character: Token realistic lady (nudity....)

[hercanic]

Dear Andy:
Nice, but, is she supposed to look like a child? You wrote that she's meant to be in her mid-twenties, but her head to body proportions are that of a child. The proportions of the features on her face in relation to each other are also very childlike, especially the wide, short-length nose and large eyes.

The body looks good, well-proportioned. Her elbow region could use some creasing for realism, her big toes are a bit too 'round', her knees are creased in the wrong areas (makes them look almost detached), and the high pinkiness of them draws too much attention to them. The bellybutton also seems to have some problems, though it may be due to its pinkiness as well.

[Drakaran]

I agree with hercanic and would add a couple comments about the texturing. Bacially it looks like an 11 or 12 year old with breasts. Eyes are a tad too big. Need to lengthen the legs as well....

I like the detail (like the mole, splotchy skin, and "tan" lines), you're thinking in the right direction. I would say the skin appears a little too pink, need to bump the yellow a little (skin isn't actually pink after all). also, skin is too glossy and looks like you applied a procedural when you really have to do a UV for the spec and gloss to look right.

Nice job!

[AndyH]

Thanks for the faluable feedback!
Yeah... my mates have said that she needs to look older - i guess i should've listened to them! thatll teach me to be insolent!
The reason she looks a bit young is because im desperately tring to steer away from the CG stereotypical toned supermodel with a perfectly sculpted face. Im trying to make her look chubbier, rounder and more natural. more 'girly' for lack of a better word.
The knees are really hard to get right - ive been using steven stahlbergs pics as reference - he does the best knees around!
As for the mapping - each body part has seperate col, spec and bump maps - the following unshaded pics prove that its all UV'd as well.
The only procedural used is a subtle turbulence to break up the specular.
Ill have a mess with it this weekend and post any changes i make.

Keep the crits coming!


http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/WIP37e-faceUV.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/WIP37d-handUV.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/WIP37c-allUV.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/WIP37b-jeans-wire.jpg

[elfufu]

i think you can go to jail for that. ;)

[eddyson]

wow I realy like that ! great stuff man :) . pls make an animation of it :D

[AndyH]

OK. Heres an update - ive been tweaking the face on my it - hope it looks better now.
One of the things that inadvertantly contibuted to the younger look was the hair - it had too much volume and made the head look a lot bigger.
Also the redness around the eyes emphasised their large size.
Hopefully, ive fixed that now.

As for the gormless expression - ill close the mouth with a morph once ive finished the modelling.

C'mon folks - 400+ views and only 4 comments? Gimme some feedback - any comments are better than none. If its good or a bit iffy, let me know! Its the only way ill learn.

cheers.


http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/27-face-rework.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/27-face-rework3.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/27-face-rework4.jpg

[Drakaran]

Face is looking better. *thumbs up* I don't blame ya for wanting to do a non-perfect type model, I think most of us are trying for that, really. Looking at your non-light/non-shadow render, if you want to chunk her up a bit, her upper torso is WAY to thin (even for a thin person, no ribs should show, add more width to the hips and some to butt, her tummy also has too much definition, I'd add more roundness there as well and make it thicker there front-to-back. You should also add more thickness to thighs to plump em up. The knees look off, they are too wide and rounded the wrong way. Knees are pretty angular. Feet look great! The slope of breast drops off too fast along the outer side, it should angle smoothly from the bottom curve up to the shoulder where it turns into the pec muscle. The outer curve of the breast is partly created from the pec muscle and the curve should be moved to include the curve of pec as it shows at the side of the body.

This is coming along quite nicely. great work

P.S. Don't freak about the posts. Evidently only certain subjects and modelers get many comments. I've had almost 600 views with only one crit from Joss and it was more really a comment. LOL

[JaKaL]

The updates you made on her face certainly do alot to add to her age, I think this is great work! You have my respect and admiration for work you've put into this!

[AndyH]

Thanks for the comments drakaran - ive tweaked the body - fattened it out a lil bit. Dont wanna make her 'fat' fat, just a bit of puppy fat here and there.
As for the shoulder muscle connecting to the breast, i know what you mean, and i tried to do it correctly, but the only way i can get the geometry to flow properly involves screwing up the UVs that i made a while ago. im just a bit fed up of moving forward and then taking 2 steps back. Just wanna get it finished and put on my showreel.
I dont wanna spend too much time on little bits of detail like the knees and that because they wont be seen when shes clothed. Im going to focus on texturing the clothes this coming week.
Ill hopefully have a more intresting update soon!

cheers.

http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/WIP38a-body-tweak.jpg

[J.K.Makowka]

I still think it looks too much like a child :(
You got some improvement by downsizing the eyes but I think downsizing the entire head a bit would give the best results.
It really is a "head to body" ratio that distinguishes adults from children the most.
Still great work!

[Omnicrola]

Definatly need to play around with the size of her head, it's hard to say just how much smaller it needs to be. :-/ And I'm sure you're to used to the model by now to really tell.

You might try thinning the hair out some more, as you noted, it adds to the size of the head, most noticbly in the side view. I know several women who would kill to have hair with that kind of volume. :p

[honkie]

looks very nice, but i have to agree with the others.... looks too childish ;) As already said, the head needs to be smaller and you should try to decrease the volume of her hair.
and i think the mat is much to shiny

[Genko3D]

I like the feet - v. realistic!

[stykkz]

uschh, looks just like a child...
in a bad way!

[AndyH]

Umm.... ok. Not a good situation to be in!

It seems that everyone still thinks she looks too young - Has anyone got any suggestions on how to solve this?
I cant shrink the head anymore because without the hair, shes got a really tiny head! Maybe its the high forehead that makes it look odd?
As i said in my earlier posts, im not going for the hard-edged, toned look. Maybe i should succumb to the CG stereotype and make her look like every other model! Maybe im not cut out to make anything different......
Only thing i can do really is maybe re-do the hairstyle and make the face a bit more bony.

[J.K.Makowka]

Seriously try making it smaller, it really is still too big.

here is a pic from the Loomis book:
http://www.planetquake.com/shattered/shine/images/ref/loomis/page29.gif

I have also included a quick layer with a loomis reference taken from the side above.

Hope that helps.

[AndyH]

Thanks! - that helps a lot

I guess im just too used to building characters with big heads! My last project was an anime thing (my pic to the left is from it)

Ive been meaning to dig out my reference books and compare the size now everyone is commenting on the head. Youve gave me a head start!

[Omnicrola]

Yea shrinking the forehead could help, either by actually shrinking, or moving the hairline forward.

[AndyH]

oooooo...k.

Heres another update on my slow-moving project!
Made the head (much) smaller, tweaked the face structure a fair bit, added extra wrinkles and refined the eye shapes. also finished the cloth creases for her top.
If anyone following this post approves of the new head size and thinks the age problem is resolved, let me know - ill feel better about crackin on with the rest of it.

Ive tweaked til i can tweak no more!



http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/31-new-head.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/31-new.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/WIP40.jpg

[EdmX]

looks like she was growing up since the first page.....

:]

if u want a older girl...u getting there...i just think the head texture need little more work....
little too shiny and pink around the eyes...unless u want this look

[J.K.Makowka]

Please don't hit me when I say that that head is a little bit too small now :D
The top of the hair on the right side (her left) is wrong also

But she doesn't look to young anymore ,yay!

great work so far

[Shaykai]

Well she is looking older. Now i'd say she is about 17ish. I don't know if that hair texture is final, but if it is, it looks really un-detailed compared to the head. I think the reason why she looks so young is she is kinda 'soft', like drew barrymoore. Also i think her face is a little too red overall. I like it though :) Keep it up.

Shaykai

[Valandar]

One thing that can help her look "all grown up" is slightly increasing the size/strength of her jaw. I don't mean turn her into the wrestler Chynna or anything, but just a little bit can help.

[AndyH]

shaykai - youre exactly right - She is meant to look 'soft' - drew barrymore was'nt the exact reference, but thats what kinda look im going for.

As for the hair, i know, the map is pretty shoddy at the mo - i wanna spend a lot more time on the hair textures (maybe even completeley re-do it using sasquatch spline guides) once im satisfied with the rest of it.
The hair is possibly the most time consuming thing to test. Rendering takes ages and VIPER cant display UV textures on subdivided layers - the pile o' crap!

Makowka - I kinda thought the head was small myself, but it was matched up to an anatomical pic from fineart.sk Ill scale it up and be VERY careful about it!

Thanks for all the comments - hope to have a more drastic update soon enough.

[AndyH]

Hi y'all.

Another update on my model (i aint giving up so easily!)
Ive Dabbled with Global illumination - takes too long just for a test render, so these pics are a bit grainy.
Also relaxed the pose - i think it looks a lot more natural.
The clothes textures are very rough at the moment. Theyre only on there as a base to test the UV's. Gonna get crackin on the textures now ive got a lot more time on my hands.
hopefully the next update should be more or less finished!

Hope y'all like it.

http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/35-Global-illumination.jpg

[Valandar]

Hrms. Nicer, but...

The makeup actually makes her look younger - like a little girl playing dress-up. And the bump is a mite strong on her.

I understand the clothes thing, can't wait to see how she ends up.

[Sharky]

Very well done ... the last update is better with the modification of the head. Waiting for new updates now :)

[Cullen]

This is looking great... although I think the hair doesn't match up to the standards of the rest of the body. Keep up the good work.

[WChestnutt]

looking really great!!! i feel just the hair is letting it down.

Keep it up,

Will

[eddyson]

the face before was looking better : ( but great work anyway

[AndyH]

Alrighty folks.

Im almost done with my gal now. All Textures are final and modelling is complete.
Every time i look at it though, i see new things about the face and hair i dont like - its driving me nuts!
Ive enclosed a coupla renders - Im not sure about using Global illumination - it looks nice but takes ages to render and dulls the specular and bumpmap.
So anyway, this is the vital last minute tweaking phase, so any comments - let rip!

http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/40-GI.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~chunglist2/CGTALK-PICS/40-area.jpg

[J.K.Makowka]

The middel of the bottom of the nose... it look really strange how it connects to the upper lip and the general shape of that area is also a bit of.
Otherwise great work.

[Drakaran]

hmm, textures are final? That's kinda too bad, cause I am seeing map stretching around the mouth and on the cheeks. The hair part is too severe and shouldn't be showing so much skull, and the eyebrows are a bit thin.

Lighting is totally situational. If you are using a traditional rig, you don't need environmental lighting, just bump up the spots with like the Rim at around 180 - 230%

Not a bad model, she's at least 17 or 18 instead of 12 now hehehehehehe

[AndyH]

Hey folks. Ive moved the Thread to finished work now.
Feel free to take a look!

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102383

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