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RLM
11-24-2010, 10:51 PM
Hi Folks,

I know Vue 9 has literally only just been relased but if you are using this latest release and get some spare time, please leave feeback here. I am currently awaiting Vue 9 Infinite PLE to be released before deciding if I am going to make a purchase this year or again pass until more improvements have been made. I am sure there are many other in the same situation too, so hopefully this topic wll be appreciated by all.

If you could kindly start each reply with a basic breakdown of the hardware you are running Vue on, that would be really useful too!

Thanks and all the best,

Jay

Linden-Stirk
12-01-2010, 01:50 AM
Hi RLM,

I'm one of the few fortunate people here at the forums who has had a good experience with Vue. Since I'm a student, I get free upgrades (which I think everyone should). Anyway, Vue 9 is definitely an improvement over Vue 8.5. It renders much faster, and there's less noise in the clouds and less noise while rendering an animation when the wind is turned on. There are a few other features too. I've used Vue since the 7.4 release and I haven't experienced many issues with stability, except with the Maya xStream plugin, which hardly worked at all for me. Occasionally I get random crashes, but it has always auto-saved and never corrupted a file for me. As for animation, I've really only used xStream with 3ds Max and mental ray extensively and successfully. I haven't really got used to Vue's awful camera wizard thing. I know you've had a lot of problems with Vue in the past. Hopefully, the Vue 9 PLE will work a lot better for you. And I guess I've just been lucky. :shrug:

Here are my specs:
Windows 7 x64 Professional
AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHz
DDR3 8GB
GeForce GTX 460 1GB

...and I set Vue's viewport display to OpenGL 2.1 shader 4.


Linden

eworc
12-01-2010, 02:39 AM
Here are my specs:
Lenevo Y560 i7-740QM 1.73GHZ
Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
DDR3 8GB
ATI 5730 1GB

I did the upgrade deal from Vue 6 to Vue 8 Studio. Was looking at the upgrade to 9 but am holding off for now. Reason being, I installed Vue 9 Pioneer and loaded up the Tutorials/Sample Radiosity scene...loaded it up on Vue 8 Studio, same resolution and Final settings and Vue 8 took exactly half as long to render. Loaded up other scenes and the same result...Vue 9, at least with the Pioneer setup mentioned above takes twice as long to render scenes.

EDIT:
14 seconds from clicking render button to finish on Vue 8 Studio (render time box shows 0h00'05")

22 seconds from clicking render button to finish on Vue 9 Pioneer(render time box shows 0h00'10")

I will say that I am glad I made the upgrade from 6 to 8. Much better, faster and stable. Would be curious to see if others get the same speed differences between 8 to 9 with the same tutorial scene.

I can give more details if anyone is interested but the one thing I noticed during rendering that was different between Studio 8 and Pioneer 9 was that during the radiosity pre-pass...there are two slight lags as the percentage complete goes from 0%-%100...on the Vue 9 Pioneer it was much more noticeable and that is where it lost some time. I will have to watch both of them again and notice where else in the whole rendering process there are differences. Oh and as far as the final rendering on the scene I mention above..they appear to be exactly the same except the shadow to the right of the sphere is almost gone in the Vue 9 render...which subjectively is either an improvement or IMHO isn't right. Don't know if that shadow more or less missing is due to setting restrictions with Pioneer or not. (edit: I am going to change my shadows on the light in the scene from ray trace to shadow mapped and see if that matches up closer to what Pioneer is showing) I'll give an update later. (Edit: no change occured that matched 8 closer to what 9 results in.)

I added the files of the scene comparison between the two versions and the difference calculated in PSP. The difference between the two renders for green/blue wasn't noticeable but as you can see, the difference for red was the factor that made the shadows in those areas darker in Vue 8 Studio than in Vue 9 Pioneer. I don't know enough about this stuff, but my guess is there is a difference between the versions in the indirect lighting...since the diff was in the red spectrum. I would assume if I changed the light color in the scene from red to Blue, the diff would show in the blue spectrum.

eworc
12-01-2010, 06:56 AM
Here is the showcase caustic ring scene between the Vue 8 Studio and Vue 9 Pioneer. I don't know, I guess it needs to be apples to apples in order to get a 100% accurate determination of why there are differences in the image and speed. Again, Vue 8 took half as long to render. The render itself and speed diff could be due to a difference in some quality setting hidden in Pioneer, which is set at default...or there could be actual changes between the render algorithms or something and the differences in result and speed are actual.

MikeFrampton
12-01-2010, 10:00 AM
Any chance your system has more than 2 cores? Keep in mind that the free Vue Pioneer is limited to 2 cores in 32 bit and 4 cores in 64 bit while Esprit and up will use 4/8 respectively. You might like to test the Vue 9 PLE (or the trial version of Studio) when they are released (soon).

Best regards

eworc
12-01-2010, 10:11 AM
Mike:

Duh, that explains it. My laptop is a QAD Core i7 which explains why the Vue9 Pioneer is taking longer. Apples to Oranges...any comments on the differences between the images in the shadows? Vue 8 Studio's shadows look darker and looking at the Vue 9 Pioneer's caustics, they look sharper. Is it just a setting difference in Vue 9 P that is on by default and of course not viewable/accessible? Thanks for any input....this certainly removes my worry about the speed differences.

MikeFrampton
12-01-2010, 11:57 AM
Any chance you have Gamma correction enabled? That wasn't available in Vue 8.

xad
12-01-2010, 01:32 PM
I've made a quick test with the two scenes in Vue 8.5 and I would guess the different results you get are somehow related to the exposure settings for your renders. You may want to check the 'auto-exposure' and 'natural film response' settings in both of your Vue versions.

eworc
12-01-2010, 05:05 PM
Gamma correction was not enabled.
The auto-exposure and natural film response settings were the same for both.

That being said, those parameters would affect the whole picture I would think, versus just some shadows as the Diff image I attached displays.

MikeFrampton
12-01-2010, 05:49 PM
I rendered the caustics image in Vue 8, 8.5 and 9 and got exactly the same result. Sorry I can't help...

eworc
12-01-2010, 06:19 PM
I rendered the caustics image in Vue 8, 8.5 and 9 and got exactly the same result. Sorry I can't help...

Can you tell me if all your results looked closer to my Vue 9 Pioneer render or to my Vue 8 Studio render? Also, if you get the chance, run it in Vue 9 Pioneer and tell me if it's as different for you as it is for me. I am just curious, based on my results, if all things being equal, if Vue 9 is rendering the caustics "better" or if it's just a matter of Vue 9 Pioneer having a higher quality setting for caustics by default. This question would be changed based on your answer to my first question on this post, of course. Thank you.

MikeFrampton
12-02-2010, 01:20 PM
My tests look like the one you did in Vue 8, however, I just ran the same test in Vue 9 Pioneer, and got the same, brighter results as you did. I have no idea why that is, but I'll investigate and get back to you.

Best regards

MikeFrampton
12-02-2010, 02:51 PM
I found the cause: it's because Pioneer doesn't let you control the attenuation profile of light sources, and the spotlight in the source is a regular spotlight with a quadratic attenuation (instead of being a quadratic spotlight - if that makes sense - probably some legacy of an even older version of Vue).

You can check this by placing a quadratic spotlight at the exact same location and duplicating all the light settings, and you will see that you get the exact same results.

Best regards

eworc
12-02-2010, 04:42 PM
Mike:

Thanks for taking the time to look into this and finding an explanation. While I know e-on has an official forum and there is Cornucopia 3D as well, it's great that somebody from e-on can offer input/help on other well known industry sites from time to time. It at least let's consumers know that companies and some of their employees are in fact looking and interested in what occurs in the wild, whether officially or on a personal/own time basis.

I look forward to eventually having the opportunity of upgrading to the latest release now that some of my concerns have been cleared up.

Bill

MikeFrampton
12-02-2010, 04:59 PM
Thank you for your kind words, Bill. Glad I could help! :-)

RLM
12-03-2010, 01:55 AM
Mike:

Thanks for taking the time to look into this and finding an explanation. While I know e-on has an official forum and there is Cornucopia 3D as well, it's great that somebody from e-on can offer input/help on other well known industry sites from time to time. It at least let's consumers know that companies and some of their employees are in fact looking and interested in what occurs in the wild, whether officially or on a personal/own time basis.
Bill

I second that. It's reassuring to know someone from e-on pays attention to these forums and takes the time to help out too!

Cheers,

Jay

RLM
12-06-2010, 11:53 PM
Hi RLM,

I'm one of the few fortunate people here at the forums who has had a good experience with Vue. Since I'm a student, I get free upgrades (which I think everyone should). Anyway, Vue 9 is definitely an improvement over Vue 8.5. It renders much faster, and there's less noise in the clouds and less noise while rendering an animation when the wind is turned on. There are a few other features too. I've used Vue since the 7.4 release and I haven't experienced many issues with stability, except with the Maya xStream plugin, which hardly worked at all for me. Occasionally I get random crashes, but it has always auto-saved and never corrupted a file for me. As for animation, I've really only used xStream with 3ds Max and mental ray extensively and successfully. I haven't really got used to Vue's awful camera wizard thing. I know you've had a lot of problems with Vue in the past. Hopefully, the Vue 9 PLE will work a lot better for you. And I guess I've just been lucky. :shrug:

Linden

Hi Stirk,

Thanks for all the info and so far Vue 9 Infinite PLE seems pretty sweet. Have to say that the interface seems a little buggy so far though, but maybe I need to do some tweaking. Have you managed to produce any animations yet by any chance? Thanks,

Jay

Linden-Stirk
12-10-2010, 02:03 PM
Hi Jay,

Sorry for the late reply. I've been very busy with end of semester projects and tests. I only made a small animation of the some trees and a moving camera to test out the anti-flickering feature. I should have some time over break to do a more extensive test with a much larger scene. I'll definitely let you know. :beer:


Linden

RLM
12-12-2010, 11:20 PM
Hi Linden,

Don't worry about it. I was just curious to see what you had been able to achieve so far ;) Take it easy and keep us posted when you get time. All the best,

nildoe
12-13-2010, 10:27 AM
Hi Guys...

I downloaded the PLE verison vue xtream but i cant install saying :
I need to check that:

1- I have sufficient disk space (checked)
2- antivirus is not running (checked)
3-I have administrative rights (checked)

i even have user accounts control off

i dont know what else to do

Help please

Nildo

eworc
12-13-2010, 04:30 PM
nildoe:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=6794575&postcount=13

nildoe
12-13-2010, 06:09 PM
Thx eworc, but i cant reinstall the os again, just because vue is not working...this in itself should say something about the application.

Too bad :(.

Nildo

eworc
12-13-2010, 06:56 PM
Thx eworc, but i cant reinstall the os again, just because vue is not working...this in itself should say something about the application.

Too bad :(.

Nildo

This in itself doesn't say anything about the application. That is a causality fallacy. You can either rule out your OS as the problem or not. Too bad because you can be missing out on a lot of good software just because you assume the problem lies with the software and not something else.

RLM
12-15-2010, 12:21 PM
Thx eworc, but i cant reinstall the os again, just because vue is not working...this in itself should say something about the application.

Too bad :(.

Nildo

Hi Nildo,

I agree with you here. Anyone who actually works in the design / 3D industry would also agree that re-installing your entire operating system just to see if that helps with the installation of one program is crazy and would loose you valuable production time too. In a production environment, the re-installation of an operating system should always be the very last thing you do.

If you had purchased the full version Vue and had tried everything else, then of course you would have no choice but to attempt a clean install of your operating system. Under all other circumstances and when all you want to do is simply install a trial version of a program to evaluate. Re-installation of the operating system is not justified and anyone working in the industry would know that as you would loose too much production time to warrant it.

Nildo, we have the same problem with the PLE version of Vue 9. We use the latest Mac pro's and Pc's here at the creative agency I work for and have never had problems with the installation process before now. Although Vue 9 PLE installed without problems on our Pc's. It would NOT install at all on our Mac pros. Although it could well be a conflict with hardware or the operating system, which a clean install may help with. Numerous people have had similar problems with this version of Vue, so it might well be a bug in the installer as u already suggested too.

The problem is that as most of the people experiencing these problems are using the PLE versions to evaluate before purchasing, as we were doing here. You don't get access to support and therefore can not report the bug to e-on!!! Let's hope they sort it though.

EDIT: Had it not been for the fact that we are experiencing installation issues with the Infinite version of Vue. I would have suggested that the installation issues you are experiencing with the xStreme version may be related to the installation paths associated with the programs your are trying to integrate it with! Oh well.

All the best,

MikeFrampton
12-15-2010, 04:00 PM
If you are having issues installing the Vue 9 PLE, you can contact e-on here:
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/FeedbackCenter.php

Thank you.
Best regards

RLM
12-15-2010, 04:44 PM
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the link and I will submit a ticket ASAP.

eworc
12-15-2010, 04:59 PM
Anyone who actually works in the design / 3D industry would also agree that re-installing your entire operating system just to see if that helps with the installation of one program is crazy and would loose you valuable production time too. In a production environment, the re-installation of an operating system should always be the very last thing you do.




That isn't correct context as to what I suggested. What I actually suggested is pragmatic and a widely used concept in enterprise level business from an I.T. perspective. Hard drive imaging makes sense and saves a lot of time and headache from a business and home perspective. The imaging process takes less than two hours and any time you need to restore your PC/MAC when peformance drops or the OS becomes unstable for various reasons, it takes about 15 minutes. That is not crazy, it's logical and efficient.

wfstecko
12-15-2010, 07:07 PM
In a production environment, the re-installation of an operating system should always be the very last thing you do.

Quite the opposite, actually. 3D's a hobby for me. My job is to administer our corporate network. We routinely reimage systems here for all sorts of issues. If a problem can't be isolated in 15 minutes we reimage. It's all about the bottom line and productivity. We can reimage a computer faster than we can scan for malware. Why have a computer down for hours when it can be reimaged in minutes? We maintain images for server disaster recovery too.

I do this for my home computers too, but I also take other precautions. I have a designated computer for surfing the internet. I use my firewall to block internet access for my other machines, except for necessary software updates. I have a seperate computer for trial versions of software or beta versions. You'll never catch me installing trial or beta software on anything other than a test machine. Since I only have one Mac, I have a seperate hard drive I put in when I'm testing something, and a seperate drive with apps as a backup.

Walter

eworc
12-15-2010, 09:55 PM
wfstecko

You said it with more detail than I gave. I think their misunderstanding is that they think they would have to re-do everything everytime there is an issue verus taking the time to start out with a solid foundation of OS/Software, creating an image and restoring the image when needed.

On my personal computers, I have a basic image with only the OS, updated drivers, windows updates. I then create another image off of that with installed software that I will more likely always keep on them...that is the image I restore from unless a significant portion of the software I am using becomes obsolete, then I start over with the basic image again.

Every so often when I am not busy, I will restore the basic and daily use images and do the windows updates, quicktime, virus defs, etc. and save them again as the "masters'.

RLM
12-16-2010, 10:46 AM
Quite the opposite, actually. 3D's a hobby for me. My job is to administer our corporate network. We routinely reimage systems here for all sorts of issues. If a problem can't be isolated in 15 minutes we reimage. It's all about the bottom line and productivity. We can reimage a computer faster than we can scan for malware. Why have a computer down for hours when it can be reimaged in minutes? We maintain images for server disaster recovery too.
Walter

Hi Walter. Think you have also misread my post. If your computer is actually not working or down. Then obviously re-imaging or reformatting your computer WOULD be the correct thing to do as you mentioned. However, and don't take this the wrong way at all here. Nobody has a damaged, faulty or corrupt system here and the only problem people are experiencing is with the installation of one single program - Vue 9. Yes, reformatting or re-imaging may indeed solve this problem. However, anyone already working in the design / 3D environment would usually try to avoid this at all costs due to the time that would then be required to re-install all their software and files to that machine etc. On top of that. Large agencies like the one I work for often use external IT companies to maintain all their systems and can not not simply reformat individual machines on the spot. Despite the fact we all know how to do this ourselves. We have to wait for out IT company to do it for us, which sometimes sucks.

I originally stated:

Anyone who actually works in the design / 3D industry would also agree that re-installing your entire operating system just to see if that helps with the installation of one program is crazy and would loose you valuable production time too. In a production environment, the re-installation of an operating system should always be the very last thing you do.

Not that anyone of this really matters anyway. The bottom line is finding a solution to the installation problems associated with Vue 9 PLE. I just wanted to make sure you understood my post, so please don't take any of this the wrong way.

All the best,

eworc
12-16-2010, 03:39 PM
Nobody has a damaged, faulty or corrupt system here and the only problem people are experiencing is with the installation of one single program - Vue 9.


That statement is based on what evidence? If people stated that they re-imaged their pc back to a pristine level and still could not install Vue 9 PLE, then and only then would it be valid.

Yes, reformatting or re-imaging may indeed solve this problem. However, anyone already working in the design / 3D environment would usually try to avoid this at all costs due to the time that would then be required to re-install all their software and files to that machine etc.

You contradict yourself here because if "Nobody" has a damaged, faulty or corrupt system, re-imaging their pc would not work. The time I and wfstecko suggested takes about 20 minutes, which would include copying back files/data from backups, so more time is being spent trying to isolate a problem that more than likely has nothing to do with Vue.

On top of that. Large agencies like the one I work for often use external IT companies to maintain all their systems and can not not simply reformat individual machines on the spot. Despite the fact we all know how to do this ourselves. We have to wait for out IT company to do it for us, which sometimes sucks.

I bet it would take more time for these external IT companies to isolate a problem then just to restore an image back on an individual machine.

Not that anyone of this really matters anyway. The bottom line is finding a solution to the installation problems associated with Vue 9 PLE.


The solution has been given. If people don't want to do the right thing to save them from having to waste time on this type of problem or virus/malware issues, etc. that's on them.

eworc
12-16-2010, 03:48 PM
Nildo, we have the same problem with the PLE version of Vue 9. We use the latest Mac pro's and Pc's here at the creative agency I work for and have never had problems with the installation process before now. Although Vue 9 PLE installed without problems on our Pc's. It would NOT install at all on our Mac pros. Although it could well be a conflict with hardware or the operating system, which a clean install may help with. Numerous people have had similar problems with this version of Vue, so it might well be a bug in the installer as u already suggested too.




If it's a bug with the installer, then it's only on the mac version since it installed without problems on your Pc's.

nildoe stated that he had, "user accounts control" set to off, so he is using Windows. So for him, it's not an installer bug but his PC is goofed up as stated.

MikeFrampton
12-16-2010, 04:03 PM
Eworc, I believe RLM said he had issues installing the Vue 9 PLE on the Mac plaform, but was able to install on Windows.

We have had a number of reports of installation issues on the Mac platform, and this has now been narrowed down to a bug in the native Mac OSX zip expander on some flavors of Mac OSX. It appears that this expander corrupts archives that include PDF or image files, such as the Vue 9 PLE. This appears to be a known problem on the Mac platform.
In order to correctly unpack the zip archive on the Mac, here is what you can do:
- Open a terminal from application/utilities,
- Type Unzip then a "space", and then drag the zip file in the terminal window,
- This should unzip the archive to your home directory,
- Install from there.

We have had one single report of problem with installation on the Windows side, out of the many thousands who have successfully installed the application, so it appears that issues on that platform are probably system dependent.

Hope that helps.
Best regards

nildoe
12-16-2010, 04:07 PM
Hi Guys...

sorry for not replying any sooner...
but bottom line i think i agree more with what RLM is saying, yes we could re-image the pc and all that...but to me it still kinda weird why only with VUE9 i have the issue with installing, i mean even 8.5 installed fine...
every other software installs fine, and as prev said...

but thx alot for your comments...

i hope i find a solution for this without having to reinstall OS.

Oh and by the way..i tried installing this PLE of vue9 in another PC i have here, and i had the same problem. and this one has a freshier WIN7 64BIT install

thx
Nildo

MikeFrampton
12-16-2010, 04:09 PM
Nildo, please read my post above if you are on the Mac platform.

Best regards

nildoe
12-16-2010, 04:14 PM
Hi Mike

thx for this, but i am on a PC platform.

Thx
Nildo

eworc
12-16-2010, 04:15 PM
Eworc, I believe RLM said he had issues installing the Vue 9 PLE on the Mac plaform, but was able to install on Windows.




Mike:

Yeah, I read that after the fact and therefore changed my post. I got confused with what problem he had or didn't have.

It's great that you pinpointed the problem down to a native Mac issue and have a work around.

eworc
12-16-2010, 04:20 PM
Oh and by the way..i tried installing this PLE of vue9 in another PC i have here, and i had the same problem. and this one has a freshier WIN7 64BIT install





Apparently not fresh enough. Whatever is screwed up on your one PC is screwed up on that one as well. Do a fresh install and report back. Before you do, do yourself a favour and purchase an imaging program from Norton or Acronis, for example, so you will have a painless way of dealing with things like this in the future.

RLM
12-16-2010, 04:46 PM
eworc, you have some serious issue man. I can honestly say with all certainty that you need an attitude adjustment. I've worked in the 3d industry for many years and frequent many messgaeboards, but never come across a member with such attitude problems as you before. I walked away from the Vue stability topic as you single handedly managed to take it off-topic and ruin it for everyone. I'm not doing that again. If you spent more time actually reading posts instead of making arguments out of everything and quoting every sentence ever spoken, you might not be such an annoyance.

You sound very young, so let me give you some advise. These are professional forums for industry professionals or hobbiests interested in CG and should not be used for your petty personal grievances ok! Learn to walk away from things and accept when you are wrong. Most importantly, re-read your replies and realise that to quote posts and personally attack other members when they are voicing their opinions which do not always concern you is not acceptable. I could point out 100's of idiotic comments and mistakes you have made in most of your posts, but this isn't the place. You seem to enjoy arguing, as you did with many new members who posted in the Vue stability topic! You ruined that topic, don't ruin this one by once again turning it into another personal vendetta against me.

TO ALL OTHER MEMBERS, PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES FOR THIS.

RLM
12-16-2010, 04:50 PM
Eworc, I believe RLM said he had issues installing the Vue 9 PLE on the Mac plaform, but was able to install on Windows.

Hope that helps.
Best regards

Hi Mike,

Thanks for once again taking the time to come on here and help out. For the sake of other members on here. We HAVE NOT had ANY issue installing Vue 9 on our pc's, only mac.

We are currently attempting the steps you suggested right now, so I'll let you know if that resolves it. Although we've not managed to install Vue 9 on our work macs yet, obviously. I have been using it without problem on my home pc and really like what I have seen so far. The interface looks far more polished too!

J

eworc
12-16-2010, 05:00 PM
eworc, you have some serious issue man. I can honestly say with all certainty that you need an attitude adjustment. I've worked in the 3d industry for many years and frequent many messgaeboards, but never come across a member with such attitude problems as you before. I walked away from the Vue stability topic as you single handedly managed to take it off-topic and ruin it for everyone. I'm not doing that again. If you spent more time actually reading posts instead of making arguments out of everything and quoting every sentence ever spoken, you might not be such an annoyance.

You sound very young, so let me give you some advise. These are professional forums for industry professionals or hobbiests interested in CG and should not be used for your petty personal grievances ok! Learn to walk away from things and accept when you are wrong. Most importantly, re-read your replies and realise that to quote posts and personally attack other members when they are voicing the opinions which do not concern you is not acceptable. I could point out 100's of idiotic comments and mistakes you have made in most of your posts, but this isnt the place. You seem to enjoy arguing, as you did with many new members who posted in the Vue stability topic! You ruined that topic, don't ruin this one by once again turning it into another personal vendetta against me.

TO ALL OTHER MEMBERS, PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES FOR THIS.

Get over yourself. People that offer opinions that are contrary to yours are not personally attacking you.

RLM
12-16-2010, 05:01 PM
Hi Mike,

I can confirm that the steps you recommended have resolved our installation problems and we have now successfully installed Vue 9. Thanks again for all your help and now I can show what Vue can do to the rest of the agency.

Best regards,


J

MikeFrampton
12-16-2010, 05:25 PM
Glad it worked, and glad I could help!

Best regards

Lueb
12-19-2010, 12:28 AM
You guys seem to know Vue well, so I hope you can help me.

I mostly create in ZBrush then import obj's made there into Carrara for rendering. If I'm only interested in stills, not animation, which version of Vue would be best to get for me?

I use a Windows 7, 64 bit, quad machine, 8 gig RAM. I like using Carrara, but e-on claims Vue is pretty easy to get a grip on too, and I like what I see of it on the web site. I also like the fact that it has a forum right here too. I want to buy one of the versions withing a month, so I welcome your suggestions.

Wabe
12-19-2010, 09:29 AM
I am on Mac and a bit surprised to read about this sort of problem here. Because I never have had this sort of problems. And I installed Vue 9 on several Macs already here.

Maybe the difference is that I do not use the system internal zip procedure, I use the freeware "The Unarchiver" (an to zip files I use "CleanArchiver", free too). Maybe it is worth trying this out once to narrow the problem down even more.

RLM
12-19-2010, 11:57 PM
Hi Lueb,

Welcome to the forums and hopefully I can try to help you out here, as I also use Vue primarily for stills too. Personally, I would recommend either the xStreme of Infinite versions of Vue due to the vast difference in render and post-processing option they offer over all the other versions.

My personal choice would always be the stand-alone Infinite version though. This is mainly because I like to reduce the chances of software related issues that can arise from using the integrated xStreme version of Vue and the host application. I always think it's hard enough getting any one program to work perfectly these days, without integrating it into another. That's just my own opinion of course, but it also sounds like it would fit into your required work-flow best anyway.

I posted a reply to a similar topic a few weeks back over on another forum and thought it might also be useful for you here too. This is an extremely detailed and lengthy post though, so just read the bits that are of interest to you. As this original reply was to someone fairly new to the industry too, some of the highlighted answers may be obvious to you too!

I've listed some of the main features of the Infinite version that CAN NOT be found in the other versions, along with a few explanations too ;) Hopefully this should really help you understand the differences a little more.

1. Export all channels and masks into a convenient Photoshop PSD multi-channel, multi-mask file - Helps with post editing and fine tuning

2. Create layers for additional render information such as Z depth, object ID, material ID, global alpha mask, normal vectors... Again, vital for post editing and fine tuning

3. Generate colour and alpha masks for Global EcoSystem instances

4. Create a separate colour and alpha mask of clouds

5. Create separate pictures for Diffuse, Specular, Shadows, Ambient, Refractions, Reflections, Background, Indirect Lighting, Post-process...
Helps with post editing and fine tuning

6. Multi pass rendering (separates renders into the different rendering components - shadow, diffuse, ambient, etc.)
Essential if you want to fine tune and edit content after rendering in another program

7. Action safe and title safe frames and field grids (user configurable)
Important if you want to make sure content does not fall outside of the camera - safe area. If it does, you might not see it when rendered

8. Import motion tracking information - Important for camera matching footage, which helps integrate existing video footage with your CG created content etc

9. Animation output resolution only restricted by memory. - Complete version resolution is restricted to 1920 x 1080, which is still more than acceptable for most uses.

10. Animation export as After Effects - Very useful for post editing


Hope that helps and make sure you stick around to keep these forums going too!

J

RLM
12-20-2010, 12:10 AM
I am on Mac and a bit surprised to read about this sort of problem here. Because I never have had this sort of problems. And I installed Vue 9 on several Macs already here.

Maybe the difference is that I do not use the system internal zip procedure, I use the freeware "The Unarchiver" (an to zip files I use "CleanArchiver", free too). Maybe it is worth trying this out once to narrow the problem down even more.

Hi wabe,

Thanks for the info and I'll take a look into unarchiver you recommended too. Thanks to the help from Mike & e-on support (who responded very quickly), we have now managed to successfully install Vue Infinite PLE on our Macs. So far though, we have been experiencing numerous stability issues during our testing and I am attempting to resolve this by tweaking various display settings within the interface. Hopefully, this week I will get time to look into this further.We've not had ANY issues with the pc versions so far though!

All the best,

Lueb
12-20-2010, 01:09 AM
RLM, thanks for the detailed information about Vue. I am sorry to hear that I would have to buy one of the top most expensive programs in order to get multipass rendering, as I'm not prepared just yet to lay out that much money. I had hoped I could get a good start with Studio or thereabouts, and still have good renderings.
Still, thanks for the info. I saw some kind of thing you make monthly payments on in Cornucopia, I think, that might help a buyer with a better deal. Any thoughts on doing that? Sometimes spreading out a payment is a nice benefit.

RLM
12-20-2010, 01:36 AM
Hi Lueb,

No problem, glad I could help. Although I've not noticed the options for monthly payments that you mentioned over on the Cornucopia forums myself. I have a feeling that what you may be referring to is actually their upgrade plan. This just helps with the cost of any future upgrades to any of the following products which you would have to purchase beforehand: Esprit, Studio and Complete. Once you had chosen and purchased a product, this would most likely be worthwhile though.

Hope that helps...

Lueb
12-20-2010, 01:49 AM
Thanks again, RLM, and that all makes sense now.


Although, as you mentioned, multipass rendering is only included on the top level program, even the lower level products tout modules you can add like Render Up and LightTune, which seem jam-packed with all kinds of possibilites. I am almost tempted to buy a low end program, learn it, then start adding modules. The only problem is, I still couldn't add multipass I guess unless I started out at the top.

eworc
12-20-2010, 02:44 AM
Lueb

You could just get Studio an add eco painter if needed. Studio will not do all the multipass stuff but it can save out some g-buffer data such as the alpha and depth channel which you could use in basic compositing. There are a lot of people that get along just fine without the multipass options in Infinite.

Lueb
12-20-2010, 03:10 AM
Thanks, eworc. That's kind of how I'm feeling, as I can already do multipass in other programs if I need it. I am very impressed by all the works created by Vue artists on all levels, so I'm going to check out some demos, read the manuals for a few weeks, then see how I feel then. I appreciate the help from you experienced Vue users.

Wabe
12-20-2010, 07:01 AM
RLM, I do not know whether you have done it already or not. But one default setting in the Vue preferences can be a bit dangerous and can create crashes easily. It is the OpenGL setting under display in the preferences.

Default there is "...shader 4", something quite some graphic cards have problems with. I normally change that to "...hardware accelerated" and am more happy.

But keep in mind, Vue is challenging your graphic card probably more than most other programs you/we use. Normally we talk about billions of polygons that need to be displayed. Therefore the danger to reach some limits there is much higher. I learned that OpenGL crashes (memory overflows especially) are hard to handle (even for the operating system), normally here they kill my whole Mac so that it needs to be restarted. Means? Be careful with the axe Eugene!

RLM
12-20-2010, 09:39 AM
Hi wabe,

Thanks for the extra info and I'll check it out this week. I can also fully appreciate that Vue is one of the most hardware intensive programs on market too, due to the fact that it can handle billions of polygons as you mentioned.

We have been experiencing full system crashes on the Mac as you mentioned too, so it maybe it's all openGL related and we need to experiment with the relevant display settings.

Thanks again...

kromekat
01-10-2011, 12:19 PM
Any Mac users got any info on how Vue 9 is running for them? - is it staying upright and stable?

I'm not expecting miracles, but after 8 flaky versions on the Mac, surely a re-write is more stable?

Adam

Wabe
01-11-2011, 07:51 AM
Well, I am on Mac and I think 9 is a quantum jump, especially compared to 7 or 8. But try maybe the PLE version first, to see how it feels.

MarioC
01-11-2011, 10:12 AM
i highly recommend using the PLE extensively instead of just asking other people how their application runs and feels like. everyone has other hardware and software setups, and different workflows, and Vue is special in running for some people stable as solid rock and for others the problems start with a crashing installer.

kromekat
01-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Have now downloaded the PLE thanks.

Its still worth asking others who are using the new version on the Mac! - I have had nothing but instability with Vue on multiple OSX computers different versions/different systems in the past, and I am far from alone, so finding out whether the re-write has made any difference for those that have had time to work with it is very imformative.

I will put the new PLE through some testing though, and will be sure to report back.

Adam

RLM
01-11-2011, 05:07 PM
Hi Adam,

I can also confirm that we have had nothing but endless crashes and technical problems using Vue on macs in the past too. We are currently also thoroughly testing Vue 9 on our Mac pros and will post further info as soon as we have some long-term results.We have found that tweaking Vue as recommended by wabe certainly helps with overall stability though.

For the record. The pc version is still working perfectly and we have not yet encountered any problems so far ;) Good luck with your testing and let us know how you get on.

RLM
01-12-2011, 12:37 PM
Ok, so here's my feedback on the mac version of Vue 9 after completing my own tests using scenes that all included the following:

1. Large ecosystem
2. Atmosphere
3. High quality render settings.

After the initial problems actually getting this version installed. I think I can safely say that Vue 9 is definately the most stable version of Vue I have used on the mac so far and the results have been pretty decent and reliable too. Obviously this will all depend on the specific hardware everyone is using but Vue 9 definitely seems a step in the right direction for other mac users who have had problems with previous versions.

kromekat
01-12-2011, 01:09 PM
Ok, so here's my feedback on the mac version of Vue 9 after completing my own tests using scenes that all included the following:

1. Large ecosystem
2. Atmosphere
3. High quality render settings.

After the initial problems actually getting this version installed. I think I can safely say that Vue 9 is definately the most stable version of Vue I have used on the mac so far and the results have been pretty decent and reliable too. Obviously this will all depend on the specific hardware everyone is using but Vue 9 definitely seems a step in the right direction for other mac users who have had problems with previous versions.


Thanks for the swift feedback! ;)

Out of curiosity I checked on prices for possible upgrades last night, and it seems you can only go from 7 or 8 upwards! - 6.5 was the last version I installed, both infinite and xstream, so felt pretty burned last time after the outlay when they kept falling over (xstream was unusable in fact), so unless there are unadvertised upgrades available should my testing prove that vue is now properly stable, I would not be outlaying full price again regardless! :/

RLM
01-12-2011, 02:18 PM
Hi kromekat,

No problem, your welcome. Think I spoke too soon though, as my feedback was based on tests over the past few weeks. This afternoon's tests have not been good at all and we have had endless problems and crashes when working in the material editor especially. Just to clarify though. We are using Vue 9 Infinite and not the integrated xStreme version. We have also disabled and amended all recommended display settings, but are still experiencing serious problems.

With regard to the upgrade, that kinda sucks but I think its the same for most other applications if that makes you feel any better. Once you fall behind by at least two full releases and you have to start again and buy the full package. I think it's mainly because so much changes in the code and upgrades just aren't possible. Therefore, think you would have to folk out for a fresh, full version this time. You could always email them though, they might be able to offer you a discount etc?

I'm gonna carry on testing Vue 9 but obviously I would recommend you do the same before making a decision. Let me know how you get on and all the best.

MarioC
01-12-2011, 02:32 PM
upgrade licenses are not linked to technical issues but to the business plans of the developers. when you upgrade your software package (manually or with an installer capable of doing so) ALL the old application files should be uninstalled first, and THEN the new files are written on your system, so it makes no difference if you jump from v2 to 10 or from 9.

developers want to earn money with their products (and that's ok). adobe applications for example are upgradeable 4 versions backwards, and if you are 5 versions or more behind you can upgrade to a cheap version "in between" at ebay and upgrade from there to an actual iteration (and save a lot of money). other developers let you move your licenses to other people, some don't. some companies allow free upgrades to .5 updates and patch their applications every few weeks for not a single coin, other fix a few bugs once a year, call it a full release and want hundreds of euros / dollars from you. as you see not every company is that flexible. it is on us to support one behavior or the other :rolleyes:

kromekat
01-12-2011, 02:38 PM
Hmmm - thats unfortunate, but far from surprising.

With Vue, i'm afraid it's 'guilty until proved innocent' through my experiences, and I fear that wont change too much with it on the Mac OSX platform at least.

Either way, I will see what can and cant be done with it, but I cant honestly see me paying full price for it AGAIN, only to be disappointed.

Thanks for the continued input and feedback!

Adam :)

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