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steveskittles
05-09-2010, 12:10 AM
Hey guys i been working in 3d for a while now and im basically still a complete novice. I do enjoy working with 3d but when i try anything of any significant difficulty i quickly become lost and confused. I never really thought of it before but i think it might have something to do with me having basically no knowledge of form and topology. One of the main reasons i wanted to get into 3d was to create things that i imagine in my head, i thought 3d would be more suited to me as i am no good at drawing.

But now im thinking this could be one of the vital components of becoming better with 3d. My mind struggles to project 3d images on a piece of paper and i always thought it would be easier working within a 3d environment to construct my scenes and objects. Do you guys think i should consider studying the foundations and principles of drawing before i try to tackle any new projects? Also i anyone has links or suggestions to beginner drawing content that would be great.

Lunatique
05-10-2010, 12:46 PM
Regardless if you learn to draw or not, you MUST learn the foundations, because one of the biggest misconceptions that struggling 3D artists have is that they don't realize 3D is still visual art, and all visual art share the same foundations--from drawing, painting, design, photography, 3D, to whatever.

The reason why many people say learning to draw/paint will greatly help your 3D is because in 3D, nothing forces you to learn the foundations of visual art, and you are in fact knee deep in learning all the technical aspects of operating a 3D software. But in 2D, if you don't learn the foundations, you can barely draw or paint anything--so you are forced to learn the foundations.

While it's possible to learn the foundations without learning to draw/paint, it's far more useful to actually learn the foundations by drawing and painting, because then you have an additional skill that's incredibly useful and rewarding. You'd be surprised by how many 3D artists who started to learn to draw and paint and then realize that it's far more rewarding than 3D and then jump ship altogether. I've seen this happen over and over and over, where once a 3D artist becomes a good 2D artist, he just treats 3D like a job and drawing/painting becomes his real passion.

steveskittles
05-10-2010, 05:23 PM
Cheers for that, its exactly what i needed to hear. The reason im not so good at 3d is because i find it hard to look at an object and break it down into it basic components. Also the fact i never have a rough concept of my project its basically impossible for me to achieve anything interesting. I jumped straight into 3d thinking "im no good at drawing, maybe 3d will suit me" but like you said without the foundations of visual art my endeavors where already flawed.

Drawing and painting always interested me but i made the same mistake i did with 3d. I just tried to draw!! no training, no knowledge of what i was doing and basically convinced myself i couldn't draw. From glancing through the Andrew Loomis books i seen that all drawing have some form of guidelines from which to work from. I only downloaded the books yesterday so my plan now for the next few weeks (months) is to study these and try bash out a few sketches every week. Maybe by the time i start to get better at drawing, ill see 3d in a different light. Cheers for your input Lunatique.

Edit: Also just curious if the loomis books are a good starting place? Im new to all this so if you have suggestions for starting material that would be great.

IgnacioMc
05-11-2010, 01:22 PM
Yes, the Loomis books are a very good way to start.

steveskittles
05-12-2010, 02:23 PM
I was thinking of starting with the structure of man by Riven Phoenix. Mainly because he teaches in great detail how to create a good structure and i notice the Loomis books do this too but not in as much detail. So im gonna start with Riven then use the loomis techniques to build upon this structure.

IgnacioMc
05-13-2010, 01:17 PM
I started with the Structure of Man DVD's, after I got to about video 100, I had the confidence and ability to start exploring and expanding my knowledge of drawing the human figure, I practiced a lot with Riven Pheonix's course.
That is when I started using the Loomis books, How to draw comics the Marvel way and Burne Hogarth books.

steveskittles
05-17-2010, 07:27 PM
Also iv got a wacom tablet but im thinking maybe its not such a good idea to use this for my early drawings and study, i mean im not even that comfortable using a pencil and getting nice clean strokes and things are just looking messy on the tablet. Im thinking i should leave the tablet work until iv become more used to the good ol pencil and paper.

What do i need to get started? is it just a simple pencil and paper or is there other tools people use all the time?

conbom
05-17-2010, 09:54 PM
You'd be surprised by how many 3D artists who started to learn to draw and paint and then realize that it's far more rewarding than 3D and then jump ship altogether.

That happened to me actually, 3 years into a digital 3D design degree. We did a little bit of drawing throughout the course, when it came to creating environments and characters in 3D I would always get really frustrated that my concept looked amateur and would get really obsessive about getting the concept right before going in full 3D (which never happened ). This actually really hampered my 3D work believe it or not. Even now I get an idea for a 3D project I sketch something out then completely lose interest with the idea or deem it not worthy and do something else. Alas i landed a job as a concept artist so im most certainly not complaining. I will probably not go back seriously to 3D now i just dont think i have the paitentce or the ability to detatch the concept phase from the production, 2D ruined my interest in 3D its the honest truth. It was a dream since i was 16 lol.

Actually most of the 3D artists i know don't draw or paint with pen and paper in the traditional sense much at all actually, they are still fantastic at drafting and sculpting though(with geometry). So by all means dont forget about design, anatomy, costume and so on (im constantly amazed at the fantastic reference i see 3d guys pull up). Its vital to have a good sense of aesthetics and function not so much an ability to project 3D objects on a piece of paper. Im being serious about that. Having said that its a lot easier to learn anatomy with a piece of paper and a pencil as others described

My recommendation is to find some good concepts, inspiration and reference then flesh out and intelligently realise something. Thats usualy the task of the 3D artist in a professional arena, a good one anyway to take a rough concept, expand on it and make it really sing. If you really want to be a good character/creature artist, get learning that anatomy and structure. Loomis is great. So is Villpu

Just my 2cents, by no means gospel though.

P.S screw the wacom, a good A5 moleskin sketchbook a clutch or mechanical pencil and a putty eraser is all you need ! Get drawing! hehe

steveskittles
05-17-2010, 11:40 PM
Cheers man, at present im just beginning and taking things slow. Im trying not to look to far ahead and just take it day by day. The riven pheonix dvd's i have go into great detail when it comes to anatomy so ill learn that in time. I was planning on devoting a good bit of time each week to drawing, but im working mad hours in work so i can pay for my college fee's so ill try squeeze time in when i can.

I was going through one of the loomis books today and one of the things im finding hard is the fact that its teaching me to draw cartoonish characters with non realistic proportions, which might be fine later on but seeing as im only new i think ill stick with learning about the actual human figure first.

One of my main area of interest is environments, so im wondering if many of the skills from Riven Phoenix's dvds will transfer to environment design?

Lunatique
05-18-2010, 07:25 AM
I was going through one of the loomis books today and one of the things im finding hard is the fact that its teaching me to draw cartoonish characters with non realistic proportions, which might be fine later on but seeing as im only new i think ill stick with learning about the actual human figure first.

One of my main area of interest is environments, so im wondering if many of the skills from Riven Phoenix's dvds will transfer to environment design?

You're probably talking about Fun with a Pencil, which is aimed at a younger audience. Figure Drawing For All It's Worth is aimed at a more mature audience. For environment design, Successful Drawing will help you understand perspective.

In general, if your main interest is environments, then you should study architecture, interior design, lighting, perspective, landscape...etc.

As for tablets, I think it's a good idea to do both. When you are away from the computer, use traditional drawing tools, and when at the computer, use the tablet. Drawing is drawing, and both digital and analog tools will get the job done just fine. Plenty of people can draw/paint very expressively with tablets.

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