Our own forum challenge?

[bobtronic]

I have seen these kind of challenge in several other
forums. And to be honest I never saw some really
good results. I like the challenges in the Blender-
Elysium forum. They have a weekend challenge and
the speed modeling challenge and sometimes a special
24hours challenge. For myself I like the idea of a
weekend challenge most. Someone has to make
the topic for example "Beach" and we have to create
a picture on the weekend. In the week is then the
voting.

cheers, Bob

[JamesMK]

Ah yeah, the weekend challenges at Elysiun are pretty fun. The best part is that it doesn't take up your time for an entire month, just those few days.

My vote for a C4D weekend challenge!

[flingster]

this forum is quite quiet on the weekends though.

i like the idea of starting off all the same place.
there was a radiosity thread were people played around with the file and got loads of different results which i loved..but was never a challenge...this can sometimes scare people off...myself included.
:shrug:

[modestmouse]

that would be great someone submits a model or scene every weekend and then the challenge is to whom can make it look the best or something like that!

[JamesMK]

Although that sort of 'pass-the-file' thing can be quite fun, it is also a bit too technically oriented, IMO.

The fun bit about a Weekend challenge style is that it is much more of an artistic challenge, that is, the most important thing is how you interpret and visualize the chosen theme.

And if weekends are too quiet, let's just make it into

The Weekday Challenge!

The theme of the week is published on monday, deadline is the following friday...

How'zat?

[grstovell]

my vote is for the weekday challenge too...

and I love the idea of making it more of a modeling challenge rather than a texturing/lighting focus.

-g

[bobtronic]

Weekday challenge sounds interesting. That is enough
time to make a good picture. Now we only need more
challengers. I think it would be really fun.

Bob

[Halogen]

Im up for it, but im not keen on the tweaking scene idea. Maybe present a topic on sunday, and share on saturday. Many of us have busy lives, so its not like the models have to be perfect and huge. Sort of like a cgfightclub but for weekdays :)

[prayas]

c4dcgfightclub? hmmm yes. that would be some fun.
never find enough time to join a full cgtalk challenge and
i for myself didn't like any of the themes later than the LOTR challenge.

Maybe i just join a short challenge more often.

P..:

[handige_harrie]

Yeah the window-light thread was amazing, learned a lot there.

I like the idea of everyone getting the same model and doing indivual lighting/materials/rendering.

Reproduction of existing (cg)art can also be great, I tried to reproduce two Thomas Suurland images (check my site) and learned a whole lot. The downside is that it isn't very creative ofcourse :rolleyes:.

Originally posted by prayas
c4dcgfightclub? hmmm yes. that would be some fun.
never find enough time to join a full cgtalk challenge and
i for myself didn't like any of the themes later than the LOTR challenge.

Maybe i just join a short challenge more often.

P..:

rule number 1: you do not talk about c4dcgfightclub :p

[JIII]

sorry to pop your bubble but I am almost cerain that C4Dcgfightclub would not work..


Maybe a weekly thing or something. However even the general non app specific fight club died a painful death.

[prayas]

Ok maybe these type of challenge would have the problem to get enough people in @ the same time. The cgtalk challenges i joined used to be 90% done in two or three days the rest of the time it was just reacting on peoples thoughst and suggestions.

I don't call it fight club i that name has been allready used for something that wasn't successfull. Maybe find a different name for this.

@handige_harrie

Why do you like to reproduce something allready done? This is something i definatly won't do for a challenge. Doesn't everybody has his own ideas?

P..:

[handige_harrie]

Originally posted by prayas
@handige_harrie

Why do you like to reproduce something allready done? This is something i definatly won't do for a challenge. Doesn't everybody has his own ideas?

P..:

The reproduction of those Suurland images I did more or less because someone challenged me by saying C4D couldn't equal fR renders. So you see I had to prove them wrong ;).

Nevertheless I learned a great deal, and if you have to cope with a lack of inspiration it is a good way to start creating ideas.

It's pretty much the same as recreating cars or other real-life objects. "I like that, see if I can make that in C4D". Sometimes you try to perfectly match it and sometimes you alter some things the way you like it.

[JamesMK]

Reproductions definitely have an educational value, me thinks...

But as a challenge it might not be too exiting, but that's another story.

[grstovell]

just wondering...

cgfightclub died a painful death?

I recently discovered 3dfightclub - it has what seems to be quite a few members... and their daily / weekly fights / and sidebysides are good to keep you on your toes... great people in that forum too!


-g


ps- So... a c4d challenge... when do we start??????:wip: :wip:

[JamesMK]

Originally posted by the Rev.
So... a c4d challenge... when do we start??????:wip: :wip:
Well, we decide the rules, the first theme and off it goes!

Rules RFC:

- Make an image relevant to your interpretation of the theme.
- Use any 3D-tools at your disposal, but the final render must be made with Cinema 4D
- Subtle postprocessing such as level adjustments, multipass compositing and similar procedures are allowed

- The Theme of the week is published by the last winner, except for the very first theme, of course
- The Theme is to published here in a thread named "Weekday Challenge #n - The Theme" on a sunday
- Challengers reply in this thread, first by telling they are going to participate, and later on by posting their finished image
- The images must be posted no later than the following saturday
- A winner is chosen by the use of a poll in a separate voting thread.

The only problem here is that there needs to be some time for people to vote. And the winner is supposed to choose the next theme. So I guess the Challenge would have to be bi-weekly to allow one week of voting. The person selecting the theme can of course not participate, or will at least not be able to receive any votes.

Discuss.

[grstovell]

Not bad... I like it - especially the part of the bi-weekly challenge.

Here's one question and maybe a proposal....

"Challengers reply in this thread, first by telling they are going to participate, and later on by posting their finished image"

Does this mean these are going to be no-WIP challenges? (with only 2 posts?) If so... what are we going to do with the second week but to critique what happened during the first? I think it would be cool to look at the process as well as the finished image.

If there are no WIPS allowed... who will I ask the question "wires please" to?:cry: :cry:

-g

[bobtronic]

Originally posted by JamesMK
The person selecting the theme can of course not participate, or will at least not be able to receive any votes.


Why not? I mean this is just for fun, right? So I see no
motivation for cheating.

[bobtronic]

I forgot to mention that I like the other rules.

[JamesMK]

OK, then :)

Most rules unchanged (so far, more comments please)

Revisions:

- The guy selecting the new theme IS allowed to participate and receive votes later on
- Participants start their own threads named "WDC #n - Username" in which they post WIP's until deadline. The last image posted in each persons thread is considered to be the actual entry image
- It is required to ask each participant for wires at least once before the week is over :D

Discuss!

[JamesMK]

Oh, I forgot:

- No previously created stuff may be used. Only new, fresh geometry for each challenge. This does not apply to bitmap textures (you're bound to have some old but good stuff you want to reuse)

[JIII]

mmm yummy fresh geometry.


lol

yea I like how this is sounding.

[squidinc]

I think if this going to be a pleasant experience we need our own sub catergory for it, same deal as the tutorials and plugins areas, and someone will have to maintain it, as jamesmk seems to be the loudmouth I vote he does it :D

[grstovell]

should there be any mention of 3rd party 'instant-mesh' software such as bryce and poser? --- just in case (not that I would:twisted: )

-g

[squidinc]

Originally posted by the Rev.
should there be any mention of 3rd party 'instant-mesh' software such as bryce and poser? --- just in case (not that I would:twisted: )

-g

yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck

[grstovell]

squidinc wrote:
I think if this going to be a pleasant experience we need our own sub catergory for it, same deal as the tutorials and plugins areas...


I agree wholeheartedly! we need a subcategory for this... otherwise some threads are going to get lost in the forum.

You also wrote:
, and someone will have to maintain it, as jamesmk seems to be the loudmouth I vote he does it.

Motion has been made for jamesmk to maintain and moderate the c4dbiweekly challenge. I second the motion. No further discussion...

all in favor signify by saying 'aye'

[JIII]

AYE MATEY.

AVAST THERE MR.DEPP IS NO.1 ONE AGAIN.

w00t.

[bobtronic]

"AYE", and I hope, JamesMK, you see the honor in this
delegation :)

And yes, we need a subcategory for this.

Bob

[grstovell]

... all opposed?


seeing none... the motion carries!!!!!!


Mr. JamesMK... Get to work! On the double! time is money! chop, chop! (you get my point)... we need a challenge!

-g

[flingster]

lol

[ODoul]

I LOVE this idea, however, we should ban Squid ;) ;) We all need a chance to win. heh heh. -- 3d_e

[WSzP]

This forum challenge thing is a good idea. I like it.

[JamesMK]

Aha... ummm... Okie. I see the honor here of course.... Loudmouth, eh? *grrrrr*

So, my first mission will be to ban that invertebrate squiddly thing then? Did I get that right? :D

[squidinc]

er... did I say loudmouth?! I er.. meant.. leader.. yes :D

[pit]

Some thoughts on the rules:
I think we should take over some of the rules from the CGTalk challenges - a lot of thoughts have gone into them, so they can´t be bad.

C4D only!
Plugs and modules allowed - including S&H.
Post allowed.
Concept/drawing/doodle is a must.
Thread must show progress.
Modeling only - no textures, except bump and displacement.
(The next challenge could then be texturing/lighting the model)
No use of previous models/ free models etc. - character and props from scratch.
One final image format. For example 800x600 px.

that´s it - so far.

[Peoples]

Wow - I've been gone for 24hrs and we've already got 3 pages!! Okay - seems like the democracy has decided to go with the "usual" challenge - thats fine, allthough a challenge with a same model for everyone and a free creative challenge on a certain subject are IMO two very different things - the first one beeing a challenge that meters the users abilities to make a model look good, render- and lightningwise - sort of "let's see who can really master this programs capabilities", and for that you don't even have to bee that creative, If someone lacks a few cards in that department. The "usual" modelling challenge is much harder but then again maybe a lot more interesting. But the reason I started this topic was that I sort of wanted to see my level, where I stand w/ cinema...

BUT - hey, I'm not wining - whattaheck! Let's get that sub-thread going and the first Theme??:beer:

[pit]

and the first Theme??

Yeah - let´s get some ideas up front.

Alien pets
Alter ego
Angels
Ah...ah..on second thought...

might be wiser to check if there is general interest and if it´s "doable". ThirdEye....Kaiskai?

[bobtronic]

I think there is general interest. In the weekday-poll thread
voted 44 forum members. Let the games begin.

Kai, Thirdeye, what are you thinking about this ?

cheers, Bob

[JIII]

lets just use the winner of the thread and then let the first winner choose it, its easier to just follow that poll that actually having to make a real decision.

[JamesMK]

Originally posted by pit
Modeling only - no textures, except bump and displacement.
- - -
One final image format. For example 800x600 px.
Is there a general consensus about these items?

I don't mind "modeling only", though texturing and lighting is quite an interesting bit too. With the limited timeframe, it might be a good idea to focus on modeling of course...

"One image format only" is not my cup of tea. I'm really into weird proportions and wouldn't like that bit (of course, one could always crop and put back on a black background with the desired format, but that's pretty strange...)

Comments? Oh, the democracy.... :D

[artemesia66]

couldn't we have some that are modelling only, and some that allow textures, or are about textures ie. best glass challenge?

[JIII]

well lets see... two challenges a month by the time we get through all the modeling ideas and then finally get around to doing the texturing and lighting things.... well lets just say it might be next year before this happens.


Lets lump it all together, This is art anyway do we honestly need to put restrictions on sizes and formats etc?? personally as long as its not as big as 10000 * 10000 it will probibly be fine.

[JamesMK]

That's a good point. The technical requirements can simply change from one challenge to the next. The winner decides not only the theme, but also how to go about with texturing and so on.

The question now, before proceeding, would be some feedback from the mods about creating a new subforum and so on.

[pit]

@JamesMK:
My proposal was, that the first challenge would be modeling only and, eventually, the next challenge would be to texture/light that model. You are "forced" to focus on one aspect then, which can only be a benefit to the learning/challenge side of things IMO.
Cheers

[JamesMK]

Pit, I hear'ya! Solid thinking there, bud. :)

[JIII]

my point to you pit, is that we will never have time to do a real focus.

Unless we want to do something like have the winner of a modeling contest post the object and then have a contest to texture it and then another one to light it and then another one to make the arcitecture for it andt he enviornment and all that.

I progressive challenge like that might be very interesting.

[JIII]

correction a real focus on everything that would be good to focus on. anyway its good any way you look at it.

[pit]

It would indeed be tiresome to make a complete follow through on one model over weeks - and only the people who joined the initial challenge would be able to participate. My point is to split challenges up in 2 chunks max and then go on with a completely different aspect and theme.

At some point a FX challenge would be cool or hard edge modeling challenge/ low poly challenge/ walkcycle challenge / facial expression challenge/ Xpresso challenge etc. ... get the idea? Get around the package by the means of challenges. I for my part have focused on modeling and there are so many aspects I´d love to learn - Xpresso and TP for instance. Would be cool to learn from Sadie or Srek during a challenge week!

Being only a week you really have to focus on one aspect to make it click.
You can learn a lot in one week if you are "forced" to focus and you´ll have some basics to build upon afterwards. The learning experience is the important part - not the result/the model /whatever. My 2 cents.

[JamesMK]

Pit, you are making more and more sense with each new post - are you on drugs or something? ;)

[artemesia66]

@ pit ( and everyone)

yeah, i like this idea of focussing on different aspects of CG from week to week. forces you to come to grips with ALL aspects, rather than falling back on your "strengths"

[That Adrian Guy]

Times like this I wish I was unemployed.

I'd be all over this (g'damn rent needs to learn how to pay itself)

[pit]

Pit, you are making more and more sense with each new post - are you on drugs or something?

LOL!!
Yeah - and I like it!
Not the making sense part - the drugs! Nice colors surround me - I have the sudden urge to get naked and hug trees ....hrmmm .. excuse me!
See you guys tomorrow!

[JIII]

ya pit is on drugs, either that or he isn't a monky but dr. spock.

i.e this had better be logical.

[bobtronic]

Whats up. I thought most of us liked the idea of a challenge.

Cheers, Bob

[grstovell]

I SECOND!! (I think I'm hooked on Robert's Rules of Order!!!)

Yup... I'm ready. Anyone else?

-g

[JIII]

yea seriously why has this died out.


its a great Idea why not just run a few challenges to see where it leads us.

[pit]

Who is Robert?:curious:

[grstovell]

WHO IS ROBERT?


If this was a rhetorical question... then, yes! I agree, Robert's rules have no place in a place like this.

If it wasn't.... Robert's rules are the standard for conducting meetings in which formal proposals and election of officers of an organization take place. It's a preety good method for keeping things orderly.

BUT THE REAL POINT IS.... Where is the challenge? Mr. JamesMK... any word from the Mods?

-g

[pit]

Oh - THAT Robert :D
Me :arteest:

[JamesMK]

Originally posted by the Rev.
BUT THE REAL POINT IS.... Where is the challenge? Mr. JamesMK... any word from the Mods?
Umm... haven't really asked about it yet... Been sort of preoccupied with other matters. On the other hand, wouldn't Kai or Thirdeye have read this thread anyway? Maybe I should drop a PM in their general direction.

That aside, once the subforum has been set up, I guess we should simply start a modeling challenge right away, without further delay, just to get it rolling...

[flingster]

heh heh..the poor guy only just got the job and already he's taking hassle...makes you wanna want the responsibility. give the guy a break....

come JamesMK what you waiting for...:eek:
:rolleyes:

[JIII]

well if you guys want your own subforum or whatever or sticky thing ask third and kai

However I doubt we would ever get our own sub forum, the admins do not having forums become isolated.

[JamesMK]

He he... No problem here, guys! :)

Anyway, I PM'd Kaiskai, so we'll await his official answer....

[JIII]

lol use MSN instead it seems to be faster.

[grstovell]

Hey James! Nothing meant by hurrying you up or putting any pressure... It's all fun and games...:beer:

now, that said...
chop chop man! I need my challenge fix...

provided it is allowed obviously.

-g

[JIII]

Chop Chop violent thoughts from you?

a man of god who would have thunk it.

Anyway yea the faster this starts the faster I am startin.

If that made any sense at all.

[JamesMK]

Originally posted by JIII
Anyway yea the faster this starts the faster I am startin.

If that made any sense at all.
It does make sense. That's an example of what's known as a tautology - a statement that is necessarily true, because it is true by virtue of its logical form alone - similar to "if it starts to rain, it's going to be raining".

Chopping and chopping! :)

[LucentDreams]

If third eye likes the idea, perhaps he can set one up for you guys, but as for myself I don't agree to the idea of a C4D only challenge. Cgtalk is a community, and I see no reason to try and be exclusive. There are challenges here already, your all free to participate, please keep in mind this is a small part of a larger community.

Why are so many in the C4D forum innsistent on being a seperate exclusive group? I see no reason to further exclude the c4D specific section from the rest of the community.

[prayas]

some idea on that "exclusive group" sh**.
Maybe it is because being treated like poser and bryce users. (Sorry don't want to offend poser and bryce users)
Nothing bad on these guys but it's sometimes not nice to get the feeling your app of choice has not the real big brand name. Nobody says to me : Wow you can handle maya/max/LW that good. Like to do some work for me?

They say hmm i can't use data out of cinema i have only max around here. get you max and learn it.

Just one thing i experienced therefore i like to stay in c4d usergroups mostly although cgtalk is quite different. More open people around here and more experienced c4d user that provide any help you want. enough of that. don't take this offensive(right word).

Just like to say that the idea is nice but Kai is damn right with that community thing. Maybe just do a battle character in this. Anyone can show his, work there are some rules the gentleman have to follow. No need for subforum!

Me thinks so any comments?
P..:

[grstovell]

I agree, but only to a certain point.

Indeed Cgtalk is a great community, and there is no need for exclusivity... on the other hand, I don't think a need to be separate, different or exclusive is what drives the interest regarding a c4dchallenge and a subforum.

One of the things that encourages me to post here as opposed to the postforum is the C4Dcommunity that posts here. You rarely get to post a WIP without getting useful feedback. Cgtalk has grown so much that it is very easy for a good challenge entry or WIP to get lost among all the others who post.

Maybe it is the need for feedback from those who use the same tools as you do that fuels the request for a bi-weekly app specific challenge.

There may be a 'happy medium'... Maybe there is no need to start a sub-forum, but simply 3 sticky threads every couple of weeks. One where everyone posts their WIP (and wires!!! )and others comment, the second where everyone posts their final image, and the third where everyone votes.

That said, if others also feel this would hurt rather than help C4D's presence in Cgtalk, then my vote would be to cancel the challenge idea.

-g


PS- At the very least the proposal makes the C4D's forum the best culturally rounded forum in Cgtalk!!!!! See? Now we all know what both Robert's Rules of Order and a tautology are!!!!!:beer:

[JamesMK]

It could also be viewed as a challenge based on the technology that is Cinema 4D. That is, the WIP-threads would be quite technical, where everyone explain more about their specific methods, tools of choice for different modeling needs etcetera.

That would motivate keeping it "exclusive" since every application has its own set of peculiar tools. This is in opposition of the official CGChallenge which has a more 'artistic' focus, that is, we don't talk much about the exact methods used if they tend to be application specific.

In the C4D Challenge, you are required to be application specific, so we could all learn from each other - it turns into a tips & tricks thing, sort of.

That said, I agree that we shouldn't isolate ourselves from the rest of the community. The different opinions about Cinema, as mentioned by prayas, can only be put back on the right track by staying out there, outside of this subforum, and show everybody that C4D is the industrial-strength, capable application we all already know it is.

And Rev -> You'll be assigned to handle the upcoming "Word of the day"-sticky! :D

[JIII]

I dunno maybe I want to be isolated kai ;).


but yea I just want it because I am too lazy to point my browser away from this (my hompage).

[bobtronic]

And so dies a nice idea :(

I agree with JamesMK that a application specific challenge
could help us to improve our skills with this application.
There is also no weekly challenge on CGtalk. The two
months of the Classic Challenge are too long for many
people. Maybe we could do such a challenge on C4Dportal.

cheers, Bob

[chi]

i'm going to have to agree with kai here, and im going to strongly disagree with jamesmk, about the sharing of knowledge..as with in this forum there is a large number of people who freely share their creation process if you just ask, so what would be the point of distancing ourselves from others of the forum...mabey there is a reason why no one ever respects c4d...the users that do show there work outside of this forum often get good reviews, and quite a bit of c4d work has mad frontpage, sometimes by users that have barely posted in this forum; and c4d has always gotten good reviews, and has been used for lots of major projects.
:shrug:

[JamesMK]

I may have been unclear somehow - I never said that CGTalk members as a whole would "hold back" on sharing techniques, since it's quite the opposite. I just finished my first CGChallenge, and there was a whole lot of sharing going on in all directions.

But in all honesty, it's not toooooo interesting for people using Max only, for instance, to hear about the exact steps used to set up a Mocca soft IK rig for example... Or the other way around: I'm not awfully interested in knowing the esoteric technical details of Maya shader networks, since none of that applies to C4D, which I happen to be using.

Anyway, that sort of application specific sharing is what would justify a C4D-only challenge, if anything.

BUT, and I repeat - BUT - this is not something I would like to argue about. If we can do a challenge of our own - jolly good! If not - that's OK too.

[LucentDreams]

Funny, how many times have I said that if people bought the maya fast rigs DVD I wouldn't need to make the rigging CD.

Very rare that a tut from one doesn't apply to another, Shades of Cel was inspired by techniques I saw in Maya and Max tuts, before i was even using maya and when I wasn't to familiar with all of max, so don't say you need to know the other app either to interpret tuts.

SO maya connects shaders with a tree node system, doesn't make it much different form building a shader in C4D, but each branch in C4D needs a fusion to branch out.

But I think the original Idea was that the software specific problems are to get help with software specific problems, the technique forums were designed for sharing techniques (where did I learn a lot about rigging, the riggin forum,) the challeneges are designed to challenge your skills.

[JamesMK]

Well, I rest my case.

The Classic Challenge was fun enough for me anyway, so... :)

[grstovell]

ok.... I'll rest my case too.

bummer... I'm really going to miss the 'word of the day' thread.;)

-g

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