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Julez4001
10-03-2003, 08:02 AM
1. ...HYPERVOXELS RENDER FASTER

2. .... have a RENDER OUTPUT Manager (for multipass rendering)

3. GI - will it be faster

4. . ...HYPERVOXELS RENDER FASTER

xtrm3d
10-03-2003, 10:26 AM
???
are these information fact ?
or this is what you want ???:surprised

Mwai Kasamale
10-03-2003, 10:42 AM
LW8 has some of this stuff but most I'm hoping is LW8.5 LW9.0 stuff.

- NODE BASED SHADER TOOLS Sabre is cool but that should be built into LW.
- SHADER and TEXTURE UTILIY TOOLS (plugins but Nodes would be better)
-BLINN, LAMBERT, CONSTANT, GOURAUD, STRAUSS, TOON!!
- VOLUMETRIC CAUSTICS
- SPLINE IK
- TRUE GEOMETRY INSTANCING
- BETTER CONSTRAINTS
- POINT INFO or ID access (pre- and post-deformation) This looks like its in LW8
- Particle ID access
- A MORE INTERGATED way of linking everything to everything else. this is only possible through the merge of Layout and Modeler. Drag and drop of point ID = the number of particles emitted from that point. It gets ugly and slows LW down when one has to write expressions for EVERYTHING.
- FINAL GATHERING already there sortof
- AHH!! Very simple request but VERY NEEDED. The ability to view seperate cameras in seperate viewports. LW's gui, though very productive is NOT intuitive at all. Its the little things! :wip:
- Construction history (pipe dream but always willing to throw that one in)
- ORTHO CAMERA
- DirectX support
- OpenGL Scene/Model statistics
- FLUIDS
- HVoxels need to have that dissolve bug fixed
- HARDWARE particle renderer. ala JETFX
- AA Z-depth renders ala Asa Buffersaver
- AMBIENT Light with falloff, currently only achieveable with FI_Local Ambient plugin.
- VOLUME FX
- AN IN APP mini compositor. (Eventually all the big boys of CG will have a built in comping utility in-app) that Aura integration was crappy, if it was accessible in a viewport it would have been better, AHHH.
- VIEWPORT Motion Options/Item Properties/Camera Properties/ Render Option/ ParticleFX and Motion Designer. All accessible by converting a viewport into a property port.
- HTML browser. Would make project coordination easier and make Technical Direction easier.
- Master Channel stuff is nice but Custom attributes (float, integer, string etc) are faster than the current LW methodology

I'll add more to this list but thats what would make LW a complete tool out of the box instead of a support App.

takkun
10-03-2003, 10:57 AM
I hope for 8 that they fix some of the half-assed stuff that the previous Lightwave dev team created. Digital Confusion comes to mind, VIPER, Sub-d UV's.

But so far the stuff in 8 they've shown us looks great. Keep up the good work, Newtek!

Bytehawk
10-03-2003, 12:18 PM
I just hope
- that the things they've shown us thus far aren't the only major upgrades
- once they release it, it's polished and doesn't contain a gazilion of bugz

Julez4001
10-03-2003, 03:32 PM
Mwai Kasamale nice list....

Takkun, the will.... hv be faster was a question.
I don't want a extensive feature set, just make of the older features mor eoptimized and managemnet of assets better.
I just want a answer to a fwew thngs not a laundry list that I know will never get answered.

CIM
10-03-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Mwai Kasamale
LW8 has some of this stuff but most I'm hoping is LW8.5 LW9.0 stuff.

- NODE BASED SHADER TOOLS Sabre is cool but that should be built into LW.
- SHADER and TEXTURE UTILIY TOOLS (plugins but Nodes would be better)
-BLINN, LAMBERT, CONSTANT, GOURAUD, STRAUSS, TOON!!
- VOLUMETRIC CAUSTICS
- SPLINE IK
- TRUE GEOMETRY INSTANCING
- BETTER CONSTRAINTS
- POINT INFO or ID access (pre- and post-deformation) This looks like its in LW8
- Particle ID access
- A MORE INTERGATED way of linking everything to everything else. this is only possible through the merge of Layout and Modeler. Drag and drop of point ID = the number of particles emitted from that point. It gets ugly and slows LW down when one has to write expressions for EVERYTHING.
- FINAL GATHERING already there sortof
- AHH!! Very simple request but VERY NEEDED. The ability to view seperate cameras in seperate viewports. LW's gui, though very productive is NOT intuitive at all. Its the little things! :wip:
- Construction history (pipe dream but always willing to throw that one in)
- ORTHO CAMERA
- DirectX support
- OpenGL Scene/Model statistics
- FLUIDS
- HVoxels need to have that dissolve bug fixed
- HARDWARE particle renderer. ala JETFX
- AA Z-depth renders ala Asa Buffersaver
- AMBIENT Light with falloff, currently only achieveable with FI_Local Ambient plugin.
- VOLUME FX
- AN IN APP mini compositor. (Eventually all the big boys of CG will have a built in comping utility in-app) that Aura integration was crappy, if it was accessible in a viewport it would have been better, AHHH.
- VIEWPORT Motion Options/Item Properties/Camera Properties/ Render Option/ ParticleFX and Motion Designer. All accessible by converting a viewport into a property port.
- HTML browser. Would make project coordination easier and make Technical Direction easier.
- Master Channel stuff is nice but Custom attributes (float, integer, string etc) are faster than the current LW methodology

I'll add more to this list but thats what would make LW a complete tool out of the box instead of a support App.

If you want features like that, then why don't you go get Maya or a similar program that'll do what you want, and add that to your pipeline? Why wait around hoping that Newtek might add those features in the future?

minus
10-03-2003, 11:35 PM
Just to answer Cims question for myself... :)
I think it would have something to do with not having tons of money laying around.... or possibly even not having Maya in your work-flow currently with the rest of the people you work with. ;)

Mwai Kasamale
10-04-2003, 01:25 AM
Well it IS a question of money and current studio tools. I am taking part in the Houdini Certified Training program and It is what I would love LW to be. Very accessible and capable of ANYTHING without plug-ins(there aren't that many anyway). Tthough I know it isn't and have to deal with that. There are those days your working in LW and a problem (well not really a problem but a lacking of necessary tool) in LW shows up and I have to write an L-script to fix it. Though this is the desired workflow; I'm of the mindset that this should only ever happen when a problem is really hard to fix. Or should I say if I have to do this I would love L-script to have RealTime integration with LW.

If I could afford Maya I still wouldn't get it; I'd wait till I could afford Houdini, I currently use Houdini Select. I thinks its the future. I Love LW and will always use it cuz, even with all the amazing features of Houdini it is slower in Flow than LW. I make this wish-list becuase Houdini can only improve little things to make it better, whereas LW's development seems to have stalled in many respects. Granted I appreciate all the hard work NT has put into LW, but I approach LW from a technical technologists standpoint and it seems to have plenty of technology but not enough- or should I say enough fluid integration in comparison to programs that previously lacked many of the praised features of LW. Those days are gone and appz can compete on level ground insofar as features.

LW8 Looks like a really cool step towards this goal though. The Bone dynamics and hard/soft body, and particle editing implimentation look nice. I just think NT needs to invest more in R&D. If I owned NT I'd XSI it. I met a Softimage Engineer while in Vancouver a year ago and he informed me of how XSI came to be what it now is. The R&D team on XSI was pretty big and pro-active. they went out to studios and University researchers looked at what they came up with and tried putting the tools into XSI, Like what Steve Worley currently does for his suite of excellent plug-ins. This is what NT should be doing. Financial Management withstanding; Imagine if NT had under their R&D team Steve Worley, Lukaz Pazur, Wojciech Jarosz and a ton of others. they release LW9 and 2 years go by when out of the blue LW PI comes out and its 100 times what its competition is, and has develped in such a way that improvements and technology innovation can easily be implimented. Thats where XSI is now and inspite of the market being dominated by Alias, XSI is 50times more advanced than Maya will ever be because the technology in development now can easily be adopted by XSI in comparison to Maya and LW for that matter.

I'm ranting, but you get what i'm trying to say. bang for buck LW gives you alot for $1600 as a user I'll suggest and do all I can to maximize such an investment. LW8 Looks awesome and I look forward to even more for LW8.5 and beyond.

Nemoid
10-04-2003, 11:14 AM
You are very right. a company wich wants its product to be competitive in the market and for SFX industries must do great research and development to enhance the app. I think this depends from two factors

1) money. a company like Nt is not Alias, or Avid. its smaller, and so maybe that they simply cannot afford hiring Worley company and other great people to work with them.
actually, if Lw was developed from Worley, then apps like Maya or XSI wuold be blown out quite surely. Worley really rocks.
but what about the final price of Lw?

2) this is more subtle. all also depends on the opinion the company itself have of its product. if a company is very proud of their product, the company trust in it, and so when implement tools and features do this very well, deeply in a very clever way, with good testing to end up with a good workflow and great power. less features, more cleverness in implementing them.

now that they are free from Lux affair, Nt seems to be in great development of current version of Lw.
but its clear that an entire rewrite like Softimage made with XSI would be required for the next future. why keep on developing an old app, when you'd better have to rewrite it to be competitive?

I really hope they will do a rewrite for the future. this being said I'm wondering about the price. Ok, XSI is a very very good program used in huge movie productions, great companies. but its the more expensive out there.and Maya Unlimited too even if its cheaper than XSI.

Right now, Lw is one of the few apps wich allows the solo user to do complete works, from modelling to animating to rendering, at a good price. this means that a single artist can afford all that easily and create huge 3D works by himself if he wants too.
obviously, you get what you pay for.

from the POV of a huge company Lw is still good for modelling, and in some case for rendering, even if new solo rendering engines have entered in their pipeline together with Renderman.
but in this case, Lw is not SO good for final movie productions in animations, because of its limitations and problems derived from its structure and being based on an old code and way of thinking.
also, Alias an Avid develop tools for movie productions and every huge movie becomes the base of R&D for them.

so, for example one artist wich do freelance works or has his small company will go with Lw, because its affordable, to start with 3D in an easy and not expensive way.he have to produce images and animations, so the final work is wich it counts.even if this can require more workarounds, things more difficult to do, etc.

an artist wich wants to work for great companies, can start with Lw, but now have to take in consideration of learning Maya or XSI, because they are used in huge companies. in this case, a Lw/Maya or XSI pipeline would be great (if its afforadable). since out there there are demos and PLE versions there is no prob to learn a package and so developing skills and search for a job related to these major products. there are companies wich use Lw too, but its quite a risk knowing only Lw in this case. in fact they use Lw mainly for modelling, and other packages for animation and rendering.

so, you see these are he considerations one artist have to do, in the current situation.
maybe the future of Lw will be very bright as I hope. Nt is surely working hard to enhance Lw with good ideas and mantain its price as well.

but for now, the facts are these.



Originally posted by Mwai Kasamale
Well it IS a question of money and current studio tools. I am taking part in the Houdini Certified Training program and It is what I would love LW to be. Very accessible and capable of ANYTHING without plug-ins(there aren't that many anyway). Tthough I know it isn't and have to deal with that. There are those days your working in LW and a problem (well not really a problem but a lacking of necessary tool) in LW shows up and I have to write an L-script to fix it. Though this is the desired workflow; I'm of the mindset that this should only ever happen when a problem is really hard to fix. Or should I say if I have to do this I would love L-script to have RealTime integration with LW.

If I could afford Maya I still wouldn't get it; I'd wait till I could afford Houdini, I currently use Houdini Select. I thinks its the future. I Love LW and will always use it cuz, even with all the amazing features of Houdini it is slower in Flow than LW. I make this wish-list becuase Houdini can only improve little things to make it better, whereas LW's development seems to have stalled in many respects. Granted I appreciate all the hard work NT has put into LW, but I approach LW from a technical technologists standpoint and it seems to have plenty of technology but not enough- or should I say enough fluid integration in comparison to programs that previously lacked many of the praised features of LW. Those days are gone and appz can compete on level ground insofar as features.

LW8 Looks like a really cool step towards this goal though. The Bone dynamics and hard/soft body, and particle editing implimentation look nice. I just think NT needs to invest more in R&D. If I owned NT I'd XSI it. I met a Softimage Engineer while in Vancouver a year ago and he informed me of how XSI came to be what it now is. The R&D team on XSI was pretty big and pro-active. they went out to studios and University researchers looked at what they came up with and tried putting the tools into XSI, Like what Steve Worley currently does for his suite of excellent plug-ins. This is what NT should be doing. Financial Management withstanding; Imagine if NT had under their R&D team Steve Worley, Lukaz Pazur, Wojciech Jarosz and a ton of others. they release LW9 and 2 years go by when out of the blue LW PI comes out and its 100 times what its competition is, and has develped in such a way that improvements and technology innovation can easily be implimented. Thats where XSI is now and inspite of the market being dominated by Alias, XSI is 50times more advanced than Maya will ever be because the technology in development now can easily be adopted by XSI in comparison to Maya and LW for that matter.

I'm ranting, but you get what i'm trying to say. bang for buck LW gives you alot for $1600 as a user I'll suggest and do all I can to maximize such an investment. LW8 Looks awesome and I look forward to even more for LW8.5 and beyond.

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