Feedback on Game Engines

[the rookie]

The most stable engine I have encountered is the Torque Game Engine, it may not be not Gen, but it is stable that I do know, and if you're really looking to create a game from scratch that's a good start up engine to learn from for 3d games

Orge and Quest3d are really nice for next gen graphic development and they do have collision detection to work from, Irrichit Engine is nice but Orge and Quest3d are up there on next gen content we are all looking for

I looked into modding, but I'm one of those "how does it work guys", I own a Playstation 2 Dev kit so it's important to learn some of the Engine ground up steps and it helps for industry standard which would easily lead to computer science degree

I'm not sure if I heared correctly but they do have setups for porting to Xbox 360 and PS3 is using a Linux based operating system to create content using OpenGL, I know this is alot of programming jargon, but this is were the team effort comes in "If you're creating a game" but if your looking to get you content in games and playable, modding would be your best option, there are alot of options, outlets and roads ahead , but maybe I just study differently, if you look at the Project Offset Engine, it's not that difficult to create, it's just a matter of who has the time to create a game engine? lol

[SuperDre]

Mind you that publishers/companies aren't really interested anymore in developing their own engine (it takes too much time and too much problems with bugfixing) as more and more they are using the standards on the market (because they are already crossplatform).. So it's better to learn how to work with an engine than to know how to write an engine (ofcourse you should at least know the basics of how an engine works but not the exact inner workings).. And also think about the fact that you can't start real work on the game until you engine is completed very far..

ofcourse as a programmer there is nothing better than to see a model on screen in an engine you completly wrote yourself....
But you have to think about what is your goal:
1. I want to be an engine programmer
2. I want to be a game programmer
3. I just want to sit back and relax ;)

[IslandDreamer]

Beyond Virtual release candidate 1 is now available for download. That engine has come a huge distance in a very limited amount of time and features the most artist-friendly pipeline on the pc (Unity for the Mac offers the easiest for any platform, imho).

Beyond Virtual Game Engine v1.0 RC1 Indie

RELEASE NOTES
-------------

Version: v1.0 Release Candidate 1 - June 9, 2006
-----------------------------------
- Support for cubic environment maps
- Render-to-texture cubic environment mapping (reflections)
- Fixed issue with reloading of objects where the reloaded object file has an error
- Added math functions for scripts
- Changed the sorting for alpha objects to use the bounding box center instead of (0,0,0)
- Screenshot functionality by pressing F11 when running a game through the editor (saves as TGA file in 'screenshots' directory)
- Super-high-res screenshots by pressing Shift-F11 in game, saves screenshot at 8x the screen resolution
- Added script functions for setting global wind & gravity
- Export cube map option in game editor
- Can now execute multiple game scripts simutaniously using 'LoadScript' command
- The rendering order for surfaces within an object can be set by naming the surface with "_Order01" at the end, where the number '01' is replaced with it's ordering (highest gets drawn last)
- Fixed blending issue with FBX character animations
- Accounted for joint axis rotations in FBX files
- New Terrain object & editor. Paint your terrains, add multiple layers of textures
- New dynamic Water system with moving waves / object bouyancy
- Countless new script commands (check the 'Scripting Reference' for a complete list of the scripting functions. Over 700 scripting commands are now available!
- Countless bug fixes & enhancements
- exported games have an optional skinnable 'Launcher' that allows the user to choose their resolution & other options, including whether they want to enable HDR or Stencil Shadows etc for performance reasons.
- Countless Editor improvements & enhancements.


For only $150, Beyond Virtual is definitely worth checking out: www.beyondvirtual.com (http://www.beyondvirtual.com)

Here's a link to a video of the car racing template that ships with the engine: http://media.putfile.com/BvCarTemplate

There's also an FPS and RTS template.

[IslandDreamer]

If you have a Mac or are thinking of getting a Mac, you owe it to yourself to check out the latest version of Unity.

http://unity3d.com/whatsnew-1.5.html

After experimenting with nearly every artist-oriented product listed in this thread, I believe Unity is the best indie engine available on any platform.

[freeschwag]

Thanks for the info update with BeyondVirtual, IslandDreamer...it looks very enticing!

Just how "artist-friendly" are you talking? I've monkeyed a bit with DeepCreator
and I think you have too...can you give a little breakdown on your thoughts
comparing the two (haven't tried the DeepCreator newest beta yet)?

Also, do you have any mod experience, and if so, would you say BeyondVirtual's scripting
is similar?

cheers. :)

freeschwag

[IslandDreamer]

By artist-friendly, I mean that you don't have to learn a new creation method to use the engine. Use your favorite 3d program and export in FBX, 3DS or OBJ and your assets will come right into BV with a minimum of fuss. There's no distinction between level geometry and static or animated meshes, which has always been one of my pet peeves with game engines. When the first versions of BV were released earlier this year, it was definitely Lightwave-centric, but FBX support has improved greatly, so it should pose no problem for Maya or Max users to master.

Scripting isn't for the faint of heart, but the good news is that BV ships with several different templates designed to give the non-coder a running start.

I love Deep Creator, but it's a 3d authoring environment aimed at corporate users; I don't think Right Hemisphere is very interested in pursuing the indie game development market. It's really difficult to compare DC and BV, because Deep Creator is an expensive, well-tested tool that also includes extensive modeling capabilities.

[DaFuture]

Hi,

The list of game engines you provided is a pretty good list. I have a few you didn't name. They are:

1) Reality Engine, free - $???, Seems to have alot of features
2) Reality Factory, free - $140, same as above
3) C4 Engine, $100
4) KjApi, free, Every feature seems to be covered

What do you think of these? Also, what are good modeling & animation apps that'll work in these engines? Silo was impressive for characters but it doesn't do animation and I don't know if it will work on these. I personally am impressed with how many features these engines have, especially for the price. They seem to be perfect for making sports games which is what I'm focused on right now. I'm not too knowledgable on what an engine should have to make it a good engine so i come to you for your opinion. I would like my finished game to have the regular Xbox or PS2 look as well as gameplay. Thanks for the direction and hope to get more advice.

DaFuture

[SuperDre]

1) Reality Engine, free - $???, Seems to have alot of features

Unless you're talking about a different reality engine, the Reality Engine http://artificialstudios.com/ is definitly not free and as far as the story goes it's not available anymore (Epic has bought the engine)...
Otherwise a link to the engine you are talking about.

[IslandDreamer]

The FREE Beyond Virtual Starter Kit has been released! http://www.beyondvirtual.com/?page=starterkit.php

[DaFuture]

IslandDreamer,

Thanks alot 4 that link 2 BeyondVirtual. It seems to be exactly what I was look'n 4. Am I read'n it right, the free download version (bronze) gives U full access 2 ALL the features like the license version? So I can make a FULLY functional game from scratch from the modeling 2 the animation? Then if I decide to sell my game all I have 2 do is just purchase the license for $150? It seems like a really good deal so far. Any downsides? I guess I'll jus have 2 give the free version a go. Thanks again

[DaFuture]

I'm new 2 this so I'm having a little bit of trouble get'n started. I want make a basketball game. First, I want 2 start modeling either my characters or the arena. Do I need 2 use a modeling app to make my characters and arenas then bring them into BeyondVirtual or can I actually model in BV? If I need an app can something like Silo or Ac3D models be brought N 2 BV? R there any tutorials for BeyondVirtual? If anyone can assist me N this matter it would greatly B appreciated.


DaFuture

[IslandDreamer]

The advantage of Beyond Virtual vs. many other engines is that you build your entire scene within your 3d software and export them as models. There is no distinction between level geometry (the courts, hoops, etc.) in your scene and the models (players, basketball). If you use Lightwave, BV will allow you to import the camera and lighting as well.

For most applications, the preferrred animated format is FBX. For static meshes, 3DS or OBJ will work fine.

I don't have the starter kit, so I don't know what documentation is included with it, but I believe it will include starter tutorials. Be prepared though: you will need to learn to script in order to move past the very basics.

The only feature missing from the starter kit is the ability to export your finished game as an executable. But this is the perfect way to learn how to put a project together with no financial risk.

[ali-rahimi-shahmirzadi]

could you explain more about its motion blur and dof ? any snapshoot or demo?

[IslandDreamer]

Blur in BV is very easy. Just use the blur slider within the effects tab and see the results instantly.

http://static.flickr.com/45/190150258_43a7c7b3f7_o.jpg

Depth of field is not as straight forward. I hadn't tried to use it until this moment and I couldn't find the scripting reference for it. Like most BV commands, though, it should be easy to add to your camera script once you know the proper syntax.

But don't take my word for it; download the Starter Kit and give it a whirl.

[ali-rahimi-shahmirzadi]

I sed motion blur not a simple blur.

[IslandDreamer]

Oops! Sorry. Once again, motion blur is a feature I haven't yet tested and I don't recall seeing any examples.

Most of the early adopters of BV haven't had your artistic skills. It would be great to see some of your imagery in the BV engine!

[ali-rahimi-shahmirzadi]

Thank. iam geting little bit confuse.it seem q3d an bv are almost the same. but i will try bv. i dont think its going to be to much difference between this 2 engine. i need a next gen engine to test and even build a free technical demo for them. like what iam doing know for q3d.

http://www.ali-rahimi.net/other/X-fridg.016.jpg

[IslandDreamer]

I own Quest3D as well and although they may have similar capabilities, the two engines couldn't have more distinct workflows.

Beyond Virtual is built around Open GL, not Direct X.

BV is designed for small, indie game developers (and priced that way at $150 for the Silver license) vs. 999 Euros for the Creative edition of Q3D.
I look forward to hearing what you think once you've given it a try.

[IslandDreamer]

UPDATE: If you downloaded the BV Starter Kit examples files yesterday or earlier today, there was a bug in the racing and rts templates that resulted in empty file folders when you tried to create a new file from either template. The corrected installer is now available for download.

Note that the starter files are only available after you download the Starter Kit and register for a free Bronze account.

[the rookie]

Any Linux support on BV for Open GL 2.0? I like Orge and Quest 3D is pretty nice as well

[the rookie]

Thanks Island for the link, you might want to ask them to post the engine specs here at www.devmaster.net (http://www.devmaster.net) it's a 3d Engine database that way we any or all can get a quick view of the of the engine specs, it looks great, I'm still researching it, it would be nice if has certain features but I'll definatly look into it

[Bliz]

Ok, let's imagine I fancy making a game by doing a 'TC' total conversion of an existing game and letting the potential publisher license the engine near the end of the project.

What are the most mod-able and scriptable engines? Which has the best editors, which game would give me the most 'features', which has the most robust and accesible multiplayer code and which one would get me closest to the goal of making a game without much coding knowledge?

The games I would consider are listed below but I'd like other peoples opinions of the pro's and con's of them plus info on any I haven't considered.

Serious Sam
Far Cry
Unreal Tournement
Half Life 2
Doom3 / Quake4
GTA San Andreas
BF1942 & expansions
BF Vietnam
BF2

[the rookie]

Half-Life has great tools and editors for modding

[freeschwag]

Can anyone share their experience with the Lawmaker engine?
( http://www.darkroomstudios.com (http://www.darkroomstudios.com/) )

Specifically, I'm wondering how "easy" it is for non-programmers to
use their editing tools and develop a full-fledged FPS or "action" game.

It appears they've got "Coding framework that provides AI support, AI network path nodes,
HUD rendering, Inventory, Weapon (dualies), Gameplay, object serialization, math library, etc."
but I'd like to hear how user-friendly these features are. Also, what would you say the
most effective pipeline is for animated character meshes and what level of control for
animation blending and character control is available?

Additionally, how does it stack up with the Beyond Virtual engine for those that have both?

Thanks for any insight, guys. :)

cheers.

[freeschwag]

hmmm...so nobody here using Lawmaker? or nobody willing to yammer about it?

It looks quite nice, but I'd like to hear first-hand mostly un-biased opinions, if anyone
could spare the time. ;)

[richcz3]

Half-Life has great tools and editors for modding
Very true - I had never succesfully worked with a popular games SDK/Tools.
THe Source Engine (HL2's) tools are easy and straight forward to work with.

The biggest problem with the Source Engine is all the bugs that plague the engine in play.
I own 8 licenses I have never owned such an unstable game even after all the updates via Steam. For me this is the biggest reason why so few developers have adopted the Source Engine for their games.

[jmBoekestein]

I find the game Half life 2 itself runs rather stable, where do these bugs happen?

[richcz3]

I find the game Half life 2 itself runs rather stable, where do these bugs happen?
The Single player game licenses are stable on all the PCs. No real problem there.

Problem arise in Multiplayer. If you check the Steampowered forums you'll see there is a persistant Sound Stutter bug that has existed since its release. Althought I haven't seen Valves response, the underlying problem appears to be associated with their Software audio renderer. In any case when I ran LAN games after work on 8 systems, random PCs would lock up and go into the sound stutter crash. It is completely random and not based on System speed, Memory or Audio HW setup.

In writing that, the HL2 Source is the only PC title that has caused so much grief. All other PC titles run well. Its a shame as the editor tools are so easy to work with. :hmm:

[gameboy]

Has anybody out there tried the Power Render 6 (http://www.powerrender.com/2006/homepage.htm) engine? That engine used to be much more expensive and so I ignored it at first, but now it has a very reasonable licensing cost. It seems to have great features, powerful tools, and for those of us who don't own the expensive 3D Max software, it also supports Lightwave Scene files and .X files to boot.

If it wasn't for the upcoming Visual3D.Net (http://www.visual3d.net/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx) IDE and Engine, I would probably already have jumped on this bandwagon. If Visual3D.Net turns out to be as good as the initial hype seems to indicate, it should be a much nicer next-gen (XNA and beyond) Windows platform to develop with, using .NET and its associated languages as opposed to C++ and .COM.

[jsh3d]

Over the last year or so I helped develop the Baja Engine (http://www.bajaengine.com) to create the game The Lost Mansion (http://www.thelostmansion.com). I think it has some nice features that aren't really found in other engines in its price range (which is why we developed it). It produces professional results - with shaders, multitexturing, etc - but is also pretty easy to use. It integrates with Softimage XSI (including the mod tool) and includes a lot of useful utilities. It is also totally complete - it does everything you need to make a game. I think it is perfect for what most indie developers need.

It has a free trial so it would be awesome if anybody would check it out and give feedback. Feel free to ask me any questions.

Thanks,
James H
Breezeway Studios Programmer

[Gephoria]

did i miss the unreal engine? or is it just discarded? the new one looks pretty sweet

[su]

did i miss the unreal engine? or is it just discarded? the new one looks pretty sweet

the new unreal engine is pretty expensive to license (so I've heard). You have contact Epic and learn the price:)