WIP LW feng model

[Remi]

I like what you have going so far...perhaps though if you could rotate the eyes so they face a bit more forward that would help...good details around them though....keep it up:)

[robin]

Good luck, this sketch looks like lots of work

organicly looks like its well started

[Stoehr]

Gkaine:
I really like the start. As far as comments, there's not much to say, unless you want us to critique your wireframe. I'd open the mouth in the early modeling stage and pose the mouth in at least one pose to test the functionality of the wireframe.

I like the complexity your adding to the original design. Looks great!

[Gkaine]

thx for the replies and c&c guys

ive changed the eyes as you suggested remie. but i may have went overboard, i cant decide if i should move em back or leave em.
stoehr thats a great idea. i am having trouble with the mouth and would love some advice on how i should go about doing it. the sketch has it drawn more like a horses mouth but it is suppose to be a lizard, so i am wrestling with how to do this.

here is an update
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/warriorwire.jpg
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/lofront2.jpg
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/loside2.jpg

[BladeFX]

I like the eyes better this way.
It gives much more caracter to your character.

Looking good so far :thumbsup:

[skifire]

I like the eyes forward as they are now but maybe some thing in between both would look cool to. Great job :D


Mark

[Stoehr]

Gkaine:
Whether you choose for it to look like a horse or lizard doesn't matter right now, what you need is "circular" isoparms for the mouth. (a circular wireframe for the lips, like on humans).

I'd like to see your mesh when unsubpatched. Before you show us, I'll say, the form should be very close between subpatches and faces. Do you toggle between subpatches and faces as you model?

I was having fun with my new Wacom, and wrote some notes on your wireframe. :)

Let's see the neck! I find modeling the head and neck together (whether human or not) is the most advantageous when determining transitions from low-to-high detail areas; and vice versa.

EDIT: The Rule of Three Isoparms is something I teach and say to my students, all the time. It helps them understand how subpatches and faces are working together. Ultimately, all other processes of 3D animation refer to the face topology (ie., UV mapping, simulations, shaders, etc.).

http://www.theladyandthelion.com/forumPosts/warriorwire_edit.jpg

[Gkaine]

thx blade n ski:)

stoehr:
hmmm im not sure what you mean by isoparms. do you mean the line should go all the way around the object? like using the edge tool, or kindve like a spiderweb ?

i sometimes model between polygon and subpatch alot but for this model i have just been modeling in subpatchs and mostly in perspective.
and i agree that area is to dense i just havent gotten around to weeding out the polys from the eye area yet. i did on the front end tho. also the nose is indeed to dense, i hadnt noticed it but ill fix it

the problem im having with the rest of his head is there really isnt a ton of detail on the sketch of the face because its covered by a mask so im just kindve wingn it and trying to think what would be under it.
and i love wacom tablets, thx alot for making a pic for me to, it really helps :thumbsup:

[Stoehr]

An isoparm is a continuous line, but doesn't necessarily go all the way around a model; it could be a circular line of the mouth or eyes. Isoparms break up patches.

Isoparms are to subpatches; what splines are to spline-patches.

For example, when using the bandsaw tool, it seeks out two parallel isoparms, or an edgeloop. But don't confuse an edgeloop with an isoparm. An edgeloop is two parallel isoparms creating an animatible area of a character.

Here's a quick break down I made recently to help define isoparms:

Wireframe comprises -->
Isoparms comprise -->
Edgeloops comprise -->
Edges.

I know it's not the best breakdown, but the terminology is different.

[Stoehr]

I'd make the helmet right away as well. If the audience never sees the creatures head without the helmet, then build it at the same time as the head. This way you can better decifer what level of detail the head needs to be.

[Gkaine]

ok i am a bit confused but i am going to read that over and over and think about it until i get it :P

[chikega]

Isoparms are used in the Nurbs world quite frequently. In the polygonal world, it's more frequently called "flow" or "edge loops". But since LW doesn't allow for the manipulation of edges - some people call it "poly loops". Essentially you want to create a circular flow pattern around the mouth to allow for ease of animating later on without wierd pinching or breaking. The flow tries to replicate real world muscle patterns - in this case, the orbicularis oris muscle. Here's an interesting take on this topic by a former LW user:

http://www.metagons.com/dsarticle04.htm

In any case, Metagons website is a huge resource for the study of polygonal model construction.

[MooseDog]

wow, beautiful modelling all things considered.

here's a left-field consideration: in the animal world, generally speaking, eyes facing forward belong to predators: eagles, wolves, humans,..... and eyes facing out belong to herbivors: cows, horses, tweety birds, democrats:rolleyes:

[Gkaine]

that was a great help chikega. what i take from it is everything should loop so adding detail is easy with the edge tool and it keeps it flowing correctly.
i am gonna go back and do alot of tweakingo n the wireframe before i do the mouth. i will try to fix things

moosedog thx for the compliment:) it is a predator so i guess its eyes should be foward then

also for one of stoehr's earlier questions, it looks very much alike in polygons as it looks in subpatched

[chikega]

I'm glad I could be of assistance - now that I look at your model, with a few tweaks here and there you'll have Sebulba, a dug species, featured in Star Wars Episode I:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/sebulba/

[Gkaine]

its funny you should mention that because my teacher said the exact same thing to me last night :P

also here is the unsubpatched mesh for stoehr
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/polymesh.jpg

[Stoehr]

Looks great Gkaine! I look forward to more.

Chikega: Thanks for the link. It's very helpful with translating cross program languages.

[Stoehr]

For the head of this creature, I have no idea if your interested in other animals for topology references, but this book is a safe bet.

An Atlas of Animal Anatomy for Artists
BY: W. Ellenberger, H. Dittrich, and H Baum
ISBN: 0-486-20082-5

This book is awesome! If your looking for another resource to help define muscle topologies that are non-human. There are great orthogonal images of animals; similar to a meat cutters diagram, but better.

[robin]

Cant wait to see the leather and gears for this guy

its all coming along i see

[Stoehr]

Gkaine:
What school do you go to, and who's your teacher?

[Gkaine]

i graduated from school a couple months ago. but it was an 18 month local print school :P i had 3 classes on lightwave and i havent stopped using it since the first day tho i love 3d.

i am thinking about applying to ringling or vfs. i dunno tho i havent looked into all schools or all options for me yet as im to buisy making stuff in lightwave :D

here is an update on the wire.
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire.jpg

[Gkaine]

after looking at the concept more ive made it a shorted face and almost skull like nostrils. also just been trying to fix the wire alot
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire2.jpg

[Pi3141]

This is looking really really great. I really like the personality in his eyes.

But I have to be honest with you, I think i prefer the first design, rather than the new short nosed version.

Theres somthing about the first design that makes him look oriental and mysterious.

[HeretotheMoon]

Hey GKaine,

I see you've made some adjustments. I definitely liked the long nose better, even though it did look like Sebulba. Sebulba's a great character anyways. I'm sure after texturing, and the larger body that you intend to build, it will begin to take it's own character shape. That's funny that someone else mentioned the resemblance though.:)

Stoehr: By the way, I was one of GKaine's teachers in school. However, I can't take much credit, it is his drive and determination that has brought him this far.

Keep up the good work GKaine.

Chad
www.heretothemooncartoons.com

[Gkaine]

ok everyone i have asked has told me longer= better so its going back to longer
thx pi i saw ur characters, they're are awsome

thx chad :D

here is updated pic btw
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire3.jpg

[Gkaine]

ive started the mask . the mouth still needs to be made. i will get around to that in a bit
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire4.jpg

[Pi3141]

This is getting better and better. Good choice going back to the longer face.

I love the mask!!

If you want to add a bit of your own touch like you mentioned. May I suggest the following.

Your characters profile... to me, indicated that he is very wise. I think it's because of the jaw structure and general flow of the head.

If you want to take this "wise" look a little further,

See at the end of his chin, those two bumps? Extend them a little longer, and taper them off at the end... almost having an appearance of catfish wiskers comming out of his chin.

I'm not sure why, but I have a feeling that it would look cool, and suit the character well.

Call it a hunch.

EItherway great work. Can't wait to see a body

[Remi]

Very nice progression....but...if I recall...and you may just be going off of Fengs art and not actually replicating it...but the thing on the head just hangs down doesn't it....it doesn't actually go around the head....the eye's look much better and the mouth is great.....you should be quite happy with the results you're getting. Keep it up:)

[Gkaine]

yup your right. when i was making the mask i noticed the back of the head was not big enough and needed to be redone for the mask to fit. so i did a quick placew holder of the mask last night. i am in the process of remaking the back of the head atm so i can put all the detail on the mask that is on the drawing

and pi i was thinkin of doing that same thing but i think i am gona try and stick to the drawing for now until the head mouth and helmet is finished. then i will extend em and see how it all looks, and if it looks awsome i will keep it

[BladeFX]

I realy like the mouth.

I'd love to see some facial expressions already.
Please model the inside, so you can open it later.

keep going :thumbsup: :wip:

[webfox]

I liked him much better with a longer face. He just looks like Sebulba now.

[Gkaine]

ive been tryin to do the mouth all day. its just really bothering me and im not liking how its coming out much. if anyone has any suggestions for how i should tackle this plz do tell.
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire5.jpg

[Remi]

my first suggestion would be to smooth shift back to the throat area....when and if you do any lipsync or growl or anything like it won't work because you can see the back of the mouth....once you have that done...start on some teeth...other than that...the lips and actual geom around the mouth look fine to me...maybe a bit to many poly's but you can work around that...band glue and such...looks pretty good man...don't give up....keep going and just do what feels natural:)

[Gkaine]

ok after i took a bit of a break from it and came back to it this morning i was less frustrated and thinking more clearly. i have restarted the mouth
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire6.jpg

[Remi]

Much better....way to go....sometimes I just sit back and stare at my models and subliminally the answers just come to me....so taking a break probably was the best thing you could do...just give your mellon a rest for a bit....nice work:)

[Gkaine]

ok i am almost ready to do the teeth tounge and helmet. is this what you meant by the inside of the mouth remi?
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire7.jpg

[Stoehr]

Bring the back of the throat half way through the neck, so shadows will catch properly. I think you can bandglue many of the isoparms/edgeloops you have there. I know you want tight detail around the eye, but keep the high polys around the eye in concentric loops(same as with the lips), and remove the high poly count around the jaw line and bridge of the nose.

My comments are based on the result seen in smooth shade. Due to the lack of "bumps" in the form, and the form is relatively smooth, except around the eyes, I think you can remove many isoparms. Optimizing the polycount will simplify and expedite all steps of the animation process.

It's really coming along, and looks good! Now you can spend a little time refining the model, while maintaining the "look".

[Gkaine]

k i will do that with his inner mouth.
what is band glue? i never heard or seen of it

[omega-0nd]

hi gkaine!

really impressive modeling out there, keep it goin', i've to agree with stoehr on simplifying the model using the bandglue command (the reverse operation of bandsaw), u can fin it on construct > additional > bandglue or u can do it manually on some particular flat areas.

can't wait to see it texturized,
ciao ciao.

[Gkaine]

ok band glue just kicks ass. thanks for the tip guys.

btw the isoparms edgeloop tips REALLY helped guys i really appreciate it thanks

and ond ive done your orc tutorial before, it was helpful in helping me model better:)

[omega-0nd]

:)

thx very proud of it

[Gkaine]

if you're interested, here is what i ended up with after doing your tutorial :)
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/render1.jpg

[xasteycracker]

OMG this is freaking great. I took a look at the concept and it looks just like the model. The only thing that i can say is remove some of the polys,mostly around the eys. but besides that it looks great.:thumbsup:

[Stoehr]

Originally posted by Gkaine
ok band glue just kicks ass. thanks for the tip guys.

btw the isoparms edgeloop tips REALLY helped guys i really appreciate it thanks

and ond ive done your orc tutorial before, it was helpful in helping me model better:)

I had a suspicious feeling you didn't know about bandglue. Great! Now you know. I'd love to see your result.

[Gkaine]

i feel like i may have went to far and butchered the model .

i have a back up saved so if i did plz tell me;p

edit: after doing some test renders i do beleive i went a bit overboard i will have to redo it i think.
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire8.jpg

[Stoehr]

Originally posted by Gkaine
i feel like i may have went to far and butchered the model .

i have a back up saved so if i did plz tell me;p

edit: after doing some test renders i do beleive i went a bit overboard i will have to redo it i think.


Now way! Don't start over, this is great! Now you just need to go back into the model, adjust the form, and strategically add and subtract edgeloops as you see fit.

[Gkaine]

is this type of modeling looked down upon in the industry? because i am not box modeling, will it hurt my chances of being succesful?

also, is there a tool that works like bandglue but with points?
i have had to select to points and weld them down the line for quite a few areas, it resembles sewing if that helps explain better, if there is a tool that does this for me it would be great

[Gkaine]

here is a comparison. i am having trouble getting it to look the way it did tho.
A. is 1474 polys.
B. is 3104 polys.
i am trying to form the gemoetry back stoehr but its difficult because after the clean up the wire isnt as free moving and there are alot more areas that i realy cant touch because it effects to much by moving 1 area.
but i will keep trying
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire9.jpg

[Stoehr]

Yeah, you can do it. The trick is to keep high detail areas localized by working in concentric rings, and "funneling" or "splitting" isoparms/edgeloops as you need more or less with triangles or diamond shape quadrangles. (TIP: keep triangles and diamond shaped quads small and away from flexible parts of the model, because they create subpatch artifacts and make deformations more difficult). For example, traingles used for funneling isoparms is ok, but keep the triangle near a bone (bone being a place in the model where deformation would less likely occur).

You say you started with about 3500 and now it's about half. Perhaps cutting the poly count in half is too much to attain the detail level you need to be successful. But don't think about the model in terms of poly count too much. Try to approach the model with the thinking, "I need to maitain the look, while using only as many polys/isoparms as I need to make it functional for animation".

After your optimization of the model, I'd say you went too far, but that's ok, now you can bring back some detail, but keep it localized to the details region. In other words, if you need more detail between the eyes, don't let the isoparms go all the way around the model, keep it between the eyes.

You'll get it! It still looks great, just bring some detail back.

To answer your question about being successful without box modeling: Your chances of being successful are great. I wouldn't worry about that. You just need to balance the model for the rest of the productions needs. Also, Box Modeling is only one way to approach modeling, there is also point-to-point (a.k.a. "detail up"), and spline. If you combine the best of the three modeling practices, you'll be a powerful modeler, and desired by many. Then there's NURBS modeling (which isn't in Lightwave).

[Gkaine]

ok i had to hold work on thisto do something for a friend but i finished tht today so i will restart this tomorow. i havent given up on it! i think i am going to just move on with it for now and use the higher poly version so i can finish it and then optimize after, i really wanna do the armor for some reason ;p

[Chewey]

This is very nice work. I'd recommend trying to visualize what the underlying bone structure would/should look like when designing creatures.

[Remi]

Keep going Gkaine.....don't quit on us:)

[Gkaine]

sorry for the sudden stop on updated i got so buisy with other stuff but ive started work on this again here is an update
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire10.jpg

[Remi]

Looks really good to me Gkaine....nice update....keep going man...no worries about the delay....it happens to us all:)

[Gkaine]

im havin trouble figuring out how his body should go because the drawing really isnt normal human anatomy and there is no back to the drawing so its taking a bit. if anyone has any suggestions as to how i should go about doing this id appreciate it.

[projectcoil]

Try here

http://www.dark-age.com/showimage.php?id=143

[Gkaine]

u rock man thanks
edit:
here is an updated pic but not a bit update. i had also posted this in main wip forum. i have done the body area a couple times and just not liked it cuz wasnt sure how back was but this should help me get goin on it agian
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/collage.jpg

[projectcoil]

:blush:

[AndrewE]

OMG!

I'm like crying over here, that is soo beautiful!!!!

[LittleFenris]

Originally posted by MooseDog ...and eyes facing out belong to herbivors: cows, horses, tweety birds, democrats :rolleyes:

MUAHAHAHA!! :applause:

[Gkaine]

small update. also im stil going to add alot of detail to the chin
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/collage2.jpg

[Gkaine]

reverted back to the old chin but with newer face
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/43.jpg

[DaKrunch]

this is getting seriously interesting!
:thumbsup:

just two things... the nose and the mouth have lost most of its lizard look...
also i preferred the eyes a bit larger. Think that the head itself is very small compared with the body... if you make the eyes too small in the head, they'll be almost invisible even in first plane...

keep it up man!

[Remi]

Looks good G.....I would maybe add some thickness to the guy....building that body on this would be a bit odd due to the skinny neck going into a big burley body.:) Keep it up man...don't quit....try box modeling the body and then bandsawing and such to add details where you need them.:)

[Gkaine]

k here is a small update
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire11.jpg

thx for the comments guys
krunch: i agree, i was thinking the same thing, the mouth never realy looked like a lizard mouth even in the drawing. lizard mouths go the whole way back like a croc and i decided at the start that i was going to put a more human esque mouth on it. but the nose needs work i agree, so i changed it a bit,

remi: was plannin on enlargin the neck just hadnt gotten around to it also not sure how much detail i wanna put on it because there will be so much armor over it.
but i enlarged the neck for this update and started to rough out the body. there is no side pic so im kinda just goin with what looks right to me at the time.

[Gkaine]

minor update. forcing myself to box model the entire body as per request!
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/50.jpg
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/52.jpg

[Facial Deluxe]

Wow, me likes ! :thumbsup: :love:

[Remi]

Uber nice G....Are you liking the box modeling or not? Just curious...I find there are people who like it and don't and I just want your take on it.....also...the body is coming along nicely...keep going:)

[Gkaine]

i like it. i think both types of modeling has their strenghts and weaknesses and i will be using both of them from now on.

[Gkaine]

spin quads is a good tool :D
small update
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/collage3.jpg

[bluavenger]

Very nice work!:applause:

[SPIDER2544]

wow this thing is going to be scary good by the time its finished keep it up it getts better with every up date

[Gkaine]

i think i may have to redo the body a bit i am not totaly sure if this is looking right. maybe i should raise the pecs ...not sure but something seems off
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/collage4.jpg

[Pi3141]

Gkaine, your model is looking great so far!

I too would probably raise the pectorials a little bit, and maybe round them off instead of them being so squared.

Great work so far!

[Gkaine]

sorry for the late update, i had gotten distracted but i am now working it on fully again
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/collage5.jpg

[Triple G]

Wow....I forgot about this thread...

It's looking great, Gkaine...keep up the good work! When I look at this, I keep thinking "Sebulba", but that's not a bad thing, trust me. :buttrock: And plus, this guy looks like he could whoop Sebulba's butt! :cool:

The muscle definition looks very good, especially in the back area. Personally, I keep feeling like he needs a tail or something (don't remember what the original sketch looked like, sorry...I can't get the page to load that you linked to). Something in the rear to balance out that big, long, heavy neck and head. It'll be interesting to see how this progresses...keep going! :thumbsup:

[Pi3141]

Looking better with every post you make.

This thread is like one of those really long cool movies that keeps you in suspense, you can't wait to see what happens at the end ;)

I also agree with TripleG about the idea of a tail or balance out the characters long neck

Very cool work so far :beer:

[Aimes]

Looking great :applause: cant wait to see your next update :thumbsup:

[Gkaine]

smal update. sorry for size
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/collage6.jpg
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/updatedwire13.jpg

[oxyg3n]

I am thinking that his but looks to round and that his legs might be to big. They look like the could make walking difficult for this guy.

[Gkaine]

yup i totaly agree . i need to do alot of work on them

[Gkaine]

small update
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/collage7.jpg

[Gkaine]

im spending to much time getting caught up in the anatomy of this creature so im just going to start on armor for a bit and return to it once a little time has passed
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/collage8.jpg

[Chewey]

It's coming along very nicely I think.
I have been looking at this creation and it just dawned on me what it is about this guy that struck me as being a bit odd.

Having the neck placed as it is right now with it growing straight out from its chest makes it almost impossible for it to crawl on all fours and painful if it ever falls foward as the neck has no where to go unless it can flex backwards. Have you thought about having the neck transition out and upwards starting at the shoulders and then transition forward?

[Gkaine]

interesting idea chewey... im gona try it out

[Gkaine]

something like this ?
edit: ive already fixed that giant crease where the neck conects to the body.. u can see it in the perspective shot the worste.
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/collage9.jpg

[Chewey]

Yes, that's what I was referring to. Might juist make it easier to animate as well.
:thumbsup:

[Remi]

G....you've come a long way and it's progressing nicely....just a word of encouragement...keep it up:)

[Gkaine]

i keep gettin distracted away from this lol

here is an update i worked on tonight.... i still need to fix the anatomy of his legs.. they are mangled, but i feel like making armor ! so here is update of armor
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/124.jpg
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/125.jpg

[Gkaine]

busted out the rest of the armor this morning
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/135.jpg

[[TOY]Snoop]

This looks really nice. Maybe the legs are a little to short? Anyway, great job. It will look good on your demoreel.

Greets

[Remi]

Nice G....man...this really has turned into something now hasn't it.....texture that bad boy....I want to see him move too.:) Great work:)

[bluavenger]

You are a Myth! Great work! REAL FEAR! :buttrock:

[Gkaine]

thx guys. i am not a rigger tho so im not sure if hell be moving anytime soon;p

[Remi]

G...if you want i'll rig it for you:)....in my free time of course...which is almost non-existant:cry:

[leigh]

Looking great Gkaine :)

The back toe/claw thing looks a bit odd, but I perhaps you haven't finished that area yet.

[Gkaine]

thanks leigh and remi
remi do you have anywhere i can reach you at. like a some kindve instant messenger you use? PM me if you want to keep it a secret;)

[Pi3141]

HolyCrap this is looking cool!!

I'd love to see a closer render though :)

The legs look much better now too

:beer:

[Gkaine]

was playing around with normal maps. finaly made myself learn how to use them :P
anyway i reduced my model to 8000 tri's which is what i read doom 3 engine uses. here is what i came up with
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/lowrezcollage.jpg

[[TOY]Snoop]

Except for the wrists, everythings looks nice.
All is good :cool:

[Gkaine]

weapon update
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/141.jpg

[Gkaine]

i beleive im going to start trying to texture this now
here is an update on the weap
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/142.jpg

[Kvaalen]

Looks really cool!:thumbsup:

I'm wondering though about the normal mapping.
Usually the resaults look much... how should I say... better. :)
It still looks like a low poly object. Are you sure you got it right?
I may be wrong though. :hmm:

[Pi3141]

Oh wow, man this is looking awesome. I love the claw things on his arm. Reminds me of Vega

:beer:

[bluavenger]

GREAT MODEL!!!!!You are big sculptor :) !!!! Fear! :)

[oxyg3n]

@gkaine

Would you mind sharing with us how you went about creating the cloths around your character? I would really like to know how people are doing that.

[Gkaine]

thanks pi and bluavenger :beer:
kvaalen , i was just messing with it. it wasnt meant to be a really great render i just wanted a better understanding.

oxyg3n, its pretty easy, for a piece like the armor on his stomach i just
1.
copied his stomach poly's took them to another layer,
2.
did some adjusting, then flipped them,
3.
copied them, flipped them back to normal
4.
paste the copy into a new layer ,adjusted some more
5.
attacthed the 2 pieces together
6.
adjusted the oustide to look less like body and more like armor
7.
done!

now for the other parts i just straight modeled from scratch using my main model in the background as a guide for where things should go.

[T4D]

very cool model :drool:
missed this thread, sorry for coming late :D

[Gkaine]

sorry for the late update, had to get things ready in my portfolio to apply to schools, but since that is done i am back to work on my model.
t4d is so nice hes goin to rig it for me after i finish uv mapping !
i uv mapped past 2 days straight and i only ahve the head done . uv mapping is frustrating!
here is a shot of the face uv. if anyone knows where to get a good color grid with numbers so i can check stretching please post it here.
also the posed lizard shot is from an early version of t4d's amazing rig
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/UVSSHEAD.jpg
http://www.purgatory.net/acturus/145.jpg

[Triple G]

Here's a link to one I made a while ago:

http://home.comcast.net/~greggd/temp/uvgrid_small.jpg
Download zipped TGA file here (http://home.comcast.net/~greggd/temp/uvgrid.zip)

It's looking great so far, man....you've definitely come a long way with this one! :thumbsup:

[Miyazaki]

Cool model :applause:

[Kvaalen]

Originally posted by Gkaine
if anyone knows where to get a good color grid with numbers so i can check stretching please post it here.


I made a JavaScript script that does just that.
Check it here:

http://mapage.noos.fr/samuelLK/Resources.html

and some examples here:

http://mapage.noos.fr/samuelLK/Resources/UVGridGen/Examples.html

BTW, very cool model! I really like it!

[Gkaine]

thanks for the comments and maps guys.
this uv mapping is so frustrating im having a hard time controling my urge to punch the desk every5 minutes while im doing this:wip:

[LittleFenris]

Originally posted by Gkaine
thanks for the comments and maps guys.
this uv mapping is so frustrating im having a hard time controling my urge to punch the desk every5 minutes while im doing this:wip:

UVs will do that to you. Once you get the hang of them, they aren't QUITE as bad, but still not a fun thing. :) The model has come along VERY nicely BTW. :buttrock:

[samartin]

Looking very cool indeed, ain't seen this thread in ages so a nice surprise to see how things turned out...

only 1 minor crit and that's the back of his thighs look a lil' funny to me, but great work besides :thumbsup:

[Remi]

Keep crankin' there bud...it's coming along:)

[oxyg3n]

I am excited to see how your textures come out. I have been trying to uv a character of mine too and it is very difficult to get it to look correct.

[Gkaine]

thanks guys :beer:
its gonna be a little bit before i finish this guy i think, and yeah i got lazy with the back of the legs, im going to fix them before im done, im also going to make a better strap for the weapons to be attachted with.

[Gkaine]

finaly got rid of all stretching and mapped out. so i have begun to paint the colormap
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/4.jpg

[[TOY]Snoop]

I like the texture, but maybe it is better to first make a global texture, and afterwards make the details on the map. Or is this just a test for the texture? Good luck with it

Greets

:)

[Pi3141]

Looking very cool. Wow when this guy is fully textured and complete he will be quite an impressive character!

[Avrigus]

WOW! This is the kind of thread that I joined this forum for. Very inspiring and great to see your ongoing progress, keep up the fantastic work! :thumbsup:

[Gkaine]

thanks for the comments guys!
here is an update on the texture...i am kindve struggling with it. tell me if this looks right ? its just a color map
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/9.jpg

[Stoehr]

The color map looks good. Try not to solve all of the values in the color map, use the diffuse, specular, and the "shadows" of the bump create the values. Focus on hues in the color map.

My recommendation is to work on three or four channels at the same time, so you have a better sense of how it's developing.
Focus on the color, diffuse, specular, and bump. Once your fairly happy with those channels, then build in the translucency layers for the skin (combining the color and translucentcy). So on, and on.

Unwrapping is always the most difficult and slow part. Once you've unwrapped the head, I'd recommend focusing your attention on the head, then carry that learning experince to the rest of the body.

Looking forward to more!

[Gkaine]

thx stoehr :)
im takin all advice i can here because im so new to texturing. here is where im at
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/25.jpg

[[TOY]Snoop]

Looking good GKaine.
The texture on the lower lip is a bit stretched, but I guess u have seen it

:p

Greets

[Kvaalen]

Looks really cool!! I'm not very sure about the red color... looks too bright, and the textures look a little too clean. But then it is still a WIP. :)

Keep us posted.

[Gkaine]

the mask is just a shader i was messing with. not the final texture. im still on the face
and yeah i saw the stretchin, damn thing snuck in there!
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/53.jpg

[oxyg3n]

The transition from the face to the snout has a sharp edge. I am assuming that you have two separate maps that meet there. You can use an alpha map to blend the two together.

edit:

It looks like you updated your image while i was typing.

[Gkaine]

nope :) its all one map.
is this to shiny?
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/85.jpg

[Hellbring]

id say its just too uniformily shiney. The lips should be that shiney, the rest should be toned down.

[Gkaine]

i am having issues with my specularity map. i have made about 10 different ones to see whats up with this but nothing works.

when i adjust my specular percentage nothing happens. my specular could be 100% and it would come out the same as if i rendered it at 25%.

the only thing that does effect my specular is my glossiness percentage. is this normal? and when i take the spec map off, there is little difference in the render.

i have tried making more dominant spec maps, less dominant spec maps, more hard changes. nothing seems to make the percentage of the spec work.

[Kvaalen]

If you get rid of any texture on the specularity channel does changing the value still not make a difference? If it does than I'd change the layers optacity to what ever you want instead of the specularity value.

Sorry if you already tried that but it didn't seem obvious from your post if you did or not. :)

[Gkaine]

i did.
i change the opacity and nothing happens.
but if i remove it completely, the spec percentage then effects the model again.

[Gkaine]

i duno. i changed the gloss down to 25% here. maybe its the lighting. i turned down the key light for these renders here. the spec percentage still does nothing, but now the opacity lightens and darkens it.
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/96.jpg

[Gkaine]

wwell i am moving on for a little. ill come back to the head in a bit but i am not sure at all what to do witht he spec. here is an eye update
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/100.jpg

[Stoehr]

It's still very difficult to see the information of the texture.
The current lighting would work fairly well for the final passes of an animation, but for now, you need a lighting setup that help you examine what going on with the texture.

Firstly, changed the backdrop to a light tone, so the edges of the character don't get lost into the backdrop. OR, have two back lights, each at 150%, to highlight the upper edge and lower edge of the characters head.

I like where your guy is headed, but it's difficult to see your efforts.

The current lighting is forcing you to be dependent on the gloss to "see" the form of the model. The lighting is "flattening" the model. Re-examine your three point setup, and be sure Ambient intensity is 0% (and turn on Shading Noise Reduction, if you haven't already).

[Gkaine]

how do you change render backdrop color?

is this any better?

http://www.purgatory.net/joe/117.jpg

[Stoehr]

Yeah, that's lookin' better.

ctrl+F5 for backdrop.

[Gkaine]

thanks for the tips stoehr. you and pisong have been a giant help to me on this model

http://www.purgatory.net/joe/123.jpg

[Remi]

I go away for a week and check this out....100% improvement from what you were showing me last week G....great job and keep it up....glad to see you're getting the hang of things....looking forward to more updates from you...Blizzard here he comes:)

[Gkaine]

thx remi . u know just what to say to make me work more haha

im still trying to get the bump and spec and color correct on the face

http://www.purgatory.net/joe/141.jpg

[xtrm3d]

i am lurking around in this thread since the begini´ng ..
and was not really inspired to say anything ..
but the last rendering test .. are really.. awessome !!
you are on the right way to do something x-trm cool !!!:applause:

[Gkaine]

thanks xtrm3d im a big fan of your work and im very happy to get that responce from you:bowdown:

i have to do a side project of modeling a dragon but im going to continue working on this just i wont have my entire time to do so, so updates might be a bit slower

also here is a minor update to the feng concept
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/165.jpg

the dragon wip thread is here http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113920 if anyone is interested

[AndrewE]

I love the lips!

Good job man!

Turning out great!

Have you worked any more on the body?

[Remi]

I'm liking the teeth....a hebavor(sp) type setup....gives him alot of character just by adding those.....would love to see more from you G...no rush...finish what you need to....just waiting for more:)

Oh and one more thing.....Blizzard:D

[LittleFenris]

Wow, this model is going to be amazing once its done. :buttrock:

[cerreto]

ok im a lil latee to be posting but i dont get alot of time to browse !


your model has come along way and i notice your already texturing while i think your model is very good i would push you to go back ( i know it sucks ) and take a second look at some areas like the biceps triceps and legs not that they are bad but i think if you went over them a bit more and focused a bit more on the form your model would be even better they seem to be swollen ?


I noticed alot of your rework pics add and loose detail is this in your modeling or is it coming from working in and out of sub patch just curios ive noticed when i make a clean mesh in no sub d mode i often have less detail one of lw s only modeling snags i think




looking forward to seeing more !


Regrds
Trav

[Miroku]

This is coming along nicely, lets see some more!

[Gkaine]

ok guys thanks for allt he encouragement! i am coming close to finishing the dragon..just a little polishing to do..

so i am starting to finish this texturing job again. here is an update
i am having issues with UV seems ... not sure how to fix them yet

and cerreto i do work in and out of subpatch but if i took detail out i most likely wanted it gone. (ithink :D )
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/171.jpg

[Gkaine]

minor update
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/176.jpg

[Remi]

G...you're rockin bud...keep it up.....i'd like to see the specularity a bit more broken up on the body or maybe reduced a bit....maybe some dirt here and there or some dirty areas...if that makes sence...this really starting to turn out:) Great work:)

[LittleFenris]

I bet when this model is done it will be front page material for sure. Especially with a nice rig and posing. :buttrock:

[Gkaine]

thx remi :buttrock:

and i hope so vwtornado!

i am getting worried that i am rushing through this. i may take sometime to remodel some things tomorow instead of surface because the belts r so basic and stuff...when i think of the blizzard animations their clothes are so detailed.

http://www.purgatory.net/joe/193.jpg

[Gkaine]

heres an update.. i changed the lighting setup to just 1 area light instead of whati had before. i think it helps me see more, i might add a back light as well
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/203.jpg

[Remi]

G...I like the update on the legs...much better...turn down the spec on that guy though....it's really distracting....wait until you've painted your spec map....the color map is looking boss however...I like asymmetry of it....one more thing...since you're not really ever going to see his midsection/belly...get rid of the grooves there....hell..reduce the geometry there if you can...looking forward to more from you:)

[Gkaine]

thx remi. i worked on the spec alot today not sure if i nailed it tho

http://www.purgatory.net/joe/237.jpg

[Remi]

Yea buddy...that looks alot better. I would make the armour around his midsection leather. If it's metal the guy wont be able to breath with it so form fitting...and he won't be able to bend either. Just a thought. Great job..keep it up:)

Oh...and texture the dragon next:D

[Gkaine]

hmm yeah i originaly meant it to be leather but i was liking this look. but you make a good point, he wont be abel to bend. i will have to work on changing that.
im having difficulties getting the sheild blade to look right and its taking to long to finish it. so any suggestions are welcome

here is an update http://www.purgatory.net/joe/253.jpg

[Gatling]

Would look great with a specular map :)

[SPIDER2544]

for the leather texture stop by a fabric store and pick up some pleather for like 5 bucks a yard and scan that in and that should work out really well for you

also dont wory about the spec yet thats going to be kind of hard on a character liket this cause i would think that it would be kind of an outside creature that would get really dirty kinda like a cave trol (making it have almost no spec)

[Gkaine]

im gona attempt to redo the entire body cept the head and mask... if it dont work out ill then move onto the weapons and redo them.

[Gkaine]

well it didnt go as well as id hoped but this will have to do for now... i am going to take some time away from surfacing it and remodel the armor... maybe a week or so , so i can clear my head because right now i am just frustrated and waisting time
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/270.jpg

[Beechdbum]

you know if you do a search for the word ringling this thread comes up :D , well the modeling is great ive already told you that, but looks like your not to happy with your texture right now, so im going to give you your own advice, use reference and then take it a stop farther and exagerate it to your needs. i dont mean acc take photos and compile them into a texture, but to make this guy as believable as possible think about what he what look like if he acc existed. seems like its a dino/lizard type creature, primitive technology and warrior.


heres some pics i found, tell me if the links dont work

just thought these are some interesting lizards
lizard1 (http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB036110.jpg?size=572&uid={24e60d2b-8a68-4091-a7dd-bfec917cb748})
lizard 2 (http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH211290.jpg?size=67&uid={2c25f385-9bee-46c1-b64a-7ef8eb4ab7fd})
lizard3 (http://pro.corbis.com/images/MD004989.jpg?size=67&uid={2814ad69-927d-48fc-94a6-2cb2a4b698e1})
lizard4 (http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH116668.jpg?size=67&uid={c8c36386-fbc3-4843-870f-06b394e18b2a})

go to www.corbis.com for a great image search im sure ull find lots of good images there for reference, hope this helps some he got some big potentional if you can pull off the texture:thumbsup:

[Gkaine]

hey thx beech ;p us ringling apps gotta stick 2gether. and as for the lizard texture... hes not really a lizard, he was just a sketch from feng zhu, i mistakenly put that title on it when i was trying to figure out what it was.. but i think its just a random creature and dont think scales would look right on him.
i am in the process of remodeling the armor to get cleaner UV's and to make sure it works! remi had asked me how did he get that midrift piece on and what about the belts..there are no buckels on them, so i still have a bit of modeling to do before i realy tackel the textuers.

thanks for that link btw there is some great refrence ther

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