Still: Double Chocolate Donut

[Mr. Sad]

Tasty subject matter!

The most obvious change to me is the highlight on the icing. It burns out to total white. In the cake reference picture the highlights never burn out.

Also, it would be great if there was some sort of GI or GI fake. It feels odd to have totally black shading on the donuts right next to pure white shading on the ground.

Hope I've been helpful.

[Lord_Vader]

I dont really know about the donut itself, but i think the icing is too shiny. look at the reference you posted more closely - the specular on the chocolateis bigger and less bright. it also has some bump mapping while your icing is ultra smooth. try to roughen it up some.

[gmask]

Here's some of the images I have been referring to for icing.

I did add some bump to it.. I guess I'm going for the total hero donut.. almost perfect...some of the ones pictured looked like the have been fondled by a trucker.

The specular highlights vary greatly from a soft highlight to a bright one like I have ..the question is what is most appealling.


http://gmaskfx.com/food/donutrefs.jpg


I will also work on the shadowing..

Thanks for the comments!!!

[Dargon]

I think even the most sharply highlighted ones aren't as sharp as yours. I would tone it down a bit, and perhaps model a bit more of the icing shapes to make it look more photo real.

I might start with PhongE, rather than Phong, because it is meant for more liquid surfaces, and you could get some really liquid feel to it... like fresh out of the oven!

Mmmm... Doughnuts....

I think it would do well to have some of those cracks and bubbles in the icing like you see in the chocolate examples below...


Of course, if you're just poking fun, (you are getting a reputation) then there's room for that too...

[gmask]

>>Of course, if you're just poking fun, (you are getting a reputation) then there's room for that too...

I'm dead serious with the donuts.. I'll be taking all the comments seriously as well.

Actually the shader on the icing is a blinn but I will try a phong.

Oh an as I understand how donuts are made they are usualy dipped into the icing.. I don't think they shoudl be bubbled. I prefer a dried icing over one that is still wet or melted. I dunno I guess that is a personal preference. I guess if the donut is tasty it doesn't matter of it is messy.

[Tahl'eN]

Even on your Hero Donut, the frosting highlight should be more spread out. You also might want to add some brown to the highlight color.
The dough part looks great, but it would be easier to critique if you could render it either with GI or a GI fake, and without the frosting...

[Slurry]

Hi gmask,

Looking at your reference pic and the render of the dough part of the nut, I think your texture is a little too saturated by comparison. Maybe a little less colour.
Also, the cake part looks to not only be "bumpy" but porous while your texture/render has the bump but not the pores.
I hope these observations help!

~S

[gmask]

http://gmaskfx.com/food/DoubleChocolateDonut_2.jpg

I built a GI fake but the bounce light isn't working .. I thought I could get it to shine through the floor and illuminate the bottoms of the donuts but it's not working.

I don't want to have to use render layers.. anyway may try MR next.

I went a little darker with the cake.. I hear ya on the porousness but.. I have a bunt cake pciture that looks to me more like what I'm thinking and it has more of a shiny "hard" surface to it. Bundt gets it from the "lard" that you smear onteh cake form so it doesn't stick.. some of the cake donuts I have had have sort of a suger glaze on them

I think the icing is looking better..

[TheFreak]

The icing looks better new but i have a problem with the dough bit.

I don't think a cake was a very good ref pic to work from. The sides of a cake are porous because they are pressed against the side of a cake tin. As a doughnut is not cooked in that manner the outer skin (as such) is usualy baked and has a smoother apperance.

Take a look at your other doughnut ref pics and you will see that none of them have the same porous texture as the cake side, but they are smooth.

Just my two cents :)

[Mr. Sad]

Excellent improvement to the quality of the highlight! Another thing to consider now is to either make the highlight or the light slighty blue.

To make this image look more tasty you could consider an environment change. White is a... sterile color. I think a red color would go nicely with the brown icing. At least half of this image is going to be lighting, the rest is materials and texturing.

[ukyo]

this is what i think its looks like a doughnut but the icing still feels off maybe to plasticy and the doughnut it self doesnt feel like a doughnut.

this is why i love 3d, its all about research baby. i know i personally spend about 2 months researching a topice before it start it not to mention the research that goes during the project.

your using photo refrence MAN what r u thinking go out and get doughnuts, what a great exscuse to eat doughnuts. at worst put down a clear peice of acetate and scan the doughnut. u must tast of the doughnut to be able to exspress the doughnut texture. u must be the doughtnut.

and when the doughnut gets stale they still look like doughnuts and they only cost lie 30 cents or soimething, im not sure i havent bought one in a while but i need a fix now. i know i say all this is a frosting of humor but im mostly serious go and get some doughnuts as a treat and refrence.

[gmask]

>>>your using photo refrence MAN what r u thinking go out and get doughnuts, what a great exscuse to eat doughnuts. at worst put down a clear peice of acetate and scan the doughnut. u must tast of the doughnut to be able to exspress the doughnut texture. u must be the doughtnut.


Yeah I know.. I have stopped at a few bakerys but they didn't have this donut.. maybe I imagined it??? I guess I shall just get a choco glazed one and the closest I can get to the "cake" donut and mixed the two concepts.

[JamesMK]

He he... I'll be dead serious.

The dough - I'm positive that the only way to make it work is to add a bit of translucency or fake SSS. There's quite a lot of "shine-through" (huh?) going on in that sort of spongy material.

And second I wouldn't try blinn or phong here - throw some Oren-Nayar at it (if you've got it... it's the best way IMO) EDIT: I'm still only talking about the dough. You'll fix the icing yourself :)

[Janoshz]

you need to work harder on both the lightning and the material.
It is no even close to realistic looking at the moment.
ad some crispier bumps to the icying to break up the surface

[ambient-whisper]

deleted a few posts in this thread.

posts like these ( quoted below ) that even state the fact that theres no critiques ( or useful information inside the post ) will be deleted on sight.

Can't give crits. You just made me hungry. Going to the fridge now...

cheers and have fun.

[wgreenlee1]

the diffuse is too dark for the donut it self
needs a little spec or something to lighten it up a little...considering its on a white table and all

[singularity2006]

hmmm.... that fixed lighting on the icing looks a lot better than the first. But something about it makes the icing look like it's really rounded and thick... sorta bulging from the donut itself. Looks super tasty, but that bottom donut's icing looks way too thick the way the light is reflected off of it. Anyhow, if you could say, flatten out the look of the bottom donut's icing just a bit, it might look better. Anyhow, that's a tasty donut.

[Sir-Patroclo]

Hi Gmask

besides the need for cracks and general "noise" in the icing that other people have posted, I noticed that the border of the real icing is of a different color then the rest. I mean, it isn't a harsh border of perfect edges, but it has a different texture where it meets the "body" of the donut, I think because the thickness of the chocolate there is lesser.

My two cents

Sir Patroclo

[valu]

It Looks delicious, with some Icecream would be the best!!!!


Congratulations!!!!!


p.s:maybe the donnut is a little bit dark, It ´s looking like a cake inside. Other than that it´s all good!!!

[gmask]

Thanks for the replies.. I wil try to work on it some more in the near future but currently work has me animating a different type of fast food.

[bmoney]

a few things.

The table is too bright, it dominates the picture and looks way to clean white.
The donut icing is not bad, but looks too plastic, real donuts have bulges and noise and maybe a pointy piece where the icing was applied and then broke off.
The lighting is pretty average and really takes away from the image. The shadow should be behind the image and a fill light should be used to soften the dark areas.
Last but not least, how about some crumbs and a plate? How often do you see a donut sitting in a scientific labratory in perfectly restored condition.

Brett.

Hope I have been of some assistance.

[gmask]

>>The table is too bright, it dominates the picture and looks way to clean white.

Good points maybe the next thing i will do is to simple place this image on a more appropriate background.. it will be interesting to see how that influences the perception of the donuts.

>>The donut icing is not bad, but looks too plastic, real donuts have buldges and noise and maybe a pointy piece where the icing was applied and then broke off.

The icing really varies from donut to donut some have very sticky shiney icing and others have an almost matte finish to them. These are the kind that would have been dipped in icing top down so i don't think a "pointy piece" makes any sense.

>>Last but not least, how about some crumbs and a plate? How often do you see a donut sitting in a scientific labratory in perfectly restored condition.

I'm am working on hero food shots.. so unless there is a bite taken from the donut or it is otherwise intentionally broken you usually would not show crumbs in food styling. Maybe it is the perfect donut .. which can only be ceated in outerspace in zero gravity.. just kidding

[TheGreenGiant]

omg. this is a real wip thread :D

I think one of the things about the most recent render is that the donut texture (not the icing) isn't quite right yet - too brown and too uniform. The icing also needs to have its specularity broken a bit - atm its all too uniform.. maybe undulate the icing surface

you gotta add sprinkles!!! and do my favourite jam donuts with sprinkles~!!

[bmoney]

sorry. The explanation 'pointy bits' was a bit vague. When you dip the donut into the icing top down, as you turn it around and leave it to dry, it has a the piece hanging off like a staligmite(omg spelling) in a cave that is slightly pointy (from when the donut was hanging upside down.) See the edge of your reference shot, and also the icing drips down further into the centre of the donut. Like 1 or 2 runs, I hate those bits. It gets messy when eating. My parents own a deli, I have seen quite a few donuts :)

Brett.

[DeathBrain]

Another great model & shader Gmask :)
2nd image icing looks great and the white background is OK, most of macro-shot food products uses white flat background..

But i little bit confuse about this :

I built a GI fake but the bounce light isn't working .. I thought I could get it to shine through the floor and illuminate the bottoms of the donuts but it's not working.

errr...Have you tried to use bottom ambient light (no shadows) ?
I think Maya standard render lighting works very well..:)

[gmask]

>>>errr...Have you tried to use bottom ambient light (no shadows) ?
I think Maya standard render lighting works very well..:)

Hmm.. I'll try that when I get a chance.. thanks!

[bmoney]

You could also mess with the light linking in the relationship editor.

Brett.

[gmask]

Originally posted by bmoney
You could also mess with the light linking in the relationship editor.

Brett.

Unless I needed seperate lighting for the donut and the icing I don't see what the point of that would be.

[bmoney]

It makes plenty of sense. The light would be linked to the donut and the icing, and not the floor. You could then get your bounce light working.

[gmask]

Originally posted by bmoney
It makes plenty of sense. The light would be linked to the donut and the icing, and not the floor. You could then get your bounce light working.

OK that works ..thanks

[JasonD]

maybe try and put a bump,like small cracks or something on the icing... make it not so smooth....

[erilaz]

*Looks at his donut*

I would suggest some kind of crystalisation of the icing or the dough itself, as in residual sugar from it's departed brethren. Most donuts, even the non-sugared kind, have sugary bits on them, due to the environment they have been in.

Or is that being too anal?

[gmask]

Originally posted by erilaz
Or is that being too anal?

Uh.. yeah not the best word for a discussion of donuts.. perhaps.. anyway maybe I will have time to work on this again soon.. ;-)

Hero product shots probably would not have been donuts that where stuffed in a box.. in some cases when possible the food is prepared on set.

[TheGreenGiant]

hmm.. actually.. donut and anal goes together kind of well. Saw Frighteners the other day and the creepy detective guy had hemmaroids or somthing and he took out this DONUT shape seat thing to sit on.

back on topic. Get yourself a box of Krispy Kremes... strictly for research

[Woyman]

Mmmmmmm.... krispy kreme..... mmmmmm...

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