eye socket modelling problem

[gnarlycranium]

What I've found, in modeling ths bit, is that it's much deeper than you might originally think. Don't be afraid to center the eye properly in the socket and then push the inner corner into the head pretty far to get the amount of white on the in-side to match the amount on the out-side.

As for the actual modeling method... it's really not that tough. Just bring the eyelids to a point, and fill in the corner with some more faces, push them back, and pull out a lump in the corner, and a kind of rim next to the eyeball.

[MRAY]

Hi Gnarly, glad to have your help on this one!

as for the part you said "Don't be afraid to center the eye properly in the socket and then push the inner corner into the head pretty far to get the amount of white on the in-side to match the amount on the out-side."

i'm not really understanding what you mean here.

sorry.

Also does any of the eye socket geometry actually
go through the actual eyeball or is it modeled to just rest on the eyeball?

thanks for your help!

[gnarlycranium]

Originally posted by MRAY
as for the part you said "Don't be afraid to center the eye properly in the socket and then push the inner corner into the head pretty far to get the amount of white on the in-side to match the amount on the out-side."


Okay, I guess that IS a bit wacky to understand.. so hard to explain without being able to show you.

Basically... when you model eyes, especially if they're supposed to be accurate, you'll end up with a symmetry problem. Characters tend to end up crosseyed. Once you've arranged the outer corner of the eye, there's a tendency to scootch the eyeball inwards so it doesn't stick out through the eyelid. Then the outer side of the eye has a lot more room than the inner side does-- the iris when it's facing directly ahead is too close to the middle. When you pull the inner corner closer to the center of the face to fix that problem, the place where the pink duct spot goes sinks farther back into the head. It can seem way too deep to you while you're working on it... but to an extent that's alright. Symmetry is important so the eye doesn't end up crosseyed. Or worse, sometimes people ROTATE the eye outward to center the iris in the eye opening, which makes the character look kinda like a fish.

Is that a clearer explanation or did I just make things worse?:curious:



As for geometry intersecting and so forth... I dunno how most people do it, but I find it impossible to sit the eyelid edges directly ON the eyeball surface, so I just push them through and into it a little to make sure there aren't any gaps.

[MRAY]

Hey Gnarly,

Ok got it thanks for explaining! My only other question is
where to place this tearduct?

i've attached a little pic so you could see what i mean,
would it be on the green, red, or yellow?

Oh and the geometry going through the eyeball-----
------THANK GOD!!!------ I've been tryng to match the complete
roundness of the eyeball to try to have it looking like its snug in the socket couldn't do it. i've been racking my brain for a while now tryng to figure out how people do it.

guess they don't- hehe.

Thanks again Gnarly!

[gnarlycranium]

Originally posted by MRAY
Oh and the geometry going through the eyeball-----
------THANK GOD!!!------ I've been tryng to match the complete
roundness of the eyeball to try to have it looking like its snug in the socket couldn't do it.

Heheheh, I know the feeling-- it can't be done, dood. At least, not without some nifty program that would let you stick the vertices you're moving around directly TO the eyeball surface.

Oh and even THEN you still have to deal with the bulge of the cornea and so forth when animating-- the ONLY way to get the eyelid to properly stick and slide along the surface of the eyeball as it should is probably through some heavy control work.... I don't animate yet, so I don't know how, but it can't just be manual, lining up the surface yourself with oodles of little morph targets... uhuh. Brrr! :argh:

As for your question-- I'm not quite sure why you have 2 rows of edges on the inside of that eyelid, seems like it would just be more clutter to worry about. It's good to keep everything minimal. So I'd say where the red is... and just lose the row the green is attached to, at least for now.

Due to limited HD space, I don't currently have access to my head models-- but I'll try to scribble you an example of how I do it.

This is just a doodle in PSP. The reddish area is the duct spot, and it's a sunken area. The edges in green show the layout of where I would select a poly, extrude it a bit, and then scale the poly down. This representation is much flatter than the model would be, so you can see the mesh clearly-- the extruded bit in the corner would stick out quite a bit, pulled to the left. The extruded bit on the inside, next to the eyeball, would be pulled directly forward. The idea is, after meshsmooth, the bit in the corner will be a lump, and the bit on the left will be a little rim or flap next to the eyeball itself. Then later you'd make another layer of stuff over that whole area for the wetness, which is another issue entirely. :cool:

[gnarlycranium]

Here's an example of an eye I've made, though it's a little out of date and not finished-- you can kinda see in there the result.... there's no wetness layer, I haven't gotten around to that craziness yet.

http://www.gnarlycranium.com/tutorials/ELfinal02.jpg

[MRAY]

Thanks Gnarly!

Your eyes are nice!

About the eyeball socket and the eyeball it would be nice if there
was something that would make the eyeball an actual piece of
solid geometry so that it could push on the surrounding vertices.

Oh BTW whats your method on mdelling your eyeballs?

Thanks!

[gnarlycranium]

Originally posted by MRAY
About the eyeball socket and the eyeball it would be nice if there was something that would make the eyeball an actual piece of solid geometry so that it could push on the surrounding vertices.

That's exactly what I mean by heavy controls. That 'something' you're talking about would either be a plugin or something else smart and very involved. I myself was pretty surprised when I started to really figure out how MAX works-- there are some things it's really powerful at, but a whole ton of things you need plugins and so forth to deal with. Look in the SubD thread for more examples of such issues.


Oh BTW whats your method on mdelling your eyeballs?


I make a sphere, I point it to the front, I clip off the front end where the iris goes, flip that around so it's concave, reattach it, chamfer the edge around the iris so it isn't so sharp, and then I make a very slightly bigger sphere around the whole thing with a bulge for the cornea on the front, and give that a clear shiny material. Voila. I make sure the eyeballs are facing exactly to the front, with 1 eyeball of space between them for positioning. I also practice heavily with photo reference whenever I do head modeling.

(The iris map itself that you see in my example is one of Julian_J's maps that he offers for download on his website, good stuff-- cept they're Maya style maps so it takes a bit of tweaking.)

[MRAY]

hey Gnarly!

yeah i know what you mean, max kicks ass but it does lack some simple things that would make our work a bit easier.

BTW the theoretical sub-D thread was an amazing help, i started reading it months ago and still check it almost everyday~

The topology thread in modelling is really good too.

i'm actually looking for a script writer to talk to about some stuff i have in mind.

oh and about the eye that's pretty much the way i do mine :)

Well again, thanks so much for your help!

Talk soon!

[gnarlycranium]

Originally posted by MRAY
yeah i know what you mean, max kicks ass but it does lack some simple things that would make our work a bit easier.

BTW the theoretical sub-D thread was an amazing help, i started reading it months ago and still check it almost everyday

I need to get back into that one, heh it's so long that losing online access for a month or so has me totally outta touch... really looking forward to 3DZ's digest, myself.


The topology thread in modelling is really good too.

I think I'll be putting quite a bit of that material into my head modeling tutorial, hope I can make something useful with it.

i'm actually looking for a script writer to talk to about some stuff i have in mind.
That's a fabulous idea.


Glad to be of service!

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