how to make a diamond??

[nurpz]

the diamond itseft isn't important,simply raytracy and play around the falloff settings.
a good envirment is the key,don't just darg a pic in the envirment slot and render...you need to setup thngs in the proper position with proper textures:bounce:

[gogofast]

thanks, that's a good suggestion. But i dont know how and why?
and what is the diamond's IOR. How it reflect and refract??
some of the physics of diamond affect the result of rendering.
So could you tell me the physics of diamond, and how to make the materials of diamond in your experience. Thank you, my dear Nurpz.

[sinistergfx]

Here's a table of the IOR's of a bunch of different materials, you might find it handy:

Acetone 1.36
Actinolite 1.618
Agalmatoite 1.550
Agate 1.544
Agate, Moss 1.540
Air 1.0002926
Alcohol 1.329
Alexandrite 1.745
Aluminum 1.44
Amber 1.546
Amblygonite 1.611
Amethyst 1.544
Anatase 2.490
Andalusite 1.641
Anhydrite 1.571
Apatite 1.632
Apophyllite 1.536
Aquamarine 1.577
Aragonite 1.530
Argon 1.000281
Asphalt 1.635
Augelite 1.574
Axinite 1.675
Azurite 1.730
Barite 1.636
Barytocalcite 1.684
Benitoite 1.757
Benzene 1.501
Beryl 1.577
Beryllonite 1.553
Brazilianite 1.603
Bromine (liq) 1.661
Bronze 1.18
Brownite 1.567
Calcite 1.486
Calspar 1.486
Cancrinite 1.491
Carbon Dioxide (gas) 1.000449
Carbon Disulfide 1.628
Carbon Tetrachloride 1.460
Cassiterite 1.997
Celestite 1.622
Cerussite 1.804
Ceylanite 1.770
Chalcedony 1.530
Chalk 1.510
Chalybite 1.630
Chlorine (gas) 1.000768
Chlorine (liq) 1.385
Chrome Green 2.4
Chrome Red 2.42
Chrome Yellow 2.31
Chromium 2.97
Chrysoberyl 1.745
Chrysocolla 1.500
Chrysoprase 1.534
Citrine 1.550
Clinozoisite 1.724
Cobalt Blue 1.74
Cobalt Green 1.97
Cobalt Violet 1.71
Colemanite 1.586
Copper 1.10
Copper Oxide 2.705
Coral 1.486
Cordierite 1.540
Corundum 1.766
Crocoite 2.310
Crystal 2.00
Cuprite 2.850
Danburite 1.633
Diamond 2.417
Diopside 1.680
Dolomite 1.503
Dumortierite 1.686
Ebonite 1.66
Ekanite 1.600
Elaeolite 1.532
Emerald 1.576
Emerald, Synth flux 1.561
Emerald, Synth hydro 1.568
Enstatite 1.663
Epidote 1.733
Ethanol 1.36
Ethyl Alcohol 1.36
Euclase 1.652
Fabulite 2.409
Feldspar, Adventurine 1.532
Feldspar, Albite 1.525
Feldspar, Amazonite 1.525
Feldspar, Labradorite 1.565
Feldspar, Microcline 1.525
Feldspar, Oligoclase 1.539
Feldspar, Orthoclase 1.525
Fluoride 1.56
Fluorite 1.434
Formica 1.47
Garnet, Almandine 1.760
Garnet, Almandite 1.790
Garnet, Andradite 1.820
Garnet, Demantoid 1.880
Garnet, Grossular 1.738
Garnet, Hessonite 1.745
Garnet, Rhodolite 1.760
Garnet, Spessartite 1.810
Gaylussite 1.517
Glass 1.51714
Glass, Albite 1.4890
Glass, Crown 1.520
Glass, Crown, Zinc 1.517
Glass, Flint, Dense 1.66
Glass, Flint, Heaviest 1.89
Glass, Flint, Heavy 1.65548
Glass, Flint, Lanthanum 1.80
Glass, Flint, Light 1.58038
Glass, Flint, Medium 1.62725
Glycerine 1.473
Gold 0.47
Hambergite 1.559
Hauynite 1.502
Helium 1.000036
Hematite 2.940
Hemimorphite 1.614
Hiddenite 1.655
Howlite 1.586
Hydrogen (gas) 1.000140
Hydrogen (liq) 1.0974
Hypersthene 1.670
Ice 1.309
Idocrase 1.713
Iodine Crystal 3.34
Iolite 1.548
Iron 1.51
Ivory 1.540
Jade, Nephrite 1.610
Jadeite 1.665
Jasper 1.540
Jet 1.660
Kornerupine 1.665
Kunzite 1.655
Kyanite 1.715
Lapis Gem 1.500
Lapis Lazuli 1.61
Lazulite 1.615
Lead 2.01
Leucite 1.509
Magnesite 1.515
Malachite 1.655
Meerschaum 1.530
Mercury (liq) 1.62
Methanol 1.329
Moldavite 1.500
Moonstone, Adularia 1.525
Moonstone, Albite 1.535
Natrolite 1.480
Nephrite 1.600
Nitrogen (gas) 1.000297
Nitrogen (liq) 1.2053
Nylon 1.53
Obsidian 1.489
Olivine 1.670
Onyx 1.486
Opal 1.450
Oxygen (gas) 1.000276
Oxygen (liq) 1.221
Painite 1.787
Pearl 1.530
Periclase 1.740
Peridot 1.654
Peristerite 1.525
Petalite 1.502
Phenakite 1.650
Phosgenite 2.117
Plastic 1.460
Plexiglas 1.50
Polystyrene 1.55
Prase 1.540
Prasiolite 1.540
Prehnite 1.610
Proustite 2.790
Purpurite 1.840
Pyrite 1.810
Pyrope 1.740
Quartz 1.544
Quartz, Fused 1.45843
Rhodizite 1.690
Rhodochrisite 1.600
Rhodonite 1.735
Rock Salt 1.544
Rubber, Natural 1.5191
Ruby 1.760
Rutile 2.62
Sanidine 1.522
Sapphire 1.760
Scapolite 1.540
Scapolite, Yellow 1.555
Scheelite 1.920
Selenium, Amorphous 2.92
Serpentine 1.560
Shell 1.530
Silicon 4.24
Sillimanite 1.658
Silver 0.18
Sinhalite 1.699
Smaragdite 1.608
Smithsonite 1.621
Sodalite 1.483
Sodium Chloride 1.544
Sphalerite 2.368
Sphene 1.885
Spinel 1.712
Spodumene 1.650
Staurolite 1.739
Steatite 1.539
Steel 2.50
Stichtite 1.520
Strontium Titanate 2.410
Styrofoam 1.595
Sulphur 1.960
Synthetic Spinel 1.730
Taaffeite 1.720
Tantalite 2.240
Tanzanite 1.691
Teflon 1.35
Thomsonite 1.530
Tiger eye 1.544
Topaz 1.620
Topaz, Blue 1.610
Topaz, Pink 1.620
Topaz, White 1.630
Topaz, Yellow 1.620
Tourmaline 1.624
Tremolite 1.600
Tugtupite 1.496
Turpentine 1.472
Turquoise 1.610
Ulexite 1.490
Uvarovite 1.870
Variscite 1.550
Vivianite 1.580
Wardite 1.590
Water (gas) 1.000261
Water 100'C 1.31819
Water 20'C 1.33335
Water 35'C (Room temp) 1.33157
Willemite 1.690
Witherite 1.532
Wulfenite 2.300
Zincite 2.010
Zircon, High 1.960
Zircon, Low 1.800
Zirconia, Cubic 2.170

[gogofast]

thanks sinister, this is useful for me.
I addition, have you ever maked diamond in 3d??? Is there any scene files you maked?? If have, could you email me and i want study it.
the diamond have a lot of faces on it, and the surface style affect the result of rendering. I never have a diamond, i dont know how it looks like. So i ask you those questions.
thank you very much.

[Anton Andriesh]

:surprised

[javierdl]

I am sure gogofast totally understands now how to do a diamond, after all your image is self-explanatory, right? :rolleyes:

Seriously now, how about some explanation along with it?

[gogofast]

hi guys, i have done my diamond, and a diamond ring. Thank all of you to help me.
give me advice.
thank you.

[gogofast]

diamond ring

[Anton Andriesh]

how about some explanation along with it?

DrPepperCan, studying object will have better effect then some "do this" explanations. :p It is necessary only to peer and a little to think.

And...
I never have a diamond, i dont know how it looks like

Gogofast, I think you achieved the needed material, remains only to add some caustics, to improve the lightning.

[gogofast]

yes, you are right. I tried to add some caustics, but it taked a very long time to render. Because i need to render a animation, so i canceled caustics. The picture I showed is a frame of the animation. Thank you.
Otherwise I used mental ray. Anton, do you have some advice to reduce rendering time when add caustics using mental ray??

Anton, I saw your attached image of diamond. It's real photograph ? or made by 3d?? Tell me the truth. If it was made in 3ds max, tell me the secrets please.

[Anton Andriesh]

:) It's a photography, real...

Once I solved this kind of problem. I was rendering a scene with very detailed finalRender soft shadows. Because time was limited I make a texture of the shadow and assigned it to the plane where it should be cast (it was no shadow animation in the scene). You can proceed in the same way, but I really don't know how to render ONLY caustics :hmm:

[gogofast]

I will try. What do u think about Finalrender? I never use that tool. thank you very much.

[nurpz]

:)

[gogofast]

QQ£º47068325£¬Ï£ÍûÄཻܶÁ÷¡£:)

[Fade of Light]

LOL

[nurpz]

gogofast:
i use only MSN
nurpz@yahoo.com:)

[Anton Andriesh]

I use fR for more complex light effects, for which there are no standard tools in max, or they take too much time, such as soft shadows, object light, caustics, translucency, global illumination etc.

Check this:

http://www.finalrender.com/finalrender/gal_tech.htm

:buttrock: :airguitar :wip:

[Jynks]

Anton Andriesh can you please go into detaisl about how you got that look.. spesh the coloured highlights in that model...

[lehthanis]

I created several gemstones from the us faceters guild...perhaps this could help you even though it appears you're already done with the diamond.

http://www.usfacetersguild.org/index_designs.shtml

[Jynks]

no... I have made a diamond but it looks crap I think...... I can not seam to get it to work right..

At the moment I am doing it with raytraced materials... with bitmap enviroment maps 100 refraction, 100 transparent and I think it was 20ish reflection..... but it just dosn't have that nice look that I was hoping for...

[Jynks]

no... I have made a diamond but it looks crap I think...... I can not seam to get it to work right..

At the moment I am doing it with raytraced materials... with bitmap enviroment maps 100 refraction, 100 transparent and I think it was 20ish reflection..... but it just dosn't have that nice look that I was hoping for...

PS - the faceting guild.. thanks for that link!!


Figuring out how to make reallyt nice looking gems is very important to me as I am doing work for poker machiens and aparently I will be asked to make zillions of diffent jewels and gems.

I was thinking that I may need to buy VRAY or Brazil? Whitch one do you guys think may be better?

[3dsmax5]

no... I have made a diamond but it looks crap I think...... I can not seam to get it to work right..

At the moment I am doing it with raytraced materials... with bitmap enviroment maps 100 refraction, 100 transparent and I think it was 20ish reflection..... but it just dosn't have that nice look that I was hoping for...
Make sure you have 2-sided enabled.
Reflection and Refraction should both be at 100%. You control the reflection by using fresnel falloff with the same IOR as the refraction, 2.41 is good.
The environment, lighting and modeling is also very important.
Diamonds are usually cut to give maximum reflection, so check your model.

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

Part of the problem with the gem renderings and the raytrace material is that it doesn't support dispersion (or the refraction of light into the color spectrum based on the IOR of the object). Dispersion is what gives you the extra RGB colors in diamonds. I know that there are some dispersion shaders for Brazil, and MR (check the MR material thread in the resource section). I'm not sure about fR and Vray as I dont use them.

Hope this helps,
-Eric

[3dsmax5]

Part of the problem with the gem renderings and the raytrace material is that it doesn't support dispersion (or the refraction of light into the color spectrum based on the IOR of the object). Dispersion is what gives you the extra RGB colors in diamonds. I know that there are some dispersion shaders for Brazil, and MR (check the MR material thread in the resource section). I'm not sure about fR and Vray as I dont use them.

Hope this helps,
-Eric
There's a good way to fake it. You render out several shots with slightly different IOR, then composite them together in the RGB channels or something like that.

[lehthanis]

I've done 4 gems from the faceters guild...I found its a lot easier to build them by creating a simple box primitive, and then deleting all the faces so there's NO geometry, but yer still in sub-object mode.

Then go to vertex mode and create vertices for the outer edge of the table in top view (usually you can just build one fourth or one half and use mirror) and then create the faces for that individually. Then build the vertices for the bezel, and in left view slide them down (-z) to where they should go and then create faces for those. Then you can do a shift-drag downward on the outer edges of the bezel to create the girdle. Adjust if the gem has an odd girdle.

The pavilion and culet usually take several rings of vertices and then create faces for each of them to match the diagram.

The hardest part of gemcutting in max is making sure that the four or more sided facets are flat because even though you can hide the edge that makes it tri's you can't render it in facets without them being treated as separate faces...if its flat though (planar) you should have no problem.

These are the gems I created all piled up randomly: http://www.deviantart.com/view/3074532/

Of course this was done way before I had even the most basic of grasps on refracting and raytracing and even GI. I shoudl probably go back and spruce that scene up a bit eh?

Edit: the diamond is one of these: http://www.usfacetersguild.org/gem_designs/srb_variations/ The blue stone is a heart shaped cut: http://www.usfacetersguild.org/gem_designs/sweetheart/ The green one is an emerald cut (I can't find the diagram) The red one is an emulation of the red opal from that cheesy horror flick The Wishmaster. And I did the pentacle for giggles with an added pentagram inside at http://www.deviantart.com/view/2731295/ (http://www.usfacetersguild.org/gem_designs/pentacle/)

Hope this helps...maybe I shoudl do a faceting tutorial?

[Jynks]

Building the gem itself isn't a problem.... well I am happy with the gem and the way of constructing it. I think it is in the materials...

The RGB channel mix method to fake despersion is only good for still images.... if you use it on a animation I found that the coloured parts look "stuck" inside the gem, as if the gem has coloured objects inside it.... I thought it was in fact making the image worse.

You control the reflection by using fresnel falloff with the same IOR
Can you go into more detail here?

and MR (check the MR material thread in the resource section)
I thought I had, in fact I had no idea that you could do disperision in MR. I'll look though the thred again see if I can find some more info.

[JeffPatton]

Thought I'd give it a shot as well. I think the only thing missing is the dispersion (I never had much luck with that MR dispersion shader).

Anyway, I've put my sample animation up on my gallery page:
http://www.jeffpatton.net/Gallery1.htm

One day I'll figure out how to make a flash preloader....I don't know what it is about flash that just doesn't "click" with me. I can figure out MR, but stupid preloader eludes me...go figure. :argh:

Jeff

[lehthanis]

Oh wow Jeff...I MUST have those settings, that looks awesome to me..

[JeffPatton]

The scene consists of the following (MAX7):

One MR spotlight with area light enabled. I enabled "show icon in renderer" as well. I set the area type to rectangle and made the size large enough to give me a nice white highlight. Be sure to increase the samples else, you'll have spotty shadows (I used U=10, V=10)

The diamonds started life as an NGON. Then I converted that to editable poly and extruded the edges.

The material is simple enough. It's just the glass (physics_phen) material with an IOR of 2.417. I did also increase the phong coefficient to 200.0 (this seemed to give a little more specular whiteness). Everything else was left at it's default settings.

I used a nice indoor HDRI for the environment.

Enable caustics. I used a low photon sample number (10), this creates fairly sharp caustics. I have the number of caustic photons per light set to 25000

Finally, enable the glare shader. This gives the glowing specular.

That's it (minus the very quick reactor simulation setup)

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I also had an inverse square decay on the MR spotlight.

[lehthanis]

I'm only using Max6.

But for the Glass material...is it light persistance or outside light persistance that I woudl want to change to say make a sapphire or emerald? Going to go try to render now and see...thanx a lot!!

[lehthanis]

Yup, I'm lost. Whats this inverse square decay thing? I've been working with mental ray for nigh about a week now...off and on...so its very early for me, and I'm not very physic minded yet either..I've been merely a low-poly modeller up until recently. Sorry bout that...
Oh and what about the indirect illumination settings in the render setup panel?

EDIT: Specifically what are you using for GI Photons and Energy? but any other settings would be helpful. And how long did it take to render?

[JeffPatton]

"But for the Glass material...is it light persistance or outside light persistance that I woudl want to change to say make a sapphire or emerald? Going to go try to render now and see...thanx a lot!!"
I believe you would change the light persistance.

"Yup, I'm lost. Whats this inverse square decay thing?"
The 3dsmax help file will explain it. But in a nutshell, it just gives the light some natual decay. Instead of being a solid intensity light forever.

"EDIT: Specifically what are you using for GI Photons and Energy? but any other settings would be helpful. And how long did it take to render?"
GI & FG are disabled. So you only need to focus on the caustic photons. I mentioned the settings in my previous post. Render time was less than a minute per frame (at 340x255).

[lehthanis]

Thats weird...my decay only gives me a spinner with numbers (default 2.0) although the help file specifies otherwise. I checked under indirect illumination rollout of the light and the renderer.

Thank you so much for the help thus far!

I must be doing somethign wrong, or have somethign extra going on, but I can't nail it down...because with just one diamond in my scene with the settings you gave me I'm about 30 minutes into a single frame.

[lehthanis]

Ok...working fine now...I think...I still haven't gotten the little sparklies to show up on the table like in Jeff's example. I got them in my single diamond test render, but they're not showing up in this render...dunno why. This took 12 minutes to render...all 4 materials are glass(physics_phen) and set per Jeff's instructions.

mr Area Spot is set at 2.0 multiplier and its using global settings with a 2.0 multiplier on caustics photons (rest are 1.0), icon in renderer, height:40, width:40, rectangle, U:10, V:10

Indirect illumination rollout on render scene dialog: caustics enabled only, 10 samples.
Global light Props; Energy: 100000, Caustic Photons: 60000, Decay: 2, GI Photons: 0
(I raised the photons thinking I didn't have enough photons to shine the twinkly lights on the table?)

Renderer Tab; min samples: 1/4, max samples: 4
Rendering Algorithm rollout Reflections, Refractions, Sum all set to 6.

Using St. Peters basilica as environment HDR set to spherical.

Here's before and after glare (Glare spread was set too high, but I'll lower it for next render)

http://www.fantaseum.com/arcana/screenshots/pileofgems1.jpg
http://www.fantaseum.com/arcana/screenshots/pileofgems2.jpg

[JeffPatton]

Definitely turn down the glare a bit, but I do see some caustics happening off to the sides on yours. Maybe the multiplier is just turned down too much (and the spotlight is too intense).

Anywho, here's a few screen grabs from mine that may or may not clear things up any better:
http://www.jeffpatton.net/cg-post/mr-diamond-1.jpg

and

http://www.jeffpatton.net/cg-post/mr-diamond-2.jpg

Jeff

[lehthanis]

Ahhh, there's the inverse square...I was looking in the wrong place (and the help file seems to be showing the wrong image or something...Or I'm just blind.

Anyways, I see a major difference that may be something and thats the fact that your spot is coming from straight above aiming down...gonna try that next. And I have everythign else set up as close to yours as possible since I'm on max 6 and its a little different.

Rendering now, thanx Jeff!

[Jynks]

Nice tips guys.. unfortunatly it is the weekend over here and I do not have a copy of 7 at home only 6 (7 is at work) and so I can not test these tips out.

Still I think you have given me a few good ideas to try out... pity the animation was due on friday so this info will have to go into the next one :) When I get back to work on friday I'll post the image I ended up wit h alone with a test using Jeffs sugestions..

Thanks again guys...

[sirpetr]

thanx for tips, but can you help me what am I doing wrong, when there occurs mental ray warnings :

RCGI 0.3 error 361053: no photons stored after emitting 1000000 photons (canceling emission job)
RCGI 0.3 warn 362004: no photons stored after emitting 10000 photons

[Jynks]

Here is a gif of a little bit of animation, nothing fancy just a spin... as you can see the diamond just dosn't look right... I am not sure how to fix this.. I tried the stuff in the thred but I need to make the diamond less see though somehow, so not so much of the ring shows though.

http://users.on.net/~jynks/cgtalk/Diamonds/Untitled-1.gif

[lehthanis]

sirptr - make sure your photon emitters are aimed at at least something. If they don't hit somethign they'll fly on forever...put a ground plane or a sphere around your scene or something to catch stray photons.

Jynx, looks decent. But your first problem is that there's really no girdle on your diamond. Look up girdle and you'll see what I mean. Also the cut is a bit shallow so you get poor refraction. as for the shader, it honestly looks like a standard material with transparency. what does your shader tree look like? Check Jeff Pattons tutorial at http://www.jeffpatton.net/MR-Caustics101.htm for some excellent help.

[Jynks]

as for the shader, it honestly looks like a standard material with transparency.
Fully... that is exactly the problem.... all the diffrent materials I ave tried all end up looking like glass.... when I get home I'll post some of the materials I have been using in a mat for advise..


Thanks again cgtalk for all the diamond help btw.

[lehthanis]

A diamond basically IS glass with a higher IOR. if you set the IOR to 2.417 in a glass(physics_phen) material, that will look fine as long as you have an environment and lighting for it to refract.

Also, use a glare camera shader for the best effect.

[Jynks]

ok... I am faily new to these sss materials......


With the pglass material, how do you set an enviroment for it to reflect/reflact... I can not see a place to put a image map... I can assign it to the global enviroment back (the one that renders but do I really need to do uit that way?

[lehthanis]

Yes. first of all though you shoudln't be using SSS for diamonds really, just the regular glass material will be fine. And yes set the HDR file to the environment slot and put in a ground plane and a light and the program will do most of the rest.

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