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new2rigging
07-31-2010, 11:17 AM
can anyone here tell me how to setup an IK_FK SNAPPING without the use of Mel Scripts.
i don't want to use Mel Scripts as i am not very comfortable with it. So i want to know about some alternate ways to do an IK_FK SNAPPING.
please it would be very helpful if anyone tells me this.

thanks in advance..

TheRazorsEdge
07-31-2010, 11:38 AM
Are you talking about IK-FK Matching? If so, its a rather complicated issue for which MEL is ideally suited. Doing it manually is a huge pain and I would advise you to put your dislike of MEL behind you and start getting used to it. It's a huge asset to know MEL basics and its really not that difficult at all, especially if you use scripts prepared by others. ;)

To get to the heart of the issue, there are various methods to achieve IK-FK matching. I personally prefer the method promoted by Jason Schleifer using the xform command to query the world position of joints and control objects. For more details about it you can purchase his excellent "Animator Friendly Rigging" Tutorials. He also provides all scripts used during the training with the videos.

Cheers!

new2rigging
07-31-2010, 01:03 PM
thanks for the advice.
you know i have that DVD..
i have all the four parts.
but he uses script at every level. and i dont know anything about scripting and thats why i wanted something without the script.
fine. tell me something that even if i achieve the IK_FK matching then also how can i put that option in the respective CONTROLLER.
what i mean is that its just a script which i can use as a button in my custom shelf. but if in cases where i want to use it suppose if i want to move a hand by Ik and Fk both and i have Ik-Fk Switch and i know about the Ik-Fk Matching Script .. so how can i plug the Ik-Fk Matching Script(the Xform query) into the Ik-Fk Switch Option of the hand or the leg controller so that both of them(Ik-Fk Switch and Ik- Fk Match) works at the same time that is whenever i am in Ik and wants to go to Fk i can do that with the Matching and vice versa... how can i achieve that..

i hope i am clear to you..

tonytouch
08-01-2010, 07:01 AM
i think ,
this cannot ( or should not ) happen automatically . ( well it could , with the use of "scriptJob attributeChange" - or by use of a customPlugin - but it really makes no sense at all in my eyes )

animators need control , once you try to automate too much - they loose this kind of control - so it would be most important to be able to switch on and off these automatisations .

if you are already advanced with rigging - whenever an automatisation is needed , you also want to be able to switch it off - then there is always the need for some more nodes in the node-network and it gets a bit more complicated - for each function you add into your rig .

most animators really prefer simple rigs , and not want to use "fancy-rigs" with "all-super-functions" , when they are slow - or if there is something unneccessary like an automatic FK_IK_snapping , because someone might be too lazy , to push a single button and set some keys .

usually once an animator switches ( or blends ) from FK to IK - he/she will be knowing , what to do ( at least all the professional animators do ). and once it is snapped ( in animation ) animators really have a close look on this , because , they want to have the animation as smooth as possible ( even , when snapping from FK to IK during animation ) - in order to keep their ARCs and keeping the flow

mostly , animators , just animate their shots in one state , and dont blend a lot during one shot , so they mostly use FK or IK during the few seconds of a single shot of the film .

------------
it is NOT POSSIBLE without scripting .

-------
you need to learn at least the basic "xform" command , in order to query the position/rotation of the wrist and elbow, for FK->IK , and query rotations of upper and lower arm/leg joints , for IK-FK_switching .

not possible without scripting ...

TheRazorsEdge
08-01-2010, 09:53 AM
I also don't think what you want to achieve can be done without the help of more scripts and custom plugins, since you'll probably be running into cyclic errors left and right. As tonytouch mentioned, automation is a double edged sword, as it takes control away from the animator etc, so I usually advise against it.

Anyways, before diving more into the issue and speculate like crazy, my advice for you is to actually work through Jason's DVD and try his method. Unless you have done that, there is really no way for you to judge the effectiveness of his method and even begin to look for custom solutions.

What the heck do you have the DVD's for if you don't work through them? But more importantly why the heck are you using Maya, if you refuse to learn even the most basic MEL and using pre-built scripts, which make up the apps main strength and even massively enhance it?

Cheers!

new2rigging
08-01-2010, 04:30 PM
thanks TONYTOUCH and THERAZORSEDGE......
thanks for the valuable information...
it seems i have to start learning MEl.
although i have started learning it and i am facing some problems though but still i will go through the MAFR DVD's again and again and learn the basic MEl and start using the pre built scripts.

new2rigging
08-01-2010, 04:35 PM
but tell me one thing that only knowing the basic mel will it help in the long run or will it be a problem for me to get jobs???? or i have to have advance knowledge about MEL???

tonytouch
08-01-2010, 08:24 PM
if you really plan on becoming a Rigger , you really NEED to know about customizing maya and creating your own scripts .Aim of a characterTD / setupArtist / Rigger - is always to provide animators with great puppets , and these might be all different sort of skeletons ( creatures , quadrupeds , bipeds , birds , ... )

usually you dont want to setup the same stretchyIK on every bodypart of each new character , or create two reverse-foot setups each time you create a simple biped . If you have working scripts and you can create more and more character rigs for the animators , you will always develope new skills, implement new ideas and create more complex setups ( trouhbleshooting is also very important ) .

finally you are going to create many character-rigs , and you want them to be somehow unified in terms of naming-conventions and the hierarchy ... as it is very important, that a rig is well structured and everything is named well . ( e.g. "*_jnt" for joints or "*_nul" for null-groups , or "*_pma" for plusminusAverage_node" ) and once you script your bodyparts , you can make sure very easily , that all elements which belong to the leftArm of your character will be named proper and put into your hierarchy , in a way that makes sense .)

for most other parts of 3D ( modeling , texturing , lighting ,shading ) you dont really need scripting , but it is pretty important for rigging once it comes to professional productions .

new2rigging
08-01-2010, 08:33 PM
thanks a lot TONY.
i will look into scripting in more details.
thanks for helping.
:applause:

exhibitx
08-02-2010, 09:36 PM
yes there is a way that you can do ik/fk matching with just utility nodes and without the uses of any mel/python scripts. Through the use of the pairBlend node that switches between keyframes and constraint. With the use of a condition node to turn on and off the ikBlend attribute on the ikHandle as well as setting the nodestate of the constraint node.

new2rigging
08-03-2010, 02:25 PM
@ exhibitx
can you please be a little more specific and illustrate in details..

thanks...

Darksuit
08-03-2010, 04:47 PM
You may need to start with some basic theory and concepts first. Understand the different parts really well. Don't focus so much on the end result but the how. Understand the different parts. Don't rush to do something super complicated on a rig, it will lead to a lot of fustration and not finishing something.

DO start with the basics and doing them quick and effeciently and the same over and over.
DO open the script editor and understand what Maya is doing under the hood.
DO learn MEL and Python it will help you in the end.
DO Try and Experiement in small steps and then combine those later into something larger.
DO ask questions about techniques that you are trying, and theories you don't understand.
DO Read articles, for forums and books about different techniques.

I am only saying these things so that you DO stick around and learn and enjoy rigging and scripting, what I DON'T want is for it to become so fustrating that you get upset and never touch it again.

I say this also because I look at exhibit's response and not only do I understand what he is talking about but it also gives me other ideas on how I might solve the problem. Rigging for myself is about problem solving. It's about having a tool box of solutions, concepts and ideas to solve any problem that might come up.

When I started Illustrating I used to get really fustrated at all the professionals always saying study anatomy more. I didn't really understand what they were saying at the time. But I do now. This is my way of saying study anatomy more.

new2rigging
08-04-2010, 04:32 AM
@Darksuit
thanks.
i will surely start working the way u suggested.
i will really post my queries here to get valuable answers.

thanks. :applause:

tonytouch
08-06-2010, 09:57 AM
yes there is a way that you can do ik/fk matching with just utility nodes and without the uses of any mel/python scripts. Through the use of the pairBlend node that switches between keyframes and constraint. With the use of a condition node to turn on and off the ikBlend attribute on the ikHandle as well as setting the nodestate of the constraint node.

i am not sure , but maybe he means the approach which was described in the Masterclass by Sylvain Côté during the 2010 games-developemen-conference , which can be seen on www.the-area.com (http://www.the-area.com)
http://area.autodesk.com/gdc (you need to be registered and rigister for this specific masterclass as well , but it is free to look at)
direct link
http://area.autodesk.com/gdc/class1

and yes darksuit is right ... for rigging-beginners , this might be a bit advanced sometimes , or difficutl to understand - but if you like to have a look at it ...

DCWarner
08-25-2010, 07:07 AM
Tontouch and all,

So it seems that the free master class linked above isn't available for some unknown reason. Can any provide and alternative link for it?

kattkieru
08-25-2010, 05:41 PM
i am not sure , but maybe he means the approach which was described in the Masterclass by Sylvain Côté during the 2010 games-developemen-conference , which can be seen on www.the-area.com (http://www.the-area.com)
http://area.autodesk.com/gdc (you need to be registered and rigister for this specific masterclass as well , but it is free to look at)
direct link
http://area.autodesk.com/gdc/class1

and yes darksuit is right ... for rigging-beginners , this might be a bit advanced sometimes , or difficutl to understand - but if you like to have a look at it ...

That's actually what I was going to suggest. I haven't used it in production but the bi-directional rig setup with nodes marked as blocking *does* work for IK / FK snapping, as long as you know what you're doing with your pole vector. Unfortunately I don't have any examples I can share, but it's worth investigating.

Just, whatever you do, don't use the built-in Maya IK / FK stuff. It's never worked properly.

new2rigging
08-25-2010, 06:50 PM
@ kattkieru

thanks man.

i will surely search for that and look into it once i get it.

thanks for your valuable reply..

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