best email software for CG ?

[Emmortal1]

You are going to have a hard time finding a better solution than Outlook for your needs listed. I run McAfee virus protection and it fully integrates with Outlook, scanning all e-mails before they hit my inbox. With any client, you are still going to be vulnerable to virus, just that there are a lot of virus' that are written to attack outlook because it's the most widely used.

Also, your e-mail client has nothing to do with how much spam you receive. That's based soley on who has your e-mail address on their spam lists. Sorry I could not be of more help, good luck and let us know what you decide to go with.

Emmortal

[keops]

hi,
i suggest you to give a try to Mozilla Thunderbird 0.3
link (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/thunderbird/releases/0.3/thunderbird-0.3-win32.zip)

and http://www.mozilla.org/ fo more info.
ps: give Mozilla Firebird 0.7 a try too, you might never use IE again ;)

[elvis]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
You are going to have a hard time finding a better solution than Outlook for your needs listed.

you are kidding, right? outlook is a pox on humanity and should be destroyed for it's contributions to ever-falling security levels everywhere.

Pegasus Mail
http://www.pmail.com/

Eudora
http://www.eudora.com/

Mozilla Thunderbird
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/thunderbird/

And of course the full-blown Mozilla 1.5
http://www.mozilla.org/

Are all far superior email clients. Some are free, others are purchaseable. They all include great features, some including excellent spam-blocking algorithms.

And while we're on the topic of removing Microsoft software from your system, grab a copy of Open Office:
http://www.openoffice.org/

and kiss Microsoft Office (and it's assicoated security risks and macro viruses) goodbye.

There is a world after Microsoft, folks. enjoy it, embrace it, and while doing so, pay less money!

[EDIT] and by the way, mass-mailer viruses are targeted at outlook users (and more specifically, the outlook contacts list). mcafee and other anti-virus solutions work in exactly the same way as they do with outlook with any of the above email packages (full integration and scanning of emails before they hit the inbox).

for the technically minded, mcafee and norton use a dummy smtp/pop system which sits infront of your email client, effectively scanning emails before yoru client ever sees them on recieve, and before they leave your system on send. the email client you use has no effect on this process!

[elam]

I've been using Mozilla's mail client for a couple of years now.

It's simple and effective, and it's get better with every release.
It has a junk mail feature that you 'train' by marking junk mail that makes it into your mailbox, but I don't really know how effective it is, cause I get about 5 junk mails a day. Comcast filters suck too tho.


It supports multiple profiles, newsgroups and custom filters, but I don't think it supports syncing(does outlook?). Maybe through a plug in.

And while your at it, try the browser side of Mozilla, be it Thunderbird or regular Mozilla. I started using the mail client and got hooked on the browser. It's clean and slick and has a lot of interesting plug-ins.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
You are going to have a hard time finding a better solution than Outlook for your needs listed.


PPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTT....

(soda spraying my monitor and keyboard)

Outlook sucks. If you continue using outlook, you need to have your head examined. Most of the virii and attacks out there specifically exploit outlook.

I use Mozilla, have been for about 2 years. I am currently checking out their newest compact version called Thunderbird.

Very secure, great filtering.

Outlook..LOL. Who says people here aren't funny.

[milkyman]

*sigh* only windows left. can we remove this too?

i love how windows practically explodes when you remove ie explorer. ie re-installing an blocking you from updates.

i'd settle for removing the m$ logo and the registry.

regards

[MadMax]

I use Windows2000 when I have to use windows. XP only because AvidPro requires XP.

No windows machines are connected to the internet. I use Linux for internet or external connections.

No Virii, no hacks, no hassles......

[Emmortal1]

I have never been hacked, and haven't had a virus in over 5 years. Have used MS products since DOS 5.0. Don't really get it how people get hacked so easily and get virii.

Emmortal

[gustojunk]

Thaks for all the replies!

I'm going to give Mozilla a try first and if that's not good (which I doubt) I'll try Eudora. It looks pretty good and it seems it can do everything I need, except for synching two machines, but I'll dig deeper to see if there's a way.

I think there's a devide of people who would use any product MS releases and people who choose to avoid them at all cost. I have nothing against MS world domination, I simply choose to not use their products that pose a thread to my secutity, or are going to unnecesarilly take my system's resources. Outlook is a no-no for me after seeing disasters happened to other people, although it's also true that if you keep up with updates and such you should be better off. But most serious updates are patches created after the fact of new secutiry flaws being hacked! Also If I ever mentioned the word 'Outlook' I'd be escorted to the door by security in some of the places I work.

Elvis, as far as MS office products I choose also not to use them. They are bloat, down to silly things like the paper clip and that hidden flight simulator (I'm sure that's gone by now). I have a Powerpoint viewer and I open Word files in wordpad. I actually type my invoices in Indesign and my pitch letters to new clients in Illustrator, you can't beat their formatting tools and they work great with my letterhead and stuff. However I've been thinking about the free and lean option of OpenOffice, do you have any experience with that? do you or your company use it? I'd love to hear how it's working out? Stable? compatible with true MSoffice documents?

[Emmortal1]

If you are worried about bugs causing security leaks in your system, then you should uninstall all of your software and never plug your computer into a network or the internet ever again. The reason MS has as many flaws as it does, which by the way every software does have flaws/bugs/security holes, is that a lot of hackers target MS for the undying hate agains the company. The problem is what they don't realize is by discovering all of these security leaks and flaws in MS products, they are forcing MS to patch their software thus creating a much more secure and robust system.

What's funny is that no one ever complains about the HUGE security leaks/bugs in Netscape, some of which can cause a user to take over your entire system at will, but MS gets all the heat for each security bug that comes up. Kind of ironic IMO.

Good luck with the Mozzilla client, let us know how you like it. If it's good, I'll definitely check it out, I love checking out new software.

Emmortal

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
I have never been hacked, and haven't had a virus in over 5 years. Have used MS products since DOS 5.0. Don't really get it how people get hacked so easily and get virii.


and yet thousands upon thousands do.....

go figure. They must all be morons right?

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
If you are worried about bugs causing security leaks in your system, then you should uninstall all of your software and never plug your computer into a network or the internet ever again. The reason MS has as many flaws as it does, which by the way every software does have flaws/bugs/security holes, is that a lot of hackers target MS for the undying hate agains the company.

M$ has flaws because hackers target them? ROTFLMAO!!!!

Ever do a search and see just how many hundreds upon hundereds of different security patches M$ has for all their software?

And these guys want to control the standard for a trusted computing platform? LOL. No thanks.


What's funny is that no one ever complains about the HUGE security leaks/bugs in Netscape, some of which can cause a user to take over your entire system at will, but MS gets all the heat for each security bug that comes up. Kind of ironic IMO.

Kind of ironic that you are making that claim without having any clue of the facts.

First, Mozilla/Netscape has very active bug reporting and complaints. The security issues however are far less than those reported with M$ products. In fact, Mozilla/Netscape encourages bug reporting and security issues to be reported by end users so they can be dealt with in the programs code, not by way of patch after infinite patch.

And it is funny that you are making a claim about a security hole in Netscape that could allow a hacker to take over your system, and then ignore the fact that the same complaint has been reported about M$ products on more than one occasion with different security holes in the same program.

And even outside the security issues, IE and Outlook are aging and antiquated, lacking the functionality of modern browsers.

IE lacks security, lacks pop up protection, lacks decent junk filtering, lacks tabbed browsing and on and on.

Also IE is far less comatible with W3C standards than Mozilla is. I have found quite a few websites that IE couldn't display properly, that come up fine in Mozilla. There was a website I saw awhile bakc that had a compatibility breakdown on it that was quite interesting.

[Emmortal1]

"and yet thousands upon thousands do.....

go figure. They must all be morons right?"

Yes actually they are morons. I was a systems and network admin for the past 6 years before changing my career to CG. If you've ever worked in the IT industry, which you obviously haven't, you would know that 99% of users out there are complete idiots and know next to nothing when it comes to computers. So next time think before you speak and remember not everyone is computer savvy like the majority of people that post here, thanks.

"M$ has flaws because hackers target them? ROTFLMAO!!!!"

What was so difficult to understand there? Happy to be uninformed eh? I didn't say hackers just target them, I said they target them more often than they do other programs which is true.

"Ever do a search and see just how many hundreds upon hundereds of different security patches M$ has for all their software?"

I'm fully aware of just how many security patches MS has. What's your point? When you are the largest software company in the world, your software is going to have bugs. I never stated that I support their method of mass producing software, and patching it after the fact. Guess you misunderstood my point.


"Kind of ironic that you are making that claim without having any clue of the facts.

First, Mozilla/Netscape has very active bug reporting and complaints. The security issues however are far less than those reported with M$ products. In fact, Mozilla/Netscape encourages bug reporting and security issues to be reported by end users so they can be dealt with in the programs code, not by way of patch after infinite patch."

And MS doesn't have active bug reporting? Christ you must be a complete idiot. I think they probably have more of an active bug reporting system than any other company, that's mainly because they have more bugs in their software, but again read above.

"And it is funny that you are making a claim about a security hole in Netscape that could allow a hacker to take over your system, and then ignore the fact that the same complaint has been reported about M$ products on more than one occasion with different security holes in the same program."

Ignore? Not hardly, there have been as you stated multiple problems with security flaws such as the one mentioned above with MS products just as there have been multiple ones with Mozilla/Netscape. They just don't get as much press as the MS ones do, which was my point. One which you obviously missed, although it was quite difficult to since it was as obvious as the Titanic in your front yard.

"And even outside the security issues, IE and Outlook are aging and antiquated, lacking the functionality of modern browsers."

Lacking functionality, antiquated, modern browsers? LOL What planet do you live on? I know you have some disdain for MS products, obviously, but at least back up your opinion with some facts, that was just horrid.

"IE lacks security, lacks pop up protection, lacks decent junk filtering, lacks tabbed browsing and on and on."

Pop-up protection is relative and more of a "iceing" feature as the tabbed browsing issue is as well. Decent junk filtering, I don't have a problem with junk mail, my Outlook Rules filters out 99% of junk mail thanks.

"Also IE is far less comatible with W3C standards than Mozilla is. I have found quite a few websites that IE couldn't display properly, that come up fine in Mozilla. There was a website I saw awhile bakc that had a compatibility breakdown on it that was quite interesting."

That could be true, I have yet to had a problem with any website displaying properly anywhere, I spend about 4-5 hours a day surfing the net. But not saying it's not true, just haven't experienced that for myself personally.

Emmortal

[klingspor]

Why is it that people always blame Outlook? I've been using it for years and have yet to catch any virus from it. All it takes is a little common sense: Don't open attachments from strangers, don't open dubious attachments from known senders either... sounds reasonable enough to me.
Nobody takes candy from strangers either, so why should opening attachments promising "A great new screensaver" or "dancing baby" be any different...?


So here's another recommendation for Outlook from me...

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
"and yet thousands upon thousands do.....

go figure. They must all be morons right?"

Yes actually they are morons. I was a systems and network admin for the past 6 years before changing my career to CG.
If you've ever worked in the IT industry, which you obviously haven't, you would know that 99% of users out there are complete idiots and know next to nothing when it comes to computers. So next time think before you speak and remember not everyone is computer savvy like the majority of people that post here, thanks.

You probably shouldn't be so quick to throw out lame assumptions about people, you are not very good at it.

I started IT before 3D. Worked for TRW, you probably heard of them, they track your credit history.


"M$ has flaws because hackers target them? ROTFLMAO!!!!"

What was so difficult to understand there? Happy to be uninformed eh? I didn't say hackers just target them, I said they target them more often than they do other programs which is true.

There was nothing diufficult to understand at all. Your assertion that M$ has flaws only because hackers target them is one of the most ignorant responses I have seen here in some time.


Guess you misunderstood my point.

Not at all.



"Kind of ironic that you are making that claim without having any clue of the facts.

First, Mozilla/Netscape has very active bug reporting and complaints.

And MS doesn't have active bug reporting? Christ you must be a complete idiot.

I'd say if anyone here qualifies as an idiot it is you. You made clueless remarks, clearly an issue you have no knowledge of, then resort to personal insults and name calling when challenged on it.

Obviously you don't play well with others.



Ignore? Not hardly, there have been as you stated multiple problems with security flaws such as the one mentioned above with MS products just as there have been multiple ones with Mozilla/Netscape. They just don't get as much press as the MS ones do, which was my point. One which you obviously missed, although it was quite difficult to since it was as obvious as the Titanic in your front yard.

Gee more personal insults, how surprising.

You ignored the facts by intentionally omitting them. You told someone asking for help that said program had security flaw X, while advocating program B which had the same bug reported on more than one occasion.

And again you resort to personal attacks. I'll have to presume that your continued outbursts indicate your inability to to respond intelligently.


Lacking functionality, antiquated, modern browsers? LOL What planet do you live on? I know you have some disdain for MS products, obviously, but at least back up your opinion with some facts, that was just horrid.

Wow, more insults. What a surprise. Provide an intelligent response or leave the conversation.

Pop-up protection is relative and more of a "iceing" feature as the tabbed browsing issue is as well. Decent junk filtering, I don't have a problem with junk mail, my Outlook Rules filters out 99% of junk mail thanks.

Based on your responses, it's probably a good thing you are no longer in IT, it doesn't sound like you were very good at it.

If pop up protection is so "relative" and "Icing" as you put it, then you are a complete fool.

First off, explain why so many ISP's are making a big deal out of pop up protection? I guess you don't know about browser hijacking either from your responses so far. Or pop ups interfering with normal browsing operations. However said things do exist, regardless of your personal inexperience with the internet.

Tabbed browsing doesn't add functionality? what planet do YOU live on? I know a lot of people who work with multiple windows open at once. It is almost a necessity these days. Especially for people doing research, people doing business, you know professional types. Something you apparently know little about.


That could be true, I have yet to had a problem with any website displaying properly anywhere, I spend about 4-5 hours a day surfing the net. But not saying it's not true, just haven't experienced that for myself personally.

Emmortal

What? no personal attack or string of insults? That IS a surprise.

You know what? I truly feel sorry for anyone that takes your advice. God help them.

[Emmortal1]

DP.

Emmortal

[Emmortal1]

Originally posted by MadMax
You probably shouldn't be so quick to throw out lame assumptions about people, you are not very good at it.

I never assumed anything, please by all means show me exactly where I assumed anything about anyone?

Originally posted by MadMax
I started IT before 3D. Worked for TRW, you probably heard of them, they track your credit history..

Sure I've heard of them, but what does that have to do with anything? My comments were not in regard to YOU, they were a remark in regards to the majority of users. Which you would know if you used to work in IT as you claim. Obviously you think that my statements are pointed at you, when in fact they were not. Get a grip.

Originally posted by MadMax
here was nothing diufficult to understand at all. Your assertion that M$ has flaws only because hackers target them is one of the most ignorant responses I have seen here in some time

Obviously it was difficult because that's not what I said, READ IT AGAIN and then get back to me. I never said MS has flaws ONLY because hackers target them. Where the hell did you pull that out of??? LOL Take the time to comprehend what you read and then we can discuss it.


Originally posted by MadMax
I'd say if anyone here qualifies as an idiot it is you. You made clueless remarks, clearly an issue you have no knowledge of, then resort to personal insults and name calling when challenged on it.

I stated opinion based on fact, you came back with a poor attempt at a retort, mediocre at best. You have yet to challange anything I've said with so called fact, just your useless opinion.

Originally posted by MadMax
Obviously you don't play well with others.

Maybe you should look in the mirror bub, take some of that medicine you are so willing to dish out.

Originally posted by MadMax
You ignored the facts by intentionally omitting them. You told someone asking for help that said program had security flaw X, while advocating program B which had the same bug reported on more than one occasion.

I never omitted anything. Guess what boy wonder, ANY software out there as bugs, security issues, so what you just said makes ZERO sense. The e-mail clients you so happily shine as the holy grale to all mankind, are full of bugs and security leaks as well. Nice try, but next time use a little more effort. I'll give you a D for that one.

Originally posted by MadMax
Based on your responses, it's probably a good thing you are no longer in IT, it doesn't sound like you were very good at it.

Don't make lame assumptions about people that you don't know. All I'll say is try and be less of a hypocrite next time, ok bud? Whining and complaining about insults yet you continue to insult me, which by the way you started if you scroll back up to your post.

Originally posted by MadMax
First off, explain why so many ISP's are making a big deal out of pop up protection? I guess you don't know about browser hijacking either from your responses so far. Or pop ups interfering with normal browsing operations. However said things do exist, regardless of your personal inexperience with the internet.

Sure I know about all of the above. ISP's making a big deal out of it? Not that I've heard or read, but then again I don't read IT trade magazines everyday like I used to.n I never claimed they never exist, so don't know where you pulled that out of.

Originally posted by MadMax
Tabbed browsing doesn't add functionality? what planet do YOU live on? I know a lot of people who work with multiple windows open at once. It is almost a necessity these days. Especially for people doing research, people doing business, you know professional types. Something you apparently know little about.

Wow, because I don't use tabbed browsing, I'm not a professional, well damn tell that too my boss and co-workers. They'll be really surprised to know they aren't professionals either. Moronic thing to say, your stupidity shines on that one.

Originally posted by MadMax
You know what? I truly feel sorry for anyone that takes your advice. God help them.

God help you as well my son. I'll pray for you and your insecure self delussions. In fact, I'm praying for you right now and praying for the people that have to deal with your simian grade profesionalism. Enjoy,

Emmortal

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
[B]I never assumed anything, please by all means show me exactly where I assumed anything about anyone?

If you've ever worked in the IT industry, which you obviously haven't

That was an assumption on your part, because I didn't think an end user is a moron because they lack experience.

Doesn't say much for your character or personality does it?

Sure I've heard of them, but what does that have to do with anything? My comments were not in regard to YOU, they were a remark in regards to the majority of users. Which you would know if you used to work in IT as you claim. Obviously you think that my statements are pointed at you, when in fact they were not. Get a grip.

Obviously YOUR reading skills are at a 4th grade level.

Obviously it was difficult because that's not what I said, READ IT AGAIN and then get back to me. I never said MS has flaws ONLY because hackers target them. Where the hell did you pull that out of??? LOL Take the time to comprehend what you read and then we can discuss it.

The reason MS has as many flaws as it does, which by the way every software does have flaws/bugs/security holes, is that a lot of hackers target MS for the undying hate agains the company.

I read it just fine the first time. These are your exact words. THE REASON MS HAS AS MANY FLAWS AS IT DOES.....

Your own words. Because hackers target them. Not because they have bad code, not because they are sloppy. They have flaws because hackers attack them.

Are you really going to continue to embarass yourself in public like this?

I stated opinion based on fact, you came back with a poor attempt at a retort, mediocre at best. You have yet to challange anything I've said with so called fact, just your useless opinion.

You intentionally lied to someone asking for help, then when called on it, you countered with personal attacks and name calling. You have yet to post anything even remotely factual.

I never omitted anything. Guess what boy wonder, ANY software out there as bugs, security issues, so what you just said makes ZERO sense.

Really? Why is it you made a warning about one software having a flaw that has long since been patched and yet failed to mention that the same flaw keeps popping up in M$ product?

That was an omission on your part. An omission designed to mislead.

The e-mail clients you so happily shine as the holy grale to all mankind, are full of bugs and security leaks as well.

Nice try. First off learn how to spell. Grail is not spelled grale. As has been typical of your past responses, you prove that your adivce is worthless.

I only stated that the Mozilla mail reader was more secure and a better client. Hardly the religious zealotry you are engaging in. Obviously you have a problem with opinions that differ from your own.

ISP's making a big deal out of it? Not that I've heard or read, but then again I don't read IT trade magazines everyday like I used to.

Then you should probably stay out of conversations that are over your limited capabilities.

[QUOTE]God help you as well my son. I'll pray for you and your insecure self delussions. In fact, I'm praying for you right now and praying for the people that have to deal with your simian grade profesionalism.[/QUOTE}

I always get a very large laugh out of people like you. You throw insults and names at people for disagreeing with you, and then call them inscure when they fail to sink to your level.

[elvis]

Originally posted by MadMax
M$ has flaws because hackers target them? ROTFLMAO!!!!

i second MadMax's motion here.

Microsoft products have flaws. Lots of them. People target these because they are

(a) easily found
(b) take far too long to be fixed
(c) have great (and amusing) results when exploited
(d) of a user base who on the whole wouldn't know what a patch was, nor that they should do to install it. (Even Apple users know how to patch their systems!!!).

A large user-base does not make a product technically better. I would challenge any Outlook user to use Ximian Evolution on Linux, and then go back to Outlook and NOT feel like there were features missing from Microsoft's best effort.

All software is man-made. All software has flaws. There is no getting around that fact. However Microsoft having the most widely used software in the world have a great responsibility to ensure taht their software, even though not perfect, is still better, safer and more reliable than the alternative. Other software certainly has flaws, but they typically result in a best effort of a denial of service to that software, as opposed to Microsoft's continual "remote user runs arbitrary code" type warnings. Scary stuff.

And that it isn't. With their $6 Billion a year budget towards security, they still can't beat the Mozilla project with it's $0 a year security budget. There are no active exploits for Mozilla's mail client. I have yet to be spammed from a Mozilla-based mail client.

I get 50 emails a day from infected Outlook users.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by elvis
i second MadMax's motion here.

Microsoft products have flaws. Lots of them. People target these because they are

(b) take far too long to be fixed

(c) have great (and amusing) results when exploited


These 2 points remind me of the "Back Orifice" exploit from a few years ago.

M$ maintained that Back Orifice was no threat to M$ products or their customers. We did some internal testing since the client and server for the exploit was so easy to come by and it was amazing how easy it was to infect and then exploit the daylights out of a Windows based machine.

Erase files, actually view people typing on their machines, steal passwords, you name it.

It took M$ more than 6 months to finally concede that BO was a threat and patch their system.

Bottom line, as Elvis states, MS is very slow to effect repairs. Mozilla has a nightly page up for patches, major flaws get fixed amazingly quickly.

One gets the impression from M$ that repairs only happen when they become a public spectacle.

Like you Elvis, my inbox is constantly filtered of virii and crap that comes from Outlook users who are infected and don't know it.

[Emmortal1]

"What's funny is that no one ever complains about the HUGE security leaks/bugs in Netscape, some of which can cause a user to take over your entire system at will, but MS gets all the heat for each security bug that comes up. Kind of ironic IMO"

You obviously cannot read, I MENTION IN THE SAME sentence, security issues with MS. You are so blinded by your own stupidity that you can't read. Your statements hold no water.

Spelling and gramatical errors are the whore of the unoriginal and weak minded. Your retorts are pathetic. I'd hope to at least have some sort of come back better than that. But I guess I expected too much from you. You've just proven you have the IQ of a roving band of bricks. Thanks though, it was a good laugh! And the only one emberassing themselves is you, move along and go back under your rock where you belong.

Emmortal

[MadMax]

So Elvis,

you using the Mozilla client or Thunderbird or a little of both?

I have both installed, thunderbird is proving to be quite quick, and is pretty much the same as the Mozilla client.

It's not quite as full featured as the Mozilla package is, but they are integrating all the major functions fairly quickly.

[gmask]

I have been using Yahoo mail and it does have features so that you can download your addresses and mail to common formats.

I pretty much agree that Outlook needs to be purged from he earth.. Mozilla and friends seems to be the next best way to go. I used to use Eudora which I think is on the PC now as well and I allways liked it.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by gmask
I used to use Eudora which I think is on the PC now as well and I allways liked it.

Eudora has always been on the PC.

The bad thing about Eudora, and the major eason I stopped using it, other than random instability, crashes, data loss....

was the fact that even the paid version of Eudora installs spyware. some ad program. I had to delete it daily using Ad Aware.

[Emmortal1]

"(Even Apple users know how to patch their systems!!!)."

Wrong, there are plenty of Apple users who don't know what the hell is going on, that's why they bought a Mac to begin with. Of course there are plenty of people who use Macs that are very savy with their system, just as there are PC users who are savy. But saying even Apple users know how to patch their system is ignorent and false in every sense.

Secondly, if you think that because you've never been spammed by a Mozilla client it's somehow "better". Realize that as a hacker, why would you write a virus to infect a small user base, i.e. Mozilla clients? You wouldn't waste your time doing it because it defeats the purpose entirely.

Just some common sense.

Emmortal

[gmask]

Originally posted by MadMax
Eudora has always been on the PC.

The bad thing about Eudora, and the major eason I stopped using it, other than random instability, crashes, data loss....

was the fact that even the paid version of Eudora installs spyware. some ad program. I had to delete it daily using Ad Aware.

Okay It's been like 7-8 years I think since I used Eudora.. so back then I wasn't very aware of the PC and I'm petty sure it was ad-ware free back then .. so don't take my mentioning of it for anything other than anecdotal.

[elvis]

Originally posted by MadMax
So Elvis,

you using the Mozilla client or Thunderbird or a little of both?

at home i have two systems. on my windows box i use an old copy of eudora 5, although i am in the process of migrating across to mozilla. i use mozilla for web and newsgroups, and it's getting to the stage where it's easier to have everything in the one client.

my other system runs linux, and i use evolution for email on it.

at work i also have two systems. the first is our general work setup which uses outlook 2000 (very unfortunately). i need this system up and running to ensure that the stuff i send around to the users worldwide is correctly formatted, and i can connect to the US exchange server. i'm trying to dump outlook for evolution and it's proprietry exchange plugin, which i much prefer.

my linux system at work uses mozilla-firebird for web, and mozilla-thunderbird for email. this system is roughly half the speed of the windows machine, yet runs a great deal faster in everything from bootup to general web browsing and email. (running debian-unstable with XFCE4 as my desktop).

overall, my preference for email would go:

evolution
mozilla and/or thunderbird
eudora (haven't used eudora 6 yet, so i can't comment on it)
anything else
outlook

i would never EVER use outlook express. i will run direct off a text-only terminal with pine before i was forced to use outlook express. most of the time on a clean install i'll boot in safe mode and delete outlook express before i can do my system any harm.

[elvis]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
"(Even Apple users know how to patch their systems!!!)."

Wrong, there are plenty of Apple users who don't know what the hell is going on, that's why they bought a Mac to begin with. Of course there are plenty of people who use Macs that are very savy with their system, just as there are PC users who are savy. But saying even Apple users know how to patch their system is ignorent and false in every sense.

Ignorant? Righteo. So all my clients who are apple users log on in the mornings, and see the little jumping "software update" icon. they click "install", and 2 minutes later are patched.

meanwhile my windows clients who haven't turned on automatic updates spend months without patching, and all cop the blaster worm. bonus for me, as i charge by the hour to fix it. thanks microsoft.

Secondly, if you think that because you've never been spammed by a Mozilla client it's somehow "better". Realize that as a hacker, why would you write a virus to infect a small user base, i.e. Mozilla clients? You wouldn't waste your time doing it because it defeats the purpose entirely.

i've never been spammed by a mozilla client because there are no viruses that exploit it's mailbox. the reason for that is because BY DEFAULT ActiveX, vbscript and javascript are turned off in emails, which make it impossible to do anything harmful.

on the other hand, a vanilla microsoft outlook install is so open to holes it's not funny.

so, do i as a user pay money for a security risk, or get a low-risk piece of open software for free? hrm... such difficult choices.

i put it this way to my clients: i can charge you money to get a punch in the face, or i can not charge you to get a pat on the back. which would you pick?

"yeah, but everyone else is getting a punch in the face, so maybe i should too".

[Emmortal1]

Is it the fault of the windows users who haven't "turned on automatic updates" or is it the fault of the IT person who administers them for not turning it on to begin with? Seems to me it would lie in your responsibility if you manage and set up their systems. Just a guess.

Maybe you should be thanking yoruself for not setting up their system correctly to begin with instead of pointing fingers at MS. And I'm quite sure you did charge by the hour to fix a problem that shouldn't have ocurred because "windows users" don't know any better, right? :)

Emmortal

[MadMax]

Originally posted by gmask
Okay It's been like 7-8 years I think since I used Eudora.. so back then I wasn't very aware of the PC and I'm petty sure it was ad-ware free back then .. so don't take my mentioning of it for anything other than anecdotal.

Ad garbage was a fairly "recent" innovation for them that started when they adopted the idea of a scaled down ad sponsored free edition.

Unfortunately it carried over, so I am not surprised you hadn't seen it.

[MadMax]

Hey Elvis,

I see you have a new fan.

[elvis]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
Is it the fault of the windows users who haven't "turned on automatic updates" or is it the fault of the IT person who administers them for not turning it on to begin with? Seems to me it would lie in your responsibility if you manage and set up their systems. Just a guess.

All of the users under my administration are updated through products lime Microsoft SUS and SMS. These are not cheap, but are great for corporate networks. In the two years I have been managing this particular office, none of the machines under my control have suffered viruses or attacks of any nature. Our US head office in St Louis certainly has. And for their sloppiness those in charge of security got the boot (and rightly so).

The users I referred to above are private clients of mine who have bought their hardware from another source, and have come to me for some professional advice. I do not sell/rent/lease PCs to customers without including virus scanning and firewalling software, as well as enabling Automatic Updates for both windows and other software.

I also go the "extra mile" to ensure my users are educated so that they can solve their own problems in the future and do not need to spend money on my services in the future. I provide free phone support to all my users, and give them monthly calls to ensure they are aware of the latest threats and how to attack them.

Yes, it's not wise for cash flow, but that's the way I do business. I have yet to have an employer, client or customer who is not happy with my service. Nor do I have any long-term customers who are affected by viruses or other exploits. The same cannot be said for the other few billion Microsoft customers.

[Emmortal1]

Glad you cleared that up. Your previous statement was rather broad and vague, thanks for going the extra mile to explain :)

Emmortal

[elvis]

Originally posted by MadMax
Hey Elvis,

I see you have a new fan.

Yes. Someone who seems to think it's my fault that Windows users get viruses, it seems.

I make one assumption when giving a machine to anotehr human being: that they know nothing. This is not conceited or rude. I ask my mechanic to do the same for me when servicing my car.

I assume they know nothing of viruses, security, attacks, or anything. I then modify their software for a more secure setting, and give them a few words of advice on how to stay secure.

Of all my clients, Microsoft users are the ones who have the most problems. Yes they are the majority, but even if you want to do a breakdown of percent of clients per OS, Microsoft users still win, hands down.

I get hardware problems regardless of platform, but it's funny how none of my Mac or Linux users come bitching to me about adware, spyware, hackings, viruses, etc, etc, etc.

This is merely my observation. When the figures are that high, it's hard not to be cynical about Bill Gates' last speech where he promised (yet again) that Microsoft would do more for security in the coming years.

Meanwhile, the Chinese, Australian Telco's and Airlines, and the whole German Government have moved to linux. I'm just one bloke on a forum. It wasn't just my evangelism that drove these guys to switch. :)

[gmask]

>>>I get hardware problems regardless of platform, but it's funny how none of my Mac or Linux users come bitching to me about adware, spyware, hackings, viruses, etc, etc, etc.

I'm not sure how I got on their subscription list but I get Infoworld and there's an article in the current issues that says "M$ appears to be serious about curing it's security ills".

Anyway.. it's like a day late and a dollar short adn even if their next verison is more secure that won't make the millions of vulnerable home systems go away.. at least not for years to come. They have successful built a legacy of operating systems failures that will keep on keepin on for years to come.

Another good quote is "First, users have this perceotion of Windows products and their level of security, and have given them low grades compared to other systems. Second, users do nothave much confidence that Microsoft can get it right"

When this guy says users though I think he means preofessional usrs and IT people not home users.

[Emmortal1]

Evlis: You stated yourself that your clients got infected with the blaster worm because they didn't update. My point was that as their admin/support whatever it is you are, it was your responsibility to have turned Auto updates on before you handed off the system. You then blamed microsoft because you had to go around and "fix" this problem that "MS" caused, when in fact it could have been avoided if you had done your job to begin with.

You also stated that when you hand off a system to one of your clients you assume they know nothing. So why would you assume that they would know that they need to update, let alone turn Auto updates on?

Emmortal

[gmask]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
You then blamed microsoft because you had to go around and "fix" this problem that "MS" caused, when in fact it could have been avoided if you had done your job to begin with.


Can you sue your doctor because he didn't warn you that you might get cancer from smoking?

Besides that millions of windows usrs don't have an adminstrator period.

[Emmortal1]

We're not talking about the millions of windows users out their, we're discussing his issue with Windows and how his clients got infected because he didn't do his job completely.

And the doctor comment, don't see the correlation there.

Emmortal

[gmask]

Originally posted by Emmortal1
We're not talking about the millions of windows users out their, we're discussing his issue with Windows and how his clients got infected because he didn't do his job completely.

And the doctor comment, don't see the correlation there.

Emmortal

It wouldn't be an isue if it weren't for the millions of windows users.

An administrator is like a doctor, they diagnose and treat problems. They can even reccomend and provide preventative care but it is not their responsibility to or even feasible for them to foresee and warn you of every possible problem out there.

Even if the automatic updating was installed it does not mean that there is zero chance that a person computer will not get a virus before the update is installed.

I don't know the context in which he works so his repsonsibility may be more or less based on that .. for privacy concerns windows cannot have the software installer automatically enable auto updates.. if he's responsible then M$ is even more so.

[Emmortal1]

I see what you are saying, but however I did not state that he was responsible for every unforseeable mishap that they might endure. Could his specific issue have been avoided if he had turned on Auto Updates? More than likely it could have been avoided, but as you state maybe not.

In regards to the millions of Windows users out there, that is true, I know what you are saying. But would it be any different with any other OS if Windows was not the standard? Quite possibly not.

The majority of users out there aren't going to switch over to Linux or another OS because it's more secure, more stable, or whatever. Until software developers decide that they no longer want to write their programs for the target market of Windows users, we'll just have to deal with the accompanying issues that come with its use.

We are all aware of other solutions that are in most cases better for our needs, but unlike the technical savy, the average user is not going to go through the cost and time to learn a new OS and purchase his applications for it if they even exist.

Emmortal

[gmask]

>>>In regards to the millions of Windows users out there, that is true, I know what you are saying. But would it be any different with any other OS if Windows was not the standard? Quite possibly not.


Well here is the crux of the matter..

Because of the way windows is programmed in comparison to Linus for example.. attachments as executables are very unlikely spread on linux. It is human behavior to unwittingly click on an attachment and with windows this attachment becomes immediately executable but this is not the case with linux.

This article covers it well...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/56/33226.html

[Emmortal1]

Interesting read, thanks for the article. The issue with that can and is thwarted by virus scanning programs. I just wish more people would actually use it and keep them updated. I think a lot of these issues with Outlook could be addressed. Of course there are the other issues with it, but maybe we'll get lucky and MS will hold to it's word, but then again I know better and won't be holding my breath on that one :)


Emmortal

[gmask]

Even still if they do fix it it will take a while for all older sysems to get updated or replaced but it wil be appreciate dnone th eles if they coudl make Outllook less of a virus fest.

[thomaspecht]

old topic revived, i know. but the question still remains: what's a good alternative to outlook (express) these days? no problems with virii or hacks here but i do use a custom color scheme (very dark, "discreet-style") and for some stupid reason even if i set outlook to send only plain text messages, the colors on received mail look silly and unreadable when viewed on machines with a standard windows color scheme. had numerous complaints from recipients and want to put an end to this once and for all.

i've just decided to end my fight against thunderbird 1.2 which is not only far slower and less stable but also likes to consume over 25 megabytes of ram for email client functionality - yet it seems to be less customizeable.

i definitely do not want to have ad-ware or spyware on the system and i do remember quite well how clunky eudora was and that it saved the user's mesages in the main program directory. not to mention that i sometimes lost messages with it.
pegasus mail

is pegasus worth checking out these days? used it back in the nineties for a short time but it was so ugly and clunky...

any other solution i'm not aware of? should be small, fast, memory efficient, secure and easy on the eyes.

[JDex]

Gmail has replaced it all together from me... best solution I have ever seen for email management. Yes there are some things that scare people about it... but I PGP encrypt any important files/content so that Google has ownership over a file that is worthless to them...

[FunkLord]

GIJoe, you were asking for other alternatives. Now I know this isn't a full-blown solution that most of you are looking for, but I personally use the Opera browser (http://www.opera.com) and the built-in mail client. It takes a bit of getting used to, but there is no loading time (I have Opera running most of the time anyway), a very convenient type of notification when new mails arrive, a half-automatic address book, a quick-search function, and a few other things i really appreciate.
Before you get over-excited though, I have to point out that it's still text-based only, even in the newest version. So for any fancy formatting, take Thunderbird, or whatever you like. Recieving HTML mails is no problem, though.

[gustojunk]

Funny to see this very old topic I started revived. After my long search I ended up using thunderbird, it's absolutely awesome and very easy to keep organized. Not fectet, but the best alternative I've come across so far. Teh beauty of it is also that I can have access to all my received mail offline, which AFAIS you cannot do with Gmail.

[Fahad]

viruses (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=viruses)

for those who were wondering. :wise:

cheers.

[ambient-whisper]

considering that outlook now doesnt automatically execute emails as you go over them, and you can get your email checked by a virus checker before it gets to your computer, theres no real big problem anymore. i havent gotten any spam emails for the longest time ( yes, NO spam for 2 years ), and i use email a whole lot. no viruses here either. all the problems i had were related to IE. having switched to firefox has eliminated it all.

outlook is easy to use, its there from the get go, and freakin easy to setup. why bother with another software just to get features galore, which you dont need.

[iC4]

my favourite program with a LOT of features is The Bat!

http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/

it's very fast, you can configure everything and I like the little bat as tray icon ;)

[BRUTICUS]

I use Outlook and its pretty good to me. I liked it better before tho when you could see images that were sent in the preview window and in the message. Some reason I cant see it now and it is really lame to have to open the image with another software.

I use linux at work and I would much rather use windows.

[evanfotis]

Gmail has replaced it all together from me... best solution I have ever seen for email management. Yes there are some things that scare people about it... but I PGP encrypt any important files/content so that Google has ownership over a file that is worthless to them...
Hi, this might seem a bit stupid but...
can you tell me how to get gmail?
I typed in gmail.com but it only has a sign in box for already users.
Did not manage to find where to register:shrug:
thanks.

[JDex]

Hi, this might seem a bit stupid but...
can you tell me how to get gmail?
I typed in gmail.com but it only has a sign in box for already users.
Did not manage to find where to register:shrug:
thanks.

PM me your email and I'll send you an invitation... it's still in beta, so it's by invite only.

[lots]

Isn't that humorous?

Gmail's still in beta, yet EVERY user has like 50 invites.. Might as well just open'er up i say... I have too many invites to know what to do with :)

[Joel Hooks]

I personally think Thunderbird sucks. Firefox is great, but Mozilla Mail has always been weak sauce. I will agree that there are more targeted Outlook virii, especially with express, but the Outlook Pro client is leaps and bounds ahead of the Thunderbird. I can't stand the user configurations and the lack of a PST type file (or multiple PST files as in my particular case)

[lots]

There's always evolution.. Though I dont know if that works in windows ;)

[ew2x4]

Thunderbird all the way. Fastest, easiest, best, IMO.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.