PDA

View Full Version : HMC #26 Frazetta Tribute - The Destroyer


GerR
06-26-2010, 10:15 AM
I accept your challenge Roberto. :D

Okay this is going to be loads of fun. I'm going to be working almost constantly on this so I should be able to get this done. And if I have time, I will unwrap and texture this too.

http://www.wizards-keep.com/graphics/RTE/RTEPage-003_The_Destroyer.jpg

I don't want this first post to have nothing in it because I already started working. So here is what I have so far.

I made a base mesh that I am going to use for all of the characters, and I brought it in to zbrush to push the form around a bit faster. It seems to be working well, so I shouldn't have to retop anything later, which is nice. I'll get this guy to match the main character first and then go into working on the weapons, shields, and helmets.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6237/quickbasemesh.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6237/quickbasemesh.jpg)

The anatomy is still a little off and some parts are out of proportion, but that will be fixed when I start to shape it based on the picture. (keep messing up the knee placement when I try to shape the vastus muscles and the gastrocnemius is too big, among other things...)

Can't wait to see what everyone else is doing. I love Franks stuff, so much of it can be made into awesome sculpts.

d8D
06-27-2010, 02:12 AM
Quite a challenge! Are you doing the whole thing?

:thumbsup:

GerR
06-27-2010, 03:01 AM
Well I will try for at least 3 characters but I really want to do all of it. It really depends on how fast I can get through it.

nsb
06-27-2010, 04:01 AM
Yer! Glad someone took up the challenge. :)

TheRazorsEdge
06-27-2010, 08:17 AM
Heaps of work ahead of you. Best of luck!:)
Looking forward to your progress.

Cheers!

}-{obbes
06-27-2010, 07:22 PM
Keep in mind that only the main character's face is visible, so if you're recreating the painting, you can save time by not worrying about the extra's faces too much.

GerR
06-27-2010, 07:28 PM
Keep in mind that only the main character's face is visible, so if you're recreating the painting, you can save time by not worrying about the extra's faces too much.

Ya that is one of the good things. I am doing a layout sculpt right now to get the relative positions of all of the characters down and there is a lot of stuff that I am going to be able to make up because of occlusion. I'm going to try to finish the layout either today or tomorrow, and then position the various models accordingly.

GerR
06-27-2010, 09:31 PM
Okay, this is probably as far as I am going to take my layout sculpt. There are still some problems that I can see with some characters not completely in the right position, but it is pretty close for now.

I'm going to move a couple base meshes into place and see how it looks after a bit of sculpting.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1/layoutex.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1/layoutex.jpg)

GerR
06-28-2010, 09:24 AM
I don't know if embedding a video in a post is possible here since I haven't seen it done so I'll just post a link.

This is a turntable of my progress so far.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4369/zbrushmovie.mp4

I'm almost done positioning Conan, but there is still quite a bit left to do for sculpting the muscles and the face. I haven't really worked on getting the face to match up with the painting yet so it is pretty off.

Here is a side by side of Conan in his lunge.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1643/position1i.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1643/position1i.jpg)

I just made up the left leg, so I'm partial to suggestions on alternate positions. It seems to work fine now though.

WyattHarris
06-28-2010, 04:48 PM
You're going to have to do that on a few of these hidden pieces. The center of gravity looks good. Maybe a little more to the right. I would plant his toes a bit more.

GerR
06-28-2010, 09:46 PM
I had figured that he was in mid jump but I think that planting his foot might work too. I'll leave it the way it is for now and try planting it after I have at least 2 more characters in the scene with him.

GerR
06-29-2010, 06:42 AM
Okay, I got a second character positioned. He looks a little bit weird because he is being forced back by the guy in front of him which isn't there yet. I tried to give him a leg position that would make it look like he is being pressed back by the guy falling on him. He is supposed to be falling back and to the left a little bit so I think it is pretty close. I will probably tweak it later on though when I get the other guy in tomorrow.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9030/twopeople.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9030/twopeople.jpg)

2 down, 8 to go!

Oh and ignore the faces, they are more just place holders till I work on them (probably near the end).

DDS
06-29-2010, 07:19 AM
looks like it's coming along really well. Nice!

Maybe try and overlay your layout sculpt to the ref pic in photoshop. Right now it seems that Conan is slightly off to our left.

GerR
06-29-2010, 06:43 PM
Yeah, the layout is off in a few places. It was just meant as an exercise to help me get the locations of all the people in 3d blocked in a quick way so that I could visualize the scene better.

Here is an overlay with the problem areas circled. I did one for the layout and the posed characters.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3779/layoutoverlay.jpg (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3779/layoutoverlay.jpg)

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1402/twooverlay.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1402/twooverlay.jpg)

Lack of the other characters kind of throws it off.

WyattHarris
06-29-2010, 08:03 PM
Cool, from the side view I see what the jumping pose looks like now. Forget what I said, the toes are fine. :D

NJA3d
06-30-2010, 02:44 PM
hey man nice work so far, great authenticity with the original painting! :)
i will keep my eye on this one!

Vanja

GerR
06-30-2010, 08:33 PM
Thank you very much Vanja. Staying authentic gives me a better appreciation for the skill that really went into this which is astounding.

I've been playing around with the right arm of the guy in the middle of the two that I already positioned. It was really giving me trouble for a couple reasons...

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8123/macearm.jpg
(kind of crappy drawing...)
Where the arm is that I have drawn in, I thought that the middle guy's hand might have been the one that was holding the mace since it seemed to be in the general area of where his arm would realistically reach. It turns out that his entire body would have to be rotated in order for his fist to be able to fit in that position because the wrist angle is so extreme.

I also was trying to get him to fall on a larger area of the guy behind him. I was turning the body and rotating the right arm so that his back would be able to fit the angle on the rear guy's arm. That really didn't work out because of the angle that the rear guy's shield needs to be. Also, on closer inspection, the cloth draped on the center guy's back isn't stretched or pressed to indicate pressure that close to the visible region.

His pose looks a little bit weird now though because I had to find a location that the arm could be in realistically and not interfere with the visible space. I also had to move the legs to a better position to give him proper balance and a controlled fall in the right direction.

Oh, and hes being bashed in the jaw with Conan's shield if you couldn't tell.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3913/threefrontback.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3913/threefrontback.jpg)
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/2722/threeside.jpg (http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/2722/threeside.jpg)

There are still some anatomy problems on him right now, but I am just sick of working with him. I'm going to move on to the next character.

GerR
07-01-2010, 09:02 AM
Okay, another update for you guys. I just finished up the fourth character's positioning and did some rough anatomy work on him, so it's decent enough for now. I still have to fix his chest/stomach area because it looks awkward (and a bit too stuck out), but that can be done much later.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5879/fourthangles.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5879/fourthangles.jpg)

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7588/fourfrontback.jpg (http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7588/fourfrontback.jpg)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1908/fourside.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1908/fourside.jpg)

These last 2 really show a problem that I was aware I would have to deal with from the beginning. The ground plane in the image isn't exactly a ground plane. The characters farther away are not at the same ground angle as the ones toward the front. Of course the ones that I already have in there (the second and third to go in) were not on the right plane with regard to their footing. I just did that to make things simpler for me till I was able to get more characters into the scene to more accurately calculate the ground angle.

The problem with having one ground plane is that the character in the back left and back right would not be able to physically exist, and the problem with just making a hill in the center to compensate for the shift in angle means that the balance of the characters on the ground in the front is going to be thrown off a little. There is also a problem with parts in the front falling beneath the ground where it wouldn't possibly happen such as on the bottom right of the painting (feet and shield).

I will end up creating a ground plane after I get 3 more of the 6 characters I have left. It will combine putting a hill in the middle with large breaks to compensate for the other character's positions.

Lionbrush
07-01-2010, 11:19 AM
Very nice so far!

TiMrozek
07-01-2010, 02:45 PM
Really awesome start. Quite the dynamic pose so far, you seem to be interpreting the 2D to 3D pretty well. Best of luck as you progress.

WyattHarris
07-01-2010, 03:08 PM
Doesn't necessarily have to be a hill. You could just break the ground up in spots like furrows. There could also be objects or bodies piling up at the front line of the battle.

GerR
07-02-2010, 12:33 AM
Thanks Tim and Hajeer.

Yeah Wyatt, I was also thinking of some kind of furrow breakup too. We shall see when I get there.

GerR
07-02-2010, 09:49 PM
Another update. I planned to post last night but but my internet connection went down.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3825/fiveangles.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3825/fiveangles.jpg)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4484/fivefront.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4484/fivefront.jpg)
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3981/fiveside.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3981/fiveside.jpg)

I think I need to widen his hips a little bit by bringing the right leg over farther. I made him look like he tripped over the foot of the unconscious/dead guy next to him.

It seems to be starting to come together more. I've already started working on the next character (the guy with the axe stuck in his back). Not much to say this time. Back to work.

GerR
07-03-2010, 10:33 AM
New update. Just finished another character. Doing this posing is getting very repetitive, but at least I am getting faster. It will be nice to be done so I can move on to refining the anatomy.
I can't tell if the axe that is above/behind this guy is actually stuck in his back or if it was knocked out of his hands like the helmet was knocked off his head. I'm going to say that it is stuck in his back and see how it works out.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5875/sixangles.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5875/sixangles.jpg)
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7043/sixfront.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7043/sixfront.jpg)
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2743/sixside.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2743/sixside.jpg)

It looks like I got a little bit off when I started to form the deltoid on the right shoulder. I'll fix that later. I didn't want to spend much time working on detailing the back muscles at this point. Thats why they are non-existent. (butt crack too :shrug: )

Another update when I get the next guy done.

Any critiques of the poses so far? Want to see any other kind of progress image layout?

spideyman
07-04-2010, 12:10 AM
You have some crazy interpretation and observation skills. I'm doing a The Moon Maiden myself and I'm struggling with that. May I ask how are you going to further define the models?

Do you have the character poses as different layers or you just plan to sculpt them asymmetrically?

GerR
07-04-2010, 01:35 AM
Thanks Stoyan. Well, right now there is very little definition of the muscle structure. I am going to back in on each character and define the define the musculature more so that it looks natural for the position. It is currently only at the point of detail needed to make the bring across the general forms of the poses.

I am actually not working with layers right now. I didn't make a zsphere rig for positioning and all of the characters had to have their entire bodies resized to get the right proportions for all the characters. It would just make it hard trying to go back and forth for positioning and getting the muscle structure to fit. So yeah, I just decided to do everything asymmetrically. It is a lot slower, but I think it can be more accurate for positioning muscles.

If I was working on a character of my own design, they had a lot of clothing, or it didn't have to match the reference, then I would almost definitely be working with the positions in layers.

spideyman
07-04-2010, 02:05 AM
Yes, it makes sense. But how are you going to approach the heads and faces? It's tedious enough for the bodies but modelling a head in a non neutral position I find almost impossible because of the high symmetry requirements.

GerR
07-04-2010, 03:24 AM
Oh yeah, no question. But, most of the faces are blocked out with general proportions still intact. I usually only use symmetry mode when blocking out a face and getting the general structure right and then go into finer musculature and medium to fine detail in asymmetry. A lot of the sculpting that I do is in clay, so I'm a bit more used to not having symmetry than I used to be. It is certainly hard to get something perfect looking, but that really breaks the illusion of reality anyway.

Basically I just like the challenge because I feel it helps me improve quicker. ;)

GerR
07-04-2010, 03:23 PM
New guy for you all. Still some problems on him that I need to fix (big right butt cheek), but I am really just trying to get all of these into position at this point. It's getting pretty tiring trying to match these guys up with the reference. I'll still keep too it though. Only 3 more to go till I can go back over everything and refine the positions and anatomy in prep for more detailed sculpting.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9378/sevenangles.jpg (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9378/sevenangles.jpg)
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4365/sevenfront.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4365/sevenfront.jpg)
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2323/sevenside.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2323/sevenside.jpg)

still not sure about the pose of this guy, but I guess it doesn't really matter too terribly. He fits in where he is supposed to and doesn't look extremely unnatural (even with the problems I see now that I took a break and haven't been staring at it for so long - ahh the shoulder is so off! :banghead: ). Should be fine. :shrug:

There are 3 or 4 other characters in the scene that are only showing a single limb that I am not planning on doing. I will probably include the parts disembodied in the final beauty render, though, along with the background weapons.

DDS
07-05-2010, 10:55 PM
this is starting to get quite insane. The composition is kicking ass!

ryankittleson
07-06-2010, 05:56 AM
Nice expressiveness in the dying bodies! I kind of like the rough pass where they're all in one mesh.

nsb
07-06-2010, 11:17 AM
Great progress. I think the first two guys in front should be exaggerated alittle bit more - in the painting it looks like they are really being thrown back from his charge.I think your going the right way about this one - work at it as a whole and slowly chisle out each pose, only sculpt whats seen and will save you heaps of time :)

GerR
07-06-2010, 11:59 AM
Thanks a lot guy.

Yeah I think your right nsb. I was going to have to tweak the footing on those two anyway so I'll play with the depth of the lower lower body a bit to see what kind of changes I can get later on. Thanks for the tip.

I really don't think I have the power in Conan's pose represented well either. All of this will be getting a revisit, so I'll definitely try to change some stuff around (to the extent I can).

mancubus
07-06-2010, 12:12 PM
You have choose very challenging piece, but so far from what I can see you are doing great . I really like how you slowly populate the scene and filling it with posed characters. Just realised how heavy the scene could be at the end. No critics from me so far, I defenetely will pay attention to this one. Thumbs up!

WyattHarris
07-06-2010, 07:41 PM
Just watching your progress and ditto what everyone else is saying. You're doing a good job keeping it all straight so far.

TonyClifton
07-06-2010, 07:56 PM
...even with the problems I see now that I took a break and haven't been staring at it for so long - ahh the shoulder is so off! :banghead: ). Should be fine. :shrug:

There are 3 or 4 other characters in the scene that are only showing a single limb that I am not planning on doing. I will probably include the parts disembodied in the final beauty render, though, along with the background weapons.

I also think that your are doing a great job. Your project is huge, and keeping in mind the objective of this challenge (short deadline), it is coming along very well, keep it up!

chichiri
07-06-2010, 10:01 PM
That's a huge project, so far it's really cool, keep going.

GerR
07-07-2010, 06:34 AM
Thanks a lot everyone. It certainly was a big undertaking. I'm trying to get it done before Siggraph, but I really don't think I am going to make it.

This guy took forever to get looking half way decent. He has such a huge curve in his back that it looks like he has kyphosis or something. I had to do so much tweaking to it that I'm surprised it didn't get completely messed up.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/248/eightangles.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/248/eightangles.jpg)
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4601/eightfront.jpg (http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4601/eightfront.jpg)
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2641/eightsides.jpg (http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2641/eightsides.jpg)

I couldn't come up with any way for the left leg to possibly fit in the reference of the painting so I just improvised it for balance.

The two in back are the only ones left now.

Poisen
07-07-2010, 06:55 AM
Monumental piece GerR,

doing a great job catching the forms and the feeling of action in the group.

it reads really well,
the guy looking over the shield really shows your attention to the details in the posturing.
it looks spot on.
:beer:

FabioDona
07-08-2010, 08:40 AM
You're doing a terrific job.

I agree that the asymmetric workflow works best for this.

keep it up!

GerR
07-09-2010, 12:20 AM
Wow thanks a lot guys.

Here is another update for you all. I realized that this guy's back is a little bit too curved when I made the front view. I screwed it up while I was playing with the hips and legs at the end... I'll fix it on the next pass.

This guy gave me a lot of trouble because of the really awkward stance that he has. I think Frazetta really loved putting his characters into positions that would be really weird for a normal person to hold. Maybe thats what adds dimension to the poses. It's definitely a pain to replicate thats for sure. I can't find any reference photos for stuff like this so I end up having to take the pose myself to better understand how the structure is organized. I don't really know how close this is though. I've been staring at it for way too long. Hopefully I captured his general stature.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4527/nineangles.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4527/nineangles.jpg)
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2441/ninefront.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2441/ninefront.jpg)
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2995/ninesides.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2995/ninesides.jpg)

Once again I already see anatomy problems near the waist (the hand and axe also needs a little reposition because they got screwed up somewhere along the line :wip: ). At least now I got him generally blocked in. Only one more to go until I do a refining pass to get everything lined up and then do a couple of passes to improve the details and then add the clothing and accessories.

This guy got really small because of the perspective in the painting. I don't think that I am going to adjust for that, at least during the challenge. I will probably continue working on this after the challenge is over to get everything textured and laid out according to perspective. That way I can have a nice textured diorama from any position. This way I am pretty much limited to the painting view, but that is fine for now.

Last guy hopefully tomorrow.

scottimation
07-09-2010, 12:39 AM
this thing is OUTTA CONTROL :eek:

Klaatu
07-09-2010, 10:52 AM
I'm totally stunned by the work in this...so amazing!

FabioDona
07-10-2010, 07:25 AM
I am really amazed by the amount of work that you are doing, it's impressive. But don't you think would be better to do only the guys in the center? I think just 5 of them would be enough. It's much less work, you can get more quality, and the composition will be more balanced for a 3d diorama in my opinion.

GerR
07-10-2010, 10:13 AM
Thank you very much everyone.

You make a good point about the work Fabio, but I really don't mind putting a lot of time into something that I enjoy. I probably could get more quality but I really can't figure out a way to get rid of any of the characters in the scene that would actually allow for a decent composition in 3d.

I don't really think that complex paintings in general lend themselves well to 3d composition because they are being designed with only one view in mind. Things are positioned according to that one view to direct the eye of the observer along a specific path and give a general sense of form to the mass in terms of simple shapes.

This painting is very much based on a triangular composition, so all of the people are placed in a way to help accentuate that form. I probably could move the people around in a line parallel to the camera angle to give it a similar appearance in 3d so that the general form would carry over from any angle, but that would mean that I would have to change a lot of the posing of the characters to get them to look as though they are reacting to the proper stimulus. I would also have to come up with stuff to fill in the gaps that it would create within the positioning. All that would be a lot of extra work that has to be taken into account if I would decide to go that route.

I really wanted to create the whole image in 3d from the beginning and if I give up on doing that I just feel that I wouldn't have achieved what I set out to do. Thats really why I'm going to stick with this idea of a 3d picture. Besides I have everyone generally positioned now so a lot of the agonizing work is over.

I hope that explains my general thought process on it. I just don't want to change the image. Thanks for the concern though. Its very nice of you. :)

Okay time for an update.

Last guy is done. I spent a little extra time to make sure that he lines up better than the last few that I have done. He won't need too many changes in this next stage, just some minor anatomy corrections and muscle work (right glute particularly).

Anyway here you go.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6222/tenangles.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6222/tenangles.jpg)
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5923/tensidetop.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5923/tensidetop.jpg) http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/1570/tenfront.jpg (http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/1570/tenfront.jpg)

This guy's hands were particularly complicated. I really couldn't find a position that was actually physically possible to achieve, so I just made it as realistic as I could. It seems to be pretty close.

I'll start going over everything again to bring it back into alignment with the image and then start to do a general pass on the muscles before I start to put anything else into the image.

FabioDona
07-12-2010, 08:13 AM
Bryan, thanks for the explanation

It's all looking pretty good so far. keep it up!

GerR
07-13-2010, 02:02 PM
Well I was going to wait until tonight to post the first half of the characters after the second pass, but I decided that I wanted some feedback on the ones that I have done so far. These are the first 3 that I finished the second pass for. I fixed all of the anatomy issues that I could find and did a general sculpt of all of the muscle form to me a good base before I go in for detailing.

If you guys see any problems with the anatomy or the sculpt please tell me so that I can find it and fix the problem (even if it something minor). :wip:
I haven't done much to the hands at this point, so I do see some general things that need a bit of tweaking already.

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/808/1longangles.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5530/2longangles.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/33/10longangles.jpg

I'll be changing all of the faces as soon as I finish this second pass. I should probably have the next two up sometime tonight.

FabioDona
07-14-2010, 01:54 AM
For now what bothers me the most are the lower legs and feet, I'd make them stronger, more consistent with Frazetta's style. Another thing is the torso of the last one seems too squarish.

I'll wait for the next updates to comment on specific parts.

GerR
07-14-2010, 02:26 AM
Thanks Fabio. I'm fixing it right now. I'm not referencing his other paintings as much as I should be. I will now though. I'll post again after I make alterations.

GerR
07-14-2010, 02:54 AM
Well I figure I might as well post these here now before the alterations since I already have them done. I can't do much with the guy that is on his side since he is kind of scrawny anyway. But the other guy I will definitely beef his legs up a bit to make it more Frazettaesque.

http://a.imageshack.us/img705/5404/4shortangles.jpg (http://a.imageshack.us/img705/5404/4shortangles.jpg)
http://a.imageshack.us/img805/5339/3shortangles.jpg (http://a.imageshack.us/img805/5339/3shortangles.jpg)

Feel free to comment on anything.

FabioDona
07-14-2010, 03:28 AM
I have a suggestion for the falling guy. Obviously the painting does not show his lower body, but I think he is still on the ground

Maybe something like this?

(sorry about the lame sketch)

romilkchopra
07-14-2010, 09:14 AM
Coming along nice man,this is going to be massive scene. :buttrock:

HMC#26-FRAZETTA TRIBUTE-DEATH DEALER (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=897861)

PradeepKhudia
07-14-2010, 06:40 PM
really excited to see this finished...:applause:

GerR
07-14-2010, 07:44 PM
I increased the muscles on the legs to match the bodies a bit better. I also widened the 10th guy's shoulders and played around with the legs of the falling one like Fabio suggested. I think it seems to be more of an appropriate fall now. I also fixed some various problems that I saw from my pictures and what I came across while working on the legs.

Thanks for the comments.

I'm hoping to get two more done by tonight. Then I'll do the last three tomorrow. If there is anything else that looks strange be sure to point it out.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7076/10refinedangles.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7076/10refinedangles.jpg)
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2056/variousrefined.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2056/variousrefined.jpg)

FabioDona
07-14-2010, 08:55 PM
I think it's much better balanced now :applause:

Now, the sneaky guy in the last update. It's not that I think it's bad. But, looking at the painting. I see the axe is an position that is not really compatible with this pose. I'm not even sure if those hands are on the same guy! But that's a fair interpretation. However if the guy was really in the pose you did, he wouldn't be holding the axe upright like in the painting, so my interpretation is that he is attacking more, projecting his chest forward, something like this:

GerR
07-14-2010, 10:07 PM
Thanks Fabio.

I'm going to have to disagree on this one. I think that it would probably be a better pose to give him more of a stuck out chest, but it would be too hard to find a way for that to fit the image. Here is an overlay of where it is right now.

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1161/overlaycrouch.jpg (http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1161/overlaycrouch.jpg)

The anatomy and general spine position seem to line up better this way (I could pull the tricep in a little though). He would have to be almost flat otherwise.

I agree that the hands could be from another person. It was going through my mind the whole time I was working. I had a hard time fitting them realistically, but they seem to be plausible enough now. I just wanted to give him something to hold that was in frame. Thanks though. Anything else?

FabioDona
07-16-2010, 05:56 PM
Yeah, it makes more sense in the overlay

I still think this is not what's going on in the painting though. To me it's much more likely that those hands are from a hidden guy (there is a shield behind the axe). But yeah that would be more trouble since you need a new guy for those hands, so it's not worth it.

Just details, overall everything is looking really great :)

GerR
07-18-2010, 04:56 AM
I've been thinking about that guy over the past couple of days. I did agree that giving him a little forward momentum might help, so I decided to try for a similar pose and see how it actually worked. I don't really know if it is any better. It just seems different is all. Well, tell me what you guys think.
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6531/10posechange.jpg (http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6531/10posechange.jpg)

I was also thinking about the hands. This guy really does need to be holding on to that axe or I would need 2 people between him and the fallen one. Here is a picture explaining.
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/822/axeexplain.jpg
That round occluding object is either a shield or this guy's arm. If it is a shield, he can't be carrying it because the two hands holding the axe are between him and the shield. Also, if it is his arm, then he has to be the one holding the axe because the right hand is occluded but the axe is in front of him. So, (if the shield has someone holding it) there would have to be 2 people between him and the fallen guy, if he isn't holding the axe. :shrug:

I'll probably keep him in this pose because it really is more typical Frazetta. He looks like he is pulling something which is a little strange though (because of the forward center of gravity shift).

I finished up the second pass on all of the characters. I'll make a new post for that though. Still have to put together the pictures.

GerR
07-18-2010, 06:13 AM
Here is the latest progress. It took a day longer than expected from an unrelated setback, but I'm back on track.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4882/second1to4.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4882/second1to4.jpg)
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7213/second5to8.jpg (http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7213/second5to8.jpg)
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9855/second9to10.jpg (http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9855/second9to10.jpg)
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6055/totalsecondpass.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6055/totalsecondpass.jpg)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6618/totalsecondpassequip.jpg (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6618/totalsecondpassequip.jpg)

Let me know if you want to see another angle. I didn't want to load this with too many images.

I'm going to be focusing on the faces and more detailed refinement next. I'm going to only work on 3 (maybe 4) over the next 5 days so that I can use them in my showreel for Siggraph. I really doubt it will be enough to get me a job, but I have to try while I'm there.

Critiques always welcome. :wip:
I'm interested to know what everyone thinks of the new position of the last character. Which one is better?

FabioDona
07-18-2010, 07:38 AM
The new pose works better, it's still ambiguous (it's very awkward to hold a heavy axe that way) but it's the best you can do to make that guy hold the axe.

If that is a shield, this guy is holding it. Maybe he's also holding a spear that is next to him. If that is the case, there is a guy on his knees holding the axe straight up. However I couldn't find a way to fit that guy there, unless he's in a hole or he's really in a compressed position, but that contradicts the act of holding the axe that way, so it's the same problem.

I don't have much time right now to comment on the other update, but it seems very nice. The forms are simple, not loaded with too many details. Maybe it's still too minimal if you look at each character isolated, but it works great as a whole, it may work even better with all the props. I don't know if it's possible, or if you intend, to push the anatomy to the same level of the painting, with that many models to work on!

GerR
07-18-2010, 07:08 PM
Yeah, I think your drawing is probably showing the most reasonable arrangement for it. I'm not quite sure that Frazetta actually fully thought out where this axe wielder was, which is why it seems strange no matter what position he's in.

I'm going to try to get as much detail into this as I can. That is one of the reasons I am working in stages, to keep the detail consistent and gauge the time I have to work on them all.

I'll see how much detail I can put on 3 of them in the next 5 days. That will pretty much determine the extent of the detail during the challenge. I'll be working on this afterwards to add more detail and setup shaders, so this certainly won't determine the extent of the work I'll put in.

All of the models are still around 400k polys, so the mesh isn't dense enough to efficiently get much more detail than what is on it. I'll be subdividing it another 2 times after I get the faces blocked out. That way I can add more structure and weight to the forms. The equipment and ground really do add a lot to the scene that it is lacking right now.

GerR
07-21-2010, 02:49 AM
I started the detailing process with Conan. I still have 2 more to get through in the next 3 days so this is going to be a hard push before Siggraph. I'll probably do 2 that don't have nearly as much equipment, because that was a real time sink.

Nothing is as good as I would like it to be and I don't have any small scale texturing, but that won't really be visible in the final anyway. Anyway, enjoy.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3406/conanfinal1.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3406/conanfinal1.jpg)

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2788/conanfinal2.jpg (http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2788/conanfinal2.jpg)

Back to work. :wip:

ravi-S
07-21-2010, 04:45 AM
This is turning out very nice.
Hope you are able to finish this massive project in time.

LucianoAA
07-21-2010, 06:06 AM
Immensely awesome.

G0MEZ
07-21-2010, 08:29 PM
Hi GerR, last update looks really cool. I'm asking myself from the beginning: how on earth you could finish this on time? Now i start thinking you have a chance.

Anyway good luck :)

JM-art
07-22-2010, 12:07 AM
Hi, i was worried because in the first updates i didnt saw lot of progress in terms of sculpting/detailing...but in this last update i realize that you didnīt want to detail until the characters were ok in position and general shape. So, now i think, this has a lot of potencial...keep it up with same energy please, you could end up with a terrific image for your portfolio.

Cheers!...very good work.

ragevvorks
07-22-2010, 02:48 PM
Really good stuff! I admire your bravery to tackle such an 'impossible' picture :D

FabioDona
07-22-2010, 10:28 PM
Cool update, it's already looking great with just a few details :)

razorbjc
07-23-2010, 02:53 AM
wow you are a really fast modeler. That probably would have taken me 2-3 times as long to do. It lookin good. I'm also going to siggraph. Don't worry, we have another week after siggraph don't we?

GerR
07-23-2010, 03:04 AM
Thank you very much everyone! Very nice to hear that you like it. Means a lot to me.

@JM-art: Yeah I really wanted to avoid putting any kind of details into the piece before I had the characters where I wanted them. Putting in clothing and and extra detail early on just adds to the workload and slows the whole process down, because you are bound to change around everything if the pose is off. I did spend a little too much time fiddling with the posing though. Next time I do something like this, it will go a little faster.

Here is the next character. It took me a lot longer than expected because the pose was just so unnatural that I couldn't get it looking realistic. In the end I decided to move the head over to the left just a little bit to give it the balance that it needed. Other than that it is still pretty accurate, but I needed to shift some stuff to make it natural.

On to the next one. :wip:

Enjoy.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2509/finalsecond1.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2509/finalsecond1.jpg)

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3628/finalsecond2.jpg (http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3628/finalsecond2.jpg)

FabioDona
07-23-2010, 05:38 AM
I think you can make this pose more balanced shifting the leg forward. I know this pose is weird anyway, but that leg seems wrong, I mean I don't feel much weight there.

GerR
07-23-2010, 06:37 AM
Thanks again Fabio. That definitely makes the footing look better.

Dark-Dan
07-24-2010, 05:25 AM
good work:buttrock:
keep rocking~

G0MEZ
07-24-2010, 07:19 AM
Lean his body to the right and back, like his defending or retreating. This way it will be more natural and balanced and this is the way he stands on the picture. Another thing : his arm don't have to be straighten. I think it's bended and the edge of the shield lies on his shoulder thus helping to hold it. You see on the illustration his left shoulder is not there where it should be? I think think its beneath the shield.

GerR
08-01-2010, 06:00 AM
Hey guys, I'm back to working on this. Got to finish it up before the 9th, so I'll be giving it all my effort.

Hey Gomez. I think your right about the elbow being bent at least a little bit. I can't move the shield too much closer to him because it would intersect with his deltoid, but it should be enough to give it a little bend. Can't do anything more with the body at this point because it would end up keeping me from finishing. I know I changed it slightly from the painting, but I really had to do it to get a natural looking positioning around the head.

I really got quite far away from the painting on this one with the position of a few of the elements. I'll come back and correct them if I have time at the end. So, here is the third guy.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2046/finalthird1.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2046/finalthird1.jpg)
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9244/finalthird2.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9244/finalthird2.jpg)

Seven more to go. :wip:

G0MEZ
08-01-2010, 08:01 AM
I think you know that already but you should do something with his pose from the back view, it's too symmetrical.Also i think you got it wrong from the side. He's out of balance pushed rapidly from the front so his arms should be trying to balance the torso. Torso pushed back but not bend to the back, rather the other way, arms stretched to the front. Also torso twisted to the left maybe but pushed back to the right because his trying to balance the force of the other guy. Bend his arm despite what Frazetta draw, you can't generate force to strike like that, the power comes from the joints they can't be straighten. Also this makes him look stiff and not like he's been pushed by someone.
I know theres not much time left for that final tweaks.
I like his face.

GerR
08-01-2010, 05:49 PM
Yeah, I know his right shoulder should be pulled back a bit farther than it is right now. I really never did like the posing of the legs (probably should rotate them forward at the waist). I think that it is a decision between making him fall and giving him force to strike with the sword. If he is doing one then it would be hard to do the other (falling would prevent him from being able to generate force). I'm just not entirely convinced anymore that the guy in front of him is actually pushing him back. I couldn't even come close to a setup that looked like it could generate enough force for that to happen (at most the guy in front contacts the rim of the shield). The cloth around his neck is not stretched from any kind of contact that would explain it either. There is also a huge shield that is between them. I think that the shield is probably what is throwing him off balance in the painting.

I'll definitely come back to this (if not before the deadline, right after).

Thanks for the critique. It's definitely frustrating conforming to this painting when there are some things that just don't seem quite right about the poses.

JM-art
08-05-2010, 02:37 AM
Hey, well done, but IMO youīre missing the core, the essence of the Frazetta painting here. The original painting is really powerfull, dinamic, and all the characters are in a kill or die situation. Your characters seem to be relaxed, mostly in the facial expressions, they donīt express action or visceral emotions like they should. I think you are focussing too much in technical/anatomical aspects, and forgeting about the dinamic and action part of the thing.

Cheers.

GerR
08-08-2010, 07:05 PM
Well I never really intended to really copy the essence of his work, it was more of an intense anatomy study to help me improve my form, proportion, and 2d to 3d translation ability (So I guess I succeeded ;) ). I didn't want to spend the time on the faces because they wouldn't be showing in the beauty render anyway. I'm planning on doing a face study as one of my next projects, so I'll spend the time analyzing emotion when doing that.

I'm actually not going to be finishing this competition. I've learned a lot and have improved considerably, but I just can't finish it right now. If I ever get the drive to complete it (which I probably will, but not for a while), I'll put it up in the gallery. Until then, everyone keep the content generation going. I've got other stuff to get done. :cool:

Ruso
08-09-2010, 02:10 AM
I don't post very often but this time I'm so sorry to read that you are not finishing the competition. The way you translated Frazetta's image from 2D to 3D is amazing. I love the modeling and how you have been able to imagine and resolve the not so clear parts of the image while staying faithful to the original composition. There is no case in working on the facial expressions of the secondary characters as they'll stay hidden in the beauty render. You have perfectly capture the essence of the image.

The figures you have been able to finish and detail are absolutely beautiful. For Frazetta's fans like myself it's a pleasure being able to see his Conan come to life in 3D.

I can only say, thank you for the privilege of being able to follow your work these past weeks. Wish you'll finish it someday.

Congratulations, you are such an amazing artist. I'm sure Frazetta would be proud! Your Destroyer kicks ass.

GerR
08-09-2010, 02:37 PM
Thanks a lot Ruso. I'll finish it eventually. When I start working on it again, I'll make a thread in the wip section. Just don't know when that will be.

GerR
08-10-2010, 04:01 AM
Figured I should just submit something, so this is what it is going to be. Single Character.

BEAUTY RENDER/HIREZ RENDER LINK (Click Image)
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4712/finalrender.jpg (http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4712/finalrender.jpg)

TURNTABLE ANIMATION
http://www.vimeo.com/14020429

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3452/turntable.gif
(Just wanted to test the gif. Too low quality. Use the vimeo link.)

ORTHOGRAPHIC RENDERS
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/286/backortho.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7717/bottomortho.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4448/leftortho.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3498/rightortho.jpg
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8821/toportho.jpg

Thank you everyone who was following the progress. Watch for when I start up working on it again.

CGTalk Moderation
08-10-2010, 04:01 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.