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Hakushinkan
07-19-2010, 08:30 PM
Hey guys,

I'm new to rendering.
I managed to figure out that the maya renderer is not that great for realistic results, so I started learning Mental Ray.

I'm quite astonished by the amount of information and experience I need to obtain before I can even start getting good results in mental ray, and while I'm so busy learning those - I keep hearing about Vray.

I couldn't find a single piece of educational material online. No books, no online tutoring, nothing. All I could find out is that it's originally only for max, and lately it's been available for maya as well, and that it's supposed to be the best renderer out there.

So, the deal is, whats all the noise? how can I try it? can I even try it? and how can I learn it? and is it that much better than mental ray?

I'm confused. Please help. Thanks.
:)

DuttyFoot
07-19-2010, 08:45 PM
as far as vray for maya goes you can check this thread

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=87&t=796826

Hakushinkan
07-19-2010, 10:02 PM
Thats a great resource, thanks!

Hamburger
07-20-2010, 01:17 AM
how can I try it? can I even try it? and how can I learn it?



You can try the demo here (you have to create an account before you download):
http://chaosgroup.com/en/2/downloads.html?s=v-ray-maya

Docs:
http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/maya/150R1/

Hakushinkan
07-20-2010, 01:27 AM
You can try the demo here (you have to create an account before you download):
http://chaosgroup.com/en/2/downloads.html?s=v-ray-maya

Docs:
http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/maya/150R1/

Thanks m8, now it seems like I have enough material to get into it :)

I'm understanding this renderer is specifically for architectural designs, is that true?

InfernalDarkness
07-20-2010, 03:02 AM
Thanks m8, now it seems like I have enough material to get into it :)

I'm understanding this renderer is specifically for architectural designs, is that true?

No, that's not true. Vray works well for realism, which is why many arch/viz studios choose it, but so does mental ray, which is why many others choose that renderer. Neither was designed specifically for arch/viz, but both do it better than than all the others can.

Both can do many of the same things, but mental ray is far more programmable and complex. Renders faster when tuned, but can take longer to tune, so that advantage isn't great. Vray can also render faster when tuned!

So it comes down to money: if you have the budget to purchase Maya, get Vray now, while you still can! Learning MR will drive you insane. Which is why people like me still use it primarily: we've lost our damn minds!

Edit: For what it's worth (or not worth), I've never even used Vray for Maya, only for Rhino. And I guarantee it's easier and quicker to learn than mental ray.

Hamburger
07-20-2010, 03:04 AM
Yeah - I agree. Also, as a recent example (posted yesterday) it's not only just arch viz that's being produced with V-Ray + Maya:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiaRAcpIJmw&feature=player_embedded

cgbeige
07-20-2010, 03:08 AM
V-Ray by a bajillion.

ndeboar
07-20-2010, 04:25 AM
Software comparison threads arn't really allowed here.

Vray for me is the better choice. Vray has a better buffer system, way better support for linear color (that said, i havnt touch linear color in 2011), one click sub-d's, proxy's that support animation, matterial modifcations post proxy creation and dyanmic previews, stand alone renderer with all versions (saves having to load maya into memory when rendering), and hell i generally just like it.

Hakushinkan
07-20-2010, 09:08 AM
Software comparison threads arn't really allowed here.

Vray for me is the better choice. Vray has a better buffer system, way better support for linear color (that said, i havnt touch linear color in 2011), one click sub-d's, proxy's that support animation, matterial modifcations post proxy creation and dyanmic previews, stand alone renderer with all versions (saves having to load maya into memory when rendering), and hell i generally just like it.

This isn't supposed to be a comparison thread :X the title might suggest it. I'll change.

Anyway, I figured it out more or less, I think.
Vray is great for realism, but mental ray has more flexibility.
Mental ray is a toughy to learn, Vray is quicker and easier.

Well, I'm with mental ray for now, I'll learn Vray for job purposes but I guess in the end, Mental ray is the preferred renderer for cartoonish stuff, right?

chafouin
07-20-2010, 09:44 AM
Vray works for everything, even cartoonish :) If you start with Vray, you will never want to work on Mental Ray (and you will be probably right).

Hakushinkan
07-20-2010, 03:12 PM
Vray works for everything, even cartoonish :) If you start with Vray, you will never want to work on Mental Ray (and you will be probably right).

After a few minutes of playing around, I must say the material preview integration for Vray is far, far better than mental ray :X

GQ1
07-20-2010, 07:13 PM
Does shave and a hair cut work with Vray for Maya?

fezz
07-20-2010, 09:17 PM
Does shave and a hair cut work with Vray for Maya?

No, someone would have to write a proxy exporter from Shave to Vray.

DuttyFoot
07-21-2010, 12:48 AM
Vray is great for realism, but mental ray has more flexibility.

Actually they are both able to give realistic renders.

Hakushinkan
07-21-2010, 01:10 AM
Actually they are both able to give realistic renders.

Well that's what I meant.

DuttyFoot
07-21-2010, 01:55 AM
Well that's what I meant.

ok, cool :)

ndeboar
07-21-2010, 04:14 AM
Vray is great for realism, but mental ray has more flexibility.

How is mental ray more flexible? V-ray has an API, and can be as flexible as you want.

TaKIKO
07-21-2010, 04:14 AM
Maya Software. Bam!. Done

TaKIKO
07-21-2010, 04:14 AM
silly internet

InfernalDarkness
07-21-2010, 05:23 AM
Vray is great for realism, but mental ray has more flexibility.

How is mental ray more flexible? V-ray has an API, and can be as flexible as you want.

How is it more flexible? Because it's programmed to be, silly. It's a more complex and expansive set of BS. It's more flexible because it's more programmable and more extensive. It's more annoying because it's a pain in the ass to use. But King Kong ain't got (nothin') on mental ray, "in theory".

My suggestion stands: if you can afford Vray, do it. I can't this year, but very soon I hope!

ndeboar
07-21-2010, 05:36 AM
Nice response :)

To be honest, no renderer does it for me, they all fail in some respect. Im back on Prman, and i love the speed, but man it takes ages to set things up. Then i get to Vray and and yay for easy of setup, but damn to speed (realitve to prman at least).

Interested to see if Arnold hits the right notes.

DieMachinist
07-21-2010, 06:07 PM
....get Vray now, while you still can!

Why do you say that? Is something about to change?

BTW I hate MR! I am considering buying Vray but have not pulled the trigger yet as I am debating if getting Modo instead and ditching Maya would be a better option for my particular needs. I am really frustrated with all of 3d today.

Samuka3000
07-21-2010, 06:59 PM
...I am really frustrated with all of 3d today.

i share your pain :cry:

chafouin
07-22-2010, 10:08 AM
Why do you say that? Is something about to change?

BTW I hate MR! I am considering buying Vray but have not pulled the trigger yet as I am debating if getting Modo instead and ditching Maya would be a better option for my particular needs. I am really frustrated with all of 3d today.

I understand what you mean. For example, I love maya, I use it everyday at work, but for me it's a really expensive software, and it doesn't do everything I want to do. It's a great tool, it does a lot of things, but it's not the best.
If you wanted to do only modeling, I would work on Silo for example, which is great and cheap. But I would still need Maya to unwrap quickly the UV's.
If I wanted to work on hipoly modeling and texture painting, I would buy ZBrush, or 3d Coat. But I would still need Maya to render the images.
And if I would like to go deeper in VFX I would buy Houdini, or 3dmax with FumeFX. But I would still need a scene where I could integrate my effects, and this scene will most of the time come from Maya.
And if I would like to make great renders, I would go for Maxwell, or buy Vray, but I would still need Maya to export geometry and shaders.

Changing softwares everytime makes the worflow really slow and not effecient. Since I could never get rid of Maya, then I prefered to masterize it. It's not the best, but when you know how to use it (this includes ALL the workarounds for Mental Ray, Fluids, etc..), you can compete with the best :) Remember that the only thing that matters is the result, not the way you did it.

Airflow
07-22-2010, 07:52 PM
Based on workarounds, Mray is the king here.
Base on just working and not needing to work around, or use any flexibility, Vray wins hands down.
One is sort of cost free and so its clunky and so needs extended ability to tweak, the other cost a bit and is well thought out and implemeted, could be if it needed it due to its api but does not and its rare that you need to script anything for it.
Kinda reminds me of the difference between Maya and 3dsmax. They are both capable, they go about the task differently.
Id always pick Vray and Max over Mentalray and Maya but It has not stopped me using all the software which is a benifit to me. So learn them both, then either go for the one that hits the ground running but dont have a map or the one thats a Super-swiss army knife but you have to learn how to open and close it correctly.

egglybagelface
07-23-2010, 09:27 AM
When I used 3dsmax at various studios, I worked with finalRender, Brazil, mentalray, Maxwell and Maxman.

Vray all the way.

But prman over vray these days.

pix3lm0nk
07-23-2010, 01:42 PM
One is sort of cost free and so its clunky and so needs extended ability to tweak, the other cost a bit and is well thought out and implemeted, could be if it needed it due to its api but does not and its rare that you need to script anything for it..


The only thing free about Mental Ray is the first license on the machine you use. You still have to pay for Mental Ray licenses on a farm, which is ultimately where you want large scale projects to go. You'd figure after all the years of partnership with Autodesk(Alias) and Mental Imaging, they would allow for unlimited Mental Ray for Maya licenses on a render farm.

For a farm, ultimately Vray is cheaper than MR for out of the box rendering solution on a farm using Maya as your primary platform. The Vray standalone licenses are cheaper than MR standalone and require less work to make sure Maya scenes are translated properly, unless something has changed with both of the standalone versions?

Zeicon
07-23-2010, 02:19 PM
And if I would like to make great renders, I would go for Maxwell, or buy Vray, but I would still need Maya to export geometry and shaders.

What do you mean? Just use Vray inside of Maya and you don't have to export your geometry and shaders from Maya.

Vray all the way by the way. Much better than "I'm going mental, Ray!"

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