Character: Corporate Male

[Daz]

I wanna get that sorta syndicate look, hes got a couple bumps in his head that i have to remove somehow

[Daz]

Wireframe

[coreybastiaans]

What you might want to work on is seeing the shape in a different way. you have to take a step back from your work and look at the shape you are describing with the computer. forget it is a head and see the shapes. It looks like you are creating the picture you have in your head of what a head looks like but not what the actual shapes are. What I'm trying to say is hard to describe, but Its kind of like when you are used to drawing a cartoon hand in a particular way through repetition, you remember the lines you are putting down because you are tracing the same shape you always have drawn but what you really should be doing is looking at your hand and drawing the shapes you see.

I think if you re look at the distances between features, and the angles of the features in general you will see much better results.

Great start but I think that you have room to grow here (and thats a good thing)

Hope this makes sense and helps.

[coreybastiaans]

when I model things, i usually keep an internet explorer window open with a drawing of the model shapes I want to achieve (concept art, photo reference of some kind, etc). I constantly switch between my 3d app and the artwork to make sure I am "staying on model" so that I don't stray too far from the desired result.

[coreybastiaans]

I keep thinking of things...

if you look at your hand, as though you were going to re create it, the impulse you have is to make a flat square and then pull four tubes out from the square and then pull a tube straight out for the thumb, but if you actually look closer at your hand and see the shapes that are going on there, you will notice that there is more complexity then you originally thought was there. Its like those police sketch composites of a criminal's face, they don't look like photos because the person can't remember all of the details, but rather your mind remembers a simplification of what is seen. If you work more directly from an actual photo or drawing, you will be able to notice the shapes that you didn't realize were there before.

[Electrofirma]

Quite honestly, if you are looking for a realistic human head you need to start over. Don't try and beat this model into shape, scrap it and get out to some tutorial sites.

Check out the topology research (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38469) thread. Also, especially while you are learning, work from reference images.

The bumps on the head which are giving you trouble were part of your base mesh, and smoothing/subd will only make them smoother bumps. Use tutorials to learn to build lowpoly meshes which smooth/sub-divide cleanly. Higher polycounts should be used to add detail, not to overcome low-poly modeling issues.

Before you can model a realistic weasely corporate businessman, you need to learn to model a realistic man.

I'm sorry if this wasn't what you wanted to hear, but I think it's true enough.

[Daz]

the picture makes it look worse than it is i rekon, because he has his mouth slightly open it gives him a really retarded look, i tweaked it a bit more and just so you know, i havent really started on the neck. I keep his mouth slightly open because its easier to make teeth and do the face rig, i know it aint going to be a super great model, but i've just started modeling

[Daz]

he looks a bit retarded with his mouth open like that, so you'll just have to ignore that, i'm still having trouble with the area around his mouth though so i'm working on that, his face is still a tad to pulled back but i think, but hes on his way to being my first fairly real character

try here is picture doesn't work -> http://www.deviantart.com/view/3299544/

http://images.deviantart.com/i/2003/40/a/9/WIP__Standard_Male_Head2.jpg

[Electrofirma]

In the other thread you said...
I'm just a beginnerNo problem there! We all start somewhere. I'm no profesional, I'm simply a hobbyist with a whole heap to learn. But I see you making a mistake that plagued me for quite some time. I ended up banging my head against the wall, because nothing I was doing was turning out well at all. I ended up going back and relearning the process from scratch, working through tutorials and reading on the methodology of modeling. I began to approach a model in a completely different way. I began to start questioning every low-poly wire... Why is it here? How does it help define this shape?

all the tutorials i've seen tell me to model things in low poly and then use nurms subdivision smoothing thingThis is very true. The point I'm trying to make is that the smoothing is like a file and sand paper. It is for finish work. I think your greatest benifit at this time would come from a focus on low poly modeling, getting the base structure correct.

(more to come)

[Daz]

thanks Electrofirma you gave me a better perspective on what you where saying, i'm not about to rig the face yet, well i'm obviosly far from it, but i'd like some opinions on what people think about using bones to animate the face

[Electrofirma]

Personally I don't think bones are the proper thing for facial animation. Blendshapes, clusters, and possibly influence objects would be better suited to the job, I think.

I'm attaching an image of my current wip. She is certainly far from perfect, and completely unfinished, but I want to help illustrate that I'm not just some talking head who hasn't thought through what I'm talking about.

[MoD_Legion]

Hi Daz,

Looks to me your wireframe is waaaay to dense, because you have so many lines if your model its hard to tweak and I think its also the root of all those weird bumbs and deformations you see on your model. (I assume that wire you posted is your actual poly cage).

Also, to me, the distance between the upper lip and nose is way to large and shaped rather odd. There are all sorts and manner of bumbs in it. If u look at your own lips u can see that that area is more smoother and that the upper line of the lip is more pinched. If u look at your lip from the side it should look more like a smoothed L shape if u get what i'm trying to say here.

Anyways, for me, like j_bond_hmss its also really helps to have reference material to look at when modeling. I'm building a character myself to and was rebuilding the back yesterday to make good topology and I just kept a picture of a human back open on my other monitor, this stuff really helps to make your own model look better. Same goes for ElectroFirma's advice, reading all u can about topology and other tutorials about face building only help as that way u learn more tricks and ways of doing things as u read.

One last thing, what software are u using? and we need some side/front shots (see the posting rules for this board).

One more last thing :P, I see u are sticking to only quads, but u might want to reconsider that, although I my self try to use as many quads as possible, sometimes tri's just make it look better. At some points your making it all quads is making your model having weird bumbs in places (that square bit under the right eye just above the checkbone, the part to the left of the nose where those 6 poly's meet and the part below the bottom right corner of the lips) Because u are forcing your model to be quads u see it results in deformations on those place, u might want to reconsider having all quads. I my self gave up on it and it works fine for me. (I'm not saying you *should* do it, it is prefectly possible to use only quads, but in the case of your current model I'd reconsider using only quads, unless that is, u decide to start over). This guys however uses his quads very well Good quads (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84920&perpage=15&pagenumber=3)

Cheers!

[Daz]

wierd bumps? no mates i fixed most of em all ages ago, time for an update i guess, the shnozz (nose for those less fortunate of a wierd culture) is giving me crap like a rabbit with daihria, if anyone knows where i can find a look at a good wireframe nose, i bless good karma to them. Or even post a nose right here, right in this very thread! Sure the ears need some work and i'll get to that, but the camera wont spend to much time there any way.

Yeh so i dont plan on making this guy Mr Shrek, Final Fantas-Ice-Neemo-Of the Osiris, since I'm only 18 i dont quite have the extentional expertice of a colledge degree because I live in a corrupt secretly socialist country with a rorted university system that only accepts people without artistic talent who study all day i may not be so privlidged.

Btw I aint started the neck yet, textures aren't finished either, but comments are still good on em

http://images.deviantart.com/i/2003/41/d/4/WIP__Corporate_Evil_Male.jpg
If image aint there travel over here ->
http://www.deviantart.com/view/3311470/


Edit: ohh yeh i just deleted to nose about to rework it ( just thought i should add that, not stupid enough to try to bang it into shape)

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