3D comic strip - Spaztic Plastic

[MoD_Legion]

What exactly are u looking to get critique's on? Modelling, texturing, compositing, lightning? the humour?

Give us something to work with here.

[Rhid1en]

For a prerendered comicstrip, why are they low poly? Doesn't mean you need to make realistic characters, they can still be very stylized, without the chunky features of low poly modeling.

[Glasko]

I really want to improve the modeling aspect of the strip. The biggest problem is that the characters arn't rigged, and I don't know where to start.

[Rhid1en]

use the models you have, go thru the help tutorials on bones and then you can go back and work further on updating your models once you have a good understanding of the concept or rigging. Good luck, if you have any question while figuring this out, this is the forum to post some screen shots and ask as you get stuck...

[nullUser]

the colours on the main character don't work for me.

i reccon the characters don't stand out from the background and when they do it is because they clash badly.

sorry for the sledging, it could look quite cool, but you need to maybee print out the wireframes and go to work on them with crayons and it may do some good.

[nullUser]

...with "go to work on them with crayons" i just meant that you need to plan your colour schemes a bit better; work out what works and what doesn't, then texture your characters.

[Glasko]

Really before the next chapter I really want to improve on lighting and contrast, is that really what you mean?

[nullUser]

no doubt these areas could use some work, but in my mind its the colours that need addressing the most.

perhaps its just the backgrounds that need re-doing. i don't really know where to start on advice, but the thing that grabbed me straight away is that the same 2 colours are used on the bg and characters/props and its not working. perhaps look at some colour schemes ppl use in comic books or paintings with styles that you like and see how they have used colours.

...looking at your website i can see that you have a theme going and already have a colour scheme that you use, but it may be an idea to let your daily cartoon be less restricted by your website colour scheme.

[TheTick]

the images are quite small and the characters seem to be lost in the shuffle. also more dynamic poses.

[Glasko]

http://www.spazticplastic.com/052.jpg

Alright! This is my newest comic, and first off I tried real hard on the lighting and contrast. I feel like in some of the earlier comics he almost loses his "plastic" feel, and as some of you have stated, blends too much with the background.

the images are quite small and the characters seem to be lost in the shuffle. also more dynamic poses.

Well I wanted to keep the comic so that a person in 800x600 wouldn't have to scroll. 30% of the people out there still have that resolution, so I try and work with that. I really don't think the slides are too small in a standard 1024x768.

sorry for the sledging, it could look quite cool, but you need to maybee print out the wireframes and go to work on them with crayons and it may do some good.

Ok, so basically you're referring to the color balance in the comic. Hrm, I didn't think that was really a problem. Any specific examples from the comic you can give me?

[Glasko]

Hey guys, I need some guidance. At whatever cost necessary, I want these characters to look good. With muscles and textures, hundreds of facial movements and possible poses… action shots and fighting scenes, even animated shorts. I ask anybody here who can help me, where do I get started…. This is the base of the character, created in wings3D
http://www.spazticplastic.com/birthofspaz.jpg
I’m serious guys. Tear me to shreds, tell me what I need to learn, where to start. I’m willing to put in the hours, the work, EVERYTHING to be marked among the greats. That’s why I take something like this to a community I know can help me.

Now, right now I’m thinking I’ll purchase an affordable program like Animation Master, and I’ll also be getting Jeff Lew’s new tutorial DVD (http://www.jefflew.com/). Right now I’m using this file to create poses in Wings3D:
http://www.spazticplastic.com/model.jpg
This is why I used solid color textures. With a rigged character I could create a more complicated model, with muscles and more complex texturing. Action scenes.. everything. All of you guys have probably been where I am, just taking off, but with a burning desire to improve dramatically. Thanks for all the help you can give me.

Peace, Dan

[nullUser]

...could you take the comic you have posted and play with the colours of the background in photoshop (assuming you rendered the bg seperatly, if not you should definatly do this) to make them less aggressive so they compete less with the characters. you should also make sure the green is less similar to the green used on the characters.

could you do this so we can see what it looks like...

also could you render the characters with a bit more global light and also make sure the lighting of the characters is more consistant from frame to frame than it is now (then are too dark in some frames and light in others).

the 'sp' logo on the main char gets lost because it doesn't stand out, if you don't want it too then maybee remove it altogether because it complicates/clutters things.

hero character definatly needs work, maybe re-model his face and make his visor nice and smooth. make his neck wide at base and narrow at top.

does this character have the ability to have differnt facial expressions? he always uses his frankenstein mouth. maybee differnt poses for his mouth and also for the visor to convey some eye expressions by changing its shape etc.

make your speach bubbles look more professional. ie antialiased, and smooth and perhaps with differnt font. i know its over-used in webcomics, but msComic is good anyway.

that my 2cent. feel free to ignore.

[Glasko]

http://www.spazticplastic.com/053.jpg
How is this newer one for a lighter background?

[Kricket]

Originally posted by Glasko
Now, right now I’m thinking I’ll purchase an affordable program like Animation Master, and I’ll also be getting Jeff Lew’s new tutorial DVD (http://www.jefflew.com/).Remember: Jeffs DVDs are gonna cover animation, and even tho he's using AM the contents are supposed to be non-software-specific. So you should also pick up something like David Rogers AM Guide http://am-guide.com/. Its for AM 2002 but there are updates for 2003 and upcoming 2004 available on his site for those who have purchased it. Hash's manual sucks.. HARD.. the modeler is very different from Wings so you'll need the book.

Another thing.. Dont order until Hash states they're shipping "2004" cds. (probably late november/early december)!

If you order now and get a 2003 cd, on January 1st 2004 you wont get anymore updates. They tell people they get updates for a year.. but only by the calendar year, not from date of purchase.

It's great software, I love 2003 and 2004 is looking incredible (what lovely hair!)


I’m serious guys. Tear me to shreds, tell me what I need to learn, where to start. I’m willing to put in the hours, the work, EVERYTHING to be marked among the greats. That’s why I take something like this to a community I know can help me.
That's hard to do because it's a comic strip character.. it's very stylized. If you want him to look more super-heroish then get some anatomy books and see how the muscles are laid out, reproduce that. But right now at the very least put in some more points and smooth him out. Get rid of the sharp creases around his arms and legs where they're supposed to be smooth, the crotch too.

Build several heads with different facial expressions and mouth shapes. Have only seen a few of your strips but all I see are "Spaz with mouth open" and "Spaz with mouth closed"

[nullUser]

better than before (i think).

why is frame 5 blue? its a flashback right? i find blue says night-time and grayscale is good for a flashback. if the flashback was at night then the most important is still to emphisize it is a flashback so i'd go gray.

some other ppl should post some crits too, i am no cartoonist.

[Mr_Zworp]

I think it looks already better than before, the characters stand out more from the backgrounds. I also agree with nullUser that the speach bubbles could do with some work, with AA and a different font it would already look a lot better.

As for the flashback image, in stead of changing the colour (I do agree that gray would probably work better in that respect), maybe change the look of the frame? Perhaps some "wavy" lines in stead of the usual straight lines to indicate this is a flashback?

Finally, I would work a bit more on the camera position. This is a bit of a personal preference, but I feel the flow of the images isn't really logical (if that makes any sense). It seems a bit chaotic.

I hope that was of any use.

[Glasko]

http://www.spazticplastic.com/forcgtalkfix.jpg
There, I added some haze and a level of spikey halo to the edges of the flashback slide.

How do you think the camera angles need work? I watch a ton of movies and read up on it, sometimes I do, however, try for something different and it ends up confusing. Let me know if that's the case so I can correct it in future comics.

[Mr_Zworp]

Looking better already. Maybe the effect would work even better if it was a bit stronger?

It's not that it's unreadable or confusing really. The story is easy enough to follow. It's just that I think the sequence of camera angles is a bit chaotic. To me it looks a bit as if the camera jumps back and forth at random. Mind you, I've only looked closely at this comic, I just skimmed the rest of the archive, so it could just be this comic and like I said it's probably also a bit of personal preference. And also my English sucks, so I'm pretty sure I'm not conveying exactly what I mean :D

Since you always use 6 images per comic which is more of a European way of making a comic, maybe checking out some of the European classics is an idea to get some inspiration. Stuff like TinTin, Asterix...

[Glasko]

Really, thanks for all your comments guys. If you're reading and you have any other helpful suggestions, just through em' on here and I'll take em' to heart. Thanks again- Dan

[Glasko]

http://www.spazticplastic.com/056.jpg

In this last one, I really tried to work on all the aspects. (Especially, camera angle... which I think makes sense in his one). I'm wondering if the lighting is too strong in the first slide where Spaztic is... he's reflecting a lot of light, and there really isn't that light in the scene. Either way, he stands out in contrast to the background better than the rest of the comics.

[Akildee]

Glasko,

You have a lot of work to do. If you want this comic to look ver professional and clean. You have to take all of the proper steps to do so. I'm sorry that I don'tuse the software your using so I can't help you with software specific stuff. However, this is what I would do if i were you and you reall wanted this to be a success.

Clean up your models and make them optimized for smoothing. someone mentioned that your models have a low poly look. Take the time and model them correctly. Look at some of the wire frames in the wip gaming forum to see how their wire look compared to yours you'll learn a lot from just that.

Unwrap all of your models so that you can paint your textures in photoshop and apply them to your models. Look in your manual in reference to this. Every object should have a custom painted texture or a kick ass procedural.

Carefully light your scene. Think about how your key light and bounce lights should work together to get you the dramatic effect that you're looking for. For example, in every frame of the comic your light source which is indicated by your sky is not the light source that is aparent on your objects. Which tells me that you have a sky map but you didn't place your lights to correspond with the map. Also use a more diffused lighting. Maybe with a quadratic decay. That will look the most natural. You have to separate your background from your foreground. Try making your background more muted, and darker, and your characters more saturated and brighter. How extreme you make the difference is up to your artistic eye. It's not only a color difference that is used to make your characters pop.

Then rig your characters. Make sure there is a bone for the bottom jaw as well as several blend shapes for the head so that you can get the personality that you're going for. Then when you do your poses, make sure that you have a nice line of action in every pose. Ask some animators on some good books about lines of action and poses. I'm a modeler so I can't think of any authors on hand right now, sorry.

Then after you do all of this prep work and make everything look pretty, then you can pose and do your comic! Good luck.

akil

[Glasko]

I'm taking all the steps I can with the programs I can afford, (which mostly includes free programs :D). I've recently started with anim8or which I've found will be good to skin and pose my characters from now on. Also, I will be getting Maya for a good, student cost as soon as I can. I've been teaching myself Maya with the Personal Learning Edition for about three months now, I just wish I could export and take advantage of what I've been learning.

Thank's for your well thought out, constructive reply. I really appriciate it. Soon you'll see this work again, and see that everything you mentioned has been improved dramatically. Peace, Dan

[projectcoil]

Very funny strips. Your main character Spaztic Plastic reminds me of Gumby. Was it influenced in anyway?

[VirtualSite]

OK, what follows may seem a bit ruthless, but you <i>did</i> ask... okay?

Overall (and I've gone through almost the entire collection now), they're very... <i>nice</i>. Nicely designed characters, nicely designed backgrounds, nicely written dialogue. But that's the problem: it's just <i>nice</i>. It doesn't have the real spark that can give it the leap from just <i>nice</i> to pretty darn cool.

Let's start with your basic framework. You use a 3x2 grid, period. Maybe that kind of restricted format was a self-imposed boundary, but I suspect not. Open the thing up a little -- instead of six, religiously-tight images, work within the space you're alloting for the cartoon overall and find some new layouts that will emphasize your plot points -- for example, in the last one you posted, it took me a few moments to figure out that the little grey guy was on a skateboard on the ground; the switch in camera POV wasn't fluid, just a sudden leap. As an alternative, panels one and two could have been consolidated into a single piece that would have set off the motion of the strip; panels five and six could have been as well -- this leads to a layout where you have a large panel in the UL corner, a second large panel in the LR corner, and two smaller ones connecting them, which would give the strip <i>overall</i> a real dynamic and a sense of energy. This kind of approach would also allow you to have your camera angles flow from one panel to the next, as though the camera were swinging <i>around</i> your characters from front to back.

Insofar as execution, there are places where (like in the mallet strip) things get so overdetailed that it all becomes muddy and difficult to read. Walking the detail tightrope is a difficult one, I know, because you want to make sure the environment is complete enough that it doesn't look spare or underdressed. But when it becomes <i>too</i> detailed (like the panel when he's seeing the machine for the first time), we have to stop and figure out what's going on. A little simplification and a whole lot of exaggeration would be your two best friends here.

The character colour doesn't bother me that much -- I thought almost immediately of Gumby, which may have been your intent. But it's a difficult colour to work with when you're designing the palatte for the strip overall because it's such a subtlely blended shade that almost anything next to it is gonna clash somehow. I'm not saying to change the hue, just reconsider the particular shade you're using.

There's an excellent book on comic strip creation by Scott I-Cant-Remember-His-Last-Name, guy who wrote and drew ZOT! Any good comic store should carry it or know how to order it. Get it. You'll find it incredibly useful.

[Glasko]

Very funny strips. Your main character Spaztic Plastic reminds me of Gumby. Was it influenced in anyway?

Actually it wasn’t influenced by Gumby, but he certainly has a “Gumby” feel since you mention it. Spaztic was kind of a random creation ;).

OK, what follows may seem a bit ruthless, but you <i>did</i> ask... okay?

Nah, that’s what I love about CGTalk. When I post on other forums all I get are positive comments, here I get criticism that attacks every aspect of the composition.

Overall (and I've gone through almost the entire collection now), they're very... <i>nice</i>. Nicely designed characters, nicely designed backgrounds, nicely written dialogue. But that's the problem: it's just <i>nice</i>. It doesn't have the real spark that can give it the leap from just <i>nice</i> to pretty darn cool.

I am glad you enjoyed them, because that means you see potential in my hard work. Otherwise you wouldn’t have posted, so I appreciate it a lot. Dialogue is really personal preference… I have a pretty odd, melodramatic humor.

Let's start with your basic framework. You use a 3x2 grid, period. Maybe that kind of restricted format was a self-imposed boundary, but I suspect not. Open the thing up a little -- instead of six, religiously-tight images, work within the space you're alloting for the cartoon overall and find some new layouts that will emphasize your plot points –

Yes, I’ve got this comment a few times. And it was a self-imposed boundary. However, bear in mind when I first started the comic it wasn’t going to be story-based nearly to the extent that it is now. I’ve been exploring the option of different comic layouts for future chapters of Spaztic Plastic (The current chapter drawing to a close here in the next month or two)

for example, in the last one you posted, it took me a few moments to figure out that the little grey guy was on a skateboard on the ground; the switch in camera POV wasn't fluid, just a sudden leap. As an alternative, panels one and two could have been consolidated into a single piece that would have set off the motion of the strip; panels five and six could have been as well -- this leads to a layout where you have a large panel in the UL corner, a second large panel in the LR corner, and two smaller ones connecting them, which would give the strip <i>overall</i> a real dynamic and a sense of energy. This kind of approach would also allow you to have your camera angles flow from one panel to the next, as though the camera were swinging <i>around</i> your characters from front to back.

…I really like that idea O_O. I explored this kind of thing in some of the early comics, where I broke slides up and moved things around… not sure why I haven’t taken advantage of that lately. I’d like to play around with keeping the page 748x380, but trying new things with the slide composition in chapter 2.

Insofar as execution, there are places where (like in the mallet strip) things get so overdetailed that it all becomes muddy and difficult to read. Walking the detail tightrope is a difficult one, I know, because you want to make sure the environment is complete enough that it doesn't look spare or underdressed. But when it becomes <i>too</i> detailed (like the panel when he's seeing the machine for the first time), we have to stop and figure out what's going on. A little simplification and a whole lot of exaggeration would be your two best friends here.

Hmm, you think the machine is too detailed? Or does it just not stand out against the background? I really tried to avoid exactly what you just said, even going back and changing some background tones for contrast. Any advice on how I could have simplified things?

The character colour doesn't bother me that much -- I thought almost immediately of Gumby, which may have been your intent. But it's a difficult colour to work with when you're designing the palatte for the strip overall because it's such a subtlely blended shade that almost anything next to it is gonna clash somehow. I'm not saying to change the hue, just reconsider the particular shade you're using.

Color will stay, but the character will have some muscle tones and an actual texture map. (I’ve been working hard to rig Spaztic lately, for dynamic posing etc). It’s hard for him to NOT clash against natural, grassy backgrounds. I’m still working on that… Spaztic could be darker, and it wouldn’t be anything considerably different from what he is now. Is that what you’re suggesting?

There's an excellent book on comic strip creation by Scott I-Cant-Remember-His-Last-Name, guy who wrote and drew ZOT! Any good comic store should carry it or know how to order it. Get it. You'll find it incredibly useful.

And that’s the thing, I didn’t go into the comic strip EVER having done a comic strip before J. I was just putting dialogue to 3D images. I hope you can see the drive, (That’s probably why you posted), and I really appreciate it. These comments are awesome.

I think the comic has been improving, I just stand to make it the best that it can possible be. Thanks again, feel free to expand on anything! --- peace, Dan

[Glasko]

http://spazticplastic.com/061.jpg

Alright, this one I really tried to change up the actual composition a bit. Is it too chaotic? Or can you grip, basically, what's going on here. I also paid a close concentration to lighting, and tried my best not to conflict with colors (although sometimes, with Spaztic's shade of green that's inevitable. Any suggestions with that?) What do you guys think?

[mayhemation]

these comic strips are pretty cool.
i agree he is almost like a psycho gumby character.

[Glasko]

haha, I've gotten the gumby comment a few times. More recently I've been working on a sword fight (which has been difficult seeing as how he isn't yet rigged). Here's a more recent comic to see what I'm working on here;
http://spazticplastic.com/064.jpg
I had to work hard on getting these poses right. Any comments on how to improve the sword fighting aspect?

[Chris Neuhahn]

Your poses need a lot of work.

Look up the Preston Blair book, its online somewhere, and read all you can about posing and line of action. It needs to be visually explained. Every pose needs to have some impact. Even standing idle we are not straight up and down.

The lighting and textures need work as well. But I feel the story will be told better with the action and attitude of the characters.

[Glasko]

Your poses need a lot of work.

Look up the Preston Blair book, its online somewhere, and read all you can about posing and line of action. It needs to be visually explained. Every pose needs to have some impact. Even standing idle we are not straight up and down.

The lighting and textures need work as well. But I feel the story will be told better with the action and attitude of the characters

Great source, thanks!

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