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View Full Version : VFS-Too much money for little opportunity


MissOptimist
12-20-2010, 12:56 AM
Did you guys see this review?
http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/makeup-design-for-film-television/too-much-money-for-too-little-opportunity

I guess it doesn't really matter which school you go to, you may not end up getting a job right away after graduation. :shrug:At the end, it really depends on you, and how much people you know who can hook you up with a job

KrzysztofFus
12-20-2010, 03:27 AM
Um. That article was talking about makeup... Of course doing makeup for movies is a damn near impossible field to break into. Regardless. I think it just depends on how good you are. I mean no ones gonna hook up someone with a job right out of school unless they are really good. Students need to accept that. Sure networking is important but you need to be great first.

MissOptimist
12-22-2010, 02:28 AM
Um. That article was talking about makeup... Of course doing makeup for movies is a damn near impossible field to break into. Regardless. I think it just depends on how good you are. I mean no ones gonna hook up someone with a job right out of school unless they are really good. Students need to accept that. Sure networking is important but you need to be great first.

Just like doing 3d for movies(Avatar, Iron Man, etc.) is a damn near impossible field to break into. I think you can be good but if you don't know too much people who can 'hook' you up, you're screwed. Rarely anybody gets a job by sending out demo reels. You gotta be in good relationships with some people who have connections. There have been plenty of people who had 'ok' or 'decent' work but managed to get a job in their field but that's because they knew people who are either best friends with the boss or the art director.

KrzysztofFus
12-22-2010, 03:36 AM
I disagree. If your really good its not that hard to find work in 3d. Sure you might not work at Pixar or ILM and work on movies but if your really good you can easily start freelancing in a commercial market. There's still alot of jobs open in this industry. But studios will only hire you if your excellent.

All the jobs I ever got was just by sending my demo reel out.
I've even interviewed with Sony Imageworks and Bluesky Studios before.

And networking is really easy. As easy as finding someone who works at a studio you want to work for and asking them advice on how you can improve your demo reel to cater to that studio. Just email them. Tell them, I am ______ and I want to one day work at your studio in your department. Could you please take a look at my reel and critique it for me? Thank you.

I've done this. Even though they are busy they will usually respond.

All studios are different. I know for a fact that BlueSky wants a modeling reel thats completely different than what Sony would like to see for a potential hire. You just need to track these people down and ask questions.

Schools like VFS are good because industry professionals teach the classes and you can have someone at your disposal who can seriously critique your work in comparison to other work already out in the field.

MissOptimist
12-27-2010, 10:48 AM
KrzysztofFus (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=364376), do you pay all of your bills by freelancing? I mean do you make a living strictly by doing 3d?

ShadowM8
12-28-2010, 07:04 AM
I think you can be good but if you don't know too much people who can 'hook' you up, you're screwed. Rarely anybody gets a job by sending out demo reels. You gotta be in good relationships with some people who have connections.
While there is no question having a good network is important, most of the time good artist fail at finding a job because they dont actually work on getting it. It takes as much effort as making the demo in the first place.
Ièm always buffeled when I speak with artists looking for a job and they have no clue who in town is hiring and whats really going on in thier biz. Iève always made it my business to check ads one a week just fyi... regadless whether I have a job right now or not. Its a good habbit. If you have a company you want to work for follow it, get to know the HR and the studio. Find out who has similar positions that youd like to have, get to know them online if they are active. Sometimes they might leave for another job, and usualy youd know before any job post goes up giving you the opportunity to apply first and maybe get a recommendation. Its all about the effort you put into it! And trust me the studios do care if they see you really want to work there and are working hard to get your chance. Chances are theyll give you one!

ColinKennedy
01-16-2011, 02:30 PM
Hello, ShadowM8, I'm not very good at abbreviations and acronyms, could you please explain to me what a HR is? I'm trying to get an internship at Blue Sky Studios so I was hoping to try to hone in on their activities as best as possible as you have said.

KrzysztofFus
01-16-2011, 04:58 PM
Hello, ShadowM8, I'm not very good at abbreviations and acronyms, could you please explain to me what a HR is? I'm trying to get an internship at Blue Sky Studios so I was hoping to try to hone in on their activities as best as possible as you have said.


The only internships BlueSky offers is production assistant internships. Also you need to provide your own transportation and housing.

leigh
01-16-2011, 05:36 PM
Just like doing 3d for movies(Avatar, Iron Man, etc.) is a damn near impossible field to break into. I think you can be good but if you don't know too much people who can 'hook' you up, you're screwed. Rarely anybody gets a job by sending out demo reels.

Not true, not true and not true.

The key is simply to be good at what you do. If you aren't, then no amount of contacts is going to make a difference, nor will it make a difference if you went to some well known school. If your reel is crap, you'll never get a job. Sure, there aren't a hell of a lot of junior roles available in studios but nor are there a hell of a lot of graduates who are actually good enough to get those jobs. That's the harsh reality here. It's not that these fields are "damn near impossible" to break into, it's that the majority of people trying to break into them aren't good enough to actually get the jobs, and most of them will never be. This may sound really bleak, elitist and pessimistic, but it's the brutal reality of the situation. Most CG courses do an abysmal job of preparing students for work readiness, and many of those students should never have studied the course in the first place, but were accepted simply because they paid the fees. Being a good CG artist is a combination of both artistic and technical skill, both of which can be learned through hard work which many simply aren't disciplined enough to do.

100% of people who spend years looking for jobs without success are not good enough to be applying for those jobs. Fact. The sooner they realise this, the sooner they can remedy the situation. Sadly, many people in this position are either blind to this reality, instead believing that they're simply having a long run of bad luck (google the Dunning-Kruger effect here), or are aware that they're not good enough but are too lazy or stubborn to do anything about it.

In summary: anyone can get a job in these fields if they work hard enough to get their skills to the right level.

chien
01-16-2011, 06:46 PM
100% of people who spend years looking for jobs without success are not good enough to be applying for those jobs. Fact. The sooner they realise this, the sooner they can remedy the situation. Sadly, many people in this position are either blind to this reality, instead believing that they're simply having a long run of bad luck (google the Dunning-Kruger effect here), or are aware that they're not good enough but are too lazy or stubborn to do anything about it.


Leigh

don't mean to sound like twisting anything here, just want to understand this, i've experience the part where many fresh graduate try many times to apply for job, so far just only in my own country, some of them get the job some of them fail in those past years(including me) but then I realised lately when I attend any CG art convention, they got people who sometimes do recruitment on the spot at their booth and provide very little information about works of their own company or none at all, just last year only when I seen codmasters studio in one of the youth comic conventions, they hand out booklets with samples of their work as well as information what they are looking for in any application and even brought their own games for people to try out. Just to curious, do you think this may be one of their reasons that can cause not only job application to be rejected but also one of other reasons for those who are job searching to be unemployed for awhile? sory my bad english >_____<

leigh
01-16-2011, 08:51 PM
Chien, I don't really understand what your question is :( Are you asking if people are failing to get jobs because they don't understand what the criteria is?

MissOptimist
01-22-2011, 05:41 PM
Oh yeah I agree with you leigh, if someone's demo reel is crap, nobody is every going to hire him/her. But if the demo reel is decent but not really the best out there, that person with an okay demo reel will get a job as long as he or she has an abundance of contacts(or have good relationships with people in the industry)

leigh
01-22-2011, 05:50 PM
I totally disagree with that.

MissOptimist
01-22-2011, 05:52 PM
I've seen it happen with small companies :)
I don't know about the bigger ones

leigh
01-22-2011, 07:37 PM
I've never seen it happen at any studios, and I've worked at small ones, medium ones and big ones. It may well happen in corporate environments, but in this industry, your reel is your ticket to a job. It doesn't matter how many contacts you have, if your reel doesn't kick ass, you're not going to get a job. This is particularly true in the "3d for movies" (as you said) field, where you absolutely have to demonstrate that you'll be a skilled asset to the team. I've never, ever seen any kind of nepotism with regards to getting jobs in this industry.

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