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ShaderOp
01-21-2011, 11:39 PM
I've noticed a discussion (http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=44222;start=0) going on in our second most beloved SI forum, XSI Base, in which this was the opening salvo: I feel Softimage users are a bit snobby.
We only use and post in SI dedicated forums such as XSIBASE and SI Mailing list.
Iíve asked Maya users and they only seem to post on the more general sites.

Can we make an effort to stop centralizing SI related information like announcements, wip and even general troubleshooting issues.

This will in turn popularize SI and make this centralized site even more popular.

So donít just post here, at the same time try to post on the more general sites.
The cynic in me thinks that it's unfair to put the burden of popularizing SI on the community when Autodesk itself doesn't seem to bother. But still I think there's some truth to the quote above. I wouldn't go as far as calling it snobbishness, but more like reclusiveness. A certain "keep calm and carry on" attitude that is probably a bit on the unhealthy side.

Would love to hear your thoughts on the subject.

Hirazi
01-22-2011, 09:59 AM
I find it very interesting to take into consideration who wrote the original post you're quoting. The statement gets slightly weirder once you realize it was written by Manny Papamanos - Graphics Support Specialist @ Autodesk Softimage.

The cynic in me thinks that it's unfair to put the burden of popularizing SI on the community when Autodesk itself doesn't seem to bother.
QFA. As we all know the Area itself is probably the best way to give a totally and utterly wrong impression to new users. If you point new users to the alternatives like this place, XSIBase and si-community or some local language webforum dedicated to Softimage they would definitively get a better picture than the one they get from the Area alone.
I think your assesment that the Softimage community isn't "snobby" as such, but "reclusive" is spot on. But why would users venture out into the world, if the cave they live in is so cozy? The main thing we should work on, is keeping our own cave tidy and clean & keeping an open friendly mind towards newcomers, when they need to hide from the occasional mammoth.
(Sorry, the metaphor got slightly out of hand.) I think we - as a community - can work on our social skills to make newcomers feel more at home, but this doesn't mean we have to leave our home (cave) for it...
;)

TheRazorsEdge
01-22-2011, 12:47 PM
Isn't the whole issue to a large part due to a smaller user base and the usual fanboy-mentality, which can be found in every app-centric community? I mean lots more people appear to be using ie Max and Maya, hence they will be more spread out everywhere across general sites. I also find it interesting that exclusive Max- and Maya-users especially regularely appear to sport a very aggressive attitude towards exclusive users of other apps, probably furthering reclusiveness of smaller user communities even more.

And as far as the "cozy cave" mentality of all fanboys regardless of "app-affiliation" goes, my advice would be to get out into the sun some more, mingle with others and enjoy the diversity. Dont try to murder the philosophers pointing the way towards the cave entrance and into the open! ;)

Cheers!

Hirazi
01-22-2011, 02:00 PM
Well, the only thing I want to add, is that my original cave wasn't meant as a home for fanboys as such. My lame "cosy cave" metaphor has more to do with finding like-minded people, getting problems fixed (because of the like-minded people) and so on.
I personally think Avid|Softimage rather liked the "snobby" forums as they kept the flame alive, when there really wasn't all that much going on for good old XSI. I mean they opened their own dedicated forum at one point. And now we are "blamed" because we tend to keep on sitting in our little nice cave, where we can find everything we want? I mean we even have fire... (even we still cannot render it properly) :)
(Again, the metaphor is somewhat lame, so again, sorry!)

ShaderOp
01-22-2011, 07:27 PM
I mean we even have fire... (even we still cannot render it properly)
Funny, sad, and true. Well played, my man. Well played :)

I remember Manny being an active contributor on the old Softimage|NET site long before both he and the site were assimilated into the Borg, and he always came across as a nice, helpful, and all around decent guy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I agree that this rallying cry feels a bit hypocritical coming from an Autodesk employee, I wouldn't dismiss Manny as a mere Autodesk shill.

Anyways, one of the perks I got from joining iAnimate was having a carte blanche access to most Autodesk products. So earlier today I thought I would check out Max and see how that old dog was doing since the last time I tried it.

What struck me the most was the installation wizard. Do you guys know those pictures that whiz by while the progress bar crawls along? The ones that must, by federal and international law, incude that picture of the subscription advantage guy with his arms stretched and eyes looking towards heaven, thankful for the bounty that was bestowed upon him through the miracles of the subscription center? In addition to that piece of cliched stock photo there were other, fantastic works of CG. There was a picture of a stylized female character that looked like she's made of paper mache. Another was of a parrot made of items of clothing. There were others, but those are the ones that stuck in my mind.

Now compare that to the same installation wizard for Softimage. I can only remember one picture from it, which was of a little, adorable, cartoony witch clad in purple. Excellent work, but no where near the same level as the pictures from the Max installation wizard.

The point I'm trying to make is that there could very well be a lot of incredible CG work being done in Softimage everyday, but it's very hard to find any of it. So I wish for the more capable members of the SI community to strut their stuff more often.

luceric
01-23-2011, 01:26 AM
The premise of that thread doesn't make sense to me.. there are dedicated forums/mailing list for pretty much all products, Silo, Modo, lightwave, Houdini. That's not a problem, it's wonderful. Maya has always left things to Highend3D - who eventually killed the maya mailing list! - and I'm not sure about the official Max place.. In any case, the hobbyists, students,etc, using educational or using torrent copies of software vastly choose 3DS Max and Maya, and posts about it on forums such as cgtalk. There are so many thousands of users of these products, even split between dozens of forums there are still tons of people chatting and showing stuff. That's just the way the numbers are, I think it's odd to suggest that the community is "shooting itself in the foot". That's certainly not an official opinion. Personally, I've been of the opinion that there are too many Softimage forums, dispersing the community.. not to mention that xsibase has technical issues.

ThE_JacO
01-23-2011, 11:35 PM
Funny, sad, and true. Well played, my man. Well played :)

I remember Manny being an active contributor on the old Softimage|NET site long before both he and the site were assimilated into the Borg, and he always came across as a nice, helpful, and all around decent guy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I agree that this rallying cry feels a bit hypocritical coming from an Autodesk employee, I wouldn't dismiss Manny as a mere Autodesk shill.
Manny is all that actually (nice, helpful, enthusiastic and all). I wouldn't interpret what he says on the AD front. Well before and after the acquisition he's always worn a user's hat on his head more often than he had the corporate one on, producing tutorials, commercial and not, and other things.

I disagree with his post, as comparatively speaking I don't find the SI community that snobby, nor any more isolationist than any other software community (and it sure as hell doesn't lynch and lash naysayers a fraction as hard as some other ones).

I wouldn't call it hypocritical as I don't think he was posting as an AD employee, but after years spent on so many sites and mailing lists for so many different softwares, I would say it probably oversimplifies matters and reaches the wrong conclusions.

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