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satans8937
10-08-2003, 01:46 AM
This car is in production for a game called Street Legal Racing: Redline, i'm making the model and my friend is importing it. Just need some general crits on the shape etc. The skin on the paint is an environment map on a basic colour which you can manually spraypaint in the game itself, or apply decals. Because of that, the exterior isnt getting a skin, only one 512x512 map with an alpha channel for the seams on the doors, hood etc. The lights and other details are done on multiple smaller 128x128 and 256x256 maps.

Polycount isn't really an issue, the game can handle 25000+ on a single car, this one is only 11K without the show wheels so i've got plenty of slack. You can tell me it needs anything, dosen't matter what polycost. Anyway, the pics...

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/Challenger_11.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/Challenger_12.jpg

So..um..... crit away :D
Be brutal, i can take it!

slice56
10-08-2003, 01:49 AM
looks great! only thing i can see that is bothering me, since you dont have a poly limit ;), is the rear chrome trim around the window is kinda low poly compared to the rest of the trim pieces. you might want to make it a little more rounded. I can see nickeling :)

RmachucaA
10-08-2003, 01:54 AM
engine components? suspension? chassis? show the interior too.
And BTW, Street legal runs like crap on any comp. i have seen, these kind of poly limits are a little too liberal.

Good model though.

satans8937
10-08-2003, 02:08 AM
Here's what it looks like stripped to the bone(?). I still have skinning to do, the shape of the body is what i'm concerned about. I want it to be nice and accurate :D

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/Challenger_13.jpg

All Running gear/Engine models are already in the game, no point in re-inventing the wheel!

RmachucaA
10-08-2003, 06:32 AM
True... ops!


you will have to model different fenders and the such right?
so i can customize it in game :-)

roosterjm2002
10-08-2003, 07:03 AM
is that game good at all? I seen it...it looks interesting...i was a big motor-city online fan...anything close?

satans8937
10-08-2003, 07:11 AM
It's good, but its also very buggy (activision value forced an early release). Patches are coming out now, the 1st beta patch fixed a lot of stuff, and another one is on its way apparently to mop up what that one missed.

Worth a look if you've got $20 to spare, there are 2 versions. Street Legal (the 1st) and Street Legal Racing: Redline (2nd). The latter is better, but still needs bug fixes.

R-SiN
10-08-2003, 07:42 PM
Amazing work!
just fix up the chrome trim on the rear window like slice said.
Mind posting a wire?

Matt
10-09-2003, 01:01 AM
Normally, I completely hate 3D cars, because they're not organic, but this I like a lot.

Will the game this is going to be in have a similar shader to what you've done in your render with the reflectivity? Or will it be a generic environmental map?

Any shots from the engine yet, or is it 'NDA'?

satans8937
10-09-2003, 07:04 PM
I dont know if its brazil, but the reflections on the car paint are just a regular env. map, nothing special at all. With any luck they'll look pretty similar ingame. I'm not going to rebuild the engine, i dont have that much time on my hands. Because of the way the game is i'd be stuck painstakingly recreating pieces of an engine, and i'm not the most educated man alive on that topic.

If i find time i'll post up a pic of one of the engines from in the game, but for now here's that wire and a new shot of the reworked front.

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/Challenger_14.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/Challenger_16.jpg

I got some help from a bigtime mopar friend of mine. He's helped a lot with making it look more accurate.

Supervlieg
10-09-2003, 07:44 PM
Thats a cool model. Great poly budget too for a realtime game. It could almost be considered high-poly.

I would like the see the engine running. Does it require lots of LODs? Are they created by the engine or do you have to do them manually?

satans8937
10-09-2003, 08:06 PM
They implemented LOD's in the 1st patch which fixed a lot of problems, but as far as i know its only on certain parts. You can see objects changing such as the rims, and the engines, but never the car. The LOD's are created manually, which explains why only certain parts do it. Unfortunately they screwed up and some of the LOD's are wrong. For example: You have a 5 spoked rim, get too far away from the camera it becomes a 3 spoke of different design. The patch is only a BETA, but its still annoying :)

Other than the slight performance increase the LOD's give, you still need a top end 'box to be able to play with smooth fps. I have a athlon2200xp+ with a 128Mb gForce ti4600 card and 512 ram (which is pretty average by todays standards :S) and i only average around 40-50 fps constant. My laptop though, a pIII 750, gets so little fps it's terrible.

The game is cool though, has a big following (www.buildersedge.org --down at the moment) and you can fine tune your engine to get as much HP out of it as possible, there are a lot of combinations of parts too, all affecting the car's performance. Not to mention customising your ride with extra parts, decals, spraypaint. Worth a look, its only a budget game.

atenyotkin
10-09-2003, 11:14 PM
I think the poly count is a bit too much. Even it if the engine can handle the 25K or whatever polys, what about the environment and the all the special effects the proc or GPU has to computer? I like the car very much, it looks very nice. I would lower the amount of polys used on the rims and tires. most of the time you cant even see them that much anyway. I don't know that many people that sit down to play a racing game, and look at the detail of the tires. I think you should keep this model if you have a preview of cars before the game starts, but for in-game, lower they poly count by a thousand or two.

Matt
10-09-2003, 11:44 PM
Yeah but remember, by the time this game is out, we will have Doom 3 and maybe Half-Life 2, two games that demand performance, so a lot of us will be upgraded by then.

If they drop the car models down to 8000 polys total, and have some good LOD stuff going on, and rely on some sophisticated shaders, we could have a highly detailed game that runs well on a GeForce4 level card.

satans8937
10-10-2003, 12:07 AM
The game has been retailing in the US for around 2 months Matt, the patch that fixes some of its bugs is the BETA, not the game.

atenyotkin: Those wheels are really for show, i was planning on using different ones, but would it surprise you if i said the ones made by the game developers are even more detailed than those?

I'll post an update soon, i'm burdened by another project at the moment.

atenyotkin
10-10-2003, 12:29 AM
I would be just a bit surprised, but I believe. That's cool stuff man. If I have not said it before, I love the car.

AndyH
10-14-2003, 06:27 PM
Thats frickin' ace!

Just so happens that the '71 challenger is my all time fave car.
Makes so much of a change to see good ol' muscle cars other than shiny Porsches and Ferraris that clog up CG these days.
Ive just started working on a hi-poly version the last few days, and when i saw yours (Low poly as well!), it made me think '.....dang nabbit!!'

It would be intresting to see the wires for the Challenger in Gran Turismo 4 as a comparison - theyre pretty hi-res too. It'll be a hard act to beat though!

What did you make it in? and how did you start off? lowpoly, then subdivide it, or just damn-accurate vertex pulling?


Very nice work.

Love to see a Shelby cobra or a plymouth GTX!

satans8937
10-14-2003, 06:51 PM
Thanks Andy!

Max 5 is my weapon of choice :D I start all my models with a 1x1 flat plane, then grab the edges and shift+pull em around (loadsa vertex pulling too, some other techies)- around 3-4 hours later i have a car. Then its detail time, and fixing stupid errors...stuff like that.

I was going to revive this thread sometime soon actually, just starting the texture work on the interior. Texturing just so happens to be my weakest point though, so it'll take a while.

As for my next car, well lets just say its unlikely to be anything but a 1969 Mustang Boss :)

AndyH
10-14-2003, 10:46 PM
Mustang boss? - excellent!

'Ambassador, wiz zese cars you are really spoiling uz!'

Look forward to it!


Maybe do a Matte Version, like the 'Fuel' Challengers! (perhaps a big set o speakers comin out the boot too!)


Also, You may be intrested in this thread - very impressive!

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93455&highlight=camaro

Keep it up lad.

Naseem
10-14-2003, 10:54 PM
cool i love this car, nice work btw ^_^ i'm not a critic

satans8937
10-14-2003, 11:26 PM
nice avatar martok ;D

slice56
10-15-2003, 02:06 AM
how long did it take you to do this car? nice work btw :D

twindragon
10-15-2003, 03:29 AM
Definetly good work. Do you use a picture in max to work from so you get the proportions right?

satans8937
10-15-2003, 03:05 PM
slice56: erm... To finish the car in total it took a couple of days, on and off you know? I'm not sure how many hours, i'd say 20-30 probably.

twindragon: Yeah, i used some "blueprint photos" (photos from front, side and back with almost no perspective ) to help me to begin with. Then once i had the shell fully modelled, i relied heavily on reference to get the shape as close as i could. A friend helped me out with that (thx AdR).

Never thought i'd get this many replies, thx guys :D

TheWriter
10-16-2003, 08:39 AM
Polycount isn't really an issue, the game can handle 25000+ on a single car,

It is partly due to this kind of attitude that a lot of games run laggy/choppy when there is no reason to.

TDA_3d
10-24-2003, 05:26 PM
[edit: erm.... good job i thought ahead or this post would sound really wierd. I re-registered with a new Nick, TDA-3d]

The Writer: That statement is true, but i'm not a developer for this game - it's already been released. I'm merely a modder, and in the process of modding i want to see just how far i can push the game engine. Heck, if i was serious about testing the engine i'd go right ahead and slap a meshsmooth on the car...but i'm not crazy...i think. Besides which, if you're bothered about the count then dont use my mod, its as simple as that.

Now onto updates! I Finally got around to making + mapping the entire interior excluding the dash...cant find any good reference for that, but my friend is looking into it. I'll start skinning once i get my graphics tablet (should be arriving in a week or so) but in the meantime, i'll leave you with a new image (no new content though).... enjoy!

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/Challenger_18.jpg

EricChadwick
10-24-2003, 06:03 PM
This car looks great, very slick. I say push it to the edge, see what vert count you can get away with.

Are you including LODs though? May turn lotsa people off your mod if it doesn't run decently.

BTW, I worked on Motorcity awhile back. We did most of the first set of interiors, as a third-party graphics house. It was fun. EA gave us great photo reference too, although I shot the stuff for the '67 Camaro. You can see some of the work here...
http://www.ericchadwick.com/portfolio/html/chadwick_rt3d.html

TDA_3d
10-24-2003, 06:37 PM
The game handles masive polycounts very very well, i made an "exhaust" ( extremely custom ) for the ripped off 67 Shelby Mustang GT-500 model. That was over 12K polys -- 3 iteration meshsmooth -- and i only got a 5 fps drop, i do have a good machine though... But thats irrelevant because i'm not planning to go THAT high anyway. The polycount is pretty much set at the 20K mark for once i'm done.

Thanks for the link by the way! Shows what great things textures can do to low poly interiors huh? Hopefully when i get my tablet i'll be on the right road to making great textures like that. My mouse skills are kinda bad, but i'm great with a pencil...so....here's hoping huh? I'll post an update as soon as i have one...

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