View Full Version : LW8 "small" but "smart" improvements
Hello,
It would be cool to see the following features in LW8 in the near future. These I guess don't need really big work and rewrite the rendering core.
1. More scalable anti aliasing settings
Let's say High AA (17) setting is not enough, but I don't want to use Extreme(33), because that would be almost the twice of the rendering time. If I could write 20 into a field and deffine 20 samples with that number would be just very useful! Keep the default settings, but also let the user to define the number of the samples.
2. Implement the DITHERED function what motion blur already has, into the DOF settings. I think this would boost up the quality.
3. A RENDER STOP button
This could be on the Render Status window somewhere next to the Abort button. If the user push this button it would stop the render what ever state it is in, and composite the already finished layers (render-passes) together and send it out to the render display/image viewer.
I made a cketch about the AA settings panel to show what I mean.
What do you think? Is it doable?
Thank you!
Bye,
Krix
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1. Newtek needs to improve it's antialiasing. It currenly is too slow and kinda poor (reason why so many passes are needed for decent antialiasing in LW).
2. Dithering should be built into the Render Options panel, where it can globally affect everything. The same should be true for alot of options currently scattered all around LW, like Camera Properties.
3. This feature doesn't seem useful or practical. I'd rather see a robust render pass editor built into Render Options, instead of the various plugins buried under panels.
CIM!
I'm NOT talking about here what should newtek really improve, because they are not going to really retouch the rendering core in LW8. Not in the first release as I know. I'm talking about here how to make it more scalable with the abality what is already built in.
That Dithering what u can see in the motion blur option is not a global dithering, and what it only does to render another pass not that carefully. This is already implemented in motionblur and DOF would need it because of the same reason. That is all! And not about the method what Lightwave is using for Antialiasing.
It's simply about the 5, 9, 17, 33 sampling levels, and about how useful it would be to define numbers between them.
Well, if you render a frame let's say take an hour...but you want to change something in the middle of the rendering but would also see the result of your current settings, you can abort the rendering loosing half an hour, or wait for the program to finish the rendering what is another half an hour plus. So what I'm suggesting here to make the user able to stop the rendering and save out what is already done, not let it fall into the garbage and check the picture. Because what you see when rendering in progress is always the current pass...
Actually I'm working in production and this would be a useful stuff for lots of us, even if it's not useful for you.
Cheers,
Krix
adrencg
10-09-2003, 03:45 AM
How about a global texture scale slider, in addition to the XYZ sliders?
Mike
Kvaalen
10-09-2003, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by adrencg
How about a global texture scale slider, in addition to the XYZ sliders?
Mike
That would be great, I've always wanted something like that.
Although you can set up expressions for it it would be simpler and cool :thumbsup:
Emmanuel
10-09-2003, 10:31 AM
When I set AA to "Low", activate "Adaptive Sampling" and set it to 0,032, I get pretty nice results already at that level, and its fast for me.
comanche
10-09-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by CIM
1. Newtek needs to improve it's antialiasing. It currenly is too slow and kinda poor (reason why so many passes are needed for decent antialiasing in LW).
2. Dithering should be built into the Render Options panel, where it can globally affect everything. The same should be true for alot of options currently scattered all around LW, like Camera Properties.
3. This feature doesn't seem useful or practical. I'd rather see a robust render pass editor built into Render Options, instead of the various plugins buried under panels.
I totally agree.
Cheers,
Andreas
Nemoid
10-09-2003, 02:19 PM
I think it all depends from your needs and from how you work in production, Krix.
usually, effects like motion blur and DOF, when possible, are better achieved trough programs like AE and other softwares. wich aid you for multi pass rendering .tere you can not only set a motion blur, but tweak it till perfection for your needs.
most priduction studios use this system, wich is the best because saves a lot of time on rendering.and gives better results in the final image
for DOF exists also a good plugcalled Idof, . I think you know this. maybe Nt will introduce it in future Lw versions.
about AA also, it depends. allowing the user to set different number of passes could help, but It seems not a major enhancement to Lw built in AA IMO.
the use of AA also depends from the resolution of your
final output, coupling it with motion blur, too. e.g. where you use motion blur, you can use low settings of antialias, because it will be the blur to smear the image pixels. this is especially good for video production
the stop rendering button seem to me a good idea, because with the system you describe you can save part of your job, if I understood well what you mean.:thumbsup:
Stop Render Button is a cool idea.
Also a Pause Render Button...so i can render something, pause the rendering, render something diffrent or using something very CPU eating, then go back and render the rest. I often have to do this.
And as i allready said below: Visible Points (as Option) in Modeller! For any View Mode.
Something like a Plug someone here wrote, LW should know what you load (LWS or LWO). And a save everything which saves Scene and Objects on a single click (Ctrl-Shift-S?)
CU
mk
Hi Guys,
Lynx3D sent this at NEWTEK forum:
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Uhm it's no coincidence that the samples are 1, 5, 9, 17 and 33...
they are 1+ 2^x...
You need to create a somewhat regular pattern around the pixel you are rendering or the AA filter will look weird. Sure, you can create one with 20 samples, but there's not really one logical formular for that like for those settings LW offers.
And 20 samples won't really give you any visble difference to 17 when using the same type of algorithm...
it'd be better to implement different AA algorithms to choose from, like one for very crisp images, one slightly more blurry for animation (the soft filter just looks poor, sorry...and don't have to be that much types as in 3ds max where no one know what they are good for, max 3 already had 12 types
) etc or other adjustments like sample area or even variable sample number like splutterfish's Brazil...that's great.
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Like if the equation is 1+2^... what about the samplings 3, 7, 11...?
Yeah Nemo! The STOP RENDER is for that. But this PAUSE RENDER button sounds very clever too. Make you able to freeze your render, and start another render in another render window, and when the second one is over, just go back and finish the original one...so cool...however I think this is more complicated to achieve. But would be cool to see in LW8.x...something. Actually these two functions are absolutelly about workflow improvements. And the a global texture scale function too.
Krix
Nemoid
10-09-2003, 09:37 PM
yap a similar possibility would be surely cool.maybe implementing pause rendering could be difficult though. however they're 2 good ideas for workflow.
DaveW
10-09-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Krix
Like if the equation is 1+2^... what about the samplings 3, 7, 11...?
Those are not powers of 2.
2^1=2 that is probably worthless for AA.
2^2=4 that is low AA
2^3=8 that is medium AA
2^4=16 that is high AA
2^5=32 that is extreme AA
There are no in-between settings that NewTek is not providing.
Like CIM said, we need different AA algorithms.
BTW, to smooth DOF, use DOFblur, and to smooth motion blur use VectorBlur in Blur mode. There is also a post AA plugin called H/A that might produce adequate results. I've used it before, it doesn't look as good as real AA but it has looked good enough for some of the projects I've worked on.
Those are not powers of 2.
Oh doh! I missunderstood. Now it's clear.
Okay thanks for that!
Krix
P.S.: Can you tell me why is it 1+2^...I mean what is the 1 for? That is the first not antialiased pass?
b4 i forget:
To map objects with UVs: Unwelded Polys but still smooth-shaded
in the perspective View.
In Uview i dont have to unweld something it does it automatic.
No points are locked...
aehm yes..
bye
mk
What if we could set the amount of the blurriness. Set the strenght of the blur effect. I think it would be also cool if we could define it per surface. This button could be on the panel of the surface editor, let us turn on/off the shading noise reduction per surface and set different value for each of them.
This is also a function what we already have just should be a little bit tune up, and maybe reorganize.
Cheers,
Krix
DaveW
10-10-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Krix
P.S.: Can you tell me why is it 1+2^...I mean what is the 1 for? That is the first not antialiased pass?
I'm sure someone else could give you a more technical answer, but simply put, the first pass is to render the un-antialiased pixels, the rest of the passes are shifted slightly to sample surrounding pixels, and then they're all combined into a single antialiased image. You can watch LW do this if you turn on the show rendering in progress option.
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