Character: Woman

[Gilgamesh]

Sorry for the big images.
Heres the face:
http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/face01.jpg
http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/facewire01.jpg

Thanks guys and gals!

Oh yeah, and don't worry about hurting my feelings, harsh crits help us grow big and strong.

[MoD_Legion]

Hi Gil,

Only crits I got is that the biceps looks a bit to thin, even for a stretched female arm and the knees look a bit weird to me. The back of the knee is to 'round', the 2 muscle ends are usual more straight, just feel your own knee when u stretch it. Also to me the indend at the front of the knee seem rather deep to me, I dont think normally the knee cap has such a big deformation like that when streched.

Other then that I dont see anything wrong, your topology is great as is the use of quads.

[eoin_]

I agree with MoD_Legion but I must add that the legs looks
very thin also.This maybe the look you are going for. If its a more cartoony look you are going for well then proportions are what ever you wanr them to be. Overall topology looks great...
Looking forward to update....:)

[Gilgamesh]

Thanks for your crits. I got rid of the crease in the back of the knee, made the bicepts a little bigger (good call)

Here's a hand....

http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/hand01.jpg

[Garma]

ey gil, great topology you got there, I'm impressed.

Bout the hand. Fingers seem too long imho and a little too thick. Can we see a top view of the hand? Also the muscles in the neck seem weird to me, too tense and they stick out too much. And I agree with mod_legion about the arms, it's almost just bones there :D

good luck

[Stahlberg]

The meaty parts of the palm of the hand seems too thin, in the front view.
Fingers - the last joint seems too long. Actually the bones of the finger follow the Fibonacci series, or the Golden Rule, each one is 0.666... as long as the next bigger one.
I agree about the knees, front and back view of the knees need more work.
The heel/achilles tendon connection should be 'squeezed' or 'scalloped out' a bit more, it's hard to explain but look at refs.
There seems to be a vertical crease at the back of her neck, that should be flatter.
The 2 big muscle bunches running along each side of the spine seem a bit too far apart at the waist. No biggie though.
The elbows may have some of the same problems as the knee-caps.

Otherwise a very nice stylized body. Especially the front view of the torso is excellent.

The face - I don't know what you're going for there. Topology seems good.

[eYadNesS]

Nice work Gilgamesh, I like the body style :)
Could you post a wireframe from the back view...
Thanks very much

Try to correct her knee-caps :), and walk through Mr. Stahlberg post...

[gmask]

She looks very stylised to me.. I mean she is way to thin for a normal person.. so when you say you want crits on proportions I would assume emaciated super model with breast implants is what you were going for.. actually the breasts aren't totally outrageous but with that little body fat a woman doe snot usually have much in the way of breats.


Here fingers look a bit alien (too bulbous onthe finger tips) and the back of the kness wouldn't have that line going across them. The legs are way too thin and birdlike for anything close to a realistic human IMO.

The face is also a bit too baby dool looking which for me adds to the hybrid human alien look.

The topology looks great though.. no complaints there.

[Gilgamesh]

Alrighty. Thanks guys, I apreciate it.
I'll probably beef up the legs and arms a bit more, that seems like a good idea. I guess I didn't really realize how much volume I lost converting to SubD's. This is my first time using Maya SubD's. They're pretty cool, but I'm still getting used to tweaking the higher levels of detail. Since each level just subdivides by four, the detail I tried adding at first looked like it was on a grid.
All your guys's feedback was right on. Anyway, I'll do another pass on this model based on your advice. Until the next version, here the top of the hand and the back as requested.
http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/hand02.jpg
http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/backwire02.jpg

gmask, do you have any suggestions on how to make the face less "baby doll-like"?

Thanks again, I'll be back with an update later.

[gmask]

>>gmask, do you have any suggestions on how to make the face less "baby doll-like"?

Smaller eyes, bigger mouth and less forehead.

[Stahlberg]

The hands... I think they're also too flat, which is a thing I see in many people's models... they look like they're being pressed against a flat surface, relaxed neutral hands will usually have a slight curve along the knuckles. (Meaning, the pinkie will be lower than the index.)
And the index needs to be fatter.
The comment about the bulbous tips is right, the fingers need to be more streamlined or 'aerodynamic', on a woman at least. The thumb too.

Maybe you should tell us what you want to do with this model? I was thinking you were going for an extreme "Aeon Flux" kind of style, is that right? Or do you just want to create the typical super-heroine 'babe', mostly realistic but slightly idealized? If the first one, then you've succeeded, but if the second one, then she's way too thin in many places, as gmask mentioned.

And if the face is supposed to be 'idealised beautiful', then you need to smooth out those nasolabial folds, and thicken the lips at the inner corners. Also the brows seem sad right now, if that's not what you were going for then lift them a bit at the outer edges and smooth the forehead in the middle. (At the moment her face seems like it's slightly scared, or she's about to cry.)

[gmask]

can we see the head in profile?

[Gilgamesh]

I know the buxom beauty is one of the biggest cliche's of computer graphics, so it's hard to design a female character and not get sucked into that. I want to make her stylized, but I also want it to be an anatomy study.
I probably should have said something about the project initially. I'm building this character as a challenge to myself to get better at modelling and rigging and general character setup. The animation I have planned at the end is going to put her in acrobatic and extreme poses, so I want to take that into account throughout the creation process. My inspirations have definately been Aeon Flux as well as the Ghost in the Shell Manga. The poses those characters get into seem to break the limits of what a body should be able to do.
Granted, she should look pretty, too. Plenty of people make models ugly on accident. If she's pretty, it at least looks like you're doing something right. :)
Anyway, I'm also tired of seeing the same old model on every thread, but I'm hoping that I can make mine stand out when it comes to animation. Even so, I don't really have a style locked down yet (maybe that's my problem) so I'm open to suggestions. Usually I just go for it and let whatever style happens happen.

Until next time...

[Gilgamesh]

Head profile:
http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/head02.jpg

[sequestrian]

I'm very impressed... my only crits are very minor, but nonetheless grab my attention. I was looking at the hands, and something seemed funny to me. I think that the last bone on each finger would be a tad shorter. And perhaps come more to a point. Yeah, definitely more tapered towards the ends of the fingers. It will give the hands a more feminine appearance. Thinning the ankles would help, too. Also, I've noticed there are alot of breaks in your mesh edges, instead of flowing them together. I don't know if this is incredibly important, but I have noticed the best modelers tend to loop all of their contour lines. Anyhow, great model!

[sasquatch]

Nice work on the subDs - those'll make your brain hurt. From a quick look at the profile view, I'd say that you've got the ear a little low, and the corners of the mouth seem to be pulled too far back. Out of interest, are you using Peter Syomka's "Anna" as your head reference? It looks very similar.

Keep it up!

[Gilgamesh]

hehe, good call, she still bears some resemblance....Peter's model is just so damn good, it makes great reference.
I think I need to draw more pictures. I realized I don't really have a set design, I've kind of been modelling aimlessly, using a bunch of different references for form and topology.
I know should probably be drawing more, but do any of you guys actually sculpt anything as a precursor to modelling?
Anyway, I'm glad I posted, this feedback is great. I should do this more often. I haven't had a chance to work on this model again, but by the end of the week I'll post an update that covers a lot of what you guys have been suggesting.

[gmask]

>>I know should probably be drawing more, but do any of you guys actually sculpt anything as a precursor to modelling?

I think you mean in clay but I have a method of roughing out the form using primatives first and then tracing over them to fil out the form. Even if you don't trace over the combined shape sit's a great way to work out promortions cause it's real easy to move around prims and play around with form and volume.

You can get a sense for the process in my sideshow thread.

[Gilgamesh]

Update:
http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/bodyfront03.jpg
http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/bodyback03.jpg
http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/hand03.jpg
http://www.loomisanimation.com/WIP/face03.jpg
She's missing some teeth. Next time she'll wear her helmet.

[polyester]

Originally posted by Gilgamesh
I know should probably be drawing more, but do any of you guys actually sculpt anything as a precursor to modelling?

I don't use my sculptey as much as I should, but the method that works best for me is sketching out the model (front and side views at equal proportions) and then scanning them in; map them on planes to the side and back in your 3D interface and try to reference them for matching as you model.

I'm glad to see her with a little more meat on her, still could use a little more in the arms (shoulders). I know of someone who did a real thin and stretched model because they wanted to make it an exaggerated ballerina dancer. Because she was so thin, he ran into problems when it came to animating in that everything looked very plastic and stiff the way the joints were bending. There didn't appear to be any real muscle control. It's hard to explain. If you can imagine trying to animate a skeleton, it's difficult to not make it look stiff. I'm not sure how it works that way considering ballerinas are so thin yet so graceful.

Can't say much else other than what everyone else has already noted. Keep it up!

- Poly

[gmask]

Looking much better.. the head is much mroe realistice and has pretty much lost the baby doll look. The figners are much better.. I stillt hinkt he legs are extremely thin and the kness are unrealisitically thin. But they match the proporiton sof th earms.. which I ould think woudl also be too thin.. so if you thicken one the other has to be as well.

The wrists are way to flat.. it would be easier to see what's goign on with them in a straight on view.

[sequestrian]

The back needs some work. It's got a weird little ridge in the middle of the back that I really don't think should be there. Generally, I think that the shoulder blades create the only hard line and from there down, it's pretty smooth. The fingers still need to come to a point more, too.

[MJV]

There is still a crease over the nose that needs fixing. Looks pretty good, but boy is she anorexic. Maybe she lives in a low gravity world? Must be nice being able to use 5 sided polys. I have to model everything with three or four sides (Cinema4D). Man does that take discipline!

[Raul-Reznek]

hey Gilgamesh :D

(i didn't read what everyone else said)
why is she so thin, did u make her that way on purpose?
if not here is where i think there are problems of disporportion:
- the rib cage and the whole torso should be twice in width then it is now, it's width should be equal twice the hight of the face.
- the feet should be close to one another starting from the hips they should a subtle curve directed inwards, so the feet touch (hope u understand)
- her neck is too thin.

in general i think u have to work on thickness, a inspiring woman to me is more... consistent :D

[MunCHeR]

Mmm teeth missing, makes me think of the term "trailer trash" i dont know that she too thin, I know lots of skinny chicks god love 'em, anyway keep up the good work, you've inspired me to tackle a subd model again.

Cheers MunCHeR

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