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rsischy6491
03-25-2011, 08:32 PM
Have had a lot of problems rendering particles and nparticles
in 3delight. Limited integration as best as I can tell. Does anyone
know if fluids, nparticles etc. are well integrated into maya renderman?
Thanks.

hkspowers
03-25-2011, 10:51 PM
I have used it and all I can say is wow. This is seriously what Maya's native render support needs to be for their fx. Renderman for maya 4.0 supports ALL particle types, fluids, has deep shadows, and can do constructive geometry at render time, even on instances. And best of all no crazy coding, or some backwards ass setup like 3delight, everything just works right out of the box.

republicavfx
03-26-2011, 02:47 PM
im still using RfM 3. awesome particle support which never crashes and is straight forward

rsischy6491
03-27-2011, 12:41 AM
Been working for someone who wants to save $ using 3delight. It seems to be
a good solution in some respects but dynamics seems to be an after thought.
I want to talk them into purchasing renderman. Penny wise and pound foolish it
seems.

JupiterSunset
03-29-2011, 11:47 AM
while I have yet to try rfm for particles,
I have to admit that I was positively
astonished when I first rendered
huge volumes of particles with
deepshadows and mblur in
3delight...superfast, super-pretty etc.

admittedly it's easy to impress me
as I only used Maya HW or mray
before...and all of a sudden it
feels like Krakatoa made its
way into Maya : )

btw - why is there no offer
of a stripped down 3delight
or rfm or xy-rMan-compliant,
pre-packaged to just act as an
easy-to-use dynamics renderer
for Maya (like Krakatoa is for Max),
and at a lower price point compared
to the full version?

makes perfect sense (in my head at least)
you'd get a wider user base, some of them
will want to upgrade later on....etc. hmm.

Albo
03-29-2011, 01:26 PM
I'll be curious to know something more about these 3delight limitations.. For what I can read in the documentation it's not bad.
And are they really limitations, or more like bugs?

rsischy6491
03-29-2011, 02:17 PM
In delight you need to add a geoAttriubutes node to the particles to pass
on the attributes from Maya to 3Delight. You then need to go into the attribute
node make sure all the attributes are being transfered. In the case of nParticles
in particular but particles generally it doens't always pass all of those attributes on. 3Delight
doesn't even recognize basic particle types like cloud with nParticles. The
documentation is sparse. 3Delight doesn't recognize the mesh converson
of nParticles etc. etc.
The 3delight forum is often snotty and unhelpful.
Renderman doesn't have any sort of trial version so it's hard for me to compare these
compatibility issues and make choices about investing in it.

earlyworm
03-29-2011, 04:23 PM
You should be able to get an eval license to test it out...

https://renderman.pixar.com/forum/eval/

rsischy6491
03-29-2011, 05:39 PM
Thanks for the evaluation info

ronaldchew
03-30-2011, 07:02 AM
Have had a lot of problems rendering particles and nparticles
in 3delight. Limited integration as best as I can tell. Does anyone
know if fluids, nparticles etc. are well integrated into maya renderman?
Thanks.

I encourage you to revisit 3delight for rendering particles, maybe ask some question on their forum, there are a bunch of very very helpful guy there. I had some production experience with 3delight/particles before, all I can said is, the major limitation only come from how much I know about the Renderman shading language. For basic particle rendering, the geoattribute node will do the job very well. When you combine it with the renderman code node, writing some of your own code, it is limitless.

Buying a Renderman just for rendering particles is overkill in my opinion, unless you are working in a resourceful environment. The free 2 core license can already get you quite far if you use it well.

My 2 cent.

Ronald

rsischy6491
03-30-2011, 01:36 PM
Thanks for the input, also I have limited understanding of the renderman
shading language.

hkspowers
03-30-2011, 09:47 PM
I encourage you to revisit 3delight for rendering particles, maybe ask some question on their forum, there are a bunch of very very helpful guy there. I had some production experience with 3delight/particles before, all I can said is, the major limitation only come from how much I know about the Renderman shading language. For basic particle rendering, the geoattribute node will do the job very well. When you combine it with the renderman code node, writing some of your own code, it is limitless.

Buying a Renderman just for rendering particles is overkill in my opinion, unless you are working in a resourceful environment. The free 2 core license can already get you quite far if you use it well.

My 2 cent.

Ronald

You have some good points, the cost of renderman however is less than you would spend in time to learn rsl to a usable degree. Aside from this fact we are fx tds/artists not shading td's so for us to learn rsl is a bit outside the scope of what we should have to be worried about. We already have so much to learn as fx guys;

Particles
Fluids
Rigid Bodies
Cloth
Hair
Fur
PaintFX
Expressions
Scripting language(s)
General workflow of software
Then as if thats not enough we have to learn those things for several different softwares.

To me learning a shading language shouldn't be necessary nor a priority.
Maya SHOULD RENDER IT"S OWN PARTICLE SYSTEMS! It's just sloppy and unprofessional to not support native what you included in the software. In the end we are in the business of producing images, what good is it if you can sim awesome sims but can't output them?

Second Maya seems to be the only retarded program that can't render all of it's native particle systems. Max, Houdini, XSI all render their own particles.
Renderman for Maya is the best integrated/just works solution out there period.

3Delight is fantastic but does have several drawbacks, like adding the extra rsl nodes and sampler info nodes for sprites etc. Also the deep shads on sprites often have the diagonal line artifact which is due in part to how deep shads work, although in Renderman they seem to have minimized this immensely. Also the cost for 3delight is like 700 or something for more threads ( I have not checked lately) You will need more than 2 threads to render heavy production scenes in a timely manner so for 200 more you could use Renderman which will have less setup time to render your stuff and it will use all of your threads. And Renderman supports fluids.

Both will do the job just a matter of time/money.

mihai112
06-01-2011, 02:14 PM
Hey guys i spent about 2 weeks doing research on how to get similar effects to Krakatoa but for maya and i found a couple of ways.One way it to use Realflow Renderkit for Maya Mentalray ( i didnt see a version for maya 2011, tried a version for 2009) and the way this works if u export from Realflow to maya a cached particle simulation u can import multiple times the same particle and it adds particles at rendertime in a interesting way meaning it doesnt just duplicate de particles it tries to even out the distance between particles.Other ways are of course Renderman(unfortunatly i couldn test it), 3Delight( very simple way of rendering millions of particles with motion blur and deep shadows by using a rib archive file per frame) also soon there will be some plugins for it like Particle Porn or Floyd designed specifically for particles, more info here:
http://www.jupiter-jazz.com/products
A more unusual way to render millions of particles might be to use MASSIVE, a program develloped to for the LOTR movies to be able to create lots and lots of simulations but i havent had a chance to test this yet.
Here are also some videos i found when i was researching this:
Maya 3Delight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUbRJrfasAg&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNUoS4AyGnw&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuXlwtsB_KQ&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VawnwbKBog8&feature=channel_video_title

Realflow Renderkit for Maya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODKuN7vJCTs&feature=channel_video_title

Other Maya particle renders i found interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URm9EMrhWF8&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUkJPp0njJc&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jns4w9rpD_g&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLD5_nlUOlo&feature=channel_video_title

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