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danb
08-19-2010, 05:04 PM
I'm looking to purchase either NukeX or Digital Fusion 6.1. I've tested both and fusion is much faster for some reason. I can animate filters in half of realtime speed in fusion.

I suspect its my hardware causing nuke to be not as fast as fusion. ??

I have win7 x64
ATI radeon x1950
i7 2.13ghz.
12GB 1600mhz ddr3 ram

Does nuke run faster with a cuda graphics card?

I think the rest of the computer, besides my card, is a pretty decent setup.

earlyworm
08-20-2010, 10:43 AM
From my (limited) understanding - because Nuke uses scanlines rather than tiles - it's very difficult to get any real GPU boost out of Nuke. This is something The Foundry are aware of.

That said I find Nuke runs pretty fast provided I work with the files locally (opposed to off a network) and set bounding boxes to be as efficient as possible gets Nuke running fast and responsive most of the time.

http://www.nukepedia.com/written-tutorials/10-tips-to-optimising-nuke-and-creating-efficient-workflows/

danb
08-20-2010, 02:42 PM
I was using the 6.07v and downloaded the 6.1v update and now nuke is even slower. Taking 30-60 seconds to update a frame when the play button is pressed.

Any idea why?

cgbeige
08-20-2010, 03:08 PM
it probably cached what you had before. Nuke doesn't use the GPU, except for navigating the 3D scenes. And it doesn't use CUDA, unless you have a filter like Sapphire that uses it.

danb
08-20-2010, 04:27 PM
Ok thanks. I emptied the cache but its still slow.

Though now that i know it doesn't use the gpu, but only the cpu, my guess would be that the extreme slow down is being caused by the 3d rendering i'm doing at the same time in cinema 4d. :rolleyes: :p

Though it wasn't slow when rendering in both programs at teh same time with 6.07v. It seems to be only the viewport that is slow because i can render to flipbook very fast. I think i'll try to start over and reinstall.

I can see the scan lines in nuke working away at the playback. This wasn't there in the earlier version. Not a problem just something i noticed.

alkali22
08-20-2010, 04:35 PM
Nuke doesn't use GPU acceleration much (for now...), so a new card isn't really going to help you. My first instincts regarding your slow render times would be to look for:
1) Comp inefficiencies (missing bboxes, operating on multiple unnecessary channels, etc.)
2) Use of tile- instead of scanline-based EXR files. This is very important to keep Nuke's architecture loaded with data to process at all times.
3) Slow read/write disks that aren't able to feed Nuke enough data to keep up with the engine.

In terms of playback, keep in mind that the two programs use very different systems. Fusion uses RAM caching, while Nuke uses a disk cache system (since complex comps often need all the RAM you can muster), so the raw playback rate is going to be IO-limited once again.

Finally, the 3D scanline renderer also isn't particularly fast compared to what I understand Fusion's 3D system does these days (haven't used it since 5.3), so if you have any complex 3D stuff in there (multisample motion blur, etc.), that could be causing a hit as well.

danb
08-20-2010, 05:01 PM
Thank you for the list. I will check into the causes. I will try other configurations based on your list.

Although i can say 1 and 3 seem to be ok. 1 because so far i only have a read node and viewer node. I haven't even started compositing with filters or anything else. Though in 6.07 everything was fine (see my last post). 3 because my drives have plenty of space and are the fastest, and very large, sata's that one can get without getting a ssd hard drive.

Reading from all the responses i see DF looks to be faster, but as mentioned Nuke doesn't use gpu YET. :) DF doesn't have 3d tracking which is very important to us, Nuke does and if nuke eventually goes to gpu support, or a combination of cpu/gpu then nuke would be our choice.

Always so difficult to predict where hardware and software will end up.

danb
08-20-2010, 07:11 PM
I uninstalled and reinstalled everything and now Nuke 6.1 works like 6.07, much faster. :)

alkali22
08-20-2010, 07:28 PM
Strange indeed...

From my past use of both programs (currently all Nuke), I've found that when comps start getting complex, Nuke's speed tends to scale proportionally with complexity (i.e. as long as you're using consistent practices like bboxes and channel control, your rendering speed will be very predictable). Its multithreading, both for applicable nodes and for branched comp trees, is much more efficient and aggressive as well.

Fusion, on the other hand, tended to get hung up much more easily once the comps started getting complex, and definitely isn't as efficient with its memory usage, due to its playback buffer system. It's tile-based (not sure how it delegates tiles as a subset of comp resolution), and if you have a frame time of 2 minutes, you're typically stuck until it finishes rendering the frame (the interface effectively locks). Conversely, Nuke's scanline rendering and different approach to multithreading mean the engine is never locked. Once again, however, I haven't used Fusion in quite some time.

Also, by default Fusion is doing everything 8-bit, so a more accurate speed comparison might be to work in a float project with bit-depth promotion on in your loader (since Nuke promotes and works entirely in floating point).

Finally, if you're curious where the Foundry are going with their GPU acceleration development, have a look at: http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=5776

beaker
08-21-2010, 07:53 AM
Nuke just uses gpu for the gamma/gain slider in the viewer if you turn on gpu acceleration in the viewer settings. It can also use it for some cc nodes. Mouse over the viewer and hit 's'.

danb
08-21-2010, 04:18 PM
Strange indeed...


Finally, if you're curious where the Foundry are going with their GPU acceleration development, have a look at: http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=5776

Thanks for the link. Why does kronos need realtime? Can that technology be applied to filters in the future?

Only other question is if i purchase nuke now will i get free updates all the way until, and past, the foundry creates the gpu open cl software?

Does nuke have a mandatory subscription cost? It doesn't look like it from the website but maybe i missed it?

beaker
08-21-2010, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the link. Why does kronos need realtime? Can that technology be applied to filters in the future? Motion estimation is slow. This will speed it up.

Only other question is if i purchase nuke now will i get free updates all the way until, and past, the foundry creates the gpu open cl software?

Does nuke have a mandatory subscription cost? It doesn't look like it from the website but maybe i missed it?First year subscription is required. After that it is up to you. You only get free updates if your under subscription.

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