Roberto's Bullhorn: The Oceans Postmortem: LET’S TALK

[JasonTonks]

What did you liked about the last mini challenge?
I'd say, that a title like The Oceans, left us a big margin for creativity. Boundaries that are too precise tend to constraint my thinking, and I often won't participate if I can't think of a few end results that will make me laugh and be original. There are a ton of awesome beauty renders out there, but often they lack a story behind them. In my mind, a solid imagination is what makes an artist unique and excel in what he does best. Capturing the attention and imagination of even those most picky-nit-picking critics.



What you hated?
I didn't really hate anything. But I found it sad that some didn't take the time to come up with an original concept. They did one of the idea examples that you gave. I’ll use the examples of a Dragon and a Shark. These creatures have been done a gazillion times on forums, in tutorials and in movies/games. They don’t really have an impact anymore... all you can say is ‘’its cool or it’s well done’’ but nothing more. Unless you come up with an original twist to all these over done things, it won’t impress much or make a huge mark. If you want to impress a vast quantity of people and not just target a precise market of people, then use your imagination brothas. That’s just my opinion, which shouldn’t be taken personal what so ever. Just trying to be constructive in my criticism.



How could we foment more the community environment?
Tell your friends! Encourage people like your colleagues and students you mentor to participate!



Would you like to see more modelers spotlights or galleries?
Yeah!



Should we try to do group projects?
I’ve tried that many times with friends and colleagues, it doesn’t work too well.



How about meeting in person?
That would be really cool but unfortunately, most artists are broke orscattered all over the globe. Héhéh

What about online video conferences, we’ve used some free sites at work for cross studio meetings. It would only require the users to have a web came and mic.

[angel]

Jason, I mean no offense but I think that you are missing the point of this mini-challenge.

The goal is not to make a final image that tells a story, the goal is to better your modeling skills by mimicking a fictional studio deadline by creating a model for a client, that's it. For all intent and purposes the "client" is Roberto. Texturing and rendering are not needed but not discouraged.

To me the challenge looses its original intent when people try to come up with something that wasn't asked for like creating an original story or concept into a final image? Your image in this mini is awesome but how am I suppose to critique it? with all my years as a SCUBA diver I have never seen anything like that down below ;)

The topic was the oceans, not river, not lake not fish tank. It's quite simple yet the FAQ is full of questions that imho are self explanatory, Roberto did a great job stipulating what the challenge entailed and what it was about. A conceptual final image is to me beyond of the purpose of this mini challenge, that's what the big CGS challenges are for.

example: 30 models in 30 days, would you want to do a conceptual image that tells a story for each one of them? no; it's not what the "client" asked for.

Anyway, What I liked about the challenge: It gave me the chance to make something that I always wanted to do but never got around to it, just like my voltron for the 80's cartoon mini. The Frazetta tribute is an awesome idea, sadly I can not participate, bummer.

What I disliked: This is in general to the HCR forum: voting. To me this should be decided by the "client" maybe there can be a guest client, if your idea is chosen then you are the client for that mini. I don't know, I just don't see the point on voting and thus I never do. The Lighting mini has no voting whatsoever yet it is very successful. Maybe it is because of the way they handle crits...

Modeler spotlights and galleries is a good idea, maybe you can have a "guest" modeler to share some tips etc...

group projects? I barely have any time to do a single model by myself! lol

meeting in person? only if you pay my plane tix and stay to DC Roberto. Never been there before ;)

anyway, my 2 cents worth...
can't wait to see some of those wips for the next challenge!

[TheRazorsEdge]

What did you liked about the last mini challenge?
Great topic overall! I just love working on animal-related projects.


What you hated?
I agree wholeheartedly with Angel about the voting. There have been so many challenges in the past where not the best work, but the artist with the most supporters won. Other than that, I really hated to find that there are so very little decent references available for ocean creatures.


How could we foment more the community environment?
More constant advert somewhere on the main page, featuring ie the latest posted wip image.


Would you like to see more modelers spotlights or galleries?
Not really, I think that would detract from the challenges.


Should we try to do group projects?
Would be nice if it actually worked, which is rarely the case under "democratic" conditions.


How about meeting in person?
Sweet! Who's paying for travel and accomodation? lol

Cheers!

[TiMrozek]

What did you liked about the last mini challenge?

I thought it was a pretty good challenge. Overall the entries were of pretty high quality. The funny thing is that I like the challenges for almost the exact opposite reason as angel, so far they have had me create things I never would have created otherwise, A monkey making a sad face, me dead in a bathtub, and a squid and whale (maybe would have done this otherwise but it wasn't planned until the challenge).

What you hated?

The voting method could possibly be improved. I don't really mind voting by peers but, as Angel said, a lot of the times you probably do just get people who make an account to vote for friends. The second thing that I feel has been an issue with voting is that, sometimes it seems like people don't really look through everything. You get the feeling, especially with some of the lesser categories, that people just see what everyone else is voting for, then if it's decent then they just vote for it too. I think that if there is a way to do it in the poll style so the votes are private, you'd have a better system. I'm not saying winners tend to be undeserved at all, just that people probably have a tendency to be influenced by earlier votes.

How could we foment more the community environment?

This is a tough one, it seems like sometimes there are just challenges that draw out tons of people. Seems like it's usually the nostalgia challenges like 80's cartoon or star wars tributes that really get lots of people involved.

Would you like to see more modelers spotlights or galleries?

Hmm, how are you thinking of implementing this? Could be interesting. Modeler spotlights could be cool. It could give the participants/regulars, a bit of exposure and could also be a good resource for new modelers.

Should we try to do group projects?

I feel like this tends not to work, especially when done online. Group projects tend to work out best when it's people you can work together literally.

How about meeting in person?

Well, I already live in DC and have met Roberto before, so sure, I'll do a meet in person. If anyone does want to come to DC I can show them around at the very least. Just took a CG twitterer friend around for a Burger tour of DC. I have a roommate and kinda small place though so I can't guarantee a place to stay.

[JasonTonks]

No offense taken Angel. Yeah it totally makes sense what you said. I agree, It`s always pleasing the ''client'' that comes first at work. I also love your render, because you did just that, that extra rope detail coming out of the sharks mouth makes you think where did that come from, what did he eat or was he just flossing his teeth before someone took a picture of him. :-)

I'm asking myself this though, wouldn't more people participate in these challenges if there was a bit more liberty in what we can model? Having a more ''flexible'' client that makes these challenges seam less of a Job and more of a Concept-me something I wouldn't of though of?

I know many studios that out-source their concept art for these reasons. A fresh new mind that is out of the box often comes up with amazing ideas that the studio wouldn't of though of because they are too constraint to what the art director wanted in the beginning.

Does this make sense? I'd like to know what you think Roberto! :-P

Tonks

[GerR]

What did you liked about the last mini challenge?
Just the idea of a challenge. Gives me motivation outside of working on my demo reel.

What you hated?
Not big on realistic animals, but that is just personal preference.

How could we foment more the community environment?
Can't think of anything at the moment that wouldn't be too obtrusive.

Would you like to see more modelers spotlights or galleries?
It's not something that I would care about enough to see implemented, but I certainly wouldn't appose it.

Should we try to do group projects?
Don't think so, CGchallenge covers that pretty well already I think.

How about meeting in person?
I would love to meet people in person, especially now that I'm living in DC. I'm also going to be at Siggraph next month. :beer:

[TiMrozek]

Welcome to the area Bryan. Whereabouts in DC? Get a 3D job here? I'll be at Siggraph next month too. Anyone else?

[GerR]

Thanks Tim. I'm actually right outside of DC in Springfield. I just graduated from college, so I had to move back in with my parents for the time being. I'll be at Siggraph looking for a job, trying to get my foot in the door. After all, can't pass up an opportunity to network.

[RobertoOrtiz]

How about meeting in person?
I would love to meet people in person, especially now that I'm living in DC. I'm also going to be at Siggraph next month. :beer:
Ahemm....
DC SIGGGRAPH: Computer Animation Festival Screening on June 24 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=893219)

And ill be at SIGGRAPH too
:)
-R

[ryankittleson]

What did you liked about the last mini challenge?
good to practice


What you hated?
I had some issues with the administration of the challenge. the rules post was full of confusing, contradictory, and outdated info. The deadline getting pushed back without telling anyone who didn't happen to read deep into some thread was annoying.

[razeverius]

What did you liked about the last mini challenge?

supportive artists, even though I was new to zbrush, inspirational entries wips really helped me learn more in a way :D

What you hated?

That I was frustrated with my pace and that I didn't get to finish the challenge and I proposed quite a big scene that I didn't get to do

How could we foment more the community environment?

hhhmm can't really think of anything

Would you like to see more modelers spotlights or galleries?

I've seen a lot in previous challenges like 80's cartoons I'd love to see a lot of artists join again :D

Should we try to do group projects?

I haven't tried this out yet. Not sure about it too, since I don't really know that much yet compared to other artists :argh:

How about meeting in person?

That would be great one day. For now, can't.

[angel]

I'm asking myself this though, wouldn't more people participate in these challenges if there was a bit more liberty in what we can model?

I think that it is completely up to the theme. Maybe participation in this one wasn't as popular because it didn't "click" with enough people but other challenges certainly have. I don't know how effective your idea would be in challenges like the Frazetta one for example... maybe it would be good, maybe it wouldn't... don't really know, maybe testing it would be a good idea.

[DDS]

I think the Frazetta one certainly "clicks". Get some more chairs in the room, it might get crowded!!

[nsb]

WOW! I just goolged Frank Frazzetta, ashamed to say I didnt know the artist since now but have seen some of the art work here and there, huge fan of the arnie conan movies also. Was planning the skip the next challenge but are seriously considering it now :)

[TheRazorsEdge]

Yeah, the Frazetta Challenge will get crowded, I'm sure. That's the way it should be! No other artist who's work has continuously been denied the label of "fine art", has had so much influence on the modern art community like Frazetta. He almost single-handedly defined the branch of fantasy art. This challenge certainly is darn near impossible to pass by and I am looking forward to watching some amazing entries take shape.

So start researching now and pick well from the amazing wealth of his work!

Cheers!

[grantmoore3d]

I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to artists and their works, but after doing a quick Google search of Frazetta's work, I can't pass this one up! Really looking forward to starting this one :thumbsup:

[TiMrozek]

I look forward to watching the next one. Unfortunately, and fortunately, I have a few other things in the works so I won't be able to take part in this one. I'm sure it won't lack for involvement though.

[Intervain]

yeah, I'll be in the cheering seat as well - busy with other stuff. It should be fun to watch though

[quasiagent1]

Ahemm....
DC SIGGGRAPH: Computer Animation Festival Screening on June 24 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=893219)

And ill be at SIGGRAPH too
:)
-R

Gah! If I weren't leaving on a business trip Friday morning, I'd so be there... That said, it's great to see fellow artists in the DC area (I'm a Vienna fellow myself). I'd LOVE an in-person meeting of the DC folks at least...

I'll also be at SIGGRAPH this year.

[robo3687]

i thought it had been decided that 30 models in 30 days was the next challenge? i don't even know who frank frazetta is....lol


i'm also for the complete rewriting of the rules thread, as it has become a jumbled mess with elements left over from several past challenges and the "copy/paste" nature of it has led to it being confusing....

[SantoAnderson]

i thought it had been decided that 30 models in 30 days was the next challenge? i don't even know who frank frazetta is....lol

Think of a busty, scantily clad warrior woman carrying a giant sword and riding a tiger, and you're half way there.

http://esdev.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/frank_frazetta_savagepellucidar-434x560.jpg

[TheRazorsEdge]

Think of a busty, scantily clad warrior woman carrying a giant sword and riding a tiger, and you're half way there.

Aw, he's so much more than that, 'though that does indeed describe a good part of his work! lol

For those who need to catch up on their modern art general ed, check here for a solid collection of some of his works: http://frankfrazetta.org/
Last time I checked the official site was offline for some reason.

Cheers!

[grantmoore3d]

The more I look through his works, the more I am excited to start this one... it's exactly what I need to practice right now, lots of anatomy to be sculpted!!

[RobertoOrtiz]

i thought it had been decided that 30 models in 30 days was the next challenge? i don't even know who frank frazetta is....lol


i'm also for the complete rewriting of the rules thread, as it has become a jumbled mess with elements left over from several past challenges and the "copy/paste" nature of it has led to it being confusing....

When Frazetta died, and I could not let that go...
He inspired generations of fantasy and that put in the back burner 30 days 30 models (it will be the NEXT challenge).
And about the mistakes I have done in the past with the rules, I am aware of them.
I will be more careful in the future when I post the rules.

-R

[punchline]

man i've been watching this thread for a while now, waiting untill i learnt enough at school to take part in this challenge. can't wait and im very exited to get started and start getting my work out there. :)

[RobertoOrtiz]

ahem


We are live..
-R

[WyattHarris]

I've been so busy lately with a personal project I haven't had much time for dropping by. It really feels like something is missing lol. Anyway I think it's time to drop back in.

I think the Frazetta one certainly "clicks". Get some more chairs in the room, it might get crowded!!
Are you signing up Albert? About time I had some more first-hand lessons. :thumbsup:

[WyattHarris]

So I'm just looking through the gallery on Frank Frazetta's website (http://www.frankfrazetta.net). Man, he didn't make anything I can look at and think, "Oh, no problem, I can do that". These are all pretty intimidating.

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