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RobertoOrtiz
09-09-2010, 02:49 PM
CgTalk: FXWars! Dambusters!
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/robertoortiz1/DBoriginalposter.jpg
From wikipedia:

Operation Chastise was the official name for attacks carried out by Royal Air Force (http:///wiki/Royal_Air_Force)No. 617 Squadron (http:///wiki/No._617_Squadron_RAF) - subsequently known as the Dambusters - on German dams (http:///wiki/Dam) on 16–17 May 1943, using a specially developed "bouncing bomb (http:///wiki/Bouncing_bomb)" invented and developed by Barnes Wallis (http:///wiki/Barnes_Wallis). The Möhne (http:///wiki/M%C3%B6hne_Reservoir) and Eder (http:///wiki/Edersee) dams were breached, causing catastrophic flooding of the Ruhr (http:///wiki/Ruhr_%28river%29) valley and the villages of the Eder valley (http:///wiki/Edertal), ...

A 1955 film, The Dam Busters (http:///wiki/The_Dam_Busters_%28film%29) was made about the raids and was very popular. Its depiction of the raid, along with a similar sequence in the film 633 Squadron (http:///wiki/633_Squadron), provided the inspiration for the Death Star (http:///wiki/Death_Star) trench run in Star Wars (http:///wiki/Star_Wars): A New Hope (http:///wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_IV:_A_New_Hope).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise)





THE CHALLENGE:

Render a realistic, forensic or fantasy type animation of this amazing true life raid.
Think bouncing ball from bomber hitting a Dam and going Booom...and you get the idea.

NOTE:
The moderator of this challenge acknowledges the high number of civilian deaths caused by bombing mission during WWII of civilian centers of population of both axis and allies powers.

The mission was picked for this challenge was selected because its was not directed at any center of population, just dams. But it should be noted that on this raid, 1,294 people were killed, 749 of them Ukrainian POWs from a camp just below the Eder Dam.

The topic of the challenge was picked by the moderator of the forum Roberto Ortiz, and Ballistic media, or the CGSociety is in no way responsible.


It is not our intention to make a political statement with this challenge.




HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF FILMED VERSIONS OF THIS RAID:









ww.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRIsjJFRNo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRIsjJFRNo)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ARxDGtoPU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEUXr6FMtWk&NR=1)
The entry with the best VISUAL EFFECTS will be selected by an open vote. (You may do the entry anyway way you want , an FX piece with live action, a synthetic cg entry or a hybrid. The winner will get bragging rights and a small banner designed by me.

Keep in mind that the entry can be set in ANY time period, and the style of the project can be either in a realistic or campy.


DATELINE:
October 31 , 2010
(After that You have ONE MONTH and TWO WEEKSto do the challenge.)
The voting plug will be posted on November 5th




TYPES OF ENTRY:
You may do one of these types of entries:
-TRIBUTE
Think of the FX sequences from films Dambusters! or the 633 Squadron.
-FREEFORM ENTRY
The core requirement for this type of entry is to have fun.
-FORENSIC ANIMATION
This would be the kind of entry that one would see for a scientific explanation of a bomb raid..Think Discovery Channel special But keep in mind the key thing that I expect to see in all entries is GOOD VISUAL EFFECTS..

CHALLENGE SPECIFIC RULES:

No work taken DIRECTLY from an existing tutorial. You may use an existing tutorial only for reference.
You may use a pre existing model, as long as you give credit to the creator. If you cant model, use simple shapes, since we are interested in the simulation. (But teams are encouraged, and if you are a modeler, you can make your model available)
You may provide a heavily edited animation with all the trimmings (hell add live action if you want), as long a you provide another PLAIN animation of a side view of the working SIMULATION of multiple explosions in the planet surface.
Voting:

We will select by an open vote the:



BEST VISUAL EFFECTS
The winner will get bragging rights and a small banner
designed by me.
_______________________________________

GENERAL RULES:

The animation and visualizations must have been done AFTER the topic has been announced.
You may use stock previously shot footage for background plates and VFX elements.
IF you use footage for a VFX sequence it must be raw NOT contain any Visual Effects.
WIP are encouraged if they are posted in ANOTHER thread. Please provide a link to them on this thread.
WIP thread should be posted on the FXWARS Forum forum and should follow
the following naming convention: FXWars! Dambusters ENTRY TYPE (TRIBUTE, FREEFORM, FORENSIC), (Note: Group entries are allowed)
It is Recommended that Final movies should be rendered at 320 x 240 or 640 x 480 in QuickTime* format (Sorenson Compression), but other resolutions and formats are allowed. * (The animation format is open for discussion.)
The animation should follow the following naming convention:
MYNAME_FXWARS(RESOLUTION).mov. And please add your name at the beginning and end of the animation, and if you can, also add a small non disruptive watermark during the animation.
If for some reason, you can't host movies, sequential images (Thumbnails size 160 x 120 ) are accepted.
You are STRONGLY encouraged to add your entry to You Tube. If interested, please contact the Roberto Ortiz.
Please add a brief text description about your piece.
The artist also has to post total length of time it took and program used.
Collaborative pieces are accepted and encouraged, but Teams entries must have a identifying banner and a name. Shot lists should be included with the entry.
Individuals participating in a team CAN have their own individual entries.
Post on this thread your link to your WIP thread and your FINAL piece.
You can add multiple entries, as long as they have different WIP threads.
Freelancers CAN participate in more than ONE entry
All Teams members & Freelancers will get screen credit for in the title cards for participation
Only participants who follow the rules and submit a final entry will be elegible for the voting process.
The moderators reserve the right to taken down any thread.
DIGITAL ASSETS:
Here are the footage models and that are available for this challenge.
You may use your own models for the challenge,
but I am making some of my model available for those who wish to use them


http://sketchup.google.com/3dwareho...a83cc0414c0721b (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwareho...a83cc0414c0721b)
A collada version of this model is avaialbe upon request




REFERENCE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRIsjJFRNo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRIsjJFRNo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD9sd8s9V14&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD9sd8s9V14&feature=related)
The Bouncing Bomb (http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/moorcraft/The%20Bouncing%20Bomb.htm)
YouTube - bouncing bomb (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOGRTlrYCIE)
Dambusters.org.uk (http://www.dambusters.org.uk/)
-R

ragupasta
09-10-2010, 10:55 AM
Just in case any of you don't know. The bouncing bomb was a cylindrical type device that was spun backwards before dropped.
The spin was to slow the bomb down as it hit the surface of the water.

The dambusters film depicts the bouncing bomb as a sphere. This is not true. When the film was made, them bomb was still on the MOD's official secrets list. Hence the fabled shape shown in film.

jakerupert
09-11-2010, 07:26 AM
A task like this could be kind of problematic for the victims and
their relatives even nowadays.
Maybe they haven`t all been that evil Nazis from the movies but
also civilian children and old and helpless people as well.
It´s not a just comparison, I know, but would you do an FX about 911?

I am from Hamburg, that has suffered great destruction from
Operation "Gomorah" in second worldwar.
That Bee Gee Robin Gibb supports the building of a monument for
the bomberpilots was controversly discussed here in the
newspapers some days ago.

Don`t want to make a great thing ot of it here, but just give a hint,
that`s not all about nice explosions, but also about real people that
get hurt.
So maybe a little sidenote would be apropriate.

JurajMolcak
09-11-2010, 09:11 AM
@RobertoOrtiz - seriously, I am uncomfortable with this topic and how it is displayed. Especially when you are using words such as "have fun" and "good visuals".

Wolf S
09-11-2010, 12:25 PM
There was the question, nobody cared. Maybe it is the presentation.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=139&t=902588
If you do not like the dam, go for a RedCow Aircraft Bowling Challenge... huge bowlingpins that break up and leak water out. It's about bouncing something over a watersurface with splashes (bomb, barrel, bowlingball) and breaking something that holds water... or give it a (technical but effectful) documentation-like aproach.

Are there discussions everytime about nuke- and flamethrower-effects or other amazing-looking but terrible things? As JurajMolcak said, it might be displayed a little different, but the effect looks challenging.

RobertoOrtiz
09-11-2010, 02:55 PM
First guys, you got to understand that the reason I picked this particular raid is the VERY low number
of civilian casualties during the war.


I was in DC during 9-11 so I understand the impact this sort of event has on a population.
That is why I have not done a challenge about a tidal wave out of repect of the victum of the pacific tsumami.

That is why I have not made any modern combat challenges based out of respect of those who are now fighting wars.
That is why I have never done a challenge about a bombing raid over a city.

RobertoOrtiz
09-11-2010, 03:08 PM
@RobertoOrtiz - seriously, I am uncomfortable with this topic and how it is displayed. Especially when you are using words such as "have fun" and "good visuals".

I am sorry this is the case. Again the raid that I picked was no accident.

Added the following disclaimer to the challenge


NOTE:
The moderator of this challenge acknowledges the high number of civilian deaths caused by bombing mission during WWII of civilian centers of population of both axis and allies powers.

The mission was picked for this challenge was selected because its was not directed at any center of population, just dams.

The topic of the challenge was picked by the moderator of the forum Roberto Ortiz, and Ballistic media, or the CGSociety is in no way responsible.

It is not our intention to make a political statement with this challenge.

JurajMolcak
09-11-2010, 03:24 PM
hey,
I agree with Wolf, the creation of this kind of VFX is challenging. Water splashing all around, shattering and explosions etc... cool for the challenge for sure! Just when you wrap it to WW operation with 1,294 civilians killed (according to wiki) and bouncing bomb invention ...you know. I believe we can manage something less edgy to create spectacular visuals. Peace :)

RobertoOrtiz
09-11-2010, 03:29 PM
hey,
I agree with Wolf, the creation of this kind of VFX is challenging. Water splashing all around, shattering and explosions etc... cool for the challenge for sure! Just when you wrap it to WW operation with 1,294 civilians killed (according to wiki) and bouncing bomb invention ...you know. I believe we can manage something less edgy to create spectacular visuals. Peace :)

Out of respect of the death, I will post hte number of civilian deaths of the raid.

The note says:

The mission was picked for this challenge was selected because its was not directed at any center of population, just dams. But it should be noted that on this raid, 1,294 people were killed, 749 of them Ukrainian POWs from a camp just below the Eder Dam.

JurajMolcak
09-11-2010, 04:27 PM
Out of respect of the death, I will post hte number of civilian deaths of the raid.

Sorry Roberto, I wasn't clear and didn't finish my thoughts. I meant to say it might be a bit sensitive when you wrap VFX Challenge to WW operation with 1,294 civilians killed and bouncing bomb invention. I thought it could be better to rethink the topic to something new with the same goal - dam destruction effect. Without all that bad/sad things like WW and bombs.
After all, I am not a VFX challenger and it was just my instant reaction to the topic.

PLASTICMONSTER
09-11-2010, 09:16 PM
Basically any depiction of a tank,a weapon, gun, arrow can be traced back to the point of it's existence which is to damage, destroy and cause death. So CG pictures showing real battles that took place in medievil times or earlier also had civilian casualties and worse like slaying of villages. So even Saving Private Ryan shouldn't have been made because you see American and German soldiers getting killed in action. I think the bombing of a dam isn't really the point but the pilots who dared such a dangerous mission and the technological "advancement" of the bouncing bomb....unfortunately yes it destroyed the dam causing civilian casualties....but look at our world today and how many die in wars. Its an everyday thing unfortunately. I think if the challenge offends some people then they shouldn't do it. I think it is a very challenging VFX challenge and technically diverse too since theres water and explosion which needs to be done in CG. If there would be a challenge to make an image of the 56' Revolution of Budapest where I live....I would do it regardless of how many Hungarian died that day. Because the photographers also capture a moment in time...us 3d artist re-create a moment like that using advanced tools and our imagination....almost the same. So cheers and hope i made some sense. (BTW the Germans bombed Budapest in WWII and well that wasnt too good either.)

BookMansBlues
09-11-2010, 09:43 PM
Sorry Roberto, I wasn't clear and didn't finish my thoughts. I meant to say it might be a bit sensitive when you wrap VFX Challenge to WW operation with 1,294 civilians killed and bouncing bomb invention. I thought it could be better to rethink the topic to something new with the same goal - dam destruction effect. Without all that bad/sad things like WW and bombs.
After all, I am not a VFX challenger and it was just my instant reaction to the topic.

it's a piece of history, and not a matter of disrespect, and it did happen back in the 40's so the people is directly affected are most likely not part of this forum. Would you think that Movies that depicted pearl Harbor, Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, Memphis Bell and other movies that depict World War Events not be made since the MIGHT offend someone? seems kind of extreme to me. I love WWII history, and I wish I had time to take part of this challenge. I think it's a great topic, and think that historical events are great subject matters because they make people go look up these events and become more aware of what happened during their research. IMHO history especially the darker moments in human history should be talked about, and discussed more. Hiding behind them for fear of upsetting people is not really conducive to learning from these events, and trying to make sure that they don't have to happen again.

jakerupert
09-12-2010, 08:34 AM
In my opinion a challenge like this is quite o.k., when you also name the collateral damage,
that is the civilian casualties in respect for the victims.
My intention of my first post just was to also mention the sad aspects of such "happenings" and to not only get the action and "fun" aspects penetrated, like in many movies and computergames of today .
( On a sidenote I also would think that a monument for the bomberpilots is o.k. for
what they suffered, if you also mention (maybe on a plate) all the casualties, they have
caused. The german word for monument is Denkmal which means translated in words:
"Think once", which is a quite good description for what it`s meant for, I think. )

So maybe it`s time now, not to hang this thing too high and start the FXwar.

JurajMolcak
09-12-2010, 10:10 AM
@ PLASTICMONSTER, BookMansBlues - you guys are really out of the line of what I was talking about. You took it to the extreme I never depicted. I have plenty of WW2 material around me - movies, books, plastic models - I have no problems with them, nor I was hiding behind them for fear or something. VFX challenges are primarily focused to "wow" people, not really to tell the complex story with emotions etc. That was my problem, the way how it took only the "cool visual aspect" of this piece of history. Roberto already made some important changes to the way this topic is presented so there is now acceptable backround for VFX oriented animations. Calm down and let the FXwar begin.

PLASTICMONSTER
09-12-2010, 12:00 PM
@ JurajMolcak: We calmed down...I swear. :P Let the FX wars begin.

evolucian
09-13-2010, 03:33 PM
youd figure after all the call of duty gaming and so many WW2 movies we've lost count of, something this trivial would be the least of things to stir any sort of emotions especially since its not of recent events (think EA including the taliban as a playable faction in their new game).

Fake explosions = fun, real explosions = bad. The world would be a better place if the only weapons we have were wacoms. :arteest:

Im looking forward to seeing some of these in progress, it will be a massive undertaking to do this properly like someone said with water splashing, concrete flying off and such. Good lck to everyone entering. :)

mustan9
09-13-2010, 06:42 PM
EDIT: I think that post was a little harsh :)

pierechod
09-13-2010, 11:03 PM
bit of research - happened to see Dambusters Declassified on BBC last night, check it out!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00trb2g/Dambusters_Declassified/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00trb2g/Dambusters_Declassified/)

guardonduty
09-15-2010, 11:35 PM
IF you like designing WW2 planes and Bombers your might want to watch this series. LINK (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=207_1284520999)

gsman
09-18-2010, 06:46 PM
Everyone needs to get over the whole discussion about the raid and just do the work!
Stop trying to make everything political!

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