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Katachi
07-03-2010, 09:50 AM
Hi everyone,

I decided to make a forensic simulation on this one. Iīd like to see how well this can be executed when sticking close to the real thing and if such a setup is more flexible or even more restrictive.

Iīll be using Cinema 4D in conjunction with my own proprietary software again.

Good luck to everyone! :thumbsup:

joshfilms
07-03-2010, 05:21 PM
Hi Samir, I'm very much looking forward to the progress of your flame thrower. Especially since you picked the forensic simulation. Glad to see you are using Cinema 4D as well :).

Good luck!

-Josh

Katachi
07-04-2010, 01:52 PM
Here is my flamethrower setup.

http://www.dpit2.de/temp/fxwars/flamethrower_model.jpg

joshfilms
07-04-2010, 03:31 PM
Really nice model Samir.

-Josh

Katachi
07-04-2010, 04:32 PM
thx josh. Here is an update and with some of the parts opened up. Sparks are still missing.

http://www.dpit2.de/temp/fxwars/flamethrower_explosion.jpg

Katachi
07-04-2010, 06:13 PM
ignition fire simulation added.

http://www.dpit2.de/temp/fxwars/flamethrower_ignitionflame.mov

joshfilms
07-04-2010, 07:34 PM
The ignition flame is nice looking forward to the fuel pouring through it :).

-Josh

paulselhi
07-06-2010, 07:02 PM
I think you have too much chaotic detail in the ignition flame i would have thought it would be smoother, less detailed more like a slow flame from a burning object as opposed to a fast wood fire flame

Katachi
07-06-2010, 07:32 PM
I think you have too much chaotic detail in the ignition flame i would have thought it would be smoother, less detailed more like a slow flame from a burning object as opposed to a fast wood fire flame

Well, my reference is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dmE-emrrAs&feature=related

If you look closely you can see that the gas is streaming strongly out of the pistol and the ignition flame is very chaotic actually, so I guess Iīll keep it that way but thanks for your thoughts.

paulselhi
07-06-2010, 08:39 PM
That looks like residual fuel burning off not an ignition flame

Katachi
07-06-2010, 09:26 PM
That looks like residual fuel burning off not an ignition flame

I doubt it is residual fuel (at least too few to show up like this). The ignition gas is streaming out the whole time with this flamethrower model and it simply stays ignited. The fuel is also to heavy masswise to not leak downward if it was residual fuel which is not visible.

Anyway, the flame should naturally be more turbulent not only due to the boundary vicinity release (which alone should produce quite a lot turbulent behavior) but also due to the higher pressure that it is released under. Furthermore the fire must be hot enough to ignite the fuel so turbulence can be expected. The additional introduced wind and turbulences from the environment make a turbulent ignition more than likely. The ignition flame is more realistic if it is a turbulent flame too as the gas is not premixed so slow laminar flames are not really the expected behavior.

Anyway, look at the following movie: http://videosift.com/video/Mythbusters-Flamethrower-and-Slow-Motion
It clearly shows a turbulent ignition flame.

What is your reference to say it should be slow? Do you have a link that shows otherwise for this model? Iīd be interested to see it. thx

paulselhi
07-06-2010, 10:29 PM
OK your right and i am wrong

ErgunTech
07-07-2010, 09:55 AM
Nice model.
Good luck :)

Myzlo
07-07-2010, 05:57 PM
Nice start! So far nothing to comment on that hasn't already been said, just wondering your camera angles your going to use to help show off both the flamethrower breakdown and the simulation. Looking good, keep it up!

Katachi
07-09-2010, 12:34 PM
thx guys. Yeah Myzlo, I am not yet sure which road to go cam-wise. I have a lot of work currently but I hope I can get a roadmap done this weekend or maybe next week before I start with the actual flamethrowing setup. letīs see. :)

ComputedEmotion
07-09-2010, 03:40 PM
Nice start! I look forward to your progress, I'm sure we'll see EFFEX tested to its limit :)

Katachi
07-17-2010, 12:04 PM
ok, I will have some spare time from monday on so expect some serious progress next week. Yes, finally some time to work on this. :)

NahuelL
07-20-2010, 12:21 PM
Great ignition flame! ;)

Katachi
07-27-2010, 02:15 PM
ok, I have some time today, so I can at least get something done! I think however I have to switch to a freeform entry as it would eat up too much time making a forensic simulation now.

First spitting out the liquid fuel. Just a test for first experiments using my liquid simulator. I try to keep everything as physical as possible. Letīs see how far I can get with that. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwjoAaKsfPA

Katachi
07-27-2010, 05:29 PM
Just some wip vids playing with settings. Flames still too turbulent in themselves and smoke could use some better billowing. Also some more combustion expansion would add to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsdCL88SAok&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF6T9f_hWng&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHEidgE8Nlw

joshfilms
07-28-2010, 03:22 PM
Smoke is looking good and the liquid fuel is neat! Flames still need work as you said yourself they are to turbulent. Keep them coming :).

-Josh

Katachi
07-28-2010, 04:12 PM
thx josh! I have more time tonight to play with the setup.

ComputedEmotion
07-28-2010, 06:47 PM
That looks quite good already. Can this effect be achieved with the v1.0 version, or is this only possible with your v1.5? I tried to create the sort of liquid fuel effect you have here using SimpleParticles, but I couldn't get anything decent out of such a setup. At the moment I'm using Wind and FluidParticles, and although that works quite well, it will always create a more gassy flamethrower. I would love to be able to do something like what you have over here.

Katachi
07-28-2010, 07:01 PM
Yes, unfortunately the liquid fuel example is indeed only possible with v1.5. It is the new liquid simulator.

Using simple particles is however a good idea anyway! Here is a tip: Create an FSS FLuid modifier and use it as force in the simpleparticles emitter! This allows you to get some fluid motion into the rigid particles and for a flamethrower (where you mostly have a predefined direction) this should give you a good approximation!

Thatīs why I also suggest to not use fuel channel with simpleparticles. Let the simpleparticles act as fuel and therefore you can directly let them emit pressure (for combustion expansion) and heat for the flames (so only use the fire channel without fuel!).

Hope that helps :)

Katachi
07-29-2010, 12:10 PM
ok, new combustion model in use now. I think I like the motion of this one so itīs a good base for further detaling and corrections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4qXY68Mvnc

ComputedEmotion
08-04-2010, 08:11 PM
That looks quite good!. I look forward to the finetuning.

I tried using simple particles, but couldn't really get the fire to move along with the particles. I achieved a few things that were okay, but nothing as good as my other setup. So in the end I sticked with the original setup because I find it visually more appealing. Did learn a lot about simple particles though, so time well spent ;)

Katachi
08-10-2010, 12:23 AM
I know I am pretty much too late now but I still want to finish this even if itīs not in time. So here is another progress.

I rendered another fuel simulation, more radical this time, and then used it for the combustion. Not the whole simulation yet though. I will render it overnight.

Fuel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vCWOvDbTJI
Combustion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMwfkHLljmE

ivanisavich
08-10-2010, 12:42 AM
Fire looks great....hopefully you can finish on time? Still several more hours left!!

Katachi
08-10-2010, 12:51 AM
Fire looks great....hopefully you can finish on time? Still several more hours left!!

thanks! Well, I am sitting in germany, itīs almost 3 a.m. and I really need to listen to my eyes and go to sleep now :) so I donīt think I can make it on time. But thatīs fine. It was a good challenge I think with great entries available and definetly educational. But Iīll post my results then.

joshfilms
08-10-2010, 01:06 AM
Samir, the last render is most excellent! Flame and smoke look awesome. You are certainly onto to something there :).

Katachi
08-10-2010, 11:12 AM
thx josh. :)

RobertoOrtiz
08-10-2010, 02:29 PM
Nice Entry
please do post it here:
FXWars Flame Thrower: Post your FINAL entry (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=139&t=908980)

Katachi
08-11-2010, 12:14 AM
This is my final simulation. Unfortunately I have no more time to tweak anything or for post work. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cTlu1GhX-g

joshfilms
08-11-2010, 12:17 AM
Nice that you got it finished! You certainly made improvements through out your tests.

-Josh

Katachi
08-12-2010, 01:52 PM
thanks josh. Yeah, I wish Iīve had more time to work on this but well, who doesnīt (except for tysons who do not need more than some days :) )

Anyway, here is my updated final: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXFsjqmQ9uk

RobertoOrtiz
09-02-2010, 11:26 AM
Just an FYI

The next challenge will go live in ONE Week. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=139&t=915982)
\\Hope you will join us.

-R

RobertoOrtiz
09-10-2010, 04:23 AM
I do hope you will join us on our next challenge:

CgTalk:FXWars! Dambusters! - Challenge:31 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=139&t=917887)

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