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KillahPriest
06-26-2010, 08:44 PM
I am going to put together a game character for my reel. Hopefully you guys can give feedback so I can work on improving it.

Here's where I'm at so far. Game mesh is 3500 polys.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198871

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198872

And some test renders.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200643

I'm having problems with the textures and getting areas that look blocky, I'm not sure why though.

Tombob
06-27-2010, 12:13 AM
as for the modeling i think for a first char you'v done a decent job,
the texture is the problem, i think its missing some depth, the viens and nipples especially look too flat on the skin.
if its for games i think simple bump map will do,
could use displacement, but it might be an overkill.
i am not too expirienced myself, but its a bit flat and for me it jumps right out.
the texture around the neck-torso sim, also jumps out, could be a UV problem.
i do like your modeling, it has a heavy feel to it,
good polycount for a game as well.

(would be nice if you add which software you are using)

mister3d
06-27-2010, 12:45 AM
I think the model is pretty good. The specular map definitely must be less uniform, and not shine like a cg-shader. Then some bump could help. The eyes need a special attention: make them wet, shiny and place accented reflections to catch the viewer's eye.

KillahPriest
06-28-2010, 08:46 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys. I really want to push this the furthest I can.

as for the modeling i think for a first char you'v done a decent job,
the texture is the problem, i think its missing some depth, the viens and nipples especially look too flat on the skin.
if its for games i think simple bump map will do,
could use displacement, but it might be an overkill.
i am not too expirienced myself, but its a bit flat and for me it jumps right out.
the texture around the neck-torso sim, also jumps out, could be a UV problem.
i do like your modeling, it has a heavy feel to it,
good polycount for a game as well.

(would be nice if you add which software you are using)

I'm having a lot of problems with the texturing. I actually do have a bump map, but I tried to make it subtle. The right areas didn't seem to be popping. Maybe I need to play with the layers some more. Here's what I'm using.

http://img576.imageshack.us/i/abebump5small.jpg/

I'm also having another problem, but I'm not sure what it is. It looks fine from the front, but I get this. Is it a UV problem?

http://img571.imageshack.us/i/abeuv.jpg/

I am using Maya, Bodypaint, Zbrush, and Photoshop.

I think the model is pretty good. The specular map definitely must be less uniform, and not shine like a cg-shader. Then some bump could help. The eyes need a special attention: make them wet, shiny and place accented reflections to catch the viewer's eye.

I haven't started on the eyes yet, but I've been trying to tweak the body's specular map. Here's what I have (that was on the model in that picture). Maybe my settings are wrong?

http://img203.imageshack.us/i/abespecular5.jpg/

Tombob
06-29-2010, 06:02 AM
i dont know much about zbrush, but i am sure you can make different bump layers like in mudbox,
the image you posted on your last post are bad links, so i cant see what you are showing, but i am sure you can emphasis some areas with bump map without having to resorting to hier mesh or displacement.

my suggestion, if the nipples are sitting on a vertex push it a bit up, and a strengthen the bump both on them and the veins,
from your first image, i dont see any detail on the bump for the veirns.
it doesnt have to be to strong, do it subtle and it will make a huge difference.

(please repost the new images)

KillahPriest
06-29-2010, 06:18 PM
i dont know much about zbrush, but i am sure you can make different bump layers like in mudbox,
the image you posted on your last post are bad links, so i cant see what you are showing, but i am sure you can emphasis some areas with bump map without having to resorting to hier mesh or displacement.

my suggestion, if the nipples are sitting on a vertex push it a bit up, and a strengthen the bump both on them and the veins,
from your first image, i dont see any detail on the bump for the veirns.
it doesnt have to be to strong, do it subtle and it will make a huge difference.

(please repost the new images)

I'm not sure why the images didn't work when I uploaded them here.

I worked on the specularity and fixed what was giving me problems (The subdermal map was done off different UVs). I can't seem to create more height in the bump map, though.

I think I'm getting there. I may still need work on the specular and bump though.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154521&stc=1

and my bump map.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154511&stc=1

I've heard it's best not to use a standard T pose for demo reels though. Should I throw together a quick rig and pose him?

Tombob
06-30-2010, 01:58 AM
as for the bumpmap, you can alway edit the map in photoshop and brighten the veins with the dodge tool, it will give them more depoth.
i like the spec map more,
doesnt have that shader feel to it anymore

Kanga
07-03-2010, 03:20 AM
I've heard it's best not to use a standard T pose for demo reels though. Should I throw together a quick rig and pose him?
I wouldnt rig him if you arnt planning to animate the character, just use transpose master it does a good job.

Nothing is popping because your bump map is set too low.

Tasp
07-03-2010, 03:36 PM
Nice job on finishing your first character! I can't help much with the maps you've got on it but I do feel like the anatomy could use a little tweaking.

If the way you have him currently posed is supposed to be the "relaxed" position I think you should re-think it. With the legs that compressed and so much bulk in the shoulders and belly the critter would have to exert a massive amount of energy to walk. I'd suggest extending the legs from the compressed position and looking up some animal reference. You will see that this sort of compressed stance is not normal for that type of leg configuration unless something is in a landing, or crouching position. You mentioned you might pose it so this might be a moot point, just something that stood out to me.

MrFunk
07-04-2010, 06:05 PM
well...as this is a game model i think you should put a little more effort in a good uv layout...right now youre wasting a lot of uv space and the texture looks rather symmetrical to me, so you actually could mirror the uvs to get the best result with a really small texture size. but maybe youre going to do some armor or weapon and are going to need the uv space for them :)

the modeling looks solid to me, but i think it could use some more/better muscle definition.
you maybe should play with his neck a little, see how it behaves when you pose the char.

Kanga
07-04-2010, 10:08 PM
Just a question.

Are you using normal maps? The sculpt has way more form than the end product. Are you smoothing the mesh? There is something strange happening, looks like you missed a part of the process.

KillahPriest
07-05-2010, 06:41 PM
as for the bumpmap, you can alway edit the map in photoshop and brighten the veins with the dodge tool, it will give them more depoth.
i like the spec map more,
doesnt have that shader feel to it anymore

Thanks for the advice. I used the dodge tool to brighten some areas, but it's still difficult for me to get things to pop.

I wouldnt rig him if you arnt planning to animate the character, just use transpose master it does a good job.

Nothing is popping because your bump map is set too low.

I'm not sure why. Either things are too subtle or too deformed. I can't seem to find a balance.

Nice job on finishing your first character! I can't help much with the maps you've got on it but I do feel like the anatomy could use a little tweaking.

If the way you have him currently posed is supposed to be the "relaxed" position I think you should re-think it. With the legs that compressed and so much bulk in the shoulders and belly the critter would have to exert a massive amount of energy to walk. I'd suggest extending the legs from the compressed position and looking up some animal reference. You will see that this sort of compressed stance is not normal for that type of leg configuration unless something is in a landing, or crouching position. You mentioned you might pose it so this might be a moot point, just something that stood out to me.

I looked up some references and you're right. I'm playing around with the pose now.

well...as this is a game model i think you should put a little more effort in a good uv layout...right now youre wasting a lot of uv space and the texture looks rather symmetrical to me, so you actually could mirror the uvs to get the best result with a really small texture size. but maybe youre going to do some armor or weapon and are going to need the uv space for them :)

the modeling looks solid to me, but i think it could use some more/better muscle definition.
you maybe should play with his neck a little, see how it behaves when you pose the char.

I used UVmaster in Zbrush to do the UVs. I may take them into Headus UVLayout if the results would be better doing them by hand?

For game characters everything has to be on one texture map?

Just a question.

Are you using normal maps? The sculpt has way more form than the end product. Are you smoothing the mesh? There is something strange happening, looks like you missed a part of the process.

Are you supposed to smooth the mesh? I assumed you were (so I did), but I could be wrong?

This has been my process so far.

1. Base mesh.
2. Sculpt.
3. Retopologize.
4. UVs
5. Normal/Bump Maps
5. Paint textures
6. Lighting/Shaders

Kanga
07-05-2010, 09:20 PM
Are you supposed to smooth the mesh? I assumed you were (so I did), but I could be wrong?

This has been my process so far.

1. Base mesh.
2. Sculpt.
3. Retopologize.
4. UVs
5. Normal/Bump Maps
5. Paint textures
6. Lighting/Shaders
Aw eek,.. nooooo smoothing! Now I see what it is. Your normal maps arnt working. You really dont need bump maps for a game character, at most a finer additional normal map but that isnt necessary. If you build the cadge properly and bake good maps you can get the same ammount of detail overall (more when you use occlusion) and only the silhouette will be a little blocky.

Your subdividing smoothing algo is sucking all the character out of your sculpt/mesh. Poly economy states no sub divide, different to hi poly animations.

Show me the normal maps brother!

MrFunk
07-06-2010, 05:44 PM
how big are your textures right now? a good size to aim for would be 2k i think.
i would definitively do some better uvs... at least laying them out by hand. just try to use the uv space as good as possible.
you can then easily transfer your diffuse texture to the new uvs with xnormal.

you could also try to study all the dominance wars finals...helped me a lot in understanding game art in general and effective use of uv space.

KillahPriest
07-06-2010, 09:16 PM
Aw eek,.. nooooo smoothing! Now I see what it is. Your normal maps arnt working. You really dont need bump maps for a game character, at most a finer additional normal map but that isnt necessary. If you build the cadge properly and bake good maps you can get the same ammount of detail overall (more when you use occlusion) and only the silhouette will be a little blocky.

Your subdividing smoothing algo is sucking all the character out of your sculpt/mesh. Poly economy states no sub divide, different to hi poly animations.

Show me the normal maps brother!

Whoops haha. I got rid of the bump, fixed the UVs and did a new normal map.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154635

how big are your textures right now? a good size to aim for would be 2k i think.
i would definitively do some better uvs... at least laying them out by hand. just try to use the uv space as good as possible.
you can then easily transfer your diffuse texture to the new uvs with xnormal.

you could also try to study all the dominance wars finals...helped me a lot in understanding game art in general and effective use of uv space.

Wow the dominance war finalists are insane. The UV map has no empty space. My new long term goal is to win one.

Here is my new UV'd texture (2k)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154634

Kanga
07-06-2010, 11:34 PM
Now thats looking better, now the model should have that sculpt look you put that work into. When I said no smoothing I meant no sub d modifier or whatever it is in your app, you still need a smoothing group on your polys, one is usually enough depending on the engine.

KillahPriest
07-10-2010, 11:28 PM
I'll post updates when I get home, but I have another question.

I was working on a prop, but have no idea how to make it a different material. For a game, everything has to be one material and in one UV space? How would I assign the SSS shader to his body and a blinn to a weapon while keeping it one mesh?

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