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Renzsu
09-18-2003, 11:34 PM
Oh man, sorry if a post like this is not compliant with forum rules, but it's been a question that's been in my head for the whole day..

I only recently saw Bay's video/timelapse of Mirai and I was stunned with how easy/intuitive the modelling process seemed.

I'm wondering now, does Mirai still cut it between all the big tools of today? (Maya/XSI/Lightwave/3DS MAX) I want to know because I'm looking for a tool that permits this intuitive way of modelling and because I read things about Mirai development being kinda in the fridge.

I could ramble on without making much sense so err, please this is not a 'this tools is better than that tool', it's more like a 'is this tool worn out and should I get a new tool?' :blush:

Renzsu
09-18-2003, 11:46 PM
hmm... saw these threads:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18814&highlight=bayPlayMirai.avi

and

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83262

Hm.. Clay looks interesting?

Goon
09-18-2003, 11:48 PM
wings3d.com (www.wings3d.com)
We actually have a wings3d forum, go and check that out to

This is an imitation of nendo that has evolved past that and is supposedly similar to Mirai (it only poly models tho). Try it, it really rocks to use.

As for mirai, do a search of the forums. Rumors abound about Izware and Mirai 1.5 being used in LOTR and 2.0 coming out, but their site hasn't been updated since the spring and even that was the first time in years. A lot of people, myself included hope they make a come back, but they seem to have very poor business and advertising practices so things are pretty much up in the air.

Renzsu
09-18-2003, 11:53 PM
Yeah, I know about Wings ;) perhaps it was better to post this in the Wings forum as there are lots of people there who use other tools as well, but my main question was that I understand that a few years back, Mirai was apparantly much better than anything around at poly/sub-d stuff.. is it still up to it compared to the big tools?

Goon
09-19-2003, 12:43 AM
sorry. Your post wasnt clear as far as that.

As for Mirai being outdated, I only really use maya along with wings so my opinion isn't worth too much beyond that, and within it its still not too valuable, but it seems that most polygonal modelers are still trying to fully impliment the mirai type toolset. Maya still has to make use of external scripts and plugins just to make use of edgloop support. Lightwave still doesnt have edge support. The others I'm really only repeating what I've heard, but it only seems like similar, unoriginal methods to what Mirai and Wings use are being adopted.
There are a couple new poly modelers: Modo and Silo but of these Silo seems to imitate maya and needs to flesh out its feature set and Modo seems based on the premise of customization to imitate any platform or allow the user to make their own, so neither seem to really stand out as the next step in poly modeling.
If you are merely looking for the next generation of poly modeling workflow, modo might be worth looking into simply because it can be so customized (its not out quite yet)

I'm not sure how much you've been hanging around these forums in recent months, but the massive zbrush thread that passed through the main discussion forum is definitely worth checking out. Other than that poly modeling doesnt seem to be changing much.

Renzsu
09-19-2003, 12:51 AM
Thanks man for taking the time for that answer :) Yeah, from what I read about Maya that's the impression I got as well..

BazC
09-19-2003, 09:57 AM
I've not used Mirai, even if it was available it's Waaay out of my price range. But among those who have used it it's generally agreed that for Box modelling (and that's the only type of modelling it does) it's still the best app around.
Since you can't buy it (and the price was around $6000 when you could) Wings is the next best thing. Wings only weakness is that it doesn't handle really big meshes as well as the big name apps, though apparently Mirai suffers from slow down too.
I have a sneaking suspicion that modo will adopt a similar approach to modelling though that's only a guess and rumours about it's pricing point are positively scary ($700 from one source, sub $1000 from another) considering it's a modeller and texturing app only.
Silo has potential but it's workflow is nowhere near as sweet as Wings yet and using manipulators I'm not sure it ever will be.

Clay is the one that interests me the most, I suspect it's taking a Mirai/Wings kind of approach but no-one knows ANYTHING about it and it's a long way from being released, last estimate I heard was 2 years!

So my advice is check out Wings for Box modelling and use your existing app for everything else. Incidently, LOTS of pros with Lightwave, Maya, Max and XSI still do their Box modelling in Wings, it really is superb. It's not without it's quirks though, it is after all still at Beta stage. Hope that helps! - Baz

Renzsu
09-19-2003, 12:02 PM
Thanks for your answer, think I'll take your approach and play around with Wings (perhaps I can find an old copy of Mirai somewhere.. if you can't buy it at the moment, at least I can try to make some Mirai propaganda if it's that good :) oh well..)
I can still render with 3ds max, but if this software can rid me from using that annoying modify panel I'm happy :)

Peter Reynolds
09-20-2003, 02:37 AM
yeah, even though many apps have copied SOME aspects of Mirai (often they don't get it exactly right), Mirai still has some great tools that are nowhere to be seen in other apps.

It was way ahead of its time. In some respects other apps have caught up. In some respects they are still behind. And in some respects they are ahead.

For example - the Mirai renderer is probably in need of an update - or perhaps it should use MentalRay like maya and XSI.

Wings is a great little app.

But there's also more that a few of us hoping to see Mirai make a big comeback - it has some great modeling tools, and some excellent ideas when it came to blendshapes/morphs and animation.

I suspect we might hear something after Bay Raitt finishes his work for Return of the King.

Renzsu
09-20-2003, 03:29 PM
Thanks ;) Well I'm only interested in the modelling part anyways, perhaps animating/posing later, but rendering can be done in max for me, so I don't worry about that as well..
Seems wings is the way to go for now.. and man, that Clay is one piece of mysterious kit.. I've only seen it through a couple of screens of Ambient Whispers works..

puzzledpaul
09-20-2003, 04:02 PM
<< I suspect we might hear something after Bay Raitt // ... and the Izware coding team ... // finishes his work for Return of the King. >>

Just imo :)

pp


(Might also be of interest)
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64685&highlight=mirai+open+source

Renzsu
09-20-2003, 05:42 PM
Ah yes, I have read that thread, very interesting to say the least. Well all I can do is wait I guess to see what'll happen. It's not long before the movie will be out :)
Wings will keep me more than happy in the meantime, I tried it, and although I have to adjust to the gui, I like the way it works.

tjnyc
09-25-2003, 10:50 PM
Return of the King!? Seems forth telling if Mirai makes its long awaited return as well. They were suppose to have come out with the 1.5 version this summer, and then a 2.0 around next year(?). However, Izware's track record for delivery has been dismal so don't bet the farm on it yet.

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