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fleshtheworld
07-17-2010, 06:15 AM
http://a.imageshack.us/img130/3541/angelog.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/angelog.jpg/)

Update - This is a poor update. I dont know what she is wearing. Eventually i want to make her a little girl again (she looks skimpy) but currently im trying to give her life. It looks more alive but im not sure what to add or how to change it. I think i might keep it like this. A fuzzy memory look. Probably just fix up the dirty lines, especially her legs. Does her hair look better or did i messed up the style/feel :)

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5199/angelx.jpg (http://img844.imageshack.us/i/angelx.jpg/)

From a later post about the purpose of this image - The concept was an angel starring at a bright shining cross floating in mid-air. But i sucked and couldnt achieve the awesome shining cross. So, i thought of a grave. Eventually i wasnt sure what i was doing. So i turned it into a sort of dream or weird feeling - death and uncertainty with the innocence of a young girl looking at it.

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Original Post - Hello, iv been having issues with giving my images a polish look and feel. Im on a journey to discover ways to give my images a completed look. No matter the style, level of quality.

When i look at my art, i always feel like they are not complete. Even when i have a lot of details, in fact the more details the harder it is for me to give it a complete look.

For this image i have presented, it barely has any details, yet it feels more complete then my other detailed pieces. I actually like it and feel quite complete. I was able to achieve what i wanted.

What do guys think, besides the obvious incomplete legs? Does it give you a complete feel to the piece?

But again, i find myself avoiding the hard work to achieve the proper completed look... I created this vivid image to achieve a finnish feel... Instead of working on superman. I see my problem, its a phycological problem of not wanting to work hard and offcourse lack of experience. But i feel with each attemp i am getting closer to removing these mental roadblock.

The end goal is to be able to give my images a polish look. I think im getting closer.

Heres the thread that lead to this thread.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=6608376#post6608376

halen
07-18-2010, 08:13 PM
Hello, iv been having issues with giving my images a polish look and feel. Im on a journey to discover ways to give my images a completed look. No matter the style, level of quality.

When i look at my art, i always feel like they are not complete. Even when i have a lot of details, in fact the more details the harder it is for me to give it a complete look.

I'll pop by here too... ;-) There are people who know more about these subjects, but just my 2 cents for starters.

General:
In order to polish something you should decide where you are aiming for. Process is different, because you might have partially different "toolbox" in use depending on what are you doing. I wouldn't say that one style is easier than another to master, since doing anything good is usually a lot of work anyway (or then it is a one time trick that is wonderfull for that one time). For me it is actually harder to do simplified stuff with very few details. Some time ago spended couple of days nudging elements pixel by pixels to get em right... When there is less stuff, the remaining are getting more importance. If you are painting it all you have a lot of tools to play with: a whole bunch of compositional tools, colors, textures, shapes, values, brushwork and so on, but when it comes down to one color line art, simplified designs or someting like calligraphy there are fewer tools left, quality of lines, shape dynamics and rythm, use of space (and empty space) and some, but those are getting a lot more important, since you can't "razzle dazzle" 'em with something else.

So just pick something you are aiming for with each work and go for that.

When something is finished is an another question. When the maker feels like it? Or when fellows at the internet don't find anything to fix (not likely to happen ever). It is kind of easy when doing commerial work - it is finished when the deadline is and client accepts it. Is there still something that could be made better with those images? Certainly is, but on the other hand there might be 15 other images to finish... It is good to know also that there is something that could be done probably in every work ever made, "mistakes" even in masterpieces, but those are still good works. There is always some limit of good enought one have to accept - the client or the maker (and sometimes even both are happy).

The annoying part comes when you know something is wrong, but don't know what. Then this is the place to ask. ;-) Or you might try to flip the image (it usually helps to see it with fresh eyes and it is easiert to judge what is wrong). You can get the same effect by letting image be for couple of days and when you get back with fresh eyes, you usually can see what is wrong. Or go trough somekind of checklist and check if those things are supporting your intention, mood or story: is composition right, lighting, details, colors, values, linework, anatomy... If something is wrong just remove it, move it, add something - fix it untill you can't find anything that bothers.

About this image:

Take my comments with grain of salt, since there are people way better than I am with this. Imho it still needs work. There is uncertainty on what you are aiming for and that makes it hard to criticize. You have made some gradiend and some lines for background, yet the main points of focus are floating. If you are doing lineart, you need to do more confident lines and remove the rest. If you are going for something else, then it still needs something more. In both cases you should check if the composition is what you want. Left third is kind of waste of space now.

Currently I like the line of her hair and hem the best. Hair has agood shape and hem has something light in it - as it shoud have. You could try to draw her hair with one confident curvy line if might be still less angular and same thing with the hem - some well placed stronger lines could give it certain shape. Several lines of her legs are making them a bit heavy - and I'd also like to see her feet/shoes.

I'm also missing something at the story side. Now there is a girl and a cross. Cross is a strong symbol, but used for both: hope and horror (or saddness or mystery or life or death...) and nothing here indicates what do you want to communicate with this image. Something is needed to make it a litte bit easier to viewer to identify with the girl and the mood in the image. Let it bee a light, pose, shape of cross, composition creating tension, environment - anything.

Hope this helps a bit. Keep going.

RoundRobbin
07-18-2010, 09:03 PM
the drawing looks good, but it's just a line drawing . The pink is the environment and your washing out the objects with white?
I don't get it. Are you trying to say something or is this just a test drawing behind pink..
It doesn't look polished at all. there are a lot of scribbled lines around contours.
You could try cleaning the line work so it isn't so sketchy. and add shading and lights, and hilights.

I like line drawing a lot. So if you could further that and tighten it up in this picture it would be a solid base for added layering.

fleshtheworld
07-19-2010, 08:13 AM
Hi, thanks for the comments and advice.

@ halen
I guess i dont take too much of that into consideration, the purpose and what im trying to portray and how the audience might not get what the image is about. I see how taking those into account will help the picture and my improvement greatly. I am appreciated of your help. I have off course during the time i created this thread further worked on the pink image. I think people might not like it cause im still trying to finnish it and give it the right feel (but i think i ruined it) and the girl has completely changed :/ Iv updated the first post concerning the pink image.

@ Durty
Yeap, iv already worked on the image but i think i lost the feeling. The concept was an angel starring at a bright shining cross floating in mid-air. But i sucked and couldnt achieve the awesome shining cross. So, i thought of a grave. Eventually i wasnt sure what i was doing. So i turned it into a sort of dream or weird feeling - death and uncertainty with the innocence of a young girl looking at it.

So today, just now actually, iv been working on this piece. Honestly iv never gone so deep into a piece before and it actually feels nice. Im seeing the lightness and the amount of darkness of hue that i need, ect, that i have to use in order to get the right desired feel. Well iv work over an hour on it and i think this could be my first fully completed piece. Biggest thing iv noticed is the great level of hue/extremedy that i need to achieve the shade and dept look.

Advice and comments are appreciated. Its a WIP piece.

Update - Looks better now. I am using this piece to study lighting and color value. This could be the last piece for a while.

3rd Version - First was a sketch with color hint. 2nd was complete but proportion was from a bad reference - i was studying the color and lighting style from the piece. 3rd is the last, i scratch it all cause of the proportion, did my own version instead. I didnt do the lighting cause it was too extreme lol. Maybe one day ill add the lighting and grease/sweat...

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2290/maishiranui.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/i/maishiranui.jpg/)

RoundRobbin
07-19-2010, 06:48 PM
i see, if u master the line drawing first and than use color you could see that since your grave is high it would have to lay on top of something like a hill.. and it's compelling how u went from a sweet girl in a dress to a fem fit for 'hentai', the 'hentai' looking character looks nice to me and u seemed to have nailed that specific style, by 'style', I mean the exaggerations you've embedded look fitting. Perhaps, if you may, or could... some added detailing and subtlety to accentuate those exaggerations, this goes for each strand of hair with highlights, and texture, and material. by doing this, you practically make something 'cartoony' look as real as it could on paper or screen. This locks the works form and style with a mastered image where every single part or zone of the character could stand on its own. It's a lot of work and a great exercise.

fleshtheworld
07-20-2010, 02:51 AM
Thanks Durty. Im am planning on further touching up the pink image. Cleaning up the lines, adding details. Im sorta of not sure how to change the background (im not good with backgrounds). But i like both version like you said, its a nice transition. From a sweet girl to a... like you said 'hentai' girl appearance.

RoundRobbin
07-20-2010, 06:47 AM
I said 'compelling', not 'nice'..
although i'm all for the bad girl for monetary pleasure and sadist satisfaction. Most intelligible audiences take more sustenance from a 'nice' girl which is what you seemed to have abandoned rather than the complete opposite which is common day subject matter fitting adolescent gaming.

fleshtheworld
07-21-2010, 02:14 PM
No i am not abandoning it. I currently have 2 versions and plan on cleaning both up. The hentai look is your perception but not my intention nor is she suppose to be bad or anything of that ideology. Both are innocent and neither is of the nature you mentioned, just ones perception and influence.

In the latest version she has shoes so she doesnt look so naked anymore.

Riperton
07-26-2010, 11:56 PM
No i am not abandoning it. I currently have 2 versions and plan on cleaning both up. The hentai look is your perception but not my intention nor is she suppose to be bad or anything of that ideology. Both are innocent and neither is of the nature you mentioned, just ones perception and influence.

In the latest version she has shoes so she doesnt look so naked anymore.

Okay, based upon your picture, I drew some lines over it ... aaand then I did sort of my own thing, because I didn't know how to finish with your proprtions. But since you wanted to convey an innocent look I abandoned them. I started with the face and I first stayed with your lines, but I had to change the whole expression.
This is rather a fast comical approach. But it shows you certain lines I think are important to convey the look.
Most work went into the eyebrows, eyes, posture. Look for yourself.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e354/Riperton/mvcorr01.png



P.S.
I kept some of the helper lines, to show you more of the process.

P.P.S.
"When there is less stuff, the remaining are getting more importance."
Can just subscribe to this, if thats of any relevance to you. The flow of the line, or even the thickness over the course of the line are suddenly a more vital componenent.

fleshtheworld
07-27-2010, 03:26 AM
Thanks Riperton, that does make it look more innocent. But i was referring to the first post image, sorry, there was an issue and the image was gone, but its back. The thread was being discussed about the (first post) pink image.

But you did make the second (later post) image more innocent :) But the second piece was focused at coloring and lighting, values, dept.

Riperton
07-27-2010, 11:21 AM
But my actual point is, before investing to much energy into coloring, good proportions are the foundation of the feel and look of your creation.
You said, "The hentai look is your perception but not my intention nor is she suppose to be bad or anything of that ideology. Both are innocent and neither is of the nature you mentioned, just ones perception and influence." But in the end, the last picture conveys the look Durty described - and this is a problem, if that was not your intention.

BTW, I liked the proportions in the first image, ... nice lining, good continuity in the charakter. But confusing composition and content.

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