Rats crowd, full cg shot

[toufik]

hello

this is the Crowd sim setup, made on 3dsmax,Pflow, in the second link you will see the rats are weird because it's just a simple model and animation done by me, once the modeling and the run cycle will be done, i will use it as an instance in particles system

sorry for my bad english


1: http://vimeo.com/21301498

2: http://vimeo.com/21343974


all comments are welcome :shrug:

[toufik]

this is a new wip, i finished the modeling & lighting, still polishing and testing diferent style of lighting, maybe i will add some objects, all comments are welcome i am waiting :)

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/76/wipz.jpg (http://img8.imageshack.us/i/wipz.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[softdistortion]

Hi toufik,
Can't say much except what you have so far looks promising. :thumbsup:
Is this for a school project?

[toufik]

thanks !! no it's not a school project, just for traning and showing skills.

[softdistortion]

Ah,ok, got it...saw something on one of the vids that made me wonder if it was for school...

Took a look at all your showreels today. You guys have some serious skills between you.

....it seems horribly deserted in here , but please keep updating us with your wips...people are coming to look, they just rarely comment.

Look forward to seeing what the 3 of you come up with! :buttrock:

[mikecawood]

Very cool. Welcome to the forum toufik.

[toufik]

thanks guys !!
im waiting for the character to send it to the animator, in the meanwhil im trying diferent setup of lighting

all comments are welcom

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2440/newwip.jpg (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/newwip.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[rabieart]

Hi everyone
thanks a lot for the great welcome
I would like to say this is the second time working with my friend Toufik and I was so happy to hear that Luiz will join us!
as I asked from toufik , this shoot need a low poly rat for the crowds ..So no much of details cuz simply its dark room and there will be like 600 to 1000 rats :argh:
so that wt I did so far- no need for using zbrush to add details or stuff like that-
I model the rat on Maya and layout the uvs using UVlayout and Maya..

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8625/32815484.jpg (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/32815484.jpg/)


http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1467/82780298.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/82780298.jpg/)

[softdistortion]

Thanks so much for wip updates with some images and detail info like this rabieart!

Informs, Inspires, and motivates! :buttrock:

[LuizAmaralTD]

Hello all!
I just got the model!!! I will look at it tonight and hopefully tomorrow we will have wips of the rig here!
Great to be part of this project!:cool:
Best of luck for you all
:beer:
Luiz

[Coldframe]

cooool project! al keeep an eye on this thread for sure!
good luck everyone
R/°

[toufik]

thanks alot Ismail !!! glad you like it !! :bounce:

[LuizAmaralTD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSxhN6qhAXU
Running rat vídeo


http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/science/biological_sciences/lab13/images/ratskell.jpeg
http://www.cyprusupdates.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/rat.jpg
http://www.scientificamerican.com/media/inline/000164D2-278C-11F0-A78C83414B7F0000_1.gif
http://www.arkive.org/media/CD/CD834650-AF37-4A49-A9CD-A30D5CDCB90D/Presentation.Large/Greater-stick-nest-rat-running-across-sand.jpg
http://www.80stoysale.com/images/stormy137.jpg
http://www.80stoysale.com/images/stormy76.jpghttp://www.80stoysale.com/images/stormy200.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2726/4474062625_af0ba04035.jpghttp://www.mainsgate.com/spacebio/modules/ms_resource/RatSkeleton.jpeg

[softdistortion]

Very nice selection of reference material Luiz.
...interested to know your process on how you use these to develop your rig and poses/animations.

[LuizAmaralTD]

Hello there softdistortion!

I use the references for positioning the joints(or bones in max) and to feel how each joint moves and how the flesh, muscles, skin and tendons react to its movements.

The joint placement is the key to a good rig.

Does this answer to your question?

Cheers!

Luiz

[softdistortion]

Yes, thnx!

If possible please still share your thoughts and method and challenges/solutions as you work through it.

I ask especially after seeing you have a longer experience doing rigs for productions, and animation over the years.

I've really only worked on multiped robots and biped humans with mocap. Would be interesting and valuable to see a professional approach on a quadruped like this.

*Also was wondering at some of the poses in the stills- might just be personal opinion, but even though they are obviously real rats, the poses look a bit unnatural in a still frame. Do you use them also in your plans or if you just grabbed them while you had a chance.

[LuizAmaralTD]

OK, I use this stressed poses to help me define the range of motion and what happens to the body on its limits. If you solve for this extremes you usually solves better for the more usual poses.

And I only grab things that will help me to achieve any goal I'm researching for... this way my reference folther ends up with only good stuff

Does that make sense to you? Cos this isn't a rule at all... its just the way I do things.

Cheers!

Luiz

[softdistortion]

Yes, that makes perfect sense.
will keep following your wips.
thx again.

[rabieart]

Alright guys..
Luiz nice to see you here :)
so simple this is the color map I painted using Zbrush

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5596/fortheforumscgtalkviewr.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/fortheforumscgtalkviewr.jpg/)

[omar3d]

Nice project guys..

Any storyboards, script written ??

For the environment: i suggest that the scene should be more dirty, more scattered objects, spider webs on wall corners, to give the feel of such a place full with rats

[LuizAmaralTD]

Great rabieart!!
Send those maps to Toufik please so I can use them with your model

[softdistortion]

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5596/fortheforumscgtalkviewr.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/fortheforumscgtalkviewr.jpg/)

Looking good!

[rabieart]

Great rabieart!!
Send those maps to Toufik please so I can use them with your model


Sure !

---------------

softdistortion : Thanks!

[LuizAmaralTD]

So,
Here is my very first aproach to this rig...
http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/Rat_Rig_WIP_01.jpg

And with some tweaking...

http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/Rat_Rig_WIP_02.jpg

The first and most important step is the joint placement.
I´m still working on it, just the left view for now...

[LuizAmaralTD]

Hello all,
My domain appears to be off so the images I have posted simply aren't showing up :hmm:

Anyways, I have made a classical rigging mistake here... I jumped in to it without checking the size of the mesh and the units system that Toufik will be using on the crowd simulation.

So, here goes the very first steps on rigging ;)

1) Check the units system!!

2) Check the position of the model in relation to the grid. I has to be with the feet touching the x axis (floor) and exactly in the middle of the other two axis. at least its how I do my rigs.

3) Check the size of the mesh!! It has to be at (or near to) real life size and this is very, very important.

4) Check the mesh integrity. Look for lost points, holes, duplicated faces and so.

4) Reset all the transformations on the mesh and clean the history and/or stacks before you connect it with the rig. In 3ds Max, use the reset Xform command (then collapse the stacks) to ensure the software sees the mesh internally the same way that you see it on the view-port.

So Toufik,

Which unity system are you using on the crowd simulation? And just to be sure, what is the size of your rats (without the tail)?

:beer:

Luiz

[rabieart]

Good luck Luiz!
Nice tips btw :lightbulb

[LuizAmaralTD]

Thanks Rabieart!

So, this is how the rat rig looks now... units = cm and the size is near a real life rat size... Later on I will change that to fit Toufiks crowd simulation scene, The main bones and the mesh are parented to the purple solid, which have its pivot on 0,0,0 (this is just for size adjustments) .

http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/Rat_Rig_WIP_03.jpg

[toufik]

thats great Luiz, :drool:

i would like to explain that in particles system it takes only the rat's shap, not bones, so that allow me to add scale and speed variation as you can see in this simpl exemple

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Q0NXmTlLE

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1394/unled1d.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/i/unled1d.jpg/)

[LuizAmaralTD]

Very good Toufik! :buttrock:
I will stick with the real life size for the rat then.
:beer:

[softdistortion]

Ooopso... double post......:blush: ........see below.

[softdistortion]

LuizAmaralTD- Those tips are priceless. thx!

toufik- was looking at your Youtube clip and saw Fumefx pyroclastic R&D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcEY75gFe0o) ..... :drool: beautiful.

[toufik]

thanks dude ! :)

" here you can find all my RnD"
http://toufx.fr.gd/R%26D.htm

[LuizAmaralTD]

Had to re-create all the bones because of the re-sizing process.... so here is my progress for today

http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/Rat_Rig_WIP_04.jpg

See you tomorrow :wavey:

[toufik]

hello Luiz

looks perfect, cant wait to see it mooving :D

good luck

[rabieart]

Nice start Luiz :)
hope to c the animation soon
keep it up man

[softdistortion]

Your team are bringing excitement back to this section of CGS!
Keep it going guys. :buttrock:

[LuizAmaralTD]

Thank you all friends!!! :thumbsup:
This is really motivating! Yesterday I had a very busy day and couldn't work on the project :banghead:
Today I will jump on it :wip::wip::wip: again!

:beer:

Luiz

[Coldframe]

great Updates guys !
toufik< just a note: the particle could be more randomized i guiss, using two diffrent animation for the rat
other than that everything is looking great

Ismail (http://jklp.org/public/html/choose.html)

[toufik]

Hi

Luiz, take your time we are waiting for you,good luck...

Ismail, thanks for your suggestion, i will keep it in mind, :deal:


:shrug:

[LuizAmaralTD]

IKs are in place... I come back to it later tonight (another busy day at work:banghead: )

http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/Rat_Rig_WIP_05.jpg

[LuizAmaralTD]

Hello all... there are the rat controllers.

http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/Rat_Rig_WIP_06.jpg

:wip::wip::wip:

[toufik]

hey Luiz


thats cooool :bounce:
good luck for the rest let me know whn you will finish the run sycle please

[LuizAmaralTD]

Hello Toufik! Thats hard to tell man... but I can tell you this, every spare time I have goes for the Rat project!!

That's good enough?

:beer:

Luiz

[toufik]

sure dude that's good :thumbsup:

just want to know when u will finish it but anyway looks great :eek: !

good luck for the animation :buttrock: and thanks again for your time :)

[softdistortion]

Nice progress guys.

[LuizAmaralTD]

I´m back!!!

There goes some screen shots of the skin test and a link to the view-port clip.

http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/LuizAmaral_Rat_Wip_A.mp4

http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/Rat_Rig_WIP_07.jpg

This is the very first step on skinning, there are only the base bones and the weights comes all from the envelops.

The next step is to add muscle bones and further adjust the envelops as good as it can get.

After the envelopes are all adjusted further refinements are done by setting individual point weights.

After all the muscle bones are in place and the weights adjustment is done I usually make some corrective shapes and link them to the respective poses.

Toufik and Rabieart, I´m almost there... hope to animate the running cycles today. Again, sorry for taking so long to finish this but my life have been very busy since we started this thread.

All the best for you all, this project really rocks!!! :buttrock:

Luiz

[toufik]

hey Luiz
the skining looks good.. :thumbsup: , we hope that you will get free time today and finish the runing,
good look dude :buttrock:

[rabieart]

Nice progress dude :wip:

[lillababe]

nice... i think i know this rat ;)

I saw the little animation and mind that backbone of the rats streches / curves really a lot.. I have a chinchilla at home (same kind of the rodent) and I watch him move around with fascination. Another source of reference i can think of (for animation) - 3D movies with rats like Ratatoille, A tale of Desperaux, Flushed Away (in the the last one they are more in a human form).

http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi3363963161/

[softdistortion]

Looking good Luiz.

[LuizAmaralTD]

Thanks lillababe, Thanks softdistortion :)

Here goes a block run cycle, comments and critics are very welcome :thumbsup:

http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/ (http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/LuizAmaral_Rat_Wip_Block_Run_Cycle.mp4)LuizAmaral_Rat_Wip_Block_Run_Cycle.mp4 (http://www.luizamaraltd.com/Rat_WIP/LuizAmaral_Rat_Wip_Block_Run_Cycle.mp4)
:wip::wip::wip:


This is my first approach to this animation, I saw a reference shot sometime ago and didn't looked at it again to make this block run cycle.

I did the animation in two hours and spent one more hour to compose this clip. I´m going to sleep now. Tomorrow at night I come back to refine it with a refreshed eye and with a frame by frame analysis of the reference footage.

Toufik and Rabieart, I´m counting on your critics on this guys, so bring em on!!:scream::scream::scream:


Going to sleep after a veeeery long day :wavey:

[softdistortion]

Great update video!
One thing I notice - he seems to be floating a bit in his jump? But it's the block stage so you probably are at new level already. :)

[LuizAmaralTD]

...One thing I notice - he seems to be floating a bit in his jump?...

Yes he is floating... I noticed that just after reviewing the reference (the one I posted here) The jumps are way shorter and he lands with the front legs on the reference... the way I did the blocking looks more like a kangaroo :p

But this stage is good to play with the rig and test the motion.

The one thing I found really nice on this test was the skin behavior, you can feel the muscles beneath the skin and the bones on the chest... and this are all skin with envelopes, I didn't added any muscle bones or corrective shapes...

I´m pretty happy with the skin and with the rig also, it will be fun to work with it further...

Thak you for the comments Softdistortion :thumbsup:

Have a very nice weekend!

Cheers,

Luiz

[toufik]

hello,

unfortunately since Luiz is very busy, the rat will be animated by me, so luiz sent me a great rigging !! wich allowed me to get this quick animation,
cheers

http://m.UploadEdit.com/b92/25152789.gif (http://m.UploadEdit.com/b92/25152789.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWoWrAf65w

[softdistortion]

Nice work toufik.
Using an animated .gif embed is excellent idea to show wips without needing to link out to a video all the time...I gotta get back to doing that myself again too!

[toufik]

hi everyon

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/4244/vlcsnap2011070418h00m13.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/vlcsnap2011070418h00m13.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
feel free to watch the final shot, all comments and critics are welcome, i hope you like it :cry:

http://www.vimeo.com/25963943


a big thanks again to Mohamed Aly rabie and Luiz Amaral for their time

Mohamed Aly Rabie : http://www.rabieart.com/

Luiz Amaral : http://www.luizamaraltd.com/

[LuizAmaralTD]

Hey Toufik! Good work!!!
It looks very good!!!

I'm vary happy to be part of this!!!

All the best!

Luiz

[davius]

Just saw this and I gotta say nice job guys! I see how hard it is to pull such things off! Congratulations to the whole team and hope you get together again to make something else!

Cheers!

[Razorshark]

I must admit it look really good so far...
Beside this i couldn't help noticing that the bricks have a certain "magnetized feeling" to them, like the're stuck to the floor too fast... as this floor you've designed looks a bit more slippery, perhaps more slides to the falling debris or something making it go further apart... anyway, a minor thing for such a nice achievement so far... great stuff. :thumbsup:

[softdistortion]

Toufik- Congrats and great job to you and your team. Turned out well! :thumbsup:

Can you maybe offer some top tips you think helped you succeed?
I'd love to add your experience to the collabnews.com site if you are ok with a short interview?

Would be useful for other wanting to do collab projects. :wip:

[toufik]

hello
thanks alot !!
hmm tips :surprised my english is very bad, but i will try to express though :)

first of all, i would like to say that i am not satisfated about the result :banghead:

my referense was the roof falling scene in Ratatouille (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSgXD1PLv_g)

i did some researches using (3Dsmax, Pflow) to test the feasibility of a good rat's crowd http://vimeo.com/21301498
the nice rat model of Mohamed and Rigging of Luiz were very helpful !

i built the interior using simple shapes and cool textures frome www.cgtextures.com , and Vray for lighting, i used a still image to save time, that's why ther is no camera shaking when the piece of roof smashed on the floor ...

rendered in Vray,and standar scanline in several passes such as
interior (still image)
volume light
dust
smoke
rats
piece of the roof
and so on ....
all in .tga

assembled in After effects

i hope that my english is understandable :cry:

i will post a short making of as soon as possible

cheers

[softdistortion]

Thx Toufik.

What would you do different next time to like it more?

Even with help of others, how much do you say a person should expect to have to do themselves for a similar project?

How much time, roughly, would you say it took to do this form beginning to end?

What did you learn from this project as far as technical and team skills?

Was it worth your time and effort?

Your english is fine btw. :)

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