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Lazke
03-11-2011, 11:41 AM
Hi,

I'm doing my first polygonal head model (using maya), before I go any further with my model as it is, I'd like some feedback on wether I made some huge edgeflow mistakes, instead ending up with major fixing work later on. So if you see anything wrong, or stuff I could do better, please let me know.

Many thanks in advance!

http://img856.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20110311at123w.png/

ezekiel66
03-14-2011, 10:56 AM
Looks good, I don't see any major issues right now.

Make sure that you have 3 edge loops flowing into the corner of the mouth and distribute them a little better. Take a look at the screenshot: http://img156.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2p.jpg/

Lazke
03-14-2011, 11:30 AM
thanks!

I've never seen much explenation about what to do in the corner of the mount, right now I just let the loops get really close to each other.

Lazke
03-16-2011, 12:01 PM
Been working a bit more on this. However, starting to have some issues. Getting the nose right seems impossible (especially the nostrils) and defining the crease that starts behind the nostril and runs down to next to the corner of the mouth.

Feel free to point out everything that I did wrong :)
http://i55.tinypic.com/s30vn5.png

http://i55.tinypic.com/vevegz.png

http://i52.tinypic.com/o9jpub.png

flatulentFuzz
03-28-2011, 04:02 PM
Well, you've done a pretty decent job so far, but you need to space out your loops a little more, especially around the mouth.
What you've done with the nose is actually pretty good. Only thing I'd suggest is adding another edgeloop along the nose.

The only major thing that I think should be changed is the cheekbone and the way the face looks in the perspective screenshot.
Here's what you can do to improve your model:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19664301/screencap.png

Lazke
03-30-2011, 10:39 AM
thanks! I've continued work on this for a bit, still struggling a bit to get the perspective silhouette right though.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-beYxOeLYrI8/TZLtLq-MZHI/AAAAAAAAAEE/nyekbA9f3Ww/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-03-30+at+10.41.21.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7POVGMiAX3M/TZLtMLw-vtI/AAAAAAAAAEI/exYI38YNPkE/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-03-30+at+10.40.54.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L3t5rEc6p3M/TZLtMVsfEpI/AAAAAAAAAEM/zI1dTl_Dt8E/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-03-30+at+10.40.40.png

flatulentFuzz
04-16-2011, 07:58 PM
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19664301/d8cdg288.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19664301/niiiucry.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19664301/y26f6iio.jpg

You're doing pretty well, but you still need to space out everything a lot. You'll notice you have a lot of rectangular shaped polygons around the mouth, but you generally want squarish polygons in most areas, as far as possible.

Lazke
04-18-2011, 03:40 PM
thanks for all the feedback, I've gotten a bit further, but I just now read that last reply, and will work on getting things more square-ish and less rectangle-ish. Although if I would spread out some parts, I feel like I would lose some of the definition I need in that area ... Is the answer to just add overal more detail?

tnx

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GS9SzN6Jt9k/TaxM5ZclqDI/AAAAAAAAAFI/LZBAtQX4N3Q/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-04-06+at+12.23.34.png

smoothed:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xu06HFfr4vg/TaxM5lBxMuI/AAAAAAAAAFM/PCcd4qtcFmI/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-04-06+at+12.22.58.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SHWzR_pMla4/TaxM5_gTnjI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/D3Id-TzyBo8/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-04-06+at+12.22.39.png

Psyk0
04-18-2011, 06:11 PM
Personally i wouldnt spread out areas that define "sharp" planes of the face, ie brow ridge, side of the forehead, lips etc. As long as you have the proper supporting loops, you should be fine.

Lazke
04-18-2011, 07:08 PM
So you're not supposed to smooth it at the end (3 key in maya) because thats why I ws putting some edges closer to each in order to control the smooth. How is it usually done?

tnx

Lazke
04-27-2011, 10:02 AM
I moved on to the ear. god is that a complex shape! still quite happy with my resulting topology. But running into some issues stitching it to the head. I've added some extra loops on top and in the back of the head to support the loops comming out of the ear in the back, but the front edge is giving me issues. it has much more detail then my head has in that space. Also around the top and bottom of the ear, I get some funky stuff when smoothing it, don't know if I have to fix that, I dont have any pinching or anything, and it looks nice and smooth.

For the front edge, I think I should perhaps merge some detail together on the ear, and add some loops on my head that run towards the mouth. but if I do that, I have to add more overal detail I think, in order to keep my loops spread out evenly ...

anyways, on to the screenshots!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AXlGnXbdyRI/TbfWmRThsXI/AAAAAAAAAF4/mNOlKFBh5NA/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-04-27+at+10.31.26.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2hD9ek1-q9g/TbfWmk0QrcI/AAAAAAAAAF8/XARO9pKGZKM/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-04-27+at+10.30.50.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-D9QZleXe32w/TbfWm9B82mI/AAAAAAAAAGA/ZDvEDAXgFlU/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-04-27+at+10.30.32.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-chsfW0Y4RgA/TbfWlEZYSJI/AAAAAAAAAFo/1NBxWaw0fi0/s1600/Screen+shot+2011-04-27+at+10.34.02.png

Psyk0
04-27-2011, 04:47 PM
Congrats on getting this far, one last hurdle before it's completed!

The ear has a good shape but its geometry could be optimized before attaching to the head, let the subdivision algorithm average your curves instead of adding to many loops on the cage.

Once you are done optimizing, ask yourself if some of your loops could be "poled" back into the ear.

Your edges are nice and clean, considering the amount of geo running in that crammed space, but in anatomy this gives a very plastic / rigid look, you have to play with the tightness of the edges to get rid of that look, vary the tightness according to real life.

Also the triangular fossa is missing in your model:
http://www.acumedico.com/discus/messages/21/547.jpg

Keep it up.

Lazke
05-04-2011, 09:20 AM
tnx, I added in the triangular fossa (actually learning the correct anatomical names for each crevice on the human head is kind of a nice sideeffect of doing this :D)

and I added in the ear to the head. I tried sticking to quads, but in the end, some triangles snuck in that I didnt notice ... Also, the adding in job isnt the neatest in the world, but it smooths out ok, so Im ok with it, for now. Also I have no clue on how I could do it better.

Anyways, I've been breaking my head and filling half a sketchbook with loops trying to figure out how to get rid of these triangles... perhaps of you experienced minds can help me fix this stuff. I know it's not super important, but Im a bit perfectionist this way (not always a good thing)

http://i51.tinypic.com/2j41v86.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/wkpwqv.png

many thanks in advance

Any other critique is always welcome, feel free to bash the living **** out of me, always happy to know what Im doing wrong.

Regards,

Lazke
05-25-2011, 09:39 AM
perhaps an update on this head:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KO9SW7o1gts/Tdy_bn_I-oI/AAAAAAAAAG0/FD4LbdQyZJs/s1600/head_render_cropped.jpg

not happy about the material, and the material on my eyes is waaaay off. Can't seem to get it right though.

I feel as Im lacking on the creating material skills front, and gonna try and find some awesome tutorials, perhaps some subsurface stuff, so much to learn ....

Psyk0
05-26-2011, 01:53 AM
Altho your tris arent causing visible artifacts once texture is applied , watch starting @ 3:10 for some ideas about removing triangles:
http://youtu.be/k_S1INdEmdI

You've got a good start with this, all you need to do now is do some improvement passes.

First you should read these tutorials about drawing the facial features:
http://www.stanprokopenko.com/blog/2009/07/draw-lips/

&

Helpful edgeloops examples for the mouth (and the whole face):
http://www.phungdinhdung.org/Studies_paper/Realistic_face_modeling.shtm

The lip corners:
they should not end in such a sharp triangular shape. When the mouth is closed, picture an "O" shape folded in half. Our mouth corners are pushed in a bit, since the flesh and muscles of the mouch are draped over the teeth "cylinder":

This should give you some ideas to fix the topology/shape
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/mouth_tutorial/mouth.asp

Shape of the eyes:
Do not shape them as if they were symmetrical, the shape of the eyelids changes depending on the orientation of the eye itself and how it pushes the flesh, also it looks to me as if they are lacking depth into the eyesocket, they're too far forward.

Shape of the nose:
It's a bit tricky to represent all planes of the nose with regular polygons, but try to break the areas into hard / soft transitions, to help sell the viewer there is bone structure underneath the flesh, not just one big mass of round flesh.

Shape of the cheekbones / eyesocket
Some of the problem is caused by the lack of eyesocket depth as i commented earlier, but also, pay attention to how the silhouette of the face reads compared to something like these:

http://kreatedbykrause.blogspot.com/2011/02/drawing-planes-of-head.html
The difference in light and dark should give you a feel for the depth of the features, as well as the silhouette.

For the texturing, i can only offer a few pointers...
The eyes look off because they are too white, only the brightest spot of the eye should be "pure white" the rest is still shaded like a sphere would, except the white does have some gloss to it so keep that in mind. The other thing that's obvious is the specular map, the forehead is too bright and uniform....

This should help you get the basics of texturing / rendering skin
http://www.ten24.info/index.php/making-of-the-patient/

Lazke
05-26-2011, 09:15 AM
Much appreciated! really helpful post, so much to study still :D

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