Character: Female - Gloria

[Clanger]

I think your close, just needs fine adjustments to really nail it.
The first thing that jumped out at me is the sharpness of the top of her nose, soften it off more.
Her eyes need more shape, and possibly too wide, push them back a bit as well as they're bulging it bit now.
I'd give rid of the sharp points in the corner of her mouth.

[Delapouite]

Yes the nose is probably the part of the face that strikes me most at first sight. I would rather made holes a little bit near the place noise and the part just above the mouth meet (sorry if I'm not clear enough.)

[Frank Dodd]

The biggest problem I see with this is in the shape of the eyes the eyelids look bulky bloated and misshaped. They are missing the pinched shape.

[markdc]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm off to work on your suggestions.

[gnarlycranium]

What is your overall opinion of the model?

When I first looked at it I thought 'whoa! wacky! with a little work it could be a really cool stylized character' ...and then I saw you were working for making a real person and thought 'oops!'


What can be done to improve the model?

The ears are too flat, they need to stick out from the head more (at like a 45 degree angle). The nose has this weird look like the whole thing has been pushed back into the head a little. The edges of the lower lip need to be softened at the outer corners, and the mouth itself needs to be a bit wider. The eyeballs could probably stand to be a little smaller, and deeper in the head, with a proper duct structure at the inner corner of the eye. The neck gets way too skinny where it meets the head-- the girl in your reference does indeed have a skinny neck, just not THAT skinny.


How are the proportions?

Since you've got photos to work from, the proportions seem quite decent overall-- the eyes are in the middle of the head, which is plenty wide (most people make heads too narrow), and so forth. The nose could probably stand to be a bit bigger, and the ears are too low.


Is the topology good?

You kinda have the right idea, but there's some spots where you're getting really confused. A few things to keep in mind-- quads. You want all of the polys in that head to be square if possible, with no triangles. The other thing-- edgeloops. You want the rows of edges to follow the contours of the face... kinda like if you drew a line along the upper edge of ripples in water. Keep in mind every spot where you place an edge or vertex represents a major CHANGE in the contour of the surface. You've got loops around the eyes, that's good, and you have one around the mouth-- but the next row out from the mouth suddenly has these weird triangles and things happening in the cheeks. The eyebrows look fine right up until that funky extra row with the triangles there. Etc.

Does the head look like a female?

Definitely.

Does the face have "character?" (non-generic)

Absolutely. In fact, when I said that my initial impression was that it would make a good stylized character, I wasn't kidding and that isn't meant to insult your work-- if you want to make a realistic model of the person in those reference pics, there's a long ways to go... but I would actually recommend saving a copy of the model at this stage that you can go back to later to make a stylized model with, she could be real niftylookin. :cool:

[markdc]

Gnarly Cranium,

Great feedback! Looks like I have alot of work to do. I'll probably try to fix the edge loops first, then go from there. This is a small update that I did before I read your post (worked on the nostrils, and tried to move the eys back):

Removing some wips to make thread load faster

Thanks

[zeroeefx]

the eyes are to big or the nose is to small. The nose should be like the size of a thrid eye in the middle of your head.The mouths sides should come to akmost the center of the eyes. (that will make your lips feel not so fat) The law line needs another loop to make it easyer on setup. But all and all , the key players are they just tweaking alot. Good luck to you

[markdc]

Thanks zeroeefx. I've made the nose a bit bigger:

Removing some wips to make the thread load faster

[artistx]

Hello Brian_dlm. Your model is shaping up really nice. I also think it's excellent that you are using reference and that you've posted it for us to look at. It is evident that you are searching for a realistic likeness in your modeling project. I commend you on that because getting realism is the most "unforgiving" of the artistic studies. I would recommend "Human Anatomy for artists" by Eliot Goldfinger if you don't already have the book.

Overall the proportions are looking pretty solid. You just have to chisel in the specific forms now. The head does look female in proportion. I think some character is starting to come out. I'd say the model looks introspective.

I think Gnarly Cranium has made some good comments. The neck is too thin, but I think that is partly a result of not having the jaw angle being clearly defined. Right now, from the front, it looks like the polygon model's jaw takes a straight diagonal from the chin to the cheek bone. The neck is slightly thinner than the jaw angle. In the front photo, the angle of the jaw angle is falling below the lips and and the masseter muscle bulges out to the sides more. In men you would really be able to see the masseter sticking out.

The chin has a little more horizontal flatness at it's bottom. You have two horn-like projections slightly under the jaw just behind the chin. I know what you were thinking. You looked at the side view and noticed the roundness underneath the chin. Right now you just have too few points to define that roundness. Don't be afraid to add edges either, even in the beginning stages. You can always go back and clean up and refine topological issues later. It's not like you're chiseling this thing out of marble.

If what I'm saying doesn't make much sense, with your permission, I will do some draw overs to illustrate what I mean.

I know I deal out harsh critiques, but i only want the best for you and your work. You have a good model going there.

[markdc]

>If what I'm saying doesn't make much sense, with your >permission, I will do some draw overs to illustrate what I mean.

Please do. That would probably help me. Thanks alot.

[Dennik]

I don't know about the model, but i like your reference! (just kidding)
Ok one thing is the mouth that has to be more wide (or thinner). Curently it has no relation to the girls mouth. It doesn't form that triangle you have in the middle, and the upper lip is much thinner than that.
You also need to redefine your topology, to follow the edge of the cheeks that goes from the corners of the mouth, to the side of the nosetrills. That is very important, or else you won't be able to shape a proper smile (if you try later on) or even get close to your reference as it is with the current topology.

[markdc]

Thanks Dennik. I've widened the mouth, worked on the chin, jawline, and cheeks:


http://www.flashcardsonline.com/images/yhead_wip10z.jpg


old model vs the new for comparison:

http://www.flashcardsonline.com/images/oldvsnew.jpg

[daniella3d]

the bottom of the top lip should be more straight. Lips don't have this form in the middle, it's mostly flat.

The top of the head looks a little wierd, like there is a round bump on top and in front.

the tip of the nose should be a little higher if you look at your model, her nose raise a little higher at the tip. You can see this clearly in the profile photo.

the shape of the chin is also different...she has a little recessing or crease between the chin and the bottom lip and her chin seems a little bit more wide than in your 3d model.

her nostril? are larger at the base and going less wide as it goes up, yours seem to be more round.

[markdc]

Originally posted by daniella3d
the bottom of the top lip should be more straight. Lips don't have this form in the middle, it's mostly flat.

The top of the head looks a little wierd, like there is a round bump on top and in front.



Thanks, I'll look at those. I've decided to deviate from the ref image in some areas.

[markdc]

Update

http://www.flashcardsonline.com/images/yhead_wip11z.jpg

[kerosene]

well it sure has improved a lot. Still lots to do though.

Keep posting wireframes along shaded images so that it is easier to point problems.

The eye shape is quite off. In your ref image the eye expression is very squinted and leads you away. Look for reference on that.

Also the mouth edges need certainly more geometry. Don't make mouth end to sharp v - ever :)

The image below gives some idea (it looks like there is triangle in the edge of mouth but it isn't) the marked red lines represent what you should have instead of on edge line.

Heikki

[markdc]

Originally posted by kerosene
well it sure has improved a lot. Still lots to do though.

Keep posting wireframes along shaded images so that it is easier to point problems.

The eye shape is quite off. In your ref image the eye expression is very squinted and leads you away. Look for reference on that.

Also the mouth edges need certainly more geometry. Don't make mouth end to sharp v - ever :)

The image below gives some idea (it looks like there is triangle in the edge of mouth but it isn't) the marked red lines represent what you should have instead of on edge line.

Heikki

Thanks for the image. I see what you mean about the corners of the mouth. I have some new refs for the eyes also, so I'll try to fix them too. Thanks for your help!

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