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hku64
10-11-2003, 01:58 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/galleryimages/28152/pushelle_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/galleryimages/28152/pushelle.jpg)

Hi~^^ :wavey:
Desire to do all joyful art works.
Be all happy^^*


http://www.xcomicx.com/animation/bigpushelle.jpg
http://www.xcomicx.com/animation/pu-wire.jpg

<edited by Tito: Top image replaced with one hosted on CGNetworks gallery to prevent dead links.>

jCoops
10-11-2003, 02:05 AM
:buttrock:
thats some truly impressive stuff.
Love it.
Good Work hku64:beer:

bigbad
10-11-2003, 02:21 AM
GOD! No its you hku64.

Again perfect. :applause:

eddy-3ddy
10-11-2003, 02:35 AM
man, what are you gonna try? To get on the front page? One thing I can ensure you. You are getting on the front page... And if you don't get on the front page or the gallery, you get at least an interview on cgnetworks.com :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Goatfuzz
10-11-2003, 03:02 AM
Beautiful as always! :beer:

greengold
10-11-2003, 03:21 AM
AWESOME Picture! Great detail, and great female character.
You ROCK!:applause:

Slurry
10-11-2003, 03:22 AM
Fantastic stuff!!
I really like the gloves, buckles and straps.

Could you post some large images? ;)

Quester99
10-11-2003, 03:23 AM
man.... she looks AWESOME! I'm lovin her eyes and all those chains around her. I like her hair and all that cloth she has. She looks really good, to say the least :)

oxyg3n
10-11-2003, 03:37 AM
Great Job, I really like it

singularity2006
10-11-2003, 03:41 AM
omG!!! :eek: THAT IS SOME CRAZILY NICE FORM!!!!!! My only nitpick is that her looks very thick and doesn't have a natural enough flow. But holy geeeez, WOWIE! If only she weren't only CG.... :shrug:

got some wires???

delly
10-11-2003, 03:42 AM
Woaaahhhh :buttrock: :thumbsup:

yangmiemie
10-11-2003, 03:47 AM
:eek: wow good!

Apollux
10-11-2003, 03:49 AM
So far, every art that hku64 has posted has found it's way into the gallery... I can see that comming this time also.

You are certainly setting a record extremly hard to break.

About her? Love the style... I wonder, the tree of your super babes are done with the same style, are they from a game? movie or series of still pictures?

:applause:

uucww
10-11-2003, 03:59 AM
:applause: :applause: :applause:

Salaadin
10-11-2003, 04:01 AM
love the whole thing ,,juat amazing...:drool:

Shinova
10-11-2003, 04:13 AM
That is beyond awesome. I worship thee.

Hexodam
10-11-2003, 04:16 AM
wow amazing and I have a new background thanks to you :D

how about a wireframe and maybe anon textured render? :=)

JayMan2889
10-11-2003, 04:16 AM
great, lovely detail in the metal, and the model ;)

DreamcastDC
10-11-2003, 04:23 AM
Nice :)

mracer
10-11-2003, 04:25 AM
:D :eek: :D :eek: Awsome work!!

Ac0rN
10-11-2003, 04:33 AM
God bless you , you got a F****** Gift :thumbsup:

paradisio
10-11-2003, 04:53 AM
Amazing is all that comes to mind, I like everything

I am kinda reminded by the final fantasy games for some reason though. That not being a bad thing in my opinion. :P

efoo
10-11-2003, 04:57 AM
Lov ur work! it is awesome!!!!:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Dave Black
10-11-2003, 05:10 AM
Got fanboy replies much?

First off, your modeling is very nice. I'd advice some work on te textures. They come of a bit on the muddy side, and really scream "CG". Perhaps you could reduce the specularity(or add some bump mapping or a spec map to further breakup the spec).

Personally, I don't care much for the subject matter, but it is rather nicely rendered overall. Lighting is pretty good, though a bit flat.

Again, my overall impression is simply that the textures/shaders/materials are pulling the piece down a bit, and I think the piece deserves a bit more tweaking.

-3DZ

:D

P_T
10-11-2003, 05:31 AM
i agree with the lighting, that dark blue light is a bit distracting on her. about the texture, i think that suit the stylised look on the character. i saw a book on digital idols (mostly japanese) and they all have similar sort of look texture wise... maybe that's the popular style around that region?

onlooker
10-11-2003, 05:33 AM
It's hard to be objective, or criticize something I just turned into my desktop picture.
One of the things that I like the most is the females body proportions. Nothing is overdone, or underemphasized. Like huge breasts with a tiny waist, and a bubble butt that remains small, but has hips you could hang curtains on.
Her shape is very realistic. Unusual for most female pieces by males in a CG forum. I applaud. :applause:

And I love it. really nice work :)

The only thing I see that is bothersome is the nipples. They are either colorless, unrealisticly small, or she was in fact born without areola. :)

shyy
10-11-2003, 05:58 AM
wow

???
10-11-2003, 06:00 AM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

???
10-11-2003, 06:00 AM
WWWWWOOOOOOOWWWW !!! :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

Caininsin
10-11-2003, 06:11 AM
Great work the character is amazing.:applause:

Scandell
10-11-2003, 06:11 AM
:D

I love it.

Keiyentai
10-11-2003, 06:15 AM
*bows* I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!

Humorix
10-11-2003, 07:05 AM
Gorgeous modelling and image!

Shady_Lady
10-11-2003, 07:08 AM
Super!

hku64 you're the most welcomed!

:beer:

chenga
10-11-2003, 07:09 AM
:thumbsup:

perfect work!!!!

can't wait to see the wire :buttrock:

sixthe45
10-11-2003, 07:26 AM
Modelling,texturing truly amazing.
Level of detail :thumbsup:
It shows you have put in a lot of work.
Good job. :beer:

HenningK
10-11-2003, 08:05 AM
ridiculously hot. I like how the shoestring-thin leather rope goes right across both her nips. And whats she sitting on? an atom bomb?
love,hen

Shaykai
10-11-2003, 08:19 AM
wasn't this frontpage earlier today (the 10th)? But now its not? Thats really weird.

onscreen
10-11-2003, 08:52 AM
you have sealed me mouth on commenting the work :applause: :drool:

gmask
10-11-2003, 09:01 AM
Personally I think the fingers look "tubey" and the rendering is so-so.. You'd think anyone capable of modelling this character could do a better job on the finger tips???

KolbyJukes
10-11-2003, 09:52 AM
Nice Work!

Yeah, this was on the frontpage, earlier today. I wonder what happened there?

-Kol.

future14
10-11-2003, 11:33 AM
hey dude, that's a nice work man, wish to c the wireframes....

DKnight
10-11-2003, 12:08 PM
simply beautifull :beer: , the only downfall is the nipple texture and the less detailed fingers

lildragon
10-11-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by KWAK
Nice Work!

Yeah, this was on the frontpage, earlier today. I wonder what happened there?

-Kol.

His server died, it's now hosted

-lild

safakoner
10-11-2003, 12:16 PM
impressive work. can I see wireframe ?

:applause:

Saeed
10-11-2003, 12:16 PM
Very Nice :applause:

WChestnutt
10-11-2003, 12:28 PM
thats just so cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's totaly like a final fantasy 8 chracter, just so amazing!!

dude, you HAVE to show a wireframe!!! :drool: :drool: :buttrock: :buttrock:

Cheers,

Wil

Sqwall
10-11-2003, 01:15 PM
There is a lot of stuff to be fixed here. Materials mostly but the overal impression is good. I prefer the small scale image because a lot of the flaws are invisible. :p

jntr
10-11-2003, 01:19 PM
wow, thats awesome.

eYadNesS
10-11-2003, 01:27 PM
Finally you are here hku64, nice new work, I like this character from the last picture, she is very cool...
Like Yuna eyes too :)

ToFu
10-11-2003, 01:35 PM
GOOD: Great hair and fabric modeling & texturing.

Things that I could point out to help you:
1. Propotion - I understand that this is stylized character but even so, her legs are way too long for her body.

2. Deformation - again, her leg's deformation needs some more work; back of her tigh lost volume and I see that you tried to hide bad deforamtion on the knee with uhh.. string thingy but it's not working.

nathanielbell
10-11-2003, 01:55 PM
the nipples are in the wrong place if thats them under the strap. But other than that.. Very nice.

Julez4001
10-11-2003, 02:01 PM
LOVE TO SEE WIREFRAME


Ony crit..is that her skin looks plastic like..no real warmth to her...
Anyway to push the envelope on the skin..I only ask this because I think you can do it and its a personal observation...its TOP NOTCH work.

Matt
10-11-2003, 02:02 PM
Hot.

BaranWearraan
10-11-2003, 02:06 PM
Holy Smoke !!! That's impressive !!!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Miyazaki
10-11-2003, 02:14 PM
Hot babe :love:! Amazing, my new desktop image.

AMARoso
10-11-2003, 02:29 PM
OMG is the only tihng i can say :applause:

Mudvin
10-11-2003, 02:42 PM
First glance: cool.

But then:
1. Chains are too shining. First time i muddles them with some plastic wrap, especially with these fog and cloth at the bottom.
2. Nose of woman is very overbrighten.
3. No "depth" at the face at all. Eyes and face area at all are "flat", i don't know - by intention or not.

Overall impression: very good, but still need some work with light. :)

Taharez
10-11-2003, 02:47 PM
Amazing work!

Of course I have a few comments though ;) I agree with most crits about the textures and lighting, and also with ToFu on the legs, IMO the entire area below the waist looks a bit overscaled compared to the body. I also second the oppinion about the fingers, especially the curved finger on the left hand looks like a pipe bend, not like a natural finger joint. Same thing although less appearent on the right hand, also the joints are strangely done, so it looks like the fingers are 'fat', as there is a smooth transition between the finger segments. A little of the same affects the right arm, there's no 'wrinkles' in the skin, even though the arm is slightly bent.

Lastly, I'm not really sure what style it's supposed to be, mostly it looks realistic ( although overly perfect in the skind for example ), but the head makes me think of FF, like someone already said. Regardless, it's a great piece of art, keep up the good work :thumbsup:

jerr3d
10-11-2003, 02:55 PM
I LOVE YOU!

hellbender
10-11-2003, 04:41 PM
She's GREAT! i simply love your style, i think you are the oriental Stahlberg.
One of the most detailed models i've ever seen.

w8ting for more.

CHEERS.

hku64
10-11-2003, 04:49 PM
Thank you everybody~;)

http://www.xcomicx.com/animation/pu-sketch.jpg

Shady_Lady
10-11-2003, 05:21 PM
ahhh, your freehand sketch is not bad also, I know you've draw some comics , before entering the 3d industry.....:rolleyes:

MaRvI
10-11-2003, 05:30 PM
Well I really love the pose and overal the entire character, but a few thing bother me..

In this pose the knees won't look like this, the patella and the band the goes over the patella under the skin would be visible. The Musculus Gastrocnemius don't know the englisch name ( the muscule at the back of the underleg ) would be a lil more pronounced because it's on tention. And to be honest the fingers look a lil like shit.

But as I said it are just lil things and the picture looks great

WChestnutt
10-11-2003, 05:34 PM
c'mon man, show a wireframe!!!! please?

great sketches!!

Will

gmask
10-11-2003, 05:48 PM
<comment retracted>

character
10-11-2003, 05:58 PM
who cares, it looks great. hehe. beautiful work =)

gmask
10-11-2003, 06:20 PM
<comment retracked>

Witchy
10-11-2003, 06:31 PM
Well I don't suppose everyone goes over other peoples models and automatically suggests they are paint overs, poser models, cut and paste jobs or stolen either. Perhaps the feet and hands were modelled seperately, that does not mean they are from poser or someone elses model; you could just ask instead of posting something accusatory.

Kel Solaar
10-11-2003, 06:31 PM
Impressive and amazing work, you have done an incredible work!

gmask
10-11-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Witchy
Well I don't suppose everyone goes over other peoples models and automatically suggests they are paint overs, poser models, cut and paste jobs or stolen either. Perhaps the feet and hands were modelled seperately, that does not mean they are from poser or someone elses model; you could just ask instead of posting something accusatory.

I'm basing my coments on what I see in the wireframe. I see an obvious seam on the ankles, I see the seam on the wrists covered. I see crappy fingers <comment retracted>

If this person did model the hands and feet themselves they didn't do a good job with the hands and it's not very hard to predict how many faces you will need to have a seamless connection between foot and ankle. You got 24 faces around the ankle.. then you need 24 faces aroud the top of the foot.. simple.. you just need to count.

Maybe everyone who's tongue is hanging out should ask permission first :drool:

WChestnutt
10-11-2003, 06:59 PM
holy.....this must have taken months!!!! it's incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JackGeckler
10-11-2003, 07:25 PM
First and formost great job on nailing a good look and feel for her, I absolutly love her pose. The only thing that really stood out to me and I sat having to explain this to one of my students who showed me this image was the quality of the textureing.

Its been mentioned a couple of times so far but Ill just add my two cents. First is the amount of specularity on the chains, they come across as either haveing the consistency of a nerf ball or of plastic chains. Im assumeing you weren't going for either. I think just tweaking that and possibly adding some layers of filth to some of the objects would of added much more to the scene and look. Also if you know this ahead of time and dont want to spend the time to play with textures or lighting further, adjust the camera and try to get angle that will hide those flaws. I would of also tried showing more smaller images to get away with this too. Maybe one compositioned wallpaper with many small images would of hid alot of those too.

Over all really good work man and look forward to seeing more of your stuff posted.

softdistortion
10-11-2003, 07:27 PM
Unmatched seams are a bit odd for a model with this level of detail...especially if you are posting the mesh for criticism...er...em...i mean viewing :-)....but then again, maybe that's the way this guys mind works??? My work area is a mess too. :)

At the same time, why does it seem a lot of pro's are able to pick out a poser model/hand/foot/navel ...etc...etc ...anyway.... :shrug:

Personally, I have a nagging feeling that gmask's hat is a Poser prop model. :-)

sinthetic
10-11-2003, 07:27 PM
In the sketch you can see her nipples, in the final image the breasts look a little odd. The nipples are not seen or big enough, it just looks she has smooth boobs and nothing on them, kinda of odd.

Of course the rest, looks great, amazing work like everyone else says.

gmask
10-11-2003, 07:39 PM
<comment retracted>

gmask
10-11-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by softdistortion
Unmatched seams are a bit odd for a model with this level of detail...especially if you are posting the mesh for criticism...er...em...i mean viewing :-)....but then again, maybe that's the way this guys mind works??? My work area is a mess too. :)

At the same time, why does it seem a lot of pro's are able to pick out a poser model/hand/foot/navel ...etc...etc ...anyway.... :shrug:

Personally, I have a nagging feeling that gmask's hat is a Poser prop model. :-)

Oh change your post will ya.. don't make this personal :shame:

sebek27
10-11-2003, 07:42 PM
wow ! you are an amazing artist ! do you use Max or Maya ? and when you model your characters, do you start with a box and work from this or a plane and extrude ? one more question, do you model the rest of the body in one shot or are the arms and legs modeled separately then connected ? :buttrock:

softdistortion
10-11-2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by gmask
If you want to ignore the finer points of art that's fine but I will express my opinions about them freely here.


Hey, now you're assuming I want to ignoring the finer points of art??? Ok this is gonna get ugly now.. :)

gmask
10-11-2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by sebek27
wow ! you are an amazing artist ! do you use Max or Maya ? and when you model your characters, do you start with a box and work from this or a plane and extrude ? one more question, do you model the rest of the body in one shot or are the arms and legs modeled separately then connected ? :buttrock:

based on the screencapture where you can see MAXscript in the menu I would say it's at least rendered in Max. As for modelling technique I have to wonder if we will every know exactly how it was made but it seems obvious to me that the hands and feet were not part of the "original" model.

gmask
10-11-2003, 07:53 PM
>>>Hey, now you're assuming I want to ignoring the finer points of art??? Ok this is gonna get ugly now.. :)

My gut reaction is that many people respond to half nude women here and don't understand art or appreciate other forms of art.

Like let's just speculate if this character had been a nude study of a man.. with the same straps and stuff.. do you think the same number of people would be oohing and awwing over the technical aspects of this piece?

I'm seen some truly amazing studie sof the male form that make this peice plae in comparison but they didn't garner as much of a repsonse because well it's not a half nude girl.. so .. that's my observation..

I have this theory that if the gollum had been female it would not have been nearly as popular. I find it funny how obvious gender stereotypes are.

>>>And what about that poser hat? huh?? huh???

Hat.. made by nike.. patch on hat.. I dunno I got it off ebay.. myself.. well there is much dispute to where humans came from.. all I can say is that I'm not a Poser model.

aesir
10-11-2003, 07:58 PM
Dude. Most people (including women) would rather see a naked (or rather half naked) woman than a man. Women are beutiful. Thats all there is to it.

softdistortion
10-11-2003, 08:00 PM
I suddenly feel all cheap and dirty for replying to this thread.... :surprised

In my defense, I checked all recent gallery images ... I even clicked on the Lizard render. Not cause I have a thing for lizards though.... ;)

gmask
10-11-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by aesir
Dude. Most people (including women) would rather see a naked (or rather half naked) woman than a man. Women are beutiful. Thats all there is to it.

I guess people go to see Michelangelo's David because of the fig leaf?

So basically you are agreeing with me and saying that you don't understand art but you know a hot chick when you see one.

So why do peopel like the Gollum.. he's male and hideously ugly.. are you saying that women in any form can never be portrayed as ugly? Maybe th egoullum should have been a topless babe in a g-string.. I bet that would have improved the movie greatly :rolleyes: There could have been a hot scene with Bilboe makign out with it..:p

gmask
10-11-2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by softdistortion
I suddenly feel all cheap and dirty for replying to this thread.... :surprised

In my defense, I checked all recent gallery images ... I even clicked on the Lizard render. Not cause I have a thing for lizards though.... ;)

Dude admit it! you want to get it on with every lizard you see. :shame:

Here's a bunch of hotties for ya.
http://www.billybear4kids.com/animal/wallppr/imagemap/lizards.jpg

softdistortion
10-11-2003, 08:24 PM
ROFLOL...ok, we better stop this or we'll get deleted by the MOD. ....ROFLOL...oh.... the funny!!

ShadowM8
10-11-2003, 08:44 PM
Amazing work, this one goes on my desktop for sure!
BTW have you ever considered putting this on a poster cause i would gladly pay money for it!

gnarlycranium
10-11-2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by aesir
Dude. Most people (including women) would rather see a naked (or rather half naked) woman than a man. Women are beutiful. Thats all there is to it.

Speak for yourself!! I'm not a lesbian, so frankly I'm sick and tired of having to look at naked women! :rolleyes:


As for the piece... the metal shaders need work, as has been mentioned. I've no crits for the face, apart from maybe the cheeks seem to puffy. The torso seems good, but her hips and legs have some pretty serious issues, some of it modeling, some of it joint deformation. She ceases to look like flesh from the waist down, and takes on a doll-like quality, as if her body has been stuffed with something soft and bent into place, instead of having bones and muscles. Her hips especially seem a bit funky.... the shape reminds me of when a guy dresses up as a woman and puts on hip pads, there's no bones inside, just a soft uniform lump. The sketch has that exact same problem, in an even more exaggerated way.

I like the hair. It's simply, insanely crazy. How the heck did he get all that IN there??? :cool:

DustinBrown
10-11-2003, 09:07 PM
hot damn, thats sweet.

-Dustin

DoctorStopMo
10-11-2003, 09:09 PM
Wow, that's simply awesome. Did you really model her in that pose, asymmetrically? That's got to be tough. Amazing work!:)

gmask
10-11-2003, 09:17 PM
>>>Speak for yourself!! I'm not a lesbian, so frankly I'm sick and tired of having to look at naked women! :rolleyes:


LOL.. thanks for chiming in.. my point is that art is not about the content only.. wether or not your prefer to look at one or the other maleor female does not determine your sexuality. One should beable to appreciate art in all forms aside from it's content.

For me what make this image at all interesting is the tenacles, straps etc.. the character herself isn't especally compelling in execution and overall this is yet just another hotchick in a somewhat minimal environment.

In comparison to the "Kishars" image on the artist's website this one is weak and does not offer the same level of attention to shading and form. Although given the pose of the female in the "Kishars" image the breasts are somewhat defying gravity.

Oh and after looking at that image I realised that the hands and feet in this one came from "Kishars". I think it's about time he got some better hands and instad of reusing these..with the puddy fingers.

NelsonInomvan
10-11-2003, 09:19 PM
no no no this is not real. This is some freaking good stuff you got there. WOOOW man you totaly rock. That's what i call great work whit capitol G.

this is the second time i see works from you and now i'm shure that you got the talent. :thumbsup: just keep up the good work and inspire us more and more often. Wish you a lot of work and tons of inspiration :applause:

Keiyentai
10-11-2003, 09:22 PM
:surprised holy crap....:hmm: I leave home for a couple days then get and e-mail saying some one responded and BOOM World War 4 CGtalk style! Damn. Personaly I think if he took the hands and feet from poser owell. It looks good. Yes it has a couple flaws but there is no need to argue over it. Oh and the post refering Gmask as a poser model for the hat.....umm....it's noticeable that it's not one....I think the hat looks cool. As for Gmask he needs more detail around the eyes and so on lol j/k sorry. I think we should drop this argument and just agree thats it's a nice model. Ok. NOW EVERYONE BE HAPPY!

gmask
10-11-2003, 09:29 PM
>>> Personaly I think if he took the hands and feet from poser owell. It looks good. Yes it has a couple flaws but there is no need to argue over it. ..... think we should drop this argument and just agree thats it's a nice model. Ok.

Well I'm not really that impressed with the model and I would like to know more about how it was made and why the hands look so crappy.

I think the "Kishars" image is much better than this but I guess nobody really wants to discuss art/technique but instead feel the need to worship their hormones.. whatever. :rolleyes: I guess I can expect to get as much praise if I decide to make a hotchick model instead exploring some lesser travelled path.

nvaughn
10-11-2003, 10:25 PM
unbelievably awesomely cool....

it's a site to see, wow. Detailing like no other.

Garma
10-11-2003, 10:50 PM
stun-ning.
:surprised + :applause:

thesaint
10-11-2003, 11:05 PM
there is so much in there! I hope it is compression that is forcing your image to contain such solid blacks. I want to see that detail and the depth that is in there.

Maybe just the softest of lights pointing into the darkest areas to lift it, but only just enough to combat the heavy detail-killing black for those of us viewing from compressed sources. It might force you to pull the specularity down a touch to stop bloom, but it would be so worth of it for us mere mortals.


wow, you are good. I think there is a lot of merit to gmasks comments though...

BlueHarp411
10-11-2003, 11:16 PM
Incredible!!!!!!! that is stunning. Wow- not enough adjectives to describe that piece lol

Jill

Jabor
10-11-2003, 11:27 PM
Ok people, now you're just pissing me off. This is for everybody.

It's a beautiful image, who disagrees? And even if you disagree, you should at least respect. It was a lot of hardwork and the guy came out with something that he should be proud of having made by himself. I doesn't matter if the hands or body are a poser model. What he made with that poser model is what counts.

And please, stop bothering about things like "the hand needs work", "the metal texture needs work", "the hair is odd", "I don't like naked women" etc. Would you tell Van Gogh that his perspective was incorrect?

That's why critics are so hated, they don't question an artist about his/her intentions of feeling, they just tell what they think.

Ease down people!!!

gnarlycranium
10-11-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Jabor
And please, stop bothering about things like "the hand needs work", "the metal texture needs work", "the hair is odd", "I don't like naked women" etc. Would you tell Van Gogh that his perspective was incorrect?


Yes. And it's a critique forum. That's what it's FOR. :rolleyes:

Jabor
10-11-2003, 11:42 PM
But you shouldn't criticise that. You should talk about the impact the image has, how did the artist managed to achieve the feeling, what are his intentions in showing it etc. You people car too much about tchnical details...

gmask
10-11-2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by Jabor
Ok people, now you're just pissing me off. This is for everybody.



oh my I have pissed off Jabor..

Because I have eyes and a brain I compare things.. I compare this piece to his other piece on his website called Kishar and this one is not as good. Having things to say about about art does not make one a critic as if I had not ability myself to create art.

I have treated this piece with respect in that I have given reasons behind my comments.. I never said "I don't like naked women" as equally absurd as that statement is it would be ridiculous to make claim that everyone would rather look at a female nude than anything else..even though there is a obviosuly some truth to that statement it is a shallow understanding of art.

I post constructive criticism on nude studies both male and female as well as many other kinds of content that comes through here.

>>>That's why critics are so hated, they don't question an artist about his/her intentions of feeling, they just tell what they think.

Hate is strong word so be carefull how you use it.

What are the intentions of this image? She seems to be a medusa .. the female as the original sin. There is a snake which iconographically represents temptation. Therefore in short women are evil seductresses. So be careful she may very well be a maneater.. after you have foolishly heeded her sirens call your ship will be destroyed on the hidden rocks under the waves.

Bet you didn't see that coming. :applause:

gmask
10-11-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Jabor
But you shouldn't criticise that. You should talk about the impact the image has, how did the artist managed to achieve the feeling, what are his intentions in showing it etc. You people car too much about tchnical details...

I'm anxious to hear you interpretation of this image.. cause nobody else has said anything remotely along the lines that you suggest. This forum and site is 90 precent technological.. it is about conversations to help artists improve their work. I can't iamge one would od that without discussing technique.:surprised

Please read the statement on the homepage..

"This website has been set up for Digital Visual Effects professionals and practitioners to share ideas and contribute in an online community.
"

I'm sharing ideas here.. all over the places.. you are telling me not to??:shame:

Jabor
10-11-2003, 11:50 PM
Bet you didn't see that coming.

Oh, I DID. That's whay I said something.

And what I said was for some people in this forum. If you want to consider yourself one of them, be my guest, I wasn't talking to you anyway...:shrug:

gmask
10-11-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Jabor
Oh, I DID. That's whay I said something.

And what I said was for some people in this forum. If you want to consider yourself one of them, be my guest, I wasn't talking to you anyway...:shrug:

You weren't??? seeing as how I was the first person to say anything negative about this image and that I have been posting quite a bit on this thread I would have a hard time thinking that you weren't talking to me.

Nice back tracking.. let me know when you have some firm ground to stand on :wavey:

gnarlycranium
10-11-2003, 11:54 PM
Plus, there needs to be some balance against the fanboy flood. :shrug:

gmask
10-11-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Gnarly Cranium
Plus, there needs to be some balance against the fanboy flood. :shrug:

Totally! Good grief it's getting way too sweaty in here :love:

MaRvI
10-12-2003, 12:08 AM
Well I tried to add some critism a few post before ya did gmask, but I had to add that I liked the picture because I like it, and that may be because the girl is half naked or it may be because the straps :) I dunno...

So please leave the fanboy for who they are and relax, you've made your point and I really enjoyed your posts ( I really did ) :) ... If ya want to know for sure if he has recycled the feet and hands then mail the maker ;)

Matt-Clark
10-12-2003, 12:11 AM
Yes, less sweat please. ;)

I think the reason the fingers look odd is the same reason the knees look a little odd, and thats the skinning deformation. The joints appear to 'bend' as opposed to hinge if that makes sense. In reality its more of a combination of soft tissue bending over hinged bones, and that's difficult to get looking right sometimes.

I quite like the image, but don't think it's a polished as the Kishars one. The materials were far more consistent in that image, whereas there are some very 'cg' looking ones in this which really dont seem to sit well with the more beautiful painterly materials.

gmask
10-12-2003, 12:15 AM
I would actually like to have some back and forth with some of these comments. Anyway. i know that the hands and feet are recycled from looking at the the rsrtists website... but I have emailed him.. anyway...

I just have to wonder if people are aware of the possible sexist overtones of the image cause they seem to be feeding off it. The irony being that the underlying message is that she will destroy your manhood should you be so easily swayed by the lure of her "beauty". Seems like most would be.

<comment retracted>

MaRvI
10-12-2003, 12:19 AM
Real artists will feed on your criticism, and ignore the fanboy comments... And will-be-artists will feed on both because they also need the encouragement to keep going...

And for the meduse statement I think you are correct, most people won't think about the picture in that way, because most people consume art and don't try to understand the deeper meanings of it..

Jb5k1
10-12-2003, 12:20 AM
wow, nothing but wow

but kinda resembles celine dione, which makes her less hot, but if you don't think of that, WOW:applause: :applause: :drool:

Dave Black
10-12-2003, 12:23 AM
I had to stop and chuckle a bit after that one... ^

:rolleyes:

-3DZ

:D

gmask
10-12-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by 3DZealot
I had to stop and chuckle a bit after that one... ^

:rolleyes:

-3DZ

:D

LOL.. dur... :scream:

delly
10-12-2003, 12:31 AM
Woww.. this is SUPERB :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
love the works on your site too

kdub
10-12-2003, 01:12 AM
I find this image to be very beautiful, but for some reason am not completely impressed. I admire and respect the pure skill that was needed to make this, and believe the style that the artist uses in most of his work is nothing short of sexy. But the image is missing an environment which has already been stated.

what seems to be a hotter topic is the fanboy crap, i think the fanboy stuff is alright, we can all pretend to be "above" the fanboys by not being impressed by anything, but truth be told some stuff out there is jawdropping and deserves praise without criticism. True criticism comes with some praise. Why should an aritist listen to you if all you have to say is bad? If you are first impressed by part of the work it shows your ability to be impressed and will make the artist more likely to listen to you and work on what you suggest.

In addition, real ciritcs ask questions, they don't ramble off their thoughts. Sometimes they can't ask questions, in which case a certain level of abmiguity is required to not look like an arrogant know-it-all who presumes to know what the artist was thinking. Here one can ask questions. Like "what is the snake for?" maybe it doesn't stand for temptation like some book told you. maybe he thinks that it is her guardian protecting her or some other purpose. maybe the artist thinks snakes look cool?

Bottom line is some things don't have deeper meanings, they are exactly what they appear to be, and some things do. So stop getting mad at the fanboys, fanboys let the critics be critical, and critics, try and throw in a word of praise when it is even slightly deserved, more artists will listen to you and you will accomplish what should be your primary goal, to help the artist IMPROVE his ot her work, not make him or her feel like he or she has done something wrong.

and while i don't want to argue with you and your 3000+ posts gmask, It doesn't seem like you were out to help him improve, you were out to defame and ruin his work, and while i respect your opinion, what you did was uncalled for.

Keiyentai
10-12-2003, 01:40 AM
I'm not trying to be a fanboy gmask. I dont think this pic is the best in the world but it is nice for the time he put in to it, you also said something about a "Kishar" I think. Who is this person? I dont know who or what it is. SOrry. Maybe give me some info so I can look up on it gmask?

gmask
10-12-2003, 01:42 AM
>>>and while i don't want to argue with you and your 3000+ posts gmask, It doesn't seem like you were out to help him improve, you were out to defame and ruin his work, and while i respect your opinion, what you did was uncalled for.

Actually i have more or less said that I thought his Kishar piece was much better. I have asked why the hands look so crappy so there is one of the questions I have posed.. and I have emailed the author and perhaps I will get a reply.. due to the language barrier he may not participate in the discussion.

Defame and ruin his work?.. haha you give me way to much credit.. how would I do that? I have only pointed out the weaknesses that I see in the image and others agree.. there is nothing wrong with that. Besides there is no rule that one must give compliments in order to give criticism.. if that were the case then most of the people have replied positively without giving any criticism.. except maybe of themselves IE statements like "I'm not not worthy". Why do people say that.. it's silly.

I have posed a question, is this image sexist? I think the response it has garnered shows that it is and that the most of the posters on this thread only have interests in purient softcore and cannot appreciate aestetics that do not include a nude woman. Maybe it's hormonal .. puberty is to blame I suppose. But there is more to art than nude women no matter what the technique or level of expertise. The nude female is a reoccuring elemtn throughout art history and so is sexism.. Picasso did not beleive that women could even be artists.. he was a pig.

Art is open to interpretation ..even when the artist goes out of their way to make a statement that does not mean it can only be read only one way .. to suppress that notion suppresses art..

The snake pretty much represents evil to some degree in most cultures .. I highly doubt there is a difference here and it would be hard to debate that the hair does not look like tentacles. .. it certainly doesn't look like human hair. This work is hardly a master piece of iconographic subtleties.

The use of mythology in modern art is frequent and pervasive .. to say that there was no influence or to rule it out is to evade the issue. You have no arguements to support that view except to say cause it's cool.. c'mon.. There are alot of things one could do or say cause it's cool that in reality aren't.. but I won't list them here because I don't wish to offend anyone.

If you can't discuss the concept of sexism in art then you should examine your ethics.. it's a real issue one worth discussing. Just because we are bombarded with sexist media and entertainment and cultural values everyday does not mean that we have to accept them without question.

gmask
10-12-2003, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Keiyentai
I'm not trying to be a fanboy gmask. I dont think this pic is the best in the world but it is nice for the time he put in to it, you also said something about a "Kishar" I think. Who is this person? I dont know who or what it is. SOrry. Maybe give me some info so I can look up on it gmask?

Go to the Artist website www.xcomicx.com a.. it's listed in his profile .

anyway here's a direct link to the image I am referring to..

you'll notice the hands and feet are the same as this model

http://www.xcomicx.com/image/jpg/finalkkk.jpg


The same hands are used in this image as well although they look much better here.. or that is to say they aren't as noticeable

http://www.xcomicx.com/image/jpg/ousters.jpg

This one made me laugh out loud.. I dunno it's kind of absurd.. and combines a bit too much sexuality with the cutsey school girl look.. warning some might find this image disturbing

http://www.xcomicx.com/image/jpg/gg.jpg

Here's a piece that's not about sexy girls.. wha??

http://www.xcomicx.com/image/jpg/f12-f.jpg


watch out for ole rubber fingers.. he'll get ya ;-)

http://www.xcomicx.com/image/jpg/mefinal.jpg

Here's a totally nude girl .. the hands in this one are pretty good which makes me wonder why in this current one they are so bad.. of course the other problem with this image is that the breasts look like they are hanging down even though she is on her back???

http://www.xcomicx.com/image/jpg/cg_hku64_1013.jpg


Even though this isn't technically the best image I like it because it takes me somewhere and puts the character in a space and there is a balance between the sexual nature and the sci-fi fantasy aspect of his work that is absent in all the other pieces.

It also puts the female character into the role of the destroyer of men. This could be a double edged sword. On one hand it is a power position for women to be portrayed as but on the other it could mean that women are inherently evil and out to undermine the male ego.

http://www.xcomicx.com/image/jpg/final.jpg

Lastly here is the only strong male character on the website.. again those fingers need some help..arghh!!

http://www.xcomicx.com/image/jpg/musa.jpg

kinglamoni22
10-12-2003, 02:10 AM
its a nice model were ever it came from. why not just try asking him? hey hku64, were did you get the model?

with that said, every thing ells in this image is consistant with the skills it took to creat the model.

a reminder that it is ok for an animator to use a model created by some one ells, or for a texture artist to texture an existing model. just be sure to give credit where credit is due.

laters

hackie
10-12-2003, 02:12 AM
as a Korean 3D artist i'm really proud of you, dude.
i saw your previous model called 'Kishars'. that was pretty awesome stuff too.
and...this model is pretty sweet!!!!
what a beautiful line-flow on the model!!

i'm looking forward to seeing your next model!
good job!!

ji.

WillJohn
10-12-2003, 02:23 AM
man my heart just stopped!

then i looked at it again , and it got it back ticking.

That is awesome work.

I think this is a type of 3d that will always be around.. i mean its not photoreal , so it doesnt suffer from the attempts of trying to be photoreal.

Pr is DEAD!

great work.

-Will

Opeth
10-12-2003, 02:25 AM
this thread is full of sick ppl having too much spare time on their hands.
jabor - please shut up.
cg talk is here for ppl to show their stuff & get comments.
otherwise the threads wouldn't have an reply option.
not every "work of art" (i feel like a idiot using that phrase) has to have impact & this IS a CG forum after all, so any problems with the actual CG work that bothers some1 should be mentioned by him.
the image is good, alot of work, it seems with a few more hours alot of errors could be bettered. the specular, the snakes mouth.
still, more work than i've ever put into a project.
Kudos to the korean dude.

Kieguy
10-12-2003, 03:12 AM
I have to respect all the detail and work that must have gone into making this. The genre and style isn't totally my bag (the "typical"...sorry, I use that word but for lack of a better one...mannequin pretty female in the final fantasy overall style)...but still, overall a rather beautiful and impressive image.

For a critique, the first thing that jumped out at me....the navel seems way too low!

Is that just me? Didn't see anyone else mention it, but I skimmed over most of the fanboy vs. non-fanboy chit-chat. :D

gmask
10-12-2003, 03:16 AM
>>>For a critique, the first thing that jumped out at me....the navel seems way too low! Is that just me? Didn't see anyone else mention it

I think you are right about the navel.. I hadn't really noticed.. less distracting than the non metallic shaders or noodle fingers

Nuggygruff
10-12-2003, 03:47 AM
Looks very Final Fantasy.
Only crit is the texture on the pole thing very stretched.
Great work :buttrock:

Blackhorse
10-12-2003, 03:48 AM
amazing as usual!

PureFire
10-12-2003, 04:39 AM
WOW...thats really damn nice...and dont worry about some of the negative comments cause this roxorz! :D

gmask
10-12-2003, 04:46 AM
>>this roxorz! :D

Ugh :scream:

ToddD
10-12-2003, 04:47 AM
I would like to see an unsmoothed wireframe of the girl's body, you know with no meshsmooth. A very attractive work, visually stunning, but odd to me that the sketches don't seem to match the anatomical style of the final model, almost like they were done by 2 different people. I know it's just a sketch, but the model has very good proportions, and IMO if you can model that well, your sketches would be on par in regards to quality:shrug: Sorry if I missed any info posted about that, and congrats on a very nice piece of work. :beer:

recoil
10-12-2003, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by gmask
>>>For a critique, the first thing that jumped out at me....the navel seems way too low! Is that just me? Didn't see anyone else mention it

I think you are right about the navel.. I hadn't really noticed.. less distracting than the non metallic shaders or noodle fingers


Didn't I mention navels back a few pages...or am I taking crazy pills?

.... I might have missed it myself cause there are too many 500 word essay posts for me to read in one nite. :p

gmask
10-12-2003, 04:52 AM
<comment retracted>

gmask
10-12-2003, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by Tbonz816
I would like to see an unsmoothed wireframe of the girl's body, you know with no meshsmooth. A very attractive work, visually stunning, but odd to me that the sketches don't seem to match the anatomical style of the final model, almost like they were done by 2 different people. I know it's just a sketch, but the model has very good proportions, and IMO if you can model that well, your sketches would be on par in regards to quality:shrug: Sorry if I missed any info posted about that, and congrats on a very nice piece of work. :beer:

Well the issue is moot as this point.. unless you want to be beaten down for insinuating that there was anything wrong with this guy's process.

Honestly the mesh doesn't look like the typical results of a smoothing function.. I'm not that familiar with Max but the topology just doesn't have that kind of feel.. I dunno what that means exactly but I'm not implying anything either.

softdistortion
10-12-2003, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by recoil
Didn't I mention navels back a few pages...or am I taking crazy pills?

.... I might have missed it myself cause there are too many 500 word essay posts for me to read in one nite. :p


You "ratbag fanboy roxorz". It's a Poser navel I say!!!! :wise:

gmask
10-12-2003, 04:58 AM
Oh jeez..

softdistortion
10-12-2003, 05:00 AM
well it was less than 500 words. :)

gmask
10-12-2003, 05:03 AM
I dare anyone to out type me with an explaination of why this image is not sexist or any interpretation other than her being a medusa evil representation of women.. c'mon somebody must have at least 500 words of thoughts in their head on the subject??

Y'know they say a picture is worth a 1000 words I only want to see half of that.

softdistortion
10-12-2003, 05:14 AM
Buckling from the load, the CGtalk servers burst into flames and melt as Gmask continues, unabated, posting one massive intro-spective after another....:beer:

gmask
10-12-2003, 05:15 AM
<comment retracted>

kyklos
10-12-2003, 07:15 AM
All i gotta say is.......I'm inspired.

iBlue
10-12-2003, 07:23 AM
genius... absolute... genius.. :buttrock:

pelos
10-12-2003, 08:26 AM
just incredible, amazing!!!!

the problem, unfortunally is the diferent point of view of the people, we the people have problem for accepting others mind,
is true, the art comes in so many diferent ways,!!!

Elvis1979cn
10-12-2003, 09:30 AM
very nice work!I love it!

cgg
10-12-2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by gmask
>>this roxorz! :D

Ugh :scream:

rofl :wip:

kenkenken
10-12-2003, 09:54 AM
:applause:
very good

Ls3D
10-12-2003, 09:59 AM
Bitchen! I nearly had to touch myself.

-Shea
www.Ls3D.com

:cool:

accasha
10-12-2003, 11:07 AM
Always love to see your works. I am very proud of you that you are Korean.
I hope very impressive Korean 3d artises use the world wide cg galleries instead using only korean cg site to get critics from wwly.
your works are mostly very finished and impressive as soa's works.
Hope to see your new works in the near future.
Bye .

NMarzian
10-12-2003, 11:55 AM
Wow, I love her! :buttrock:
You did some really fantastic work. I will give five stars.

spm
10-12-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by gmask
I dare anyone to out type me with an explaination of why this image is not sexist or any interpretation other than her being a medusa evil representation of women.. c'mon somebody must have at least 500 words of thoughts in their head on the subject??

Y'know they say a picture is worth a 1000 words I only want to see half of that.

come on man. its just an everyday game/manga/anime type of pic, although well done (impressive modeling). im sure youve seen this kind of stuff everywhere before this... without reacting.

SpaceTik
10-12-2003, 01:00 PM
well done once again.. in keeping with the rest of your work kindly presented to us by the nice fella who has a TOO MUCH SPARE TIME on his hands!... and likely to reply to this post no doubt. I like this piece as a whole but I especially like the design process that goes into it. A lot of people can model well, I have friends who can model almost anything given enough time but the whole composition, colour and design process i find very impressive.

Well done!
ps. he could be a fashion designer!

intox_neb
10-12-2003, 01:17 PM
amazing! :applause:

j3st3r
10-12-2003, 01:31 PM
Few comments:

1. Fan comments: I think fan comments are mostly useless, boring, nonimformative slimes (sorry). Very few of them contains any usable feedback. I do prefer if my faults are spotted by others, although I didn`t use to edit my image (especially when I`m finished) based on a critique, but I try to take care of them on my next one.

2. What I don`t understand, that there are many critics about details, which are not photoreal. Even the whole image is not photoreal, so I don`t really understand why the hand should look perfect. It`s a totally different style, closer to the manga, than to the traditional styles. And if you take time to look at some painters of the 20th century you might see more stylized limbs than this character has. We have great painters, who made anatomically awful characters, unbelieveble proportioned humans, but they succeeded to make an IMPRESSION. I think art has no other goal, to make impression. Impression to the artist itself, and to the public as well. Replicating life is not always targeted by artists. Look at the final fantasy games cinemtaics...They are brilliant. Technically, visually.
Our problem is sometimes, that we don`t get the impression, we are looking for details hard to do (hands, eyes, etc.), and if we are not satisfied, the rest doesn`t count.
About Gollum. Gollum is wowed not for being an ugly male, but for being the most complex cg character done. With actor Andy Serkis behind it lived on the screen. I`m sure that Gollum-like female would be wowed if the same quality would be presented.
I`m looking for Winky, I think Winky is female houseelf from Harry Potter 4...

Peace guys...

Opeth
10-12-2003, 01:45 PM
you know whats really funny here?
our dear artist doesn't even understand english & probably has no idea what the hell is going on in his thread...
a bit obtuse i'd dare say..
:hmm:

cheers though...
gmask dude, ur ok.
just chill, it doesn't matter man.
the worlds' population is majored by silly ppl with a low level of intelligence. yes.. even the 3D community is stuffed with them.
everywhere u look, u see ignorant ppl.. thats the way it is, getting pissed about it wont' lead to anything but .. well, nothing. just sit back & smile to urself knowing ur smarter than they are.

(corrected a spelling error)

Zappa
10-12-2003, 03:14 PM
oh!Jeez!!:rolleyes:

Someone please pass me a barf bag :surprised

Batsu
10-12-2003, 03:38 PM
Jesus! ive read the hole thread and its full of crap....stop talking about yourselves and others, you dont know if your smarter than the other guy, this is a critic forum for art not for people. Cmon if the guy posted is for something, wether its for the fanboys to praise or to receive critics.
Gmask i see your ponits of view and i agree in some but also agree with others in that the first post u made sounded a little... accusatory (is that a word??:shrug: ), im just telling you how many of us saw it from the outside, that doesn't mean that that was what you wanted, just how it looked for others and that might have caused the...flames?

Well about the image, i really love it (yeah i love women, for me are the most beautifull things on earth, is that sexist? :shrug: ), but like they have said, some problems with the chains, they look like....shoot....my dictionary says....blood puddings? (in spanish: morcilla), also the belly has something i cant quite put the finger on, might be the navel as they said earlier. :shrug:, im no specialist in art nor i consider myself that, but thats my way of trying to help.
Otherwise than that i love your work and style, keep it comming!:buttrock:

Witchy
10-12-2003, 03:44 PM
>>I think the "Kishars" image is much better than this but I guess nobody really wants to discuss art/technique but instead feel the need to worship their hormones.. whatever. I guess I can expect to get as much praise if I decide to make a hotchick model instead exploring some lesser travelled path.

There's nothing wrong with discussing the art or criticising the technique, but you stated you thought the hands and feet were from poser and were pretty definite about it, repeatedly making reference to that. Then your posts changed and you just say they are 'recycled'. So from an accusation of passing off work that you have not done to one of using own made models?

You made the accusation, not constructively, but in a 'wow I caught another one way', did you want a prize? It's like the people who insist things are paint overs and hunt the web for similar images to composite over other work. Is there some odd moral satisfaction to be gained from making accusations and 'keeping the 3d world real', or is it you shoving your concept of reality in other peoples faces? You could have asked the artist (I see you emailed them later) and then made the point that poser models should not be used, if one had been. But no, more fun to get the stakes out and run up to the big house with a burning torch. Noone wants to see people passing other models off as theirs, but there is a way of going about it that makes it look as if you are more interested in the conflict than the issue.

Were you hoping people would turn on the person who posted? This board has 'fanboys' by the million but it also has a group of people who seem determined to arouse a rabble of those who know no better than to post the opposite of 'fanboy' remarks. You can then stand back and say - well my stuff was serious criticism about the art and watch as the jackals feed. I think the unpleasant people here are worse than the fanboys.

I'd prefer to see constructive criticism than accusations and slavering. But this board doesn't offer that as it is dominated by people who want to slam and those who want to post drooling smilies.

As for your suggestion that someone write out 500 + words on why the image is not sexist, it's a shame you judge the written word on quantity not quality, while expecting people to look more closely at a 3d image. The depiction of women in seductive poses is not automatically sexist - the creation and interpretation can be differently motivated. Moreover most judgements along those lines are highly ethnocentric.

I don't happen to think the image is particularly 'hot' or arousing, it's a 3d woman for goodness sake, but neither do I think it is very offensive to women either. I find a stream of 3d images of women like this rather routine, but I appreciate the skill that goes into creating them.

Incidentally 'fanboy' could be seen as a sexist term - are you suggesting only men make pointless drooling comments over every pretty bit of 3d they see? Or is it not sexist because you used it and you understand these things. Then again, who cares about the written word, as long as there are enough of them.

j3st3r
10-12-2003, 03:55 PM
Holy shit. This image is good. The artist (as any other artist) has to improve himself in handmodelling, and some shading. But I don`t want him to change this picture, but I`d rather see the improvement in his new images.

gmask is right about what he said (at least in many points). I realized, that a nude woman thread is more visited than a nude F-16, or a nude old leather briefcase thread. On Lightwave forum one guy made a joke with us, he started a thread with the comment "containing nudity". It was the most visited thread...
Anyway I`m really pissed off two kind of comments:

1. You rocks, you awesome, you genius, you da best etc.
2. Very good start, but... (especially when the subject is a really crappy model)

We just hit into the mid of a delicate subject. What is art. If someone can define it precisely, objectively, what is art, please tell me.

It is hard to say comments on artwork, which are not attempting photorealism. In case of photorealism all the mistakes are obvious, easy to tell. But when it`s NOT photorealism...How could you tell, that the artist was wrong about his model, all it was all intentional? No way, only if he declares, what he was attempting to do.

The Don
10-12-2003, 03:57 PM
absolutely breathtaking work.

gmask
10-12-2003, 07:40 PM
First I will start by saying that I'm not angry about this work nor should you be about anything I have said about it. I appreciate your taking the time to write a reply other than a one liner and that you ahve put some thought into your response. I will repond to the relevant portions of the replay and I may leave out some parts just to shorten the read.


>>>You made the accusation, not constructively, but in a 'wow I caught another one way', did you want a prize?

Just to clarify what I have said and didn't say.. I'll quote myself.. from my first post.

"Personally I think the fingers look "tubey" and the rendering is so-so.. You'd think anyone capable of modelling this character could do a better job on the finger tips??? "

From my second post.

"Looks like the hands and feet were cut off some other model and tacked on.. notice the seam in the mesh around the ankles. The hands god forbid look to me like they came from a poser model .. I dunno about the rest of it."

The hands and feet are from another model.. which is very obvious if you look at the other images on his website. And yes to me the hands have the same screwed up look that they usually do when the person uses them doesn't weight them properly for a deformation. Big deal.. I guess it would have been less irritating to you if I had just left it describing them as tubey or puddy fingers which they are. I just find it very odd that for some reason he chose to reuse them in all his projects. If he's going to reuse an object so many times he could at least take the time to do a better job with them.

>>>It's like the people who insist things are paint overs and hunt the web for similar images to composite over other work.

Okay well think about this.. it is pretty much plaigarism to take a image that a photographer or another visual artist created and then repaint it or add a few details and call it your own art. It may take alot of skill to actually do this but you are taking someoneelse's creativity and having your way with it. This is another issue that has nothing to do with my comments on this thread.

<comment retracted>

>>>I'd prefer to see constructive criticism than accusations and slavering. But this board doesn't offer that as it is dominated by people who want to slam and those who want to post drooling smilies.

I have given constructive criticism . It's just not the criticisms you want to hear.. it's not even your work and you are offended. :rolleyes: My intentions were not to accuse the artist of using Poser but more so to simple compare it to the type of poorly deformed hand they many people get when they use Poser.


>>>As for your suggestion that someone write out 500 + words on why the image is not sexist, it's a shame you judge the written word on quantity not quality, while expecting people to look more closely at a 3d image. The depiction of women in seductive poses is not automatically sexist - the creation and interpretation can be differently motivated. Moreover most judgements along those lines are highly ethnocentric.

It's hard to have a discussion about such things when the thread is continiously peppered with masturbatory replies and one liners. As usual because I have something to say those who disagree want to criticise me for being verbose.. I'm not comparring my writing to Mozart but you might as well tell him that he writes music with too many notes.

My point would be that you can portray a powerful woman without showing them nude. This however is a reoccuring fact of this artists work..and of many artist who post here... does this mean that women are to be seen naked. This is a dimunuitive thing to say about a women.. women are not objects to be put on display. Those who go on about how women are objects of beauty don't realise that for many women despite their good looks may have terrible self images because they live in fear that their image is not up to the expectations of the world.. where does that come from?? It comes the unrealistic portrayals of women that are re-iterated again and again. This image being only one in a sea of them.

>>I don't happen to think the image is particularly 'hot' or arousing, it's a 3d woman for goodness sake, but neither do I think it is very offensive to women either. I find a stream of 3d images of women like this rather routine, but I appreciate the skill that goes into creating them.

I glad to hear that.. I'm I glad that other people have made the same statement.. it's good to know that there are some people who are not driven by their hormones only. But when you say "it's a 3d woman" you are objectying. As if somehow because it is a representation of a woman that it's symolic power is irrelevant?? It's clear that this object has quite alot of power but my criticism that those who look at it especially boys who are impressionable will walk away and impose the woman as sex object onto the women around them. Have you ever seen the movie Bamboozled.. it covers the subject of racist iconography and explores that concept that even if you are a member of the group that has been oppressed and are surrounded by negative imagery that using that imagery for your own impowerment can be a double edged sword. There are many women in the sex industry who have tried to take a hold of their careers and there are more female directors of pornography but the truth is still that the general public see pornographers as degenerates. It takes effort to create pronography.. but would you go out of your way to defend a maker of pornographic films or do you say to yourself.. I don't want to be associated with those smut makers.


>>>Incidentally 'fanboy' could be seen as a sexist term - are you suggesting only men make pointless drooling comments over every pretty bit of 3d they see? Or is it not sexist because you used it and you understand these things. Then again, who cares about the written word, as long as there are enough of them.

I'm not familiar with the origin of the phrase fanboy but it is common knowledge that this is a male dominated industry and of the females posters I know of her the ones who have commented stated that they were not attracted to images of nude females. That is some kind of myth.. the women I know have allways said that ideas , thoughts and communication are attractive and that they do not respond to visual stimulus like men do.

Language is becoming a lost art form. For example .. emoticons being so prevelant on the net.. why bother type something so mundane when it can be replaced with a cute icon. You would take it futher. Why express yourself through words at all.. Does it anger people these days to have to read and understand language?

Perhaps if the image in question had been smaller I would not have noticed the hands.. or perhaps if he had not shown the wireframes I would not have had reasons to talk about the hand and feet being cut off another model. Or if he had not put a link in his profile to his website I would not have tried to research the artist to get some kind of insight into his process. After having done all that .. I must be crazy to talk about it.. language is for fools these days who coudl waste their time with somhtign so time consuming as language? Anyone who could talk at length about art must be a critic. Artist should nail their mouths shut at the mere idea of talking about art and have passionate discussions of it. If they do talk about art it should be done in secrecy behind locked doors for fear that the fanboys or the artist beign critcised might be offended. Oh my.. intellectualism.. how shameful of me.

Balls in your court..

gmask
10-12-2003, 08:18 PM
>>>2. What I don`t understand, that there are many critics about details, which are not photoreal. Even the whole image is not photoreal, so I don`t really understand why the hand should look perfect. It`s a totally different style, closer to the manga, than to the traditional styles.

I'm just comparing it to the other images ont he guys website that have much attention to the rendering and have more subtlies in the tones etc.

You can argue that is a different style but the rendering is anything but comic book style (Manga).

>>>And if you take time to look at some painters of the 20th century you might see more stylized limbs than this character has. We have great painters, who made anatomically awful characters, unbelieveble proportioned humans, but they succeeded to make an IMPRESSION. I think art has no other goal, to make impression. Impression to the artist itself, and to the public as well. Replicating life is not always targeted by artists. Look at the final fantasy games cinemtaics...They are brilliant. Technically, visually.Our problem is sometimes, that we don`t get the impression, we are looking for details hard to do (hands, eyes, etc.), and if we are not satisfied, the rest doesn`t count.

Yes and you also look at these artist bodies of work and then have threads that run through them.. their style evolves through a series of works so I look at this artists series of works ..not just the one we see here.

The only impression that is beign responded to here is titilation. If the hands had been perfect in this piece I would no more be attracted to it's titilation than before. But in regards to painters who explored other forms of expression besides the replication or approximation of reality this does not come close to that kind of expression .

Abstract art in CG is very unappreciated here.. I did an abstract animation years back and someone described it as being equivalent to wallpaper... which it was anything but. I took years for abstract art to be accepted into fine arts. I don't think many people understand the art of CG outside the notion of reproducing reality. I do and I have criticsed this work for that. I didn't intially invovle my other thoughts onthe content because I know that the age and maturity level of the fanboys is below a point where an intelligent discussion can be had. Heck I'm beign attacked for wanting to have a discussion period becaus eit interrupts the flow of mindless compliments.

>>>About Gollum. Gollum is wowed not for being an ugly male, but for being the most complex cg character done. With actor Andy Serkis behind it lived on the screen. I`m sure that Gollum-like female would be wowed if the same quality would be presented.
I`m looking for Winky, I think Winky is female houseelf from Harry Potter 4...

I couldn't find any info on Winky.. but I comparison to the Gollum I cannot think of a single reproduction of it here whereas there have been numerous ones of the Gollum.

Anyway.. can you think of a single female character that was popular that was not attractive in a traditional sense? I don't think there are any.. whereas male characters can be ugly and popular. Yoda for example... can't a female yoda be cute and sagey?

j3st3r
10-12-2003, 08:50 PM
gmask, you hit the nail on the head. Subject is very important...It would be nice to make a challenge on ugly female character. Just to balance the current trends towards the beautiful women (although I`m working on a not ungly asian woman)

Anyway, I see your point, and I see those, who are stunned. As I always said, art is subjective. What is art to you, not necessarily art to me, or to any other people. But that`s good.

Hopefully someone will translate this thread to the author of this image, and he will learn of it.

gmask
10-12-2003, 09:12 PM
>>>gmask, you hit the nail on the head. Subject is very important...It would be nice to make a challenge on ugly female character. Just to balance the current trends towards the beautiful women (although I`m working on a not ungly asian woman)

Right yours is not un-ugly .. she is realistic rather than an idealised fantasy.


>>>Anyway, I see your point, and I see those, who are stunned. As I always said, art is subjective. What is art to you, not necessarily art to me, or to any other people. But that`s good.

This peice I guess is art for the young male mass.. there is a huge market for it no doubt but I'm serious about the effect this kind of work has on the viewers perception of real women and the fundamental double standard of genders. Art is in no way exempt from such discussions. It's not about being politically correct as much as it is simply being issue aware.

>>>Hopefully someone will translate this thread to the author of this image, and he will learn of it.

I tried out a language translator and then reversed the translation. Those things don't work so well. :D so I hope a person translates.

Opeth
10-12-2003, 09:22 PM
i realized a while ago that all cg girls are sexy or meant to be, which is stupid.. right after STARCRAFT:GHOST was introduced i think.. so i made my own version of the sc ghost character.. just a quick ps sketch
:)))

here she is, her name is Gregory. (JK)

http://www.davids-gallery.com/Drawings/ghost.jpg

gmask
10-12-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Opeth
i realized a while ago that all cg girls are sexy or meant to be, which is stupid.. right after STARCRAFT:GHOST was introduced i think.. so i made my own version of the sc ghost character.. just a quick ps sketch
:)))

here she is, her name is Gregory. (JK)


Nice concept.. you should make her 3D .. never met a girl named gregory though :surprised she looks like she could kick some cyborg fanboy (I mean fan person) ass.

I've just noticed that in the last week forum is getting a flood of softcore subject matter and it's bit ridiculous.. at this rate this it will become 3d porn site by the end of the year.

Dave Black
10-12-2003, 10:42 PM
Opeth: While we appreciate your input on all this, it's sorta bad form to post your own work in someone else's thread. You may want to make that into a link, and not a vB Coded image.

I just wanted to mention a few points, though Gmask has pretty well summed it up.

It seems that there is a battle of extremes. Making an image such as this is one extreme. It's a "perfect" or rather a stylized/distorted view of beauty based on one man's(or possibly a collective) vision of beauty. j3st3r has mentioned that someone needs to make an ugly woman in order to balance out the forum. I think this is another extreme. Art for the sake of denouncing another form of art seems like quite the waste of time. In fact, I almost feel it to be petty. (no offence j3st3r).

I think it's possible to create a vision of feminine beauty that rings of different tones. Most Women depicted on this forum seem to fall into 2 traps. Women = Sex, and Woman = Struggle For Dominance. Is it possible that women have a more subtle and interesting beauty that can be captured in a digital medium? Can you show a beauty that goes beyond the mere curves? It seems sorta cheap to me. Like cheating. Like in movies of our time, if a man and a woman are in love, they have sex. This is how we are told they are in love. Instead of actually taking the time to grow and develop this relationship on screen, we are simply shown the cheap way. The same is true in this instance. Female Beauty = Sex.

Just some thoughts, I still think most of it is well modeled even though I dislike the entirety of the subject matter.

-3DZ

:D

gmask
10-12-2003, 11:03 PM
>>>I think it's possible to create a vision of feminine beauty that rings of different tones. Most Women depicted on this forum seem to fall into 2 traps. Women = Sex, and Woman = Struggle For Dominance. Is it possible that women have a more subtle and interesting beauty that can be captured in a digital medium? Can you show a beauty that goes beyond the mere curves? It seems sorta cheap to me. Like cheating. Like in movies of our time, if a man and a woman are in love, they have sex. This is how we are told they are in love. Instead of actually taking the time to grow and develop this relationship on screen, we are simply shown the cheap way. The same is true in this instance. Female Beauty = Sex.

Kudos this is a very estute analysis. I do see occasionally other representations of women here but they get quickly buried by the purient ones. If there was a seperate forum for the "Female Beauty = Sex" variety it would be very very full.

I really see no need for the overtly sexual ones to be shown here .. I'm not including this work in with that cause in comparison to some I have seen lately this is at least tastefully erotic. CG work should not represent women solely as sex objects.. good technique or not does not justify it.

HecM
10-13-2003, 01:29 AM
For someone whose work is rather mediocre (I actually bothered to search some) at this point, you certainly have waaay too much lip. You turned this thread into a thread about your poitless rambling and I'm mad at myself for even reading some of them. You seriously need to stop making so many long comments about other people's work and worry about yours. I'm a believer that when it comes to art the validity of certain critiques and opinions is limited by what those who make the criticism can do themselves.
In other words the opinions that matter most in many cases are those coming from those who are already successfull in the field in discussion. This guy is already successfull in his country and his field and like everyone he's still evolving, but I doubt that all your ramblings would help him any... and I doubt that anyone is going to bother translate them all for him.
This is my first and last comment to you (gmask) so don't bother reply with you long ramblings... I'm going back to work, you should too man. Take care,

yaotl

gmask
10-13-2003, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by yaotl
For someone whose work is rather mediocre (I actually bothered to search some) at this point, you certainly have waaay too much lip.

Uh yeah whatever.. you're really mature dude. I got your lip right here :buttrock:

>>I'm a believer that when it comes to art the validity of certain critiques and opinions is limited by what those who make the criticism can do themselves.

If I ever need a criticism of a wolverine knockoff I'll be sure to ask you about it. :love:

>>>In other words the opinions that matter most in many cases are those coming from those who are already successfull in the field in discussion. This guy is already successfull in his country and his field and like everyone he's still evolving, but I doubt that all your ramblings would help him any... and I doubt that anyone is going to bother translate them all for him.

Disscussion of art does not have to come back to the artist who made the work. I could care less if my thoughts on the matter where translated.. that's not the point of my making them.

leigh
10-13-2003, 02:26 AM
Hey guys, please keep this thread peaceful. The flames are getting a little too hot and a little too wild.

maverick2
10-13-2003, 02:39 AM
dont want to make any more problem here so im not expecting a reply but i think we have to make things clear because some of us are really getting piss about gmask.I totally agree with (yaotl). gmask is filing the thread with useless mesage and critics.I have no problem with people making crits but sometimes its just to much.And it would be cool if we could see some of your work cuz u have never post a single picture of what u can do.

gmask
10-13-2003, 02:43 AM
Did you look at my sig? I participated in the last classic challenge. (Freakshow Legman) Okay so my entry was not a hot female .. I was trying to be creative. You got two posts and no work at all shown so... wha gives?

Sometimes 100's of droolers is too much as well :drool:

Antonbomb22
10-13-2003, 02:57 AM
A++, very nice!:eek: :drool:

Witchy
10-13-2003, 04:29 AM
>>First I will start by saying that I'm not angry about this work nor should you be about anything I have said about it.

I am not angry nor even mildly annoyed. I see other people are but I don't approach this like that and that reference and the one in which you suggest you have annoyed me are misplaced - there are things I get annoyed about, people posting on a 3d forum is rarely one of them. In the great scheme of things this is hardly life threatening. I think it is possible to have a debate in which two people disagree without being angry, if you do as well you might refrain from suggesting that I am angry simply because I disagree with you.

>>Okay well think about this.. it is pretty much plaigarism to take a image that a photographer or another visual artist created and then repaint it or add a few details and call it your own art. It may take alot of skill to actually do this but you are taking someoneelse's creativity and having your way with it. This is another issue that has nothing to do with my comments on this thread.

Yes it is and plaigarism is wrong.

But my point, which I made more than once, is that there are different ways of 'policing' plaigarism.

There is a macabre celebratory tendency in the posts of many people who see it is as their personal responsibility to hunt out fakes. It not only means there is a would be hysteria to fake hunting, it means that all work, judged by this group of arbitrary and self appointed fake hunters, is pounced upon. This leads to both unpleasantness, rabble rousing and furious arguments, when all it needed was a conversation with the artist. If you converse with someone and they say hey yes its poser, or whatever, then post that and let them post and explain why they did not say so. But no we have to have the morally self righteous who seek to lead us in condemnation.

That is not keeping it real that is keeping it condemnatory and stopping this board being constructive. Keeping it real would be being constructive in my view, because reasonable adults do not slam each other and fight - just because this is the internet and not real life does not mean we should aim as low as people here do.

>>I have given constructive criticism . It's just not the criticisms you want to hear.. it's not even your work and you are offended.

That is rather silly as well as untrue. Why would proper artistic criticism offend me? I welcome constructive criticism, I was making the point that I don't welcome rabble rousing. Fanboys and slammers are what makes this board a deeply unpleasant place for people not in the 'club' to post their work.

>>As usual because I have something to say those who disagree want to criticise me for being verbose.. I'm not comparring my writing to Mozart but you might as well tell him that he writes music with too many notes.

Perhaps you deliberately misunderstood my point. You asked for 500 words, you did not suggest those 500 words should even be constructive. You suggested a battle of numbers not an argument and discussion of the issues.

You seem to equate quantity with quality, I am afraid I don't share that view. As for you being verbose I am not auditor of the words in your posts, if you consider yourself verbose that's fine, but don't ask for replies in terms of the number of words and expect to be seen as interested in content- you are not teaching a class and people can make an argument in any number of words that might be as if not more valid than yours.

Long posts do not mean you are right, they just mean you expressed youir opinion in a greater number of words; I prefer to judge your views on context and content not wordcount, this is not junior school.

>>It takes effort to create pronography.. but would you go out of your way to defend a maker of pornographic films or do you say to yourself.. I don't want to be associated with those smut makers.

If, and it is a big if, the people making it were fully consensual and knew what they were doing, and had made a choice and were free to make others then yes, I would defend their right to make something for which there is a market. However the comparison is not really relevant as this is about art not porn.

I don't think porn is art, far from it, but I do think that it serves a market desire. In the majority of cases one can no more be assured of consensual choices made by participants than of flying to mars on a magic carpet, so I would not defend it. In terms of debasing women and indeed men I think the porn industry has a great deal to answer for. But it does not create stereotypes, it feeds them. It is like prostitution; I think trying to ban it is narrow minded, I would far prefer to see women who are engaged in it having choices and being properly protected, but we continue, as a western society, to demonise it and indeed to some extent all issues of sexuality.

If there was a full and frank discussion with young people over sex education perhaps we might not, in my country, have the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in Europe. But that is not changed by disliking young men drooling over semi naked women - that is hardly a new phenomenon. The Romans had porn etc etc.

The issue is whether such things are art at all and whether these young men judge images of women in seductive poses as art and on that point I happen to agree with you - I don't think they do. But then a pleasing image can be many things, an object of artistic desire or masturbatory fantasy, who are we to police that. If one looks at the form and function of art isn't arousal a consequence of some art that we would exault?

While you might wish to tell me I endorse sexism by saying it is 'just 3d women' you say you took part in the 3d challenge about sideshow acts. Perhaps for that you considered peoples view of the disabled and people forced into begging and performing in those and modern times to make ends meet. Perhaps you looked at the people laughing their heads of at people with no brains and thought, oh dear that's not good for the image of disabled people and will not help to counter popular stereotypes. Or perhaps your sensitivty to minority rights is only confined to complaining about young men drooling over naked women.

Fanboy might be an acepted term, does that automatically make it right?

I happen to agree that emoticons are unhelpful to criticism, in fact I think on a forum where you want truly constructive criticism getting rid of them might seem a decent solution, however people would probably post their own. It is a very difficult balance for a site like this to strike however - if you stopped all complimentary comments artists would not receive the moral support they actually do need. Sometimes a little 'good work keep going but do this and this' can make all the difference.

On a final note suggesting that anyone who debates with you is against criticism and that you are somehow operating in a world of appreciative intellectualism of which the rest of us can only dream, is not going to make people listen to your points, it is more likely to be seen as an attempt to offer offence. Given you then stated I was offended perhaps you do mean to offend and to suggest that if I do not agree with everything you say I am somehow intellectually inferior. I shall keep my own view on that and allow you to be happy in that world, if you want to create it, but I would suggest that he who shouts 'you are dumb' in 3 words is likely to receive a similar reply to he who says it in 500, it will simply be phrased differently.

To the other people who say Gmask is filling this thread with useless criticisms firstly you do not have to read them and second I see very little complaint about the 500 drooling smilies that don't even bother to say well done but simply wish to wank and go.

I don't happen to agree with some of what he says but he has as much right to say it as you do to complain about it. That's what discussions are meant to be about. Discussing. Shouting 'shut up man this is awsome dood' is not discussion, it is silly childish aggression and that's actually more of a problem here than someone criticising work you happen to like.

gmask
10-13-2003, 05:06 AM
>>>I think it is posible to have a debate in which two people disagree without being angry, if you do as well you might refrain from suggesting that I am angry simply because I disagree with you.

Agreed and thanks for the repsonse. Again I may edit just to avoid redundancy..


>>>There is a macabre celebratory tendency in the posts of many people who see it is as their personal responsibility to hunt out fakes.

Okay honestly.. that wasn't my intention.. I did find it odd that the hands were particularily weak and then noticing the seams made wonder what was up. It seems unlikely a response will be had from the artist so I did some investigating on his website and got at least part of an answer.


>>>That is not keeping it real that is keeping it condemnatory and stopping this board being constructive. Keeping it real would be being constructive in my view, because reasonable adults do not slam each other and fight - just because this is the internet and not real life does not mean we should aim as low as people here do.

Even if I didn't do it on tip toes no real criticism had been given.. maybe one other post before mine. Reasons why one might not want to are that if they say it wrong the throngs may turn on them. I'm not afraid of that..I said what I said and that's that.

>>>Fanboys and slammers are what makes this board a deeply unpleasant place for people not in the 'club' to post their work.

Yes well I have been called out as an artist by a person with two posts that's about as ridiciulous as it gets.. I mean the notion that some one who has shown works is less qualified to give good or bad crits than loads of them with no apparent expertise in the field at all baffles me. I'm not a fan of either approach and I don't like when people say things like that's sux and then don't support their reasons. I think I have supported mine.. some agree.. I feel vindicated.

>>>Perhaps you deliberately misunderstood my point. You asked for 500 words, you did not suggest those 500 words should even be constructive. You suggested a battle of numbers not an argument and discussion of the issues.

Hey if your reponse had only been 499 words I wouldn't have cared as long as your response was intellectual. Going back in forth with one or two sentaces is not an effective way to communicate on every subject.. I wanted to have a real conversation not just a juvenile challenge of words and I think i have gotten the best reponses form some that I could hope for yourself included.


>>I don't think porn is art, far from it, but I do think that it serves a market desire. In the majority of cases one can no more be assured of consensual choices made by participants than of flying to mars on a magic carpet, so I would not defend it. In terms of debasing women and indeed men I think the porn industry has a great deal to answer for. But it does not create stereotypes, it feeds them.

Yes be were are talking shades of grey.. the defintion of what is pornographic at least here in the US is ridiculously vague and from the stand point of the laws involved it's too vague. Anyway without imposing morals on people it's a good idea to have boundaries. I have seen people post stuff elsewhere that was truly offensive.

Society creates stereotypes and the media and entertainment reinforces and profits from it.. they did not come about on their own so I disagree with you there. Sex sells.. many things not just porn.

Some places have historically treated women like dirt and have only recently started to get out of the dark ages.

>>If there was a full and frank discussion with young people over sex education perhaps we might not, in my country, have the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in Europe. But that is not changed by disliking young men drooling over semi naked women - that is hardly a new phenomenon. The Romans had porn etc etc.

Besides sex education I'm talking about respect.. yes women are beautiful creatures.. but just try walking up to one and say I respect you but all I can think of it how beautiful you would be naked... you'd probably get slapped in the face.


>>>The issue is whether such things are art at all and whether these young men judge images of women in seductive poses as art and on that point I happen to agree with you - I don't think they do. But then a pleasing image can be many things, an object of artistic desire or masturbatory fantasy, who are we to police that. If one looks at the form and function of art isn't arousal a consequence of some art that we would exault?

Well there is a fine line.. and there is a responsibilty of people who run this site to maintain a certain standard.. it's not a free for all.. and you definately cannot post images portraying sex acts here... It's illegal.

>>>While you might wish to tell me I endorse sexism by saying it is 'just 3d women' you say you took part in the 3d challenge about sideshow acts. Perhaps for that you considered peoples view of the disabled and people forced into begging and performing in those and modern times to make ends meet. Perhaps you looked at the people laughing their heads of at people with no brains and thought, oh dear that's not good for disabled people. Or perhaps your sensitivty to minority rights is only confined to complaining about young men drooling over naked women.

Nice one.. but I didn't do it casually or to mock handicaps and clearly there was some concious about the challenge and a reason. The movie The Elephant Man for example is a portrayal about such a man and a powerful story I don't think it trivializes his plight whereas by sheer volume it's hard to take all the sexy images of women as serious attempts to empower them but more just exploitation. Also my entry was inspired by a drawing I had done after the first time I had ever seen an image by Joel Peter Witkin .. he of course is somewhat contraversial. His work even through highly regarded is hardly a commodity like the the image of nude women are treated.

My other issue is that there is a world of ideas.. and there is much talent and it seems wasted on such a common and low brow topic as hot chicks.. but that's what gets the praise... not guys with arms for legs.

>>>if you stopped all complimentary comments artists would not receive the moral support they actually do need. Sometimes a little 'good work keep going but do this and this' can make all the difference.

You can allways email the artist.. what's wrong with that or better yet buy a print of their work.

>>>That's what discussions are meant to be about. Discussing.

Yup.

>>Shouting 'shut up man this is awsome' is not discussion, it is silly childish aggression and that's actually more of a problem here than someone criticising work you happen to like.

Thanks :)

mirainokirby
10-13-2003, 07:23 AM
uh..so theres a lot of "debating" and whatnot happening in here, but it's a very simple anwser to you question/observation GMASK. now most things in the world (war for example) would be very hard to change or influence. but that's the beauty of art, if all you see is something you don't like and wish you would see it different, than take that idea out of your head and slap it on a sheet of paper or into a 3d package and post us a render or scan of it. so in other words (no offense..i mean it) stop crying and create something better.

gmask
10-13-2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by mirainokirby
uh..so theres a lot of "debating" and whatnot happening in here, but it's a very simple anwser to you question/observation GMASK. now most things in the world (war for example) would be very hard to change or influence. but that's the beauty of art, if all you see is something you don't like and wish you would see it different, than take that idea out of your head and slap it on a sheet of paper or into a 3d package and post us a render or scan of it. so in other words (no offense..i mean it) stop crying and create something better.

Debating is good.. there is nothing wrong with that as some may think.

I'm certainly not trying to change the world through this one thread or website.. gimme a break.

You have to admit that if I had started a thread on this subject on it's own I doubt it would get as many reads or illicit quite the same response.

Zappa
10-13-2003, 07:30 AM
Hey!Gmask,

I think most everyone here respects your feedback and regard your opinion as coming from a senior member of the community, and therefore i dont think anyone is angry however we all need to strive hard to "keep it real" :)

Ok , i agree with you that this guy probably took the feet and hands off his previous model (which by itself is no crime).....If it came off a poser model i would definitely frown upon it, but its no reason to run his entire work down.

As far as the sexist angle, its sad to pick up one guys work and blame him for all the ills in the world, if anything its only a reflection of the society we live in.what with the topless bars, the erotic dance places, lap dances, peep shows and whathaveyou..

As far as im concerned the idea of posting nudes or semi nudes on the forum stemmed from showcasing and receiving crits on ones knowledge/study of human anatomy and therefore it was only considered normal to post nude model pics (be it male or female). Isn't there a nude model in every life drawing class?? Is that sexist?or not respectful of women?I think its very difficult to draw a line separating art from smut, cause what one man considers art would be what another sees as suggestive or leaning towards porn.I feel this very private and is based upon each persons perception and social circumstance etc.there can be no collective consciousness on this.
I personally regret the fact that nude female postings attract far more attention than a regular pic of, say a vehicle or a environment.However i think everyone has the artistic right to create what they like and post here as long as its with limits of decency.Having said that, i think the right thing to do for anyone offended by nudity is to take up the matter with the mods to have a separate forum for the nudie pic postings.
I feel we should kool off on the childish name calling..."Fanboys" n "slammers" etc...i think everyone here has a right to voice their opinions be it supportive or otherwise.
Im personally not angry with any posting here, however the one from Opeth was annoying to say the least, cause he thinks that anyone not agreeable to his point of view are of a low intelligence level!!How callous can one get?
Anyways i guess we all need to chill and drink that ol'pint :-)

hku64...dude..you have the right to...er... remain silent :D


Cheers :beer:
zappa

gmask
10-13-2003, 07:46 AM
>>>If it came off a poser model i would definitely frown upon it, but its no reason to run his entire work down.

I only have time now to respond to these parts at this hour...

Actually I had a look at the rest of his work and tried to access what I like about it. This piece is not my favorite.. even I hadn't of mentioned the "p***r" word I doubt may tryign to compare it to previous works as saying this one was not as good would have went over well.

>>>As far as the sexist angle, its sad to pick up one guys work and blame him for all the ills in the world, if anything its only a reflection of the society we live in.

True.. and I do think we shoudl pu this kind of stuff in one section. But sitll there is no reason to not talk about this stuff.. I am not blaming him for the ills of the world.. c'mon

thanks ;-)

pureprplaya
10-13-2003, 01:49 PM
WoW... simply amazing, u heard it lots of times already here but good lord, that has to be one of the IF NOT the most BEAUTIFUL CG picture I have EVER seen in my life... I'd like someone to show me something better

bullethead
10-13-2003, 02:40 PM
Excuse me for my french but for ****S sake what the hell is wrong with you gmask...I can see you have your opinions on the art work Im fine with that..but its a goddamn 3d model not real character....NOTICE THE NOT REAL...who cares if "fanboys" are drooling over the pic..I could only dream to model that well...hell texturing that good also.

See Im new to the whole 3d model thing..ive been doing it for proabably a year now...and seeing an image like this inspires me...but when I see replies like yours it makes me not want to show anywork of mine when you start getting into fanboys...cause I would just want people to like what I made...I could care less for the crits cause they dont help out any....."oh uhhhht the fingers are tubby looking"....see I would read that and be like:shrug:

I wouldnt care...Im not gonna open the model up again and remake the hands. So I dont see the points for crits and I dont care for em...and also considering the guy that made the model cant even speak or understand ENGLISH...what makes you think this long debate is gonna effect him?!?!?!?! It wont. plain and simple.

oh and by the way...I LOVE THE PIC IS SO AWESOME:drool: :drool: .......

Note to self: be more of a "fanboy"

Hostil Elektrod
10-13-2003, 03:13 PM
OMFG! thats impressive work!
u have five stars job

OMG I need a realsize poster of them :love:

gmask
10-13-2003, 05:05 PM
>>>I wouldnt care...Im not gonna open the model up again and remake the hands. So I dont see the points for crits and I dont care for em...

You'll have to take criticisms everynow and then..wether you lik it or not especially from clients.. that is if you are actually planning on working in the indiustry

Hostil Elektrod
10-13-2003, 05:20 PM
again Marvellous :eek:
Impressive finishing... :buttrock: :applause:

Kinjiru
10-13-2003, 05:29 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

and this is why I feel really really small....

just amazing!

the best i've seen

hellbender
10-13-2003, 06:47 PM
-gmask-

Why don't you ask permission to (or directly) open a new thread about these subjects and continue all that over there? This is WASTING others's space, you have told your opinion as everyone has about the pics posted here, but it seems to me that things are gone a little over.

New Thread will gather opinions of all that ppl that cares about the subject you talk about, as this thread is for peoples that have comments about THIS work, not about your opinion.

Moreover isn't respectful writing here such a long and articulated discussions when the artist can't understand what you say, probably asking himself what this stuff have to do with his work.

My Humble opinion and point of view, that is strictly mine and not law neither common thought, is that i like 3d chicks, i like THIS chick, i dont care if an image is defined "art" or not by others if i like it, i dont care if there are technical mistakes if they don't ruin my sense of beauty or my taste for that image, and if you wanna know i feel normal also with my restricted point of view and my twistness. I know fortunately there are people that estimate things wich i never look at.

About the fanboys, negating them to drool on other's works it's negating other people to say theyr opinion, they have the same right as you to write there, until what they write isn't offensive or so.

excuse me for my english, i'll not post again here, i've just told my opinion once, while many of you have not.

3D Freak
10-13-2003, 06:53 PM
This is incredible work!!!:applause: The only thing I could think of to crit would be the textures, but that's only if you wanted to make it look more realistic. Personally I like the style you have going now, it's very nice. As far as the hands go- I feel they look fine, even if they did come off of your Kishars model- it was a fantastic model as well. Your work is amazing & I hope to one day be at your level. Can't wait to see more of your work in the future- :beer: 3DF.

gmask
10-13-2003, 07:13 PM
>>This is WASTING others's space, you have told your opinion as everyone has about the pics posted here, but it seems to me that things are gone a little over.


Wasting space, in a virtual world?? This thread has consumed quite abit of space of it's own minus my comments. The subject of fanboys has spread to many other threads allready..I certainly don't feel the need at this point or have the inclination to start another one on the subject.

Aren't you wasting space here too?.. why not address this issue in one of the other threads.. instead of here.

I've never had a conversation with Warhol but I sure did talk about him alot when he was alive and after he died.. I give it was inappropriate for me to do so because he would never have heard any of my comments either way. :rolleyes:

SangHanArt
10-14-2003, 02:03 AM
Overall, impressive work. I think the artist has a level of consistency and style that I apprechiate.

gmask: speaking of clients, i wonder what this project was for

Time, budget and audience are certainly issues to be considered.

One last thing, saying the hands need more work because they are inconsistent with the overall piece is ok. saying they look like poser hands is obviously a different kind of comment, when poser is widely looked down upon in the 3D community. That's where the negative connotation comes from. I could be wrong.

gmask
10-14-2003, 02:09 AM
>>>One last thing, saying the hands need more work because they are inconsistent with the overall piece is ok. saying they look like poser hands is obviously a different kind of comment, when poser is widely looked down upon in the 3D community. That's where the negative connotation comes from. I could be wrong.

I don't wish to flog a dead horse but there are those who say it doesn't matter.. I would suggest that based on the strong reaction to even suggesting that it might be.. that it does matter.. alot. whatever..:shrug:

Witchy
10-14-2003, 02:19 AM
I think you are probably confusing things that matter with things people are happy to pointlessly argue over on the internet for no particular reason. Let's not pretend this debate is more than it is - just like every other argument one reads in every forum like this noone is having their views altered or affected and noone cares for the views of others. I enjoy a debate as much as the next chap but we are not changing the world here and if you sat down you could write this thread out yourself with all it's predictable comments.

gmask
10-14-2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Witchy
I think you are probably confusing things that matter with things people are happy to pointlessly argue over on the internet for no particular reason. Let's not pretend this debate is more than it is - just like every other argument one reads in every forum like this noone is having their views altered or affected and noone cares for the views of others. I enjoy a debate as much as the next chap but we are not changing the world here and if you sat down you could write this thread out yourself with all it's predictable comments.

Okay then so this is one of those thigns that only matters to people who like to debate over things that don't matter to everyone else and I know that you know that she knows that if they knew what I know then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Anyway.. I'll avoid mentioning the P***r word again as it's way to Provocative and the insueing debates are way more rhetorical than is required for talking about "art" mean to titilate. :drool:

tengoku
10-14-2003, 02:44 AM
Man, and I was planning to say something NICE for my first post, but I'm afraid I have to speak out against gmask.

Although gmask's cause is a noble one, his approach has been anything but. I actually think he has a problem with the artist because the artist likes to draw women. Well I have read every single post and that's the general feeling I get anyway.

Firstly, he accuses the artist of using a poser' hands. Then he makes the statement that gmask is not a "fanboy", thus suggesting that everyone who does like the picture is a fanboy.

Well I actually like this picture and I think the hands look fine. If the artist stole the hands from somewhere (which there's no real evidence that he did) then that's obviously bad, but it looks more to me like the artist is just recycling his stuff which is perfectly understandable.

I don't think what gmask said was constructive criticism at all. The original comment which got this whole thing started was:

Looks like the hands and feet were cut off some other model and tacked on.. notice the seam in the mesh around the ankles. The hands god forbid look to me like they came from a poser model .. I dunno about the rest of it.

For starters he wasn't even addressing the artist... he was addressing us. He's like saying, "Look what I found everyone, this artist is using a hand from somewhere else!"

That's not constructive criticism at all. That to me sounds like a deliberate attack on the artist's techniques. This is a forum and the artist is very much part of the discussion (although in this case he may not be). If you're gonna critique something, at least have the courtesy of directing it to the artist.

Here's some more of gmask's quotes:

This one made me laugh out loud.. I dunno it's kind of absurd.. and combines a bit too much sexuality with the cutsey school girl look.. warning some might find this image disturbing

For those of you who never read the original post or bothered to click on the link, the picture depicts a naked teenage girl riding a broom stick. Woopee-doo. I looked at it and sure it looks silly but I didn't find it "absurd" or "distubing". GMask's choice of words suggest he is trying to put down the artist. He's saying, "Look everyone, look how stupid and perverted this artist is."

Well I find that comment by GMask very offensive. I'd hate to draw something only to have someone laugh at it and say how absurd it looks.

This artist obviously loves to draw women but what exactly is wrong with that?

I also found it offensive how gmask only picked on the bad points and did not even bother to complement on the rest of the picture. Sure you don't have to, but it would be NICE that if you have something bad to say, you should counteract that by saying something good as well. If you don't like the whole composition then say what's wrong with it instead of focusing on one aspect.

If you ask me, GMask had every intention of making the artist look bad because it seems like gmask is on a personal crusade to stamp out "fanboy" stuff.

Well to be fair on gmask, he may have done it without even realising it. I've only read his comments on this thread so I actually don't know what he's REALLY like. For all I know he could be a really nice guy. It's just that on this particular thread, he made a bad impression on me.

I apologise in advance, gmask. I'm not trying to attack you although it appears I have done just that. I just felt that you went a little to far and your approach was all wrong.

Well I just hope that if the artist is aware of what's going on here, that it doesn't deter him from posting ever again. I now know that I have some reservations about posting my art here. I'm not a very good artist compared to some ppl on here, and the last thing I want is someone telling me how absurd my drawings are.

Sorry for the long post everyone.

gmask
10-14-2003, 02:57 AM
>>Man, and I was planning to say something NICE for my first post, but I'm afraid I have to speak out against gmask.

I'll drop it if you will

>>For those of you who never read the original post or bothered to click on the link, the picture depicts a naked teenage girl riding a broom stick. Woopee-doo.

Well I'm just saying that the overt sexuality with the depiction of a child is inappropriate and to me her age is that of about a 16 year old. Could he not at least put a bra on her...

>>>I also found it offensive how gmask only picked on the bad points and did not even bother to complement on the rest of the picture.

Well Actually I did compliment the last image I linked on that post.
And so what if I didn't compliment any part of the others.. is there some unwritten rule that says crticism must come with a compliment.. if that's the case then I say there must be criticism given with compliments and pretty much everyone else in this thread is guilty of not giving one of each.


>>If you ask me, GMask had every intention of making the artist look bad because it seems like gmask is on a personal crusade to stamp out "fanboy" stuff.

That was not my intention.. I just thought the hands looked bad and I said so and things got out of control after that.

>>Well to be fair on gmask, he may have done it without even realising it. I've only read his comments on this thread so I actually don't know what he's REALLY like. For all I know he could be a really nice guy. It's just that on this particular thread, he made a bad impression on me.

Read up on my other threads.. there's alot of good work here that explores other subject matter and I post to them. I give alot of help to users here.

>>>I apologise in advance, gmask. I'm not trying to attack you although it appears I have done just that. I just felt that you went a little to far and your approach was all wrong.

Thanks, This thread is not diffusing itself so .. I'll try to stop posting to it. I'm also going to remove some of the comments that kept reigniting the fire as well.

facial
10-14-2003, 05:18 AM
Woooow. Nice character here, and i guess it from south Korea when i see it fist time. LOL
Well done !

tobiasth
10-14-2003, 08:49 AM
i love it, really great!!! :beer:

Jelinek
10-14-2003, 10:23 AM
WOW!

I have no words. Amazing! :thumbsup:

oxhido
10-14-2003, 12:48 PM
just beautiful...

congratulations

grayfox3d
10-14-2003, 01:40 PM
Whats the poly count on that baby?

Amazing work :thumbsup:

stv
10-14-2003, 05:01 PM
oh god, at first sight i tought was an inllustration!!!
:applause: :applause: :applause:

ToddD
10-14-2003, 06:34 PM
At this point I think you guys should just start a new thread to debate these issues. It is, IMO, disrespectful to the artist, especially as he may not understand the 1000 word disertations every other post. I'm not saying I disagree with Gmask, I have questioned some of what I've seen and not seen(unsmoothed mesh) as well, but at face value this is a visually appealing image lets leave it at that and get back on track, hijacking this post is stealing the glory of the achievement, regardless of how it was achieved.

About fanboys, we will always have them, most irritating of all to me are the people who feel it their duty to announce "this is front page material". Sorry but someone with 10 posts, just starting out should not speak for the many accomplished artists in here. If a moderator feels an image belongs there, it will end up on the front page. How about offering some constructive crit, or even pointing out what you like about it, rather than blowing pointless sunshine up someone's dress?:shrug:

A very nice image congratulations!

applelmc
10-15-2003, 06:40 AM
o!!!!!!!!good!!!!!!! :eek:

lildragon
10-18-2003, 09:20 AM
Truly impressive work yet again, awespiring to say the least, and I'm quite happy you posted the wires, hope to see much more of your work.

You have received the CGtalk choice award .Please feel free to display this image anywhere you like! Awespiring work!

upon receiving this award, it guarantees you a spot in the cgtalk gallery hall of fame (http://gallery.cgtalk.com) - which you are now placed

http://www.cgtalk.com/plug_award/cgtalk_award_oct03.jpg

P.S. Please email me @ tito@cgnetworks.com so I can send you the award .psd file

salud

skill3d
10-20-2003, 05:18 PM
my god :drool: , I've seen more of your artworx, their just incredible :applause: , keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Daz
10-20-2003, 06:07 PM
Sure, i could do that, i just dont want to ;)

Aurorae
10-20-2003, 06:52 PM
Great work, but those wireframes are the most scary things I have ever seen in my life :eek: :buttrock:

antlu
10-21-2003, 09:38 AM
Wow. I really like her eyes

gmask
10-21-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by antlu
Wow. I really like her eyes

Anyone else notice that they are two different colors :rolleyes:

mxmine
10-22-2003, 11:26 AM
jar het dahng

?can gmask STFU?

mars2003
10-22-2003, 12:16 PM
nice work!!!!

Amilton Diesel
10-22-2003, 01:53 PM
:drool: **** man, is awesome!

Pengy
10-22-2003, 02:53 PM
gmask....

Wouldn`t a "Nope, i`m not too keen on the image myself" suffice instead of your "war and peace" ramblings..? The sexist ones especially..!! I think you must have been either stoned or REALLY stoned when you wrote most of that crap down!
OK, we get the picture... ...now FFS, STFU.!!!!



http://www.appb08.dsl.pipex.com/askstfu.jpg

gmask
10-22-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Pengy

http://www.appb08.dsl.pipex.com/askstfu.jpg


I'm one to very likely STFU

It's a simple question.. why are the eyes two different colors?what did she get her contacts mixed up. Y'know ever have one of those days where you put two different socks on?

Pengy
10-22-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by gmask
why are the eyes two different colors?

Hmmmm... ....got me there... Why not ask David Bowie the same question, uh..?

DDS
10-22-2003, 04:28 PM
wow, man you're so good. I love your works. But...how long did it take to make something so beautifully modelled? It takes my breath away.

jdsb
10-22-2003, 04:31 PM
:surprised this is breath taking
:eek:
you are crazy my friend
;) .:surprised

gmask
10-22-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Pengy
Hmmmm... ....got me there... Why not ask David Bowie the same question, uh..?

Maybe she's one of David Bowie's long lost lovechilds?

Impactor Return
10-22-2003, 04:40 PM
ok i think as bit of artwork its great.

I couldnt to be honest give a shit if the eyes are different colours or the model was from poser and other bits glued together.

You dont tell compositors thier work is rubbish because they have to work with other ppls work.

Is it a good image, yes, well produced, yes.

Technically sound, probably not, who cares?

Except it for what it is.

michaeldaubert
10-22-2003, 08:50 PM
Wow..great work..amazing detail..

I bow to your glory...:buttrock:

You need to publish a book or something!

ToFu
10-22-2003, 11:15 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gmask
why are the eyes two different colors?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It is more than likely that the artist is fan of 'Final Fantasy' game series and influenced by it because his style is very similer to them; Final Fantasy X's leading female character has two different eye colors.

gmask
10-22-2003, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by ToFu
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gmask
why are the eyes two different colors?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It is more than likely that the artist is fan of 'Final Fantasy' game series and influenced by it because his style is very similer to them; Final Fantasy X's leading female character has two different eye colors.

Thanks for that information.. that is sort of what I suspected.

SpeccySteve
10-23-2003, 04:14 PM
Woah, long thread, but an interesting one.

Speaking as one of the resident noobs, I have to say, that final wireframe is one of the most intimidating ( in a good sort of way )things I've ever seen on here, nearly as scary as the wires for Epshots SpaceWolf.

Y'know I think I almost prefer the wire shot to the finshed image for some reason, maybe because being able to see more of the flow of the fabric helps the composition ( for me anyhow ).
I'd love to know how long it took to create something like that.

Anyway, a striking image, that a lot of people clearly enjoyed.

:applause:

Gravity Eyelidz
10-23-2003, 07:27 PM
Beautiful...Awesome..I love your work...:thumbsup:

shade_E
10-23-2003, 08:02 PM
I love your work, its on my desktop and i don't get tired of it at all.. inspiring work,
Thanks for the post!!

poe
10-23-2003, 08:18 PM
why are the eyes two different colors?

why not? its perfecty possible in nature, even if its not, this is fantasy after all.

shall we start asking sci-fi oriented modellers why they are making space-craft that would break the laws of physics?

gmask
10-23-2003, 08:41 PM
>>>shall we start asking sci-fi oriented modellers why they are making space-craft that would break the laws of physics?

Why do Star Trek nerds ask William Shatner episode specific questions???

Anyway.. I allready got my answer about the eyes..

if creating abormalities was as fun as all that then why not give her three arms or 6 breasts? I'm just postulating you don't have to resond to that..

mudgift
10-23-2003, 08:51 PM
I'll play the " fanboy part" for this one ... absolutly delicious wouhou!!!!!!!
you rock like ozzy !!!:buttrock: :buttrock:

dav.bel
10-23-2003, 09:56 PM
wouhaaa !!!! :buttrock:
fantastic:thumbsup:

gmask
10-23-2003, 10:00 PM
snort snort.. she's purtee.. looks like my video game came to life.. :rolleyes:

just funning ya..

theledge
11-06-2003, 09:01 AM
great work

I dont see why people are so hung up on the minor technical flaws.
When i look at an image i look for an overall sense of the work not anaylis it in such a technical sense. every work is always going to have slight technical flaws as long as they not extremely distracting you dont even notice them.

In all of my animation i have many mistakes but when i show them to people they watch the animation as a short movie, not a display of technical brilliance.
i think this is one of the problems of computer graphics.

My animation class for example everyone gets so hung up over minor details in modelling and deformations they end up running out of time for animating and compositing. you have to look at the big picture and sacrifice certain elements in order to get the work finished in time.

im not sure how long the author had on this work but after a certain amount of time you have to move on to other steps in the work flow otherwise you never get finshed.

jin kazama
11-06-2003, 09:11 AM
why does this guy always dissapear after his first post

i really want a larger version of the image

dreamz
11-09-2003, 05:02 PM
i have no words to convey the absolutly stunning feeling loking at this fabulous artwork, congrats on the award u sure deserve it!!! :thumbsup:

bmoney
11-10-2003, 08:10 AM
Great work!! To all those people posting back and forth arguing over the artistic merit of this artwork, get over it. Everyone has their own opinion, and no-one is forcing you to display the artwork on your loungeroom wall. I think you will also find that debating back and forth over a forum is not going to sway anyones opinion. I have not seen one post resembling anything like.... "Yeh, you are right I guess, I don't like that artwork. I thought I did, and I can't believe you pointed out how dumb I am" So to save people that have jobs and lives outside of here the time of searching through the squabbles to find the meaningful critiques and advice, please refrain. This is directed at no-one in particular, I just don't have enough time to search through 16 pages of text to read what could have fit on 2 or 3. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, and sorry for falling into this trap, but It had to be said.

AveOfSpades
11-10-2003, 10:07 AM
Whoahhhhh... nice... very very nice:eek:

DoLeeP
11-10-2003, 05:57 PM
holy cow
:surprised
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

jin kazama
11-10-2003, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by jin kazama


i really want a larger version of the image

m@niak
03-24-2004, 02:29 PM
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Wonderful, I can`t say nothing more... I love that work...

Dmanbxp
03-25-2004, 11:28 PM
I don't know if somebody else already mentioned this, I just quickly scanned this thread, but those legs a way too long. Apart from that I think it's a stunning picture and a very nice female form.

Toiletfreak
03-26-2004, 12:37 AM
woah, blew me away... one of the best i've seen

Perkar
03-26-2004, 11:52 AM
modeling is great... texturing to, but lightning for me is very artifical & synthetic for me... but general awsome :)

wangnan6688727
04-15-2004, 02:22 PM
so beautiful!!!!!!!!

Kinsbane
04-15-2004, 03:27 PM
Are you getting paid for 3D work yet? Heh, cause you should!

BoxGizmo
04-15-2004, 05:18 PM
best best!

BoxGizmo
04-15-2004, 05:19 PM
goog good!I love

BoxGizmo
04-15-2004, 05:22 PM
it is very beautiful!;)

nudelsalat
08-30-2004, 05:36 PM
Awesome...the hair,.. the body...everything is perfect. :thumbsup:

Its realy one of the best pictures ive seen :)

Ali Imran Zaidi
09-26-2004, 12:32 PM
:thumbsup: Its amazing 3D work, yes i like it very much. its quite impressive. :thumbsup:

Neogineva
09-26-2004, 03:37 PM
Thats some of the best work i've ever seen . You must have been doing CG for a long time to get that good and keep up the good work

arungowtham
02-10-2005, 08:42 AM
hey! this is simply awesome man!:thumbsup:

can't imagine the work involved,keep it up.

arungowtham.

Melfice
03-03-2005, 03:41 PM
more than Impressive, i have no words for this, is a perfect work.

zoren
03-19-2005, 02:41 AM
impressive style, creative details....!