PDA

View Full Version : Bird Wing Rig Help


pedrodeleo
04-25-2011, 03:46 PM
Hello there,

I posted this topic in the area forum, but I guess I can have some good answer here aswell.

I know that there are some topic about wing rig, but they are quite old and I thought is better to create a new one than bringing an old one to discussion again.. Also my doubts are a little different. I attached a picture to describe how the setup is working and also added the Max 2010 file. Iím trying to archieve something similar to the Paul Neale Bella Sara setup (I might be dreaming, but if people help me here I guess I could get close!).

Here is the link for the king setup: http://www.paulneale.com/technical/bellaSara/bellaSara.htm

I used a spline with spline IK and helpers distributed with Path Constraint, each feather has a LookAt constaint to one of these helpers and is linked to one wing bone. I guess the feathers are spreading just fine and the wing is folding OK. I used the bones as upnode for the feather and for the joint feathers, that are placed in the intersection of 2 bones, I created an upnode with orientation constraint to both bones.

My main doubt is how can I setup the Bend and Wave modifier to give a more dynamic feel to the feathers, and if the Flex is added to the main spline. Any chance to get a hand here?

If anyone has something to say about my setup, please say it ! Anything about the size of the feathers, position, any hint, any tips would be great!!

Also if anyone has experience with the bird body rig, please tell me!!

Thanks in advance,
Pedro.

pedrodeleo
05-04-2011, 05:49 PM
I can hear crickets here!

cri cri cri cri..

Nobody has experience in rigging a bird wing?

Luarasi73
09-22-2011, 04:46 PM
I checked your wing rig and it was awesome. For the control with bend and wave modifier you can watch the tutorial http://www.traptcg.com/content/building-bird-type-wing-rig

pedrodeleo
09-23-2011, 05:10 PM
I checked your wing rig and it was awesome. For the control with bend and wave modifier you can watch the tutorial http://www.traptcg.com/content/building-bird-type-wing-rig

Hey Luaresi, thanks for the link!

Actually, I've already watched this one and probably all wing rigs videos around there! This setup is kinda simple, the Paul Neale setup is perfect, and hundred times better than this one!

I also finished my setup, it's not even close to Paul Neale's one, but I got some help from him and the final result is pretty usable.. I had to stop playing with it to make a final version, so it's not really how I wanted to be, but regarding my time and experience I guess the result is OK.. If you wanna see it I can show you how it works!

Henrikenglund
09-25-2011, 12:25 PM
I just wrote a Blogpost about how i made my bird rig.

http://www.skygoblin.com/2011/how-to-setup-a-realistic-3d-bird-wing/

Hope it make sense! :)

Luarasi73
09-25-2011, 02:22 PM
Hi Pedrodeleo, I would be more than glad to see your finished rig. When I posted the link I had in mind one bend and the wave modifier, not the complete rig from traptcg, I have been trying to figure out the spline influence over the feathers, after some time I came up with a rig similar like yours, using path constraints, spline Ik, and look at constraints, although Paul Nelae's rigg, seams perfect clean, intuitive and simple to animate. I thank you in advance.

pedrodeleo
09-26-2011, 05:23 PM
Hey Henrikenglund,

your rig seems pretty cool! The wings are folding perfectly, but I don't know if I got everything correct.. You just linked every group of feathers to it's respective bone and used a orientation constraint (this is the name of this type of controller in 3ds max I guess) between what? It's kinda confusing, but the final result is amazing!

I like the Paul Neales solution for dyamics, it's pretty easy, fast and clean.. Paul is the king!

My wing is not exactly like his setup, but the dynamic part is pretty close! I don't consider my wing an amazing setup, but I can make a video explaining some aspects...

Boucha
10-01-2011, 05:32 AM
Some useful links :

http://nakyoung.blogspot.com/2011/06/bird-rigging-feather-script-maya-mel.html
http://www.yukfoo.net/webcontent/PaseoDoves/makingOf.html

pedrodeleo
10-03-2011, 04:16 PM
Good links!

I had already seen the one about the Maya Script.. Seems pretty nice! Unfortunatelly I only work with Max, and I guess there's is nothing similar to use...

PEN
10-14-2011, 02:18 AM
Hey, I should watch that tutorial and find out how I did it;)

I haven't been around the rigging forum here for a while so I missed this thread but my ears were burning so I dropped in.

I'm glad it all worked out for you.

Luarasi73
10-21-2011, 01:35 PM
Mr. Paul. I hope you can show us in more detail the bird wing rigging, as far as it goes to double spline on your wing rig, how does the spline effect feather behavior and also the node controllers who seem to have a control over feathers without messing them up even when the wing is folded. And also how to mirror the wing without messing up the rig.

pedrodeleo
10-21-2011, 03:28 PM
Hey Paul! You helped me out on the Autodesk forum, that's why I was able to do something usable.. Thanks again for that!

I'd really like to see more details of this wing rig also.. It would be awesome!

Luarasi73, I guess I can explain a bit of the system. Here is the Area topic I used to get some help when I was building the rig: http://community.softimage.com/forum/autodesk-3ds-max/rigging/bird-wing-rig/

Basically, the feathers are bending according to the difference between the 2 splines (one with flex modifier and the other one whithout it). I used an exposeTM (Paul uses just scripts, that are lighter) to compare the values between both splines (one expose TM for each point). The result is applied to the angle of the bend modifier. The feathers are linked to each bone and have an IK with the helper linked to a path constrained point. Check out the Area post and you will discover some hints! Not everything is explained and my rig is a century far from Pauls setup, but you will get some ideas there..

Luarasi73
10-21-2011, 06:37 PM
Thanks Pedro, I checked the link and was resourceful. But still nothing better than complete tutorial. Lets hope Paul provides us with one.

PEN
01-14-2012, 03:24 PM
I know this is an old thread but how about a Master Class on this subject?

joshpurple
01-15-2012, 06:58 AM
I know this is an old thread but how about a Master Class on this subject?

Where do I sign-up? :D I'm in!

shalabology
01-15-2012, 11:08 AM
hey ,there
of course pen set up of wing is awesome but i still do have a qs: does it avoid the issue
of inter-feathers intersections?

PEN
01-15-2012, 02:30 PM
Well that is one! Always good to have you in the Master Classes.

PEN
01-15-2012, 02:34 PM
hey ,there
of course pen set up of wing is awesome but i still do have a qs: does it avoid the issue
of inter-feathers intersections?

No it doesn't. That would get really slow if you have to calculate all that. Running sims on the feathers would be on way to do it but hie long would that take and would you notice the difference in the average shot? For an extreem close up it might just be better to do a manual clean up pass on the feathers that are causing the problems.

shalabology
01-16-2012, 12:49 PM
o you may check my system results here , more tests for folding and else will be uploaded
http://vimeo.com/35135266
thank you pen , but iguess-as you said- it would be such hard to do sims on these ,how can we do that do you think?

PEN
01-16-2012, 03:16 PM
I only looked at it on my phone but it looked to bendy over all. Wings have joints that need to stay rigid between them.

CGTalk Moderation
01-16-2012, 03:16 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.