....right. It may help.

Also, like stated earlier, some of Painters brushes are extremely processor heavy. Most the brushes are dab based (like all of Photoshop's brushes until CS5) where you are simply repeating a captured or defined shape to create the illusion of a brush stroke. The rendered brushes are a different beast. Everything you do with the stylus has to be computed and then painted. Takes lots of thinking especially with large brushes. CS5's mixer brushes are also rendered and if you try and use them at very large sizes with lots of bristles you will have lag. It is simply the nature of the tool. If you are using rendered strokes in Painter and noticing lag, you can sometimes adjust the damping slider and get quicker response. In CS5 make sure you turn off that darn brush preview that shows the brush dancing around and bristles bending...just using processor power that is better served with the actual brush. It is cool to watch though. :)

Anyway, sorry you are having frustrating problems. It is miserable to try and do something and not be able to get a tool to do what you want. I wish I could give you some ideas to try.

Personally, I can run Painter and Photoshop side by side for days on end without ever having a major problem with either. I almost never crash either one. I guess I am just lucky.

Don

vapsman88
08-30-2011, 06:49 AM
I have found that you need at least a dual core processor. I was running P11 on a single core and it was always slow then it got so even small brushes would lag. I switched to a system with a Core 2 Duo processor and it improved dramatically.

I recently tried the demo of P12 and no brush I tried, even at a 100 size would lag. That is the main reason I will upgrade this week. None of the other changes interest me other than the Temporal Color Palette.

~John

conbom
08-31-2011, 06:37 AM
I had this exact same problem with super lag on the brushes, this is how i sorted it. I belive it is down to a high end CPU in windows XP either of the following fixed it for me

In XP:

A: Turn off Hyper Threading in the BIOS this will make it show on your PC as 4 physical CPUs instead of 8 logical ones

B: Open painter, go to task manager, right click painter program in the process list, click "set affinity" choose it to only use the first 4 cores.

Or:

Install windows 7, that fixed all issues for me and works fine with HyperThreading enabled

This applies to i7 CPU

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