Character: Female "queen of whatever" head

[Garma]

Removed to improve loading speed - see below

[Tiburon3D]

Good start.

It appears to me that you have some proportion problems. I think your character's chin needs to be bigger, the ears need to be larger and rotated more in toward the head, the head itself looks a bit too tall and too wide above the ears. The eyes should be centered in the face.

The neck might be a little too narrow, also, but it's hard to tell in the pictures.

Keep up the good work.

Oh yeah, you might want to wait to do the jewelry/crown until you're done with the head. It might save you some time later.

Tiburon3D

[Garma]

thanks for your crits! I'll work on the things you mention.

About the eyes.. Do you mean they must be higher? I'm not sure about the size of the ears though... they already are larger than on my reference...

And about the jewelry, yea I know but I really needed to do something different, just for fun. I didn't finish them also for that reason.

thanks!

[edit] Updates. Overall shape fixed.
http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/persp_front.jpg http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/persp_frontright.jpg http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/persp_side.jpg

[Garma]

http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/wire_side.jpg http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/wire_front.jpg

I'm seriously in trouble about the other things Tiburon3D mentions, especially about the ears. Imho their size is good and they maybe need to stand out a little more. I'm thinking about reducing the size of the nose and the eyes a little. Please let me know what you guys think!

[PlebianX]

The overall facial structure seems to be a bit heavy to me, the forehead's too tall. Other than that you could also re-place the edgeloops, the ones you have don't quite follow the underlying muscles and topology. Good examples can be found here. (http://coldfusion.art.msstate.edu/camenisch/thehumanhead/)

[Marcel]

I think you have too many edgeloops around the mouth and in the eyes, and also in the nose.
Those outer edgeloops around the eye for example don't add much to the shape, so it is much wiser to delete them. This will make your surface much easier to tweak, meaning you can work faster, which enables you to try out more things, that in turn will result in a better model :)

For quick proportion tests I always import a screenshot in PS7 and use 'liquify' to test some stuff out. Much faster than trying it out in the 3d app.

Here are two images by Peter Syomka, absolutely brilliant topology:

http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0204.jpg
http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0205.jpg

[Garma]

thank you both for your replies. marcel I took a look at them and noticed that the edgeloops on the images are not all continuous.. for example on the nose, on top of the head and around the mouth I see edgeloops that merge... Isn't that bad? I thought it was.. I saved the images for reference. I'll try to reduce the amount of loops.

thanks for the liquify tip, gonna test it out tonight

Allright I did a lot of tweaking in the meantime. I also added some temporarely shaders, which make it easier to see what I'm doing. The skin will certainly be a different color, I kinda like the jewel this way, but that's something for later on.

tweaks:

chin is wider now
upper head is smaller
ears stand out a little more.
eyes a little smaller
tip of nose smaller

And, of course, critics are highly appreciated. Sorry for the seam and the apparent colordifference between left and right but I had problems with lighting.

[edit] I just noticed the strange lower eyelid myself, I'll fix it

http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/texture/persp_front.jpg http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/texture/persp_frontright.jpg

[sequestrian]

the cheek bones seem a bit pinched, perhaps make them more round and full... also, the ears seem to stick out too much... other wise, good beginning...

[Garma]

thanks again. Here's my latest update. I worked more on the eyes since they look kinda alien in the previous renders. I'm thinking about considering the modelling part finished and moving on to texturing. What do you guys think? I'm pretty satisfied with her. Before I move on I will remove some unnecessairy edgeloops as Marcel advised. crits are still very much appreciated. The smoothing is not too good, but I'll fix that. I removed the jewelry for now to give you the best view on her.

removed to improve loading speed

[hpslashluvr]

She has a horrible overbite like me.;)
You need to bring that part of her mouth back.

You might wanna give her a stronger chin, it's pretty tiny and weak right now.

Also, her neck seems funny, I dunno it's just the angle but it seems rather nonexistent?

[MoD_Legion]

Yo erik ;),

Now that u finally got some more shots for me to look at i'll give u some crits, here goes:

- The top part of the skull is waaay to high (it looks oke in the 3d view, but u can see in the orthogonal it to big), usually the eyes are about halfway (or even a bit higher, I seem to remember reading they should be at 2/3 height of the face(?) the height of the face.
- Jaw line, she aint got none of that, just feel your own jaw just under your ear, it sticks out and is a bit L shapish, but your head is to round, also, cant really see in the last shots, but the throat needs to be moved back a bit (with the fixed chin it might already look better, and a stronger jaw line will help this to).
- And in the last pics see seems to have dent in here for head, it looks like u moved the seam inwards a bit.

The face looks good from the front though, I think most the problems lie in the side view so if you could post another wire from the side we can see a bit better how all your changes affected the side view and perhaps what needs more tweaks.

I might be me posting my orc this afternoon (if my hosting doesnt decided to stop showing my homepage again) so u can have a swing at it :P.

Greetz.

[Garma]

Hello all

@hpslash: thanks, I took the upper lip a little back. At first I didn't agree with the overbite thing, but now I do I guess.. I'll fix it later You were right about the neck. I fixed it a little but I ain't going to put very much time in it since it will hardly be visible in the final image.

@MoD_legion: Ey nice to have you around! Looking forward to your orc, the preview looked stunning. About the eyes: they are a little above the center now, I'm fine with them. I fixed the cheek bone, you were right about that. I took the throat a little back, and I think she can use some more.

Two more fixes:

- removed some edgeloops (included new wires)
- eyes.

The previous image was a not very well smoothed image, this ones are better though the subdiv level still needs to be higher. I'll fix the throat and the chin tonight and update this post.

[edit]chin and throat fixed. I didn't update the wires yet.

http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/texture/new/front.jpg http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/texture/new/side.jpg

wires:
http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/texture/new/wirefront.jpg http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/texture/new/wireside.jpg

[hpslashluvr]

head's a little too tall and way too wide (as in the area behind the ear). I'm not saying model ickle little anime heads, but it seems stretched horizontally. I would move the mouth into a slightly straighter line. That's what I mean by overbite. ;) I had to get 4 teeth removed because of it.

[Garma]

oww right now I got ya. Well thanks, I fixed both your comments. I didn't make the lips a straight line because my reference ain't got that neither. But thanks for pointing it out, it was too strong.

I updated the pictures above.

cheers

[Garma]

hello people,

Sorry I didn't update for a while, I was busy with some other stuff.

Instead of moving on to texturing I decided leave the pure human female concept and go for a little more creative mood. Please tell me what you think about it. I already want to push the tentacle-things on top of the head closer to the head.

Please excuse the seam. I am also very interested in personal opinions.

http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/mod/persp_right.jpg http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/mod/persp_front.jpg

[eYadNesS]

This face is for Male of Female!
What's this lines going out for her head!? So why you ask for Soanala hair! You said you will try PaintFX!...

I had looked to most of your posts, I think you are new in human modeling, and you want to be like Soa from Soanala.com , this will be very hard to you to start like this way!
For the head shape try to start drawing free hand for human faces, this will make you better in knowing your mistakes... and look for human faces (from magazines websites friends and more).

See this site for some females faces
http://www.attraktivefrauen.de/facegal/gal01.htm
This will help you some much

And try to use reference when you are modeling (from the free hand that you draw or any picture), and look from the anatomy books this will help you more...

Finally look for the top artists gallery this will help you very much...

:)

[Garma]

I'm sorry I'm a little confused about your post eYadNesS. FOr the reference part, actually I did use a lot of reference, can't you see that? The front is almost an exact copy of soanala's "elene" (check her website). Please state what exactly is wrong. I also don't understand what you mean by "This face is for Male of Female!"

At first I wanted to follow soanala for the largest part, but I changed my mind, and it wasn't too late for that yet, so.. what's the problem? You do understand that this ain't a cheap solution for hair right?

Oh and thanks for the link, there's a lot of good reference in there!

[Lordrych]

Hey Garma great model here, you might want to try and fix the little crease at the side of nostrol where it meets the cheeks......and anatomically speaking the bottom lip should be bigger than the top, it adds more of a sexy look. the other thing is that her forehead needs a little more detail you need to add the temples in.

Rych

[Tiburon3D]

I think eYadNesS meant he didn't know if the face was male OR female. I agree that it's hard to distinguish your character's gender apart from your thread title, ie "Queen." Use the reference link above and try to make her look more feminine.

Also, maybe blend the front of the ears with the side of her head more.

Keep it up.

Tiburon3D

[Garma]

thanks you both for your replies. Hm, I think you may be having a point tiburon3D but what exactly defines a female? Are there some good documents on this? I guess the lower lip is part of this, like LordRych stated. Do you know how this is possible (considering that I created an almost exact copy of a female reference)?

I'll be on holiday for about a week, so I won't work on it then but I really am still interested in your opinions.

[gmask]

The profile of your character head is very strange.. Women typically have high check bones yours are sunken.. the bridge of the nose should be higher and further out than it is currently.

http://gmaskfx.com/cgtalk/remake.jpg

[Tiburon3D]

Can you post your reference? I'm really interested in seeing the image(s) you're modelling from.

[eYadNesS]

He said, the reference from Elene Soalana.com

[Garma]

Hi all,

Returned yesterday from a wonderful 5-day-trip on foot through the odessa, pyrenees. It's just amazing. We can do a lot in 3D and 2D but pure reality is still out of our reach, that's one thing I've seen. Thank you all very much for your reactions, I appreciate them all very much.

Ok before going on to the new renders I'd like to explain my process. At first I used Elene from soanala.com as a ref, but that turned out to be not a very good idea since I only have a front view of her, of course. Since this is my first real character don't have experience with proportions etc, so it turned out wrong. When I was done the model wasn't female nor male. I've searched the internet for some information about the characteristic female/male differences and I found it, pretty much the same as you guys state and more. Here's a list of what I changed. She doesn't look like elene anymore but at least she looks female now I guess.

1. increased the size of the lower lip (lordrich, thanks)
2. decreased the size of the mouth
2. blended the ears (thanks tiburon3d)
3. made the overall shape more oval
4. bridge of nose fixed (gmask)
5. pulled the cheekbones up a little(gmask again)
6. added more tentacles (but don't mind them, need to work on them a lot)
6. made the nose a little less wide
7. removed the overbite.

here we go. smoothed and rendered pretty low quality to improve rendertime. Don't mind the texture.

[edit] updated version.
http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/nextstage/persp.jpg http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/nextstage/front.jpg

wires
http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/nextstage/wires.jpg

[gmask]

She looks much cuter from the front view now.. The profile still looks a little unsual but in the finished piece it may add some character.. I still feel like the eyes are not as receased as they should be in comparison to the cheek bones.

The nose is also still too thin.. the taper towards the cheeks should be more gradual and softer than it is currently.

[Garma]

hi all, I am not updating as regularly as I wish I could but that's due to the fact that I'm currently busy with some examinations. In my spare time I'm busy finding texture references for my char. I didn't start texturing yet but I've tried out a few things. I suspect texturing will take long since I think that's the hardest part, and I am new to human texturing.

gmask thanks for your comment. I am not sure what you mean by "receased", I feel stupid but I don't know that word and it's not in my dictionary either :/ sorry. I adjusted them though, I think they are better now. The nose is thin, I agree. I adjusted the taper towards the cheeks. Maybe I will make the nose thicker in the future, I don't want to screw up the front view since that's the view I need.

[edit] by the way I updated the images above. And more comments are still appreciated.

thanks!

[gmask]

>>>gmask thanks for your comment. I am not sure what you mean by "receased", I feel stupid but I don't know that word and it's not in my dictionary either :/ sorry. I adjusted them though, I think they are better now.

Hmm.. other words to replace recessed (sorry I misspelled ) would be sunken, inset or deep. The issue is that the eyes appear to be in the same plane as the cheek bones.

[Garma]

okay, now I get you. What a typo can do... Anway, recessing the eyes is exactly what I did, do you think it's better this way? I just uploaded new renders (above) and pulled the nose a little back, making it less pointy.

I didn't update the wires, i'm sorry.

[hpslashluvr]

I don't think it's so much as eyes being recessed as much as pulling cheekbones up and out. That's a funky shadow on the perspective view nose. ;) I'd make her nose a tad bit wider. Sorry for the short critique, but I think everyone's just about said everything. *cries*

[DDS]

Wow this head is just getting cool!!, but now on the critiques:

-I think the chin is too sharp as told on the begining of the thread, I think it still has quite sharpness that you could avoid making the lower part of the chin more smooth and put it more down.

-The ear is quite weird, I know It isn't human, but as the proportions are human, then the ear could be a human ear, but with that elfic touch, like on the lord of the rings, I suggest you to model it apart, and the stick it on the face.

-The eyes need some more work, look at your surrounding people. That "pink" think that is on the inner side whatever it's said, I think it doesn't exist at your model, you must put it, it gives the eye an important feeling.

Well, I think those are some important things to change, I hope I help, bye!

[nineinchneil]

the eyes, nose and mouth are way too low on the skull. that's what is making the chin look so small. just try and picture an xray of that head; it would be a very wierd looking skull! i don't necesarily believe that the eyes should be centered on the face. that doesn't take into consideration the fact that the temple is going to be enormous. also, the ears are too big. as a rule of thumb, the top of the ear shouldn't go past the level of the eyes, and the bottom of the ear shouldn't go past the end of the nose.

[3D_Mike]

Women generally have a more round face. Your chin especially is too sharp. Then again I didnt read all the comments so perhaps someobody else has already mentioned this. gj on the eye btw

[Garma]

thank you all very much for your comments guys. I don't reply too much but I took them all into consideration. I will post updates soon, but I have been busy with my other projects, I have deadlines for that one :)

The chin is fixed by the way :) almost everyone mentioned that. thanks again.

[Garma]

righty, it's been more than 3 months since I last put my hands on this month but well, I was busy with loads of other things. I just finished my last examination for this semester and now I'm 3 weeks off. I decided to finish the projects I still have around, and this is the first. Thanks, all of you, for your reactions. As you see I added shaders. Break them down please :) first time human shading so all beginners mistakes are still around.

what is updated:
- The chin is fixed.
- I added shaders
- I completely redid the tentacles. I don't know what I want with them :( I don't want to make a standard human head that's why I added them, but I need the face to remain as human as possible since I'm doing this to learn myself human modelling. I don't like the colours and they need more smoothing (especially the parts that extruded from hte head).

what needs to be done:
- reduce specularity. Should I reduce the complete specmap or just lower local values?
- tentacles. Any cool ideas on this?

Now crit her to death please! I'm dutch so I can have it ;) She looks better from the perspective view than from the side and front view. Any thoughts how that might come?


here we go. If s/o wants wires I'll add them, but the loops still didn't change.

removed to improve loading speed

[Garma]

updates:

- added diffusemap
- added eyelashes
- lowered specmap
- finetuned the lip
- changed the "overbite" feel she had.

http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/shaded/pers2.jpg

[Garma]

updates:

- improved the lip textures (still not happy with them though)
- added eyebrows (paintFX)

thinking about moving on to the rest of the head.

picture from below for a change.

http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/eyes/persp.jpg

[Giacomo_M]

Garma-

Looks good. The only thing that leaps out at me is that she has almost *no* upper eyelid...I'd definitely address that before moving on.

Other minor tweaks are in the attached JPG, although they're all sort of small:

http://home.earthlink.net/~bucket/comments.jpg

[uberyoda]

Hey, I have a couple crits, one: flatten the under side of the nose, slightly. Second: push out the zygomatic arch (cheek bone) slightly, make it slightly higher on the head. Eye's might be too big, but there is more work. I'm just starting XSI modeling so I'm pretty knew and don't really know how hard those changes would be to make.

-Will.

[freka01]

The gap under her nose, the upper lip crevice kinda thing, its way too wide!

[Garma]

thanks a lot guys, your input is of great value to me.

updates:

- made a start with the hair
- reformed the extrusions on the head
- added upper eyelid (Giacomo_M)
- thickened the Helix (Giacomo_M)
- redid the lighting
- flattened the crevice under the nose (uberyoda)
- made the crevice under the nose less wide (freka01)

again, thanks to you all.

@ Giacomo_M : Thanks for your picture. There actually was an upper eyelid, it just wasn't too pronounced. I pulled it down a little. Too much resulted in a very dull look. Also I noticed that on 2/3 of my reference the upper eyelid was very hard to see. this one (http://www.correct-proportion.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=51&pos=33) is just one example. Any comments on this would be highly appreciated.

Of course this also goes for my updated girl especially on the hair. I tried to do it the way Stahlberg does it with Melissa (recently plugged here)

http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/lighted/hairimp.jpg

[Giacomo_M]

Garma-

This is coming along nicely. I checked out the photo link you included. You're right-you can't see much upper eyelid in the photo.

Generally, though, in both drawing (even comics) and sculpture, the forms of both upper and lower eyelids are defined and emphasized, even if that's not strictly photorealistic.

Going where I perhaps wasn't invited, I suppose my deeper critique of this piece is that the individual features could stand to be emphasized and exaggerated *much more* than they currently are. What you have posted looks good, but not highly distinctive or descriptive of character.

G

[Garma]

I know what you're talking about with the upper eyelid and you're right. Check my other wip (in sig) and you see that I make extensive use of the upper eyelid for the emotional dog I'm working on.

that's definately no problem, adressing the individual features, I'm very interested :). Could you explain that a little more? What kind of things do you mean, any examples?

I think the reason is that I didn't use one reference for her, I sort of defined the proportions myself :) "one" as in multiple, not as none ;)

I don't know if I'm gonna change it (I will small changes) but I'm definately interested for future models. Any links maybe?

[Giacomo_M]

>that's definately no problem, adressing the individual features, I'm very interested :). Could you explain that a little more? What kind of things do you mean, any examples?

This is a hard question to answer. The best I can say, somewhat pompously, is that the answer lies in the difference between a great sculpture and a human body. If you saw an actual person with the facial proportions of Michelangelo's "David," you'd think, "What a freak!" The forms are SO clearly defined that they would look bizarre on an actual human- but masterful and great as a sculpture.

>I think the reason is that I didn't use one reference for her, I sort of defined the proportions myself :)

Shame on you. The number-one cause for a bad model, in my opinion, is a sloppy underlay. Or worse, no underlay at all.

>I don't know if I'm gonna change it (I will small changes) but I'm definately interested for future models. Any links maybe?

No links, but I'd recommend the books "Drawing the Head and Figure," by Jack Hamm; "Drawing The Human Head," by Burne Hogarth; and "The Hidden Elements of Drawing," by Joseph Mugnaini. All three books focus on drawing the human body by studying its component parts and how they relate....I suspect the best way to get really at 3D-sculpting forms is to work from one's own drawings rather than copying photos.

Hope that helps. I've been struggling with this for a couple years myself and I'm still not brave enough yet to post any of my own work.

G

[Garma]

Thanks, I'll pay attention to it next time. small update so I updated the image above.

updates:

- hair improved
- added clothes
- defined muscles in the neck area

[Garma]

yes, yes, another update ;)

updates

- added emotion
- added jewelry

to do

- fix the transparency map of the front part of the hair (on her shoulder)
- expand textures near the extrusions.

Right guys I experimented somewhat with the jewelry but I don't think it adds to the picture. I think I'm gonna leave it out. What do you think? Maybe idea's for shading?

The emotion: I want her to look slightly sad. Did I succeed? I've been thinking about a tear but I don't know if that would be over the hill. Maybe just a tearduct?

thanks

removed in order to increase loading speed

[Giacomo_M]

Looks good. The way you've got that subtle tension in her mouth makes it really look like she's trying not to cry. Well done!

My first thought is: adjust the lashes so they're growing from the EDGE of the lid- right now it looks like they're growing out from under the eyelid. (I know she's an alien, but that's just TOO weird. ;))

In fact, her whole eyeball/eyelid area needs work. The real-life human eyelid has an actual thickness- it projects out a bit from the surface of the eyeball. Right now, her upper lids are sort of sloping into her eyeball.

It also looks like her lower lid is thrust forward more than would be normal on a human. Remember, the lower eyelid sits *back* 45 degrees from the upper.

Regarding the eyeball itself, the cornea/pupil area (the colored part) feels slightly too big for the eye opening area, but that might be the fault of the way the lids are modeled. The reflective surface of the eye also feels MUCH too specular.

As a minor note, your rendering is also showing a lot of angular subdivisions. I'd suggest increasing the subdivision patch number until that goes away (that's Lightwave terminology. It might be called something else in Max or Maya).

Regards,

G

[wang4wang]

the skin is wonderful,u use layer shade to make that?
the position of the lips might be changed a little.
move it a little bit closer to the nose.
and change a smile expression(this is a personal idea).
u may tell me how to make that skin,hehe.

[TheGreenGiant]

Hello.

from the wires, its kind of apparent her chin jaw area is too squat. You really ought to normalise/lengthen it to get the model looking better. Her eyes should come down a bit too - they are too far up - they look like they're next to the tip of the nose ridge. That bit of depression above the lip looks way too wide and the way the ear joins the face is a bit squarish. You might want to align it a little better. Are you using reference images?

TGG

[Garma]

thanks again for your comments.

general

@Giacomo_M: I do agree with you about the eyelid but I have the feeling I'm pushing my limits here. What you saw was also due to strange lighting, so I changed that. I moved the lashes a little and made the eyelid slightly thicker. About the cornea, I don't think it is bad if it's slightly too big, it improves the innocent feeling. You were right about the subdivisions, I am currently smoothing with 1 subdivision but i will convert to subD's for the final render.

@wang4wang: I changed the lips a little, thanks. I have a certain feel in my mind so I need her to look sad :) I keep that this way. For the skin: it was made after the skintutorial of Steven Stahlberg. I adjusted some minor things. you can find a discussion about it here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113880). the url to the tut is in there. The maps are all painted with wacom and photoshop.

@TheGreenGiant: the wires from the 2nd page are outdated. I will post new wires soon, indeed I changed the jaw area. I tried to fix the ears, not happy yet.

updates

- moved the lashes
- fixed lighting
- textured the tentacles
- fixed the hairshader
- lowered the reflectivity of the eye
- fixed the ears (still not happy)

to do

- thrust the inner side of the lower eyelids a little back.
- work more on the hair
- fix the ears
- environment

http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/lighted/newlights.jpg

[Garma]

this is a quick test with the environment. I handpainted that wall, it was a whole lot of fun to do. I left some accessoires out to keep rendertime reasonable. Since I added that wall, rendertimes dropped tremendously. it's a 2000*1500 map, you are seeing color, spec, diffuse and bump. It's not just the maps, I also had to change the lighting to linear dropoff for every light since I wanted the wall to become rather dark.

I also turned the head a little, but I overdid it. I'll fix that. Also the wall is too evenly lighted imo so I'll see what I can do about that. No that i look at it the lighting differs too much from my previous setup, and I prefer the previous so I'm gonna fix that too.

removed in order to increase loading speed

[eYadNesS]

Where spec, diffuse and bump maps?!

[Garma]

hi eyadness, nice to have you on this thread. If you mean the spec dif and bump on the wall, they are very subtle. Do you think I need to increase the effects?

It is also due to low lighting you don't see too much of it. Take a look to the right of her neck, it's most visible there. I think you are right with the unpainted wall: i will increase the bump there. Only the paint has spec.

[eYadNesS]

Hi Garma,
Ya, I used to see your updates :)
Maybe I'm wrong, I think you are taking about the head model! That you have made spec, diffuse and bump maps... And I dont see them on her..
Nevermind ;)

What hapen to her eyes? Is she crying?

[Garma]

hi all,

this is a full quality render, she was a bitch to render and I forgot to increase the subdivision level :( but anyway here goes

eyadnes, I use a layered shader for the skin and I assigned one of the layers so there were no highlights but now it is fixed. the bump and diffuse are very very subtle but I'm fine with that

I am coming close to finishing this piece so crit it to death please. I want to hear anything from composition to lighting to modelling - just everything. I am also submitting this into the evocative forum now.

by the way the tearduct is still on the list.
[edit] .. and we have a tear.

thanks

http://csr.oli.tudelft.nl/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/wall/fullrender.jpg

[edit] server down expect it to be up very soon

[Stillwell]

Hello! Coming along nicely, as I can see. I didn't read the whole post, I'm kind of in a hurry right now, but the ear are too elevated. Even if it's an Elven ear, the lower part of the ear should be aligned with the lips, and the upper part of the ear, (not the pointy part, but like if it was normal) should be aligned with the eyes. Also, there should be a more reasonable distance between the eyes and the ear, it's too far on the back.

Another little thing: the model seems to be illuminated quite a bit, compared to the rest of the wall. A direct light should diffuse a bit on the wall, and not just on the face. There also seems to be a weird shadow on the side of her nose.

The rest is just great!

Edit: Here's an image I made to explain:
http://www.99vs1.net/images/corr.jpg

[Garma]

the people in the evocative forum have helped me a bit on composition, so it has changed quite a bit. The new composition and lighting already revealed some new errors which I corrected, maybe you guys see more. There's a new face shader so crit away.

removed for the known reason :)

[Stillwell]

I don't know if it's me, but the picture is of crappy quality. I see the eyes all pixelized (sp?).

As far as the anatomy goes, refer to my post above. Lighting is definitely better though, although it's too dark. But the lights in the scene makes sense. Good work.

[Garma]

Stillwell: I think you are right about the anatomy. However I didn't have time yet to fix it. I think it's gonna be some work to fix that since I will also need to move the hair and the extrusions. I also wanted to do some work on the shaders (concrete and face).

by the way indeed the quality is crappy, but this was already a bitch to render. Of course the final version will be optimal quality :)

[|||Dusty_AJ|||]

cute

[Garma]

allright, very close to finish now. I experimented a little in photoshop with a high-q render.

here's the link to the original render (http://oli.tudelft.nl/csr/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/hq/highquality.jpg)

the first is no changes (just "helped" the dof a little)
the second is just "autolevels"
the third is a diffuse glow after the autolevels.

http://oli.tudelft.nl/csr/huizen/hg/wip/femhead/hq/3-proposal.jpg

some last crits are very welcome. stillwell, I'm getting really tired of myself with this picture, you were right about the anatomy but I'm gonna leave it this way.

[eska]

My honest opinion

The forehead is monstrous - don't forget, allthouse it is a kind of strange being - it doesn't look like a woman.

The nose - like by Rumpelstilschen - looooong - this is killing the softness of the face.

The lower jaw - small in regard to the mouth nose and eyes, almost underdeveloped.

The eyes - flat

The overall shape - hard, I don't feel much anatomy behind this.
I don't feel or see muscles, theire arrangement, fat, skin bending accordingly to the meat, nothing wat will indicate me - I am alive.

In short, the head looks like more of a man, than of a woman.
This is just to help you to improve yourself in the future.
Best luck

[doms]

Jeez, how many replies did you get?

Personally I think that 3D is a really bad way of making alterations, its all about planning (atleast 50% of your time). I always model in plastiscene/ clay first then use that to draw up the side and front projections (on graph paper) which i then put onto image planes. How many builders do you see build houses without a definite set of plans? (yea, i'm an architect originally)

If you want to go straight into it you should use reference of some kind e.g scanned faces on image planes. A better way to do it may be to get a 3D model of a skull (Poser if your stuck) and adjust the bone structure (e.g a cave man or a fairy) and model over that as 3D reference.

To animate you must understand the thought processes going on in your characters head. To model you need to understand what is going on underneath the skin.

The face is coming on well (but are you really sure you time wouldn't have been better spent at a life drawing or sculpting class? Hey i know its easy to say but models really are judged as sculpture these days, its just assumed that you are fluent in the softwear)

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