WIP: Deco Lobby

[JIII]

damn that looks nice and its still a wip 0_o.


anyway I think large windows on the ground level would not look that good. It would go aginst the general flow of things.


I.e the lower level has no other windows.


Anyway maybe you can convince render king to loan you the farm for a few days.

It never hurts to ask ya know.

[smoke]

wow thats going to be "fun" to light and render
Love the skylight

[Gerry]

Good WIP

but tooooo much reflections on the paver!!
Gerri

[rikrog]

to me the railing's look a little bulky (ie. thickness of of the wrought iron) especially on the plant motif.... and perhaps also too sparsely decorated?

i vote you take out the ceiling lights above the reception desk and replace them with wall lamps. also set the reception desk and the scooped out wall behind so it's centred nicely with the balcony and glass roof. it looks a bit wonky as it is.

just thought.... the railing looks... a bit art nuevo? where as the rest is very deco in stile? i could be wrong on that one though, its been meny, meny years since my art history classes.

cheers
rik

[JamesMK]

Woah! Impressive work. Personally, I'd love to see huge panoramic windows surrounding the revolving door. But then I'm a sucker for 'cinematic' lighting (which such an arrangement would provide a good foundation for). However, I'm not sure if it would be 'in style' for your plans here.

Overall, it's a teensy bit too reflective and clean, IMHO. Very impressive nevertheless. :applause:

[ODoul]

Very nice indeed. Perhaps it's the camera angle but I think that the scale of the revolving door on the left looks a bit small. -- 3d_e

[AdamT]

Good stuffs.

I definitely agree there's too much reflection in the floor. I have some distance falloff in there, but obviously not enough. I may also add some more mixed marble pattern in the central portion, which is looking kind of empty to me.

Regarding the desk, I think it'll look better with wall/desk lamps--yep. I think I'll keep the shape, but it should seem more harmonious when I put some nice plants on either side. I'm going to fill that area behind with a big mirror, too, which should help bring in the area behind the camera.

The revolving door should be to scale, but since the lower ceiling is 20' high, it does look smallish. I'm planning to add a sort of 1/2 dome sculptural element on top of the door, which will hopefully address some of that.

thanks again for the comments!

[JIII]

hmm yea it doesn't look 20 feet to me,

that would be a good idea to add some moudling or sculpture to it.

[MJV]

Originally posted by 3D_Explorer
Very nice indeed. Perhaps it's the camera angle but I think that the scale of the revolving door on the left looks a bit small. -- 3d_e

It probably is the camera angle. You have to think about who is taking this picture, and why. Is the photographer going to get up on step ladder for this image, because that is what he would have to do to take this picture. Since it looks more like a snapshot, and is nearish eye level, the viewer subconsciously assumes that the person taking the picture is simply standing, but in that case the person would have to be 10 feet tall. The eye assumes that the photographer is indeed not 10 feet tall, but 6 feet tall, so what happens is everything becomes miniaturized in the eye of the viewer, the revolving doors are only 6 feet tall, etc.

[ODoul]

ahhhhh, thanks MV, you one smart cookie.

[JIII]

hmm looking at this a bit more I think that the seperation between the first and second levels could be different.


It looks just like straight geometry a little bit now.


anyway you might wat to add soemthing to the edges to make it a little lese like that.

I think it is detracting realism from it. Although it does go with the style.

[Brent Turbo]

1) The way you have this room lit, it would be relatively easy to light this using traditional techniques and fakes. For instance, if the lights in those fixtures are actually casting shadows of the light fixtures onto the walls, then fake that using a gobo texture on the lights and turn off the shadow casting.

2) I've never seen a wall or ceiling, particularly in this type of architecture, that is pure 50% grey. Perhaps a little warmth or coolness to that value?

3) Has this building been inhabited yet? Even if not, there's going to be wear and tear, and scratches on the floor. There's also going to be darker areas in the corners, and towards the tops and bottoms of walls. An image map in the diffuse channel should do the trick there. People want radiosity to take care of all that, but it's not happening here, so fake it!

And really, ditch radiosity, because I really don't think it's adding a dynamic sense to this image. Instead, use that 7 hours of render time to tweak your lighting, and come up with something more moody that will help this image tell a story. With traditional lighting you can do all of that, and probably cut your rendertimes by 80-95%.

Hope you like some of these ideas, because I think this piece has a lot of potential! Take care!

Brent

[AdamT]

Hi Brent,
I agree that the radiosity isn't looking so hot right now. I'll definitely invest some time in a light rig.

JIII,
Oh sh*t, I just realized that the lower ceiling is only 12', which does throw the door out of scale a bit (6 1/2' high). It also changes my calculation of the scale on the glass bricks. Thankfully I haven't made the fully-modeled bricks yet.

MV,
Do you think it's generally bad practice to use a camera angle that's higher than head height?

[MJV]

Agreed. It's a very cool idea to do an art deco lobby and this image is looking good. Too bad you don't live in NYC because we have a lot of them here. What you do with the sky light will be important I think. Is the sky light lit by sky, or by fluorescent backlighting? Whichever it is do your best to make it look like that. Currently it looks a bit too uniform and thin.

Originally posted by Brent Turbo
1) The way you have this room lit, it would be relatively easy to light this using traditional techniques and fakes. For instance, if the lights in those fixtures are actually casting shadows of the light fixtures onto the walls, then fake that using a gobo texture on the lights and turn off the shadow casting.

2) I've never seen a wall or ceiling, particularly in this type of architecture, that is pure 50% grey. Perhaps a little warmth or coolness to that value?

3) Has this building been inhabited yet? Even if not, there's going to be wear and tear, and scratches on the floor. There's also going to be darker areas in the corners, and towards the tops and bottoms of walls. An image map in the diffuse channel should do the trick there. People want radiosity to take care of all that, but it's not happening here, so fake it!

And really, ditch radiosity, because I really don't think it's adding a dynamic sense to this image. Instead, use that 7 hours of render time to tweak your lighting, and come up with something more moody that will help this image tell a story. With traditional lighting you can do all of that, and probably cut your rendertimes by 80-95%.

Hope you like some of these ideas, because I think this piece has a lot of potential! Take care!

Brent

[JIII]

yea I noticed that too the chairs would have to be like 8 feet tall if that were a 20 foot ceiling.

I have a 20 foot ceiling in my living room if you want a good idea of what 20 feet looks like I can get you a pic.


But I think you probibly don't need it.

[basilisk]

Spent last weekend looking round Eltham Palace in London - one of the most complete Art Deco interiors in the UK. The look is probably closer to the continental style than your perhaps more American look. I can't find any pictures unfortunately. Just a few thoughts which may not be relevant, but you might want to consider. All the rooms seemed to either be circular, or have significant curved elements. Apart from your nice dome, the room is essentially box like. what about an upwards curve on the underside of the balcony? Also there was some great concealed lighting - false ceilings and tricks like that. Also none of the walls had just paint - what about more stone, inlaid wood, stripes, bleached leather, chrome, murals or unusually proportioned windows?

actually forget all that - I think it looks great.
James N

[MJV]

A google image search of 'art deco interior' turns up a few decent reference images.

[AdamT]

Deco styles vary depending on the decade (early 30s to late 40s "streamline" deco) and region. To be sure, I have a bunch of reference images from all over, but most of what I'm using is based on photographs I've taken in the Miami Beach art deco district. Lots of authentic material here.

[modestmouse]

the stained glass makes it look fake but the rest is very good!

[kiwi]

Looks nice :)


Ya I agree the glass has a kind of 2d effect whereas the rest looks 3d,its creating a confusing kind meld if you will between the 3d aspects and the 2d.


Stu.

[handige_harrie]

Indeed, radiosity isn't working.
Ambient Occlusion might be a solution (it works even indoors).
A good positioning of lights and secondary lights (fall-off adds a lot to realism) might be the best solution.

Right now the stained-glass looks to 'cartoonish', the color are to even imo.

Do an edge bevel on hard geometry edged like that of the balcony.

[xeno]

Not much more to add or comment except for, indeed, the windows looking a bit cartoonish, one of the first things that struck me!
Very very nice work tho, i always like interiors :)

[stew]

Originally posted by AdamT
I definitely agree there's too much reflection in the floor. I have some distance falloff in there, but obviously not enough. I may also add some more mixed marble pattern in the central portion, which is looking kind of empty to me.
I don't think the floor reflections are too much, but they're definately too sharp. The must be diffuse, even if the floor were perfectly polished. I don't know if Cinema4D's depth of field can take care of that, from what I can see it's just a dumb Z-buffer masked 2D blur (unless they changed that with R8), so you might either want to use diffuse ray traced reflections or if you want it faster, render the reflection separately (with DOF) and put it as a texture map on the floor.

[brammelo]

The skylight should be mounted on top of something (a roof slab, a beam, ...). And those things have a certain thickness ...

Cheers,
BaRa

[brammelo]

Originally posted by stew
I don't know if Cinema4D's depth of field can take care of that, from what I can see it's just a dumb Z-buffer masked 2D blur (unless they changed that with R8), so you might either want to use diffuse ray traced reflections or if you want it faster, render the reflection separately (with DOF) and put it as a texture map on the floor.

It can be done (but it consumes a lot of CPU power) with the blurred reflection option in the material settings.

Cheers,
BaRa

[AdamT]

Phew, hate to drag this old thread out of the attic, but after a little hiatus I've had a chance to revisit this scene. As you can see I've mainly been working on the lighting. Started out trying to avoid radiosity, but in order to achieve similar quality I had to use so many lights that I virtually lost any render speed advantage. I'll use a cutdown version of the lightrigged scene for the animation, so not a waste of time at all.

I still have some elements to add, and I forgot to bump up ray depth for the plants (:annoyed:), but some C&C would be great.

http://www.3danvil.com/Deco_Rad.028.jpg

[FredSpeaks]

It is coming along quite nicely. The colors look spot on Art Modern! Apart from the low AA and the wide FOV to show everything, the one thing that bugs me is the glass block. The joints inbetween the blocks are too easy to see. I think if you make the glass cloudy it will the lessen the heavy feel that the joints have now.

keep it up:thumbsup:

[JoelOtron]

:applause:

Looks like I could walk right into that scene---beautiful.

The subtle bump map on the marble floor helps a lot. its those little imperfections that make cg images look closer to real life. (at least it looks like its a bump map)

if I'm looking for something to critisize, (and this is minor) I'd say that theres something about the bump texture on the left ceiling (under mezanine) that seems a bit "cg" to me. Maybe because the bumps are recieving light from more than one source--it flattens them out a bit--maybe they are blurry--not sure how to articulate the prob. But its a subtle thing.

Good job!

Wish I could actually finish one of my own side projects!

(PS: I like the glass blocks) :)

[Peter C.]

You have done a wonderful job on it. Very photorealistic! :thumbsup:

[AdamT]

Thanks!

Fredspeaks: yep, I agree with you on the blocks. I'll take down the transparency 10-20%.

Joel: what's Fred talking about--the blocks are perfect! :) Well aside from the transparency, I'm much happier with the modeled blocks than I was with the tex map.

[flingster]

boom...adamt...ya like to surprise us all don't ya.
that just kicks some ass bud..
love it

couple of questions i got?
is it an advert for solidsplines (or are they modelled?)
not keen on the bins/trash cans on the right hand side...would like to have seen less industrial style...but this might be totally on timeline no idea.
also if possible i would have liked to see the railing on the balcony area to be broken up texture wise but not sure if its possible or again in style...eg posts dark or brass...then toppers brass...railing/fancy grill part dark material as is....that said don't mind it to much but bump seems a bit harsh and big scale wise...hard to tell if you want to get the wrought iron look then you got it..don't change.

good, good work...i'm going to shrink back into my corner of inadequacy now!:annoyed:

[AdamT]

Thanks Flingster. Actually there are no SolidSplines in there. The railing is modeled in one section and repeated with MSA. I was going for wrought iron, but I like your ideas about mixing the materials. I think the scene could use a little variation. About the trashcans--to be honest I didn't give it much thought. At least in the US the ones I've used seem to be almost universal. :shrug:

Below is a detail shot. I tried to tone down the transparency of the glass block--but it's not enough I'm afraid. Also I haven't got around to fixing the textures and cushions on the lounge chairs.

I'm thinking for the animation I may do an NPR-type track and at the holds blend in the high-rez stills. Have to see what it looks like. I think it could be cool. :)



http://www.3danvil.com/Detail002.jpg

[ODoul]

My 2 cents. Photorealism is over-rated. It's very difficult to achive, for sure, but style and technique is more important IMO. I'm in the minority in my thinking, I'm sure but BAH!!!!!!! I don't care anymore. This looks great. If PR is your intent, I'd focus on the purple chairs in the background. They are what's making it less convincing for me.

[ODoul]

OOps, that and the radiosity artifacts on the railings on the 2nd floor. :-)

[greekdish]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents in....the only thing that really sticks out to me is the floor. It looks like one huge slab of marble under the entire lobby. I think you need to add a bump map, as well as a reflection map to look like marble blocks/tiles, so you can get some shape to it....otherwise, like I said, it looks like one huge solid piece. Nice work overall. :wavey:

[bobtronic]

That looks sweet Adam. Good work :thumbsup:
I agree with 3d_e about the purple chairs but thats all.

Bob

[JoelOtron]

In response to greekdish--I think bump map for the tile edges would be a bit too much--you wouldnt see that much dimension in reality. However, maybe a reflection map, diffusion map, and /or specularity map to subtly cancel the shininess where the tiles intersect might help---(stressing "subtly").

[AdamT]

Originally posted by JoelD
In response to greekdish--I think bump map for the tile edges would be a bit too much--you wouldnt see that much dimension in reality. However, maybe a reflection map, diffusion map, and /or specularity map to subtly cancel the shininess where the tiles intersect might help---(stressing "subtly").
Actually that's something I've been meaning to add, although as you say it has to be subtle. Thx!

[MaxP]

Originally posted by 3D_Explorer
My 2 cents. Photorealism is over-rated. It's very difficult to achive, for sure, but style and technique is more important IMO. I'm in the minority in my thinking, I'm sure but BAH!!!!!!! I don't care anymore. This looks great. If PR is your intent, I'd focus on the purple chairs in the background. They are what's making it less convincing for me.

Hi Adam, I agree with 3D_Explorer, the one thing that isn't working for me in this image are the purple armchairs (and the seat cusion in particular). These seem less photreal than the other elements. Other than that, the later images are a big improvement on the first WIP you posted. Looks great - I also like the spiral staircase that is visible at the corner of the main hall image.

[MJV]

Originally posted by AdamT
Thanks Flingster. Actually there are no SolidSplines in there. The railing is modeled in one section and repeated with MSA. I was going for wrought iron, but I like your ideas about mixing the materials. I think the scene could use a little variation. About the trashcans--to be honest I didn't give it much thought. At least in the US the ones I've used seem to be almost universal. :shrug:

Below is a detail shot. I tried to tone down the transparency of the glass block--but it's not enough I'm afraid. Also I haven't got around to fixing the textures and cushions on the lounge chairs.

I'm thinking for the animation I may do an NPR-type track and at the holds blend in the high-rez stills. Have to see what it looks like. I think it could be cool. :)



http://www.3danvil.com/Detail002.jpg

Wow Adam, you improved this so much. The table and the area around it look fabulous. Lighting is so much improved, very good. :thumbsup: Minor niggle is if the lamps are supposed to be on, then maybe they should be illuminating a little more. The purple chairs still need a better texture but I can tell that this is going to be really nice when you finish it.

[AdamT]

Thanks MV. I've much respect for your lighting skills, so it's much appreciated.

[kiwi]

Thats looking really good Adam :thumbsup:



Try shifting the purple on the chairs to a brown/orange,then I might also make the green strip in the marble more brown so none of the colours are competing or clashing.



The railings and the back window look to flat in specular to me,reason I say that is because you have enough light to show reflection in the floor and so we can see the wood is varnished so I think the railings {or parts in the mid grey} could do with a just a tad of tight specular to even them out with amount of light which the other materials are suggesting is in the room,then I think you have a winner :)



Stu.

[mrblifil]

Three things:

1) Glass bricks seem too receded. I've never seen any that are so deepset. What ever it is that is dividing them is too prominent and too uniform as well.

2) The glass brick divider texture and the upstairs railing are too alike. They cancel each other out. I need more glints of gold specularity on a darker iron railing. Also the railing could use some rounding at the square edges if you can stand to add any more polygons to the scene.

3) Gotta add some atmospheric haze ala etereaestudios (Cristobal Vila's) technique. (http://www.etereaestudios.com/docs_html/breakfast_11.htm)

Nice work.

Kevin

[AdamT]

Thanks Kiwi and mrblifil. As much as it pains me, I've got to agree with you. I'm definitely going to run that haze action when all's said and done--bookmarked it a few months ago.

[kiwi]

If you really like that purple Adam you could add a bit of lavender or darker to the lamp shade on the table and make the green marble strips yellow,you might get away with that.

[AdamT]

Originally posted by kiwi
If you really like that purple Adam you could add a bit of lavender or darker to the lamp shade on the table and make the green marble strips yellow,you might get away with that.

Hehe, too late--she's already gone green. :)

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