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PaulHellard
04-15-2011, 05:40 AM
Hey there,

Crytek's Principal R&D Engineer Tiago Sousa shows CGSociety around CryENGINE 3 the Crysis 2 game engine. We run thru each major feature, accompanying the best explanation from the guy in charge.

Click the image for the article. Come back to comment.

http://features.cgsociety.org//images/plugs/feature/plug_cryengine3_.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/story.php?story_id=6190)

Thrasher
04-15-2011, 06:48 AM
Enjoyed the article on the engine very much. Very happy to see lighting moving to being fully dynamic :). Two pages just doesn't seem enough for a very impressive engine with new tech, including volumetric particles. :drool:

DDS
04-15-2011, 07:45 AM
Nice! This all runs at 60fps 1080p but using CryEngine to pre-render it at 4 times the scale, with pimped up lighting, FX, textures etc. ( and at lower framerates) you can get quite pretty damn close to average CG quality, at minimal render times.

It'd be great to get some inside view to other engines as well.

Anchang-Style
04-15-2011, 08:39 AM
I just hope they can improve stability for projects on the engine. Talked to a guy who worked with CE3 in University and he said, that they had to settle over to UE3 because the Project kept on crashing and stuff. He also added, that CE3 feels sort of castrated from CE2 in some aspects. Still i just prefer the general look of CE to UE.

farazmobin
04-15-2011, 12:10 PM
cryengine 3 is loced out!!

MAK
04-15-2011, 12:29 PM
cryengine 3 is loced out!!

WC on CGTalk? :applause:

slueb
04-15-2011, 12:45 PM
Lots more info here:

http://crytek.com/assets/Crysis-2-Key-Rendering-Features.pdf

Looks like most of the article was straight from that doc.

What are we supposed to get out of the video? The compression is horrible.

berniebernie
04-15-2011, 12:52 PM
It's a very beautiful engine, between this and the new Battlefield I kind of wonder why rendering complex scenes is such a headache in our softwares.

On a slight note I find it weird that Crytek pretends to have 'invented' screen-space ambient occlusion when it was clearly simply the first (one of the first?) game to implement it.

ha-dou-ken
04-15-2011, 01:37 PM
It's a very beautiful engine, between this and the new Battlefield I kind of wonder why rendering complex scenes is such a headache in our softwares.
implement it.


I wonder about this a lot too. Especially when I see UE and CE then look back at my mental ray rending...65%...65.6%...

Nintendians
04-15-2011, 02:07 PM
a lot details. got to play the demo on the XBox 360, but the PC demo version i couldn't get into a game at all. anyway, the cryengine 3 does improve a lot of stuff from the cryengine 2.

Kabab
04-15-2011, 02:18 PM
I wonder about this a lot too. Especially when I see UE and CE then look back at my mental ray rending...65%...65.6%...
One is raytracing one is a pure rasterizer written for specific hardware :bounce:

TheDistiller
04-15-2011, 03:16 PM
Hope they'll release their free SDK soon.

ha-dou-ken
04-15-2011, 03:24 PM
I've been playing Crysis 2 for PC and it's pretty fun. Well, for the half hour I played. Nice physics in there. Pacing of the story is pretty nice too. There's a nice rhythm to the ebb and flow of plot points which keeps the action fun....but I don't like shooting games since Quake 3 :cool:

zhanshu
04-15-2011, 11:31 PM
Cool~ amazing game and amazing engine!

SheepFactory
04-16-2011, 12:11 AM
Hope they'll release their free SDK soon.

Yea they are taking their sweet time with it. :\

Ballo
04-16-2011, 10:29 AM
Pretty delicious engine, I hope to see a medieval game with this engine. I quite tired of aliens and megasoldiers. :)

ambient-whisper
04-16-2011, 03:24 PM
It's a very beautiful engine, between this and the new Battlefield I kind of wonder why rendering complex scenes is such a headache in our softwares.

On a slight note I find it weird that Crytek pretends to have 'invented' screen-space ambient occlusion when it was clearly simply the first (one of the first?) game to implement it.

Because if you only knew how much more complex it is to set stuff up in these engines....
Creating a shader for example in a game engine is so much more involved than in a regular 3d app.

In Maya you just press the reflect button and you are almost done..

In UE3 for example.. you have a few options, one of which is to use a reflect actor, pipe that info into a texture node, then you use that texture node in your shader, pipe in a screen position node, take out the Blue channel out of it, and finally add that to your overall diffuse.


So.. what I am saying is that even though it appears real time, and easy, there is a lot of work involved to get certain effects. figuring out good normal map settings is also a bit of a painful procedure, as is the lack of procedurals which you can use in your shaders. You either have to go through great lengths to reproduce procedural noise with huge networks, or you end up creating your own library of maps.

Laa-Yosh
04-16-2011, 05:07 PM
These engines also make some serious compromises in quality. Antialiasing sucks, you can only do stuff like render at 4x-16x the resolution and even that won't always help; they can only use shadow maps and you can't really manually adjust them (and even then, it'd pale compared to proper raytraced area shadows), they usually fail to scale well to the level of content that movies and even CG cinematics require because everything has to fit into memory during runtime, there's no 3D motion blur, they lack support for a lot of small things you take for granted in other renderers, and so on and so on.

The gap is small but it's there - and if there's a universal lesson in CG, it's that getting through the final 10-20% gets exponentially more and more difficult.

With all that said, both C2 and BF3 are pretty damn amazing looking, although I prefer the later because of the amazing implementation of HDR rendering.

SheepFactory
04-16-2011, 06:27 PM
Pretty delicious engine, I hope to see a medieval game with this engine. I quite tired of aliens and megasoldiers. :)

You should take a look at witcher 2.

sebastian___
04-16-2011, 09:27 PM
As I said before, most of those limits can be eliminated. Of course they are not real-time, but still much faster than a dedicated renderer.

Comparison 3d motion blur on off
gif anim
http://download.vam-online.com/3d_mblur_on_off.gif

longer mp4 movie http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6955/y33.mp4

Adjustable Area Shadows (viewport low-res picture). Correct overlapping shadows - something not possible with actual algorithms like Nvidia PCSS. Many more options are possible, but I don't wanna flood the forum with pictures :)
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4956/07newalgareashadow.jpg

sonn
04-17-2011, 06:55 AM
Is it going to be free? I really hope so.

mitrt
04-18-2011, 12:53 AM
Hey there,

Crytek's Principal R&D Engineer Tiago Sousa shows CGSociety around CryENGINE 3 the Crysis 2 game engine. We run thru each major feature, accompanying the best explanation from the guy in charge.

Click the image for the article. Come back to comment.



http://features.cgsociety.org//images/plugs/feature/plug_cryengine3_.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/story.php?story_id=6190)





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SciFibrow
04-18-2011, 05:40 AM
Informative and oh so pretty...

:)

michibe
04-18-2011, 09:38 AM
I have a good bunch of clients which would pay for a project made with CE3. The workflow is unmatched of this engine and I get a lot more stuff done in a shorter time which is essential if you are no hobbyist with lots of time after school.

gandan
04-19-2011, 02:30 AM
Good write up. Unity and Unreal Engine is being push onto the iphone platform (where the fast money is). Was wondering if cryengine will ever be. From what I gathered cryengine seems heavy even on an uberly rigged system.

IvanTheTerrible
04-19-2011, 11:04 PM
It is not clear for me what can be done in real time with this render engine and what is precomputed, can anybody explain it?

DanielleEber
04-21-2011, 05:25 PM
Hope they'll release their free SDK soon.

CEO and founder Cevat Yerli posted a letter on the CryMod site with info about the SDK release: http://www.crymod.com/ Relevant excerpts include:

In August 2011 we will be launching a free CryENGINE SDK. If you want to use it for fun, like all our previous MOD SDKs it will be completely free of charge, to anyone who wants to play with it! You just register, download the SDK with a personalized license key and you're good to go!

If you want to use it to make a game to launch commercially, we'd like to help you with that. If you want to take your product down a traditional commercial route, we will offer an innovative low cost licensing model if you want to release your game digitally.

DanielleEber
04-21-2011, 05:45 PM
It is not clear for me what can be done in real time with this render engine and what is precomputed, can anybody explain it?

I have been building for the "Blue Mars" virtual world for the last 18 months, and that runs on CryEngine2. I have only just started using a beta version of the CE3, but as far as I can tell it works the same way.

For a game or virtual environment it takes the texture maps and 3D models you have given it, and processes it according to the shader and other settings you have chosen in "real time". The frame rate depends on the complexity of the scene, size of the window, how much eye candy is turned on, and the speed of the graphics card. I have been in areas on Blue Mars with 10-20 million triangles in the scene, and the engine still runs, just really slow frame rate.

For making video, you can direct the output to a file instead of your monitor, and use very high settings and large image dimensions. Frames will be generated slowly in that case, and then you can play it back at 30 fps or whatever afterwards.

A few things are pre-computed, like terrain ambient occlusion from trees and buildings. That can take an hour to process and gets baked into the output terrain texture. Reflection environment cube maps can be captured and then applied as a texture map. Pretty much everything else is rendered real time per frame.

IvanTheTerrible
04-22-2011, 01:15 AM
thanks for you explanation DanielleEber, It sounds interesting, not all real time as I suspected but not bad, why Crytec is not spcecifying all of the new cryengine features in his site?, I cant understand, at fist you can think everything showed in the videos is real time and this is clearly misleading.

kiko
04-25-2011, 10:56 PM
That's all very nifty, but where are the Maya and Max plugins?

DanielleEber
04-26-2011, 02:05 AM
That's all very nifty, but where are the Maya and Max plugins?

In the SDK beta version the 3dsMax version 8 through 12 export plugins, and Maya 2009 to 2011 export plugins are included in the \Tools folder, along with a lot of other tools: FMOD for audio, Scaleform GFxExport for Flash UI items, Photobump for making normal maps from photographs, Polybump for making normal maps from high poly models to use on low poly versions, and more I don't know about yet.

The documentation is not finished in this beta, so I don't know how to install or use that stuff, and in any case I am using CryEngine 2 in production right now, so don't want to mess up my current version of 3ds Max 2010. I am waiting for the final SDK to be released with instructions before I try and change over (and update to Max 2012 at the same time)

In the mean time I am playing with the beta on the side to see what's new or changed. As far as level design, not much. I was able to set up a level almost immediately. This is a simple island I set up with two terrain textures (sand and clover) and a few procedural vegetation items. It scatters or paints them according to the settings you give for each type of plant, which is a quick way to fill up a terrain. Then you can go back and hand place or adjust specific ones.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_N3W3ksl-Xiw/TapoP3mOhSI/AAAAAAAACfM/MWKda2NCoIs/s1600/TerrainExample.JPG

DanielleEber
04-26-2011, 01:24 PM
thanks for you explanation DanielleEber, It sounds interesting, not all real time as I suspected but not bad, why Crytec is not spcecifying all of the new cryengine features in his site?, I cant understand, at fist you can think everything showed in the videos is real time and this is clearly misleading.

Features are described on the MyCryengine (http://mycryengine.com/index.php?conid=53) website.

Calculating terrain sky occlusion simply takes a very long time, which is why it is an exception to the general live reactions in the editor. You have to take every point on the map, look at the surrounding trees, buildings, etc, and determine how much sky is blocked, and bake a shading factor into the terrain surface texture. This is separate from direct sun and lights illumination and shadows, it is looking at the diffuse skylight contribution. So this is not done continuously. It is done on command when you generate the output terrain texture, and takes minutes to an hour to run depending on map size. Then that part of the lighting does not have to be done at all when running the scene, either in the editor or game.

BaronFlame
04-27-2011, 06:08 AM
Impressive. I may not be familiar with many of the technical terms used in the article but having played all the Crysis games I can easily see the improvements. The difference is obvious.
Awesome article!! :applause:

seith
04-28-2011, 07:13 AM
That's all very nifty, but where are the Maya and Max plugins?

MayaCGF already allows you to export Maya models and animations to the CryEngine. It will eventually support the CryEngine3 when the SDK's released (it already supports the CryEngine2).

http://seithcg.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/wppa/18.jpg


Information can be found here (http://seithcg.com/wordpress/?page_id=316) and here (http://seithcg.com/wordpress/?page_id=459). MayaCGF itself can be downloaded here (http://seithcg.com/wordpress/?page_id=56).

http://seithcg.com/wordpress/?page_id=785&album=4&photo=18

Gooner442
05-06-2011, 02:48 PM
The documentation is not finished in this beta, so I don't know how to install or use that stuff, and in any case I am using CryEngine 2 in production right now, so don't want to mess up my current version of 3ds Max 2010. I am waiting for the final SDK to be released with instructions before I try and change over (and update to Max 2012 at the same time)


hi, can you tell me what I need to use 3ds Max 2010 with Cryengine 2?.. I understood that only Max 2008 or 2009 could be used, with 2010 I thought I needed ColladaCGF to export meshes http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawik...itle=Main_Page

DanielleEber
05-06-2011, 05:06 PM
hi, can you tell me what I need to use 3ds Max 2010 with Cryengine 2?.. I understood that only Max 2008 or 2009 could be used, with 2010 I thought I needed ColladaCGF to export meshes http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawik...itle=Main_Page

Normally the CryMod (http://www.crymod.com/) site has the Crysis Wars SDK for download, which includes the Sandbox 2 editor and plugins for Max, Maya, and Photoshop. Crysis Wars was the last game built on the CryEngine 2, so had the latest version of the engine and editor. They are in the middle of updating the website for the new Crysis 2/CryEngine 3 mods, so the files are not available right now. The files you want are CryExport12.dlu or CryExport12_64.dlu, depending on if you use 32 or 64 bit 3dsMax. (12= Max version number for 2010). The copies I have were made for the Blue Mars world, which uses a slightly different .cgf format. This was on purpose because Crytek didn't want their game assets migrating to other places.

Big Download (http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/04/29/download-crysis-wars-v1-5-patch-and-mod-sdk-package/) is an alternate site to download the SDK. It only includes the plugins up to 2009, because the SDK was released before Max 2010 was. As far as I can tell, your choices are to (1) use older version of Max for which a plugin was released, or (2) Use the Blue Mars version of CryEngine 2 which includes 2010 plugin. They have added and removed things from the original CryTek version, so it depends what you want to make with it if it's suitable.

Gooner442
05-06-2011, 07:42 PM
If I could find the CryExport12.dlu or CryExport12_64.dlu files what do you have to do with them?.. is it only a case of copying them over the files within my cryengine folder?

Gooner442
05-06-2011, 10:42 PM
...and thanks for the links and info! :beer:

I think it's easiest for me to just go back to Max 2009 until cryengine 3 is out, I just want to get using it.

DanielleEber
05-07-2011, 12:05 PM
If I could find the CryExport12.dlu or CryExport12_64.dlu files what do you have to do with them?.. is it only a case of copying them over the files within my cryengine folder?

They are plugins for Max, so you place it in the \Autodesk\3ds Max 2010\plugins folder. When you export to the Crytek Geometry File (.cgf), the plugin calls the CryTek "Resource Compiler", which is the file converter they include in their SDK. The file is called rc.exe. So you open the plugin in the Max Command Panel > Utilities> More, and point to wherever you have the file installed in the SDK. The .max file you are converting has to be saved in the SDK directory under \Game\Objects. That's because the CryEngine in general cannot find anything outside it's own root directory. Then when you use the Export Nodes button, it will save the .cgf in the same folder as the .max was.

The CryEngine 2 manuals (http://doc.crymod.com/) are online at the CryMod site, and their forums and wiki are very helpful for learning how to use it. The Blue Mars Wiki (http://create.bluemars.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) also has some information. I wrote most of the "Material Editor" pages there. That is the window where you set up the shader settings. Knowing how to use that well is half the power of the engine.

Gooner442
05-07-2011, 04:14 PM
I have Crysis and not Crysis Wars, am I right in thinking that the SDK plugin is different for both?.. can I only use Max 2008 for the Crysis version of Cryengine 2, do I need Crysis Wars or Blue Mars to use Max 2009?...

I think I can understand why everyone uses UDK!!... :banghead: seems finding information is pretty difficult!... and the crymod website being down just seems extremely unprofessional.

Appreciate that you're given me some answers though!

DanielleEber
05-07-2011, 10:34 PM
I have Crysis and not Crysis Wars, am I right in thinking that the SDK plugin is different for both?.. can I only use Max 2008 for the Crysis version of Cryengine 2, do I need Crysis Wars or Blue Mars to use Max 2009?...

I think I can understand why everyone uses UDK!!... :banghead: seems finding information is pretty difficult!... and the crymod website being down just seems extremely unprofessional.

*laughs at headsmashing icon* The SDKs are different. Crysis Wars is the newer version. Blue Mars started with the Crysis Wars SDK, and then modified it for their purposes. The versions of the graphics engine, sandbox editor, and Max exporter have to all match up for the files to work. If you are hot to play with something tonight, you can get the Blue Mars (http://create.bluemars.com/wiki/index.php/Tool_Download) developer toolkit and Max plugins. Otherwise you need to get a copy of Crysis Wars, and wait till CryMod puts their downloads page back in operation.

DanielleEber
06-28-2011, 01:08 AM
In addition to releasing the DX11 and higher quality texture pack today, this Crytek News Release (http://www.crytek.com/news/crysis-2-ultra-upgrade-with-the-directx-11-available-today-for-pc) also identifies this coming Wednesday as the release date for the "Sandbox 3 Editor", and most likely the rest of the tools to import items. The C++ source code for the engine is still scheduled for release in August. I'm looking forward to using the final version.

Gooner442
06-29-2011, 09:33 PM
hey thanks for letting us know, I downloaded it but it tells me I need a copy of Crysis 2, sorry to ask a dumb question but do I really need it?... I thought the whole idea was that this editor was free... or am I missing the point, that the editor must come with the game.. :banghead: ,,,more banging my head :scream:

ashrafazlan
06-29-2011, 09:41 PM
What was released was just the editor, the full blown SDK is still far away

DanielleEber
06-30-2011, 12:58 AM
hey thanks for letting us know, I downloaded it but it tells me I need a copy of Crysis 2, sorry to ask a dumb question but do I really need it?... I thought the whole idea was that this editor was free... or am I missing the point, that the editor must come with the game.. :banghead: ,,,more banging my head :scream:

The Cryengine 3 graphics engine is required for the Sandbox 3 Editor.exe to run - the perspective view is generated exactly the same as in the game when it's running. For now the way you get a copy of the engine is with the Crysis 2 game. I assume when the standalone SDK is delivered in August, they will have the engine by itself, without a game .exe and 7 GB of game levels attached.

@ashrafazlan - Its the Editor + plugins for 3ds Max and Maya to export items from those programs to the CryEngine format + Polybump application to generate normal maps from high poly models to use on low poly models + assorted MaxScript tools.

Documentation for the SDK can be found here: Crysis 2 Mod SDK Docs (http://sdk.crymod.com/dashboard.action)

Gooner442
06-30-2011, 09:24 AM
So I can create models/levels etc and import and take advantage of all the power of the cryengine?... what extra does the release in August give?...... if it does all that then I'll be buying Crysis 2 straight away.

I'm a bit surprised there isn't more of a response to this, it's very cool that we can now use this editor.

I'm not usually so confused in life, it seems the cryengine brings it out in me.. :shrug:

DanielleEber
06-30-2011, 03:37 PM
The "CryEngine" is a set of dynamic link library files (.dll) like most software uses. They take care of AI, animation, game "entities" (scripted objects), networking with the server, physics, Direct3D 9 and 11 rendering, and sound. They "Crysis2.exe" is the game executable ie what you start. That has the unique software to track your progress in the game. It uses the various CryEngine .dll files to run - in software terms it calls the functions contained in the .dll files.

The Sandbox 3 "Editor.exe" is another executable program located in the same folder (once installed), that uses the same CryEngine .dll files. While a game executable merely loads and runs levels located in the \Levels directory, the Sandbox additionally has the software to create and edit levels. In edit mode it works like many other 3D programs, allowing you to place objects in the scene, edit material settings, etc. In game mode it drops a character into the level you are working on and lets you run around and interact. You can switch between modes at any time by typing control-G/ESC. Since the Sandbox is running the same underlying CryEngine software as the game will, you know that it will function identically.

A "level" consists of three files at a minimum. The ".cry" file stores the location of every object and it's settings, and what shaders are being used. The "level.pak" stores the terrain height data, and the "terraintexture.pak" stores the generated surface texture data. The level can additionally include some number of "layers" to organize visibility and selection of objects while you are working on things.

Object geometry, textures, scripts, sounds, animations, etc are stored in other folders and pointed to for use. So the process of "building a level" starts with creating your models and textures in 3ds Max and Photoshop, or whatever. You export them to the needed CryEngine format with the provided plugins, and place them in folders in the game directory. Using the Sandbox, you load and position the objects on the terrain map, and adjust the material settings. Additionally you do global stuff in the Sandbox like day cycle/environment settings, terrain map editing, and programming interactive/animated objects with scripts and flowgraphs.

The Sandbox editor is the same program CryTek uses in-house to build their games, so it has all the tools to do that job. The SDK released yesterday lets you make new levels from scratch, but they will only run on the Crysis 2 executable and existing engine .dll's, and it's for non-commercial use. The August release will additionally provide source code, so you can write new games, or add new shaders or functions to the core Engine. It will also have a commercial license similar to the Unreal one, where you can make money using the engine, and CryTek gets a percentage. It will likely have additional tools and plugins that were not part of the game mod SDK.

Gooner442
06-30-2011, 08:18 PM
wo!.. :thumbsup: thank you for spending the time writing this, I hope I'm not the only one who finds it useful... I read up on a few things on the crymod website but this really clears up what's what, now the tricky part, using it!.... though I understand it's more user friendly than UDK, on the flip-side there will not be so many tutorials around to learn from... should be fun, an excuse to buy Crysis 2 as well.. and then probably a new graphics card!

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