Upgrade to v11?

[John Keates]

I gave as many options as I could think of but I apologise if there should be more (usually should).

The reasons that I am asking are that I was turned down when I asked for a free upgrade (although I was told that I was "good value" to Hash). Also, I am seeing fewer bug fixes at the moment and it looks like Hash are playing with v11 code already when AM10.5 is still shakey (as far as I am concerned).

Oh, and I am sorry about my spelling of earned.

[Squeakypics]

I fall into the 'don't know' category I'm afraid.
AM has been getting me down of late especially the modeling. I've been going nuts trying to model smooth stuff that can be animatable. I'm currently getting a bit of light relief playing with ZBrush and Wings/Silo and it is starting to look like I am more at home with volume modeling (It is actually more like the way I draw)
Still.. I've invested lots of time and money in AM and it does have many, many strong points. (And I'm not sure I'm ready to start again with Messiah)

[Kricket]

I voted yes.

The more I've been playing with 10.5 the more I grow to like it. It's starting to feel like I'm working with 8.5 again. Except now I've got multi-directional smartskin, multipass, a better renderer and now dynamic constraints. (LOVE these things, throwing them everywhere)

Yea it crashes every once in a while.. but I've been a Hasher since v4 so It's pretty much automatic for me to hit 'Save' at least once a minute. (sometimes more)

I was working on my character yesterday when I realized the new Porcelain *is all that*. I dont have to hide behind the toon renderer to get rid of those creases. It aint Sub-D polys but it's not too shabby.

http://demented3d.com/chibi-katrina.jpg
No more toon shader for Katrina! She's been to the dermatologist!

If Hash can just fix those stability problems I'll be an extremely happy customer, but til then I'm willing to work through them. I cant wait to see what new stuff will be introduced next year with v11.

[pengwin]

I voted yes...erm...if I can afford it.

I'm unemployed at the moment, so I have to justify EVERY penny that's spent.

I've only been a hasher for a few months, but I think its an excellent app. I've tried 3DS, Lightwave, C4D (still use this one ;) ) and a few not so well known packages, but most of my work now is done with AM.

I agree, it could be more stable, but then so could so many other apps that people use daily. Like Kricket, I regularly hit save, so its not too much of a problem.

[John Keates]

Nice work! How did you get the look of the clothes to be like that?

[Kricket]

Create a gradient material, set Start and End XYZ's all to 0. Pick a dark color for the top surface, a lighter for the 2nd. Set the Gradient Threshhold to 40% or so.

When you do that the material will mostly look like the top surface, but the edges will be the bottom. Playing with the edge threshhold will give you different intensities.

[John Keates]

Cheers for the tip.
I think that I remember that model from a tutorial showing how to use lag to make the clothing wobble. Are you using dynamic constraints instead now? Also, I remember that you use Lightwave. Do you bother with it now that AM has improved?

[Kricket]

Yeap, replaced all the lagged constraints with dynamics and they work perfectly.

I don't use LW/Messiah too much anymore. Rigging and animation is faster and easier in AM.

[Hookflash]

If Hash can increase stability alot by v11, then I'll definately upgrade. On the other hand, if v11 just turns out to be "10.5 with a few extra 'features' which may or may not work", forget it. 9.x -> 10.x was a good upgrade. Hopefully Hash will continue in that direction.

P.S. I'm in a bitter mood because I just finished going through almost a dozen crashes over the past hour with A:M 10.5i. Booleans are cranky:annoyed:

[John Keates]

Boleans? ooooh, stay away. I never even touched those. Heard nothing but bad reports of them. Do they still not work with shadows? I tell you though, if they did then making windows would be a hell of a lot easier.

Hey, It looks like a lot of people are choosing to support hash. Just goes to show that even when a lot of people are bashing the company, there is still belief in it.

[ngrava]

V11? Did I miss something? was there some news about it's release or some metion of features?

-=GB=-

[Kricket]

Originally posted by ngrava
V11? Did I miss something? was there some news about it's release or some metion of features?

I havent heard anything.. but the end of the year is coming up soon, wouldnt be surprised to see a v11 beta pop up within the next couple weeks.

[alfiebabes]

I skipped a version (10) after there wasn't a manual. If version 11 ships with a decent manual I'm definitely in. Hope to have a G5 to try AM out on.. woohoo!

[Pablo]

I think there will be no manual in v11, it only exists an online manual like this one for 10.5 http://www.hash.com/htmlHelp/v10.5/Technical_Reference.htm

[Obnomauk]

Originally posted by John Keates
Boleans? ooooh, stay away. I never even touched those. Heard nothing but bad reports of them. Do they still not work with shadows? I tell you though, if they did then making windows would be a hell of a lot easier.

they work fine with shadows both raytraced and z-buffered I am using hierarchical booleans as a solution to egg shaped eyes in my current characters. Since you can't just rotate an egg in a socket and I wanted to maintain round iris/pupil shapes cutters cut the iris in and I can tell it to leave everything else on the model alone. works like a charm.

-David Rogers

[John Keates]

Ooops, sorry. I remember that the person who was doing that mushroom cloud was having problems with shadows and booleans. Looks like it is fixed now though.:buttrock:

[gra4mac]

I didn't vote because you didn't put a wait and see option. I'm finding 10.5h fairly stable for most of what I am doing now, so upgading isn't high on my list right now.

[Bugle]

I do not plan to upgrade until late 2004 in any case, and if 10.5 is abandoned with large outstanding reported bugs I will probably seriously consider becoming a lightwave user.

If that happens I won't be around to bitch anymore :)

[nerrazzi]

I was going to buy LW but decided to go with Maya because of it's "FEE-NOM-INAL POWER". Version 5 has incorporated sub-d's, (something I wish Hash would do). I'm seriously considering vr.11 due to all the dandy new trinkets available... may get it in January.

[Bugle]

And what new features are these, I don't really know what's in store for V11, not that that would really sway me too much (Unless they include a "make movie" button ;) ) but still, curiousity strikes...

[nerrazzi]

Whoops! sorry, I'm still reeling about what's available in the current version, "Locks of hair, photon mapping and my fav the maintain curvature feature for detailed mechanical modeling.

I have 9.5 but don't use it because of stability issues so back to 8.5 I guess. There have been a lot of good things said about 10.5 and that helped restore my faith in the software, we'll see about the upgrade in '04.

[JTalbotski]

You know, of course, that Hash's version plan calls for new features to be added to new versions, like v11. Then in the .5 version (11.5), stablity is their number one goal. So upgrading next January is only going to make you more disenchanted with A:M. You might want to consider upgrading now.

Just trying to help,
Jim

[nerrazzi]

Good point and I plan on getting the upgrade real soon but I'm still connecting with other software to do it just yet. Talk about "disenchanted", I'll be going from 8.5 to 11... what a jump! I'll be learning all the new features and I hear there may be no manual...?:banghead:

[Bugle]

Or they might decide to switch CD keys mid year and ask you to pay fedex + taxes to get on the .5 bandwagon...

[hoochoochoochoo]

Bugle- If that happens I won't be around to bitch anymore
what will I do without my daily bitch from you..? Only thing that'd really hold me up from upgrading is a manual. Unless Obnomauk is going to set up a deal and get something written and ready so I can upgrade and get a users hardcopy manual at the same time?
I'm happy to pay the extra cost for a proper, useable manual. (Before anyone says anything - yes a manual SHOULD come as a de facto standard but it's now become established AM habit to just ship a slim comic for bedtime reading.)

[modernhorse]

I agree - i think it deserves a manual and I was quite disappointed upon upgrading to find it didn't come with one. I would also have paid extra for a manual.

[Dalemation]

I found David Rogers book took the place of a manual for me but obviously most people expect one with software. A PDF version on the CD would be fine as this could be read online aswell as printed out for reading in the bath etc.

As the new features are added a PDF manual would be very easy to update too. The more I get into the program the more I yearn for a good manual that takes you through all the features.

[Obnomauk]

Well I'm not contractually obligated to not speak of it sooo....

I will not be writing a new version of the book... for Charles River Media.

We have some basic disagreements that cannot be worked out. I do have plans to update the book, but I am contractually obligated to not publish a competing work while the current book remains in print. So what I am going to do is update the text for 2004 and place it on the Reader's Section of am-guide.com in PDF format for free download (presuming you have the book already which contains the log-in info for the Reader's Section). With new project files and Video files in the same section. This will be the last updating I do until such time that the book goes out of print and all rights revert back to me, at which time I will probably re-vamp the whole thing and figure out a different distribution method. I'm kind of disillusioned with publishing.

Basically what I am waiting on at this point is the Beta for the 2004 version. I know what I plan on changing and expanding and have ideas for the projects I want to use for tutorials but until I see what they change for v11 I don't want to spend to much time on it :)

I should have the introduction done and up soon though.

I do have other projects up my sleeve as well, but I want to get a bit further along before I talk about them.

-David Rogers

[Hookflash]

Ob: You rock:thumbsup:

[John Keates]

Well v11 alpha is here... and I don't see an update for 10.5. This might be another slightly messy transition. I can tell that there are going to be lots of "Don't complain about bugs in an alpha version" excuses. I bet that there will be more bug fixes in the alpha than in the current version, but maybe I should give them the benifit of the doubt for a while. At least they havn't re-written the thing.

[binder3d]

They rolled all the fixes from 10.5 into 11 alpha. Because if you look at the forum there is a image of the new hair-holy crap its amazing!! Here are the notes:

v11.0 Alpha Fixes (Most fixes are to bugs intruduced to pre alpha versions)
-Latest forum posts now visible in AM:Community panel
-Fixed chor action export as action missing .act (broke in 11.0 pre1, by action save as)
-Fixed multi select, deleteing light caches
-Fixed undo for: and action menu's move and delete frames, and delete, cut, paste, channel operations
-Fixed action save as not changing its name
-9/26/03 : Temp Group Plugins don't crash now.
-9/26/03 : Added sorting to NetRender Server.
-9/26/03 : Fixed NetRender Server crash when pool is closed while rendering.
-9/25/03 : Added Muscle support to SDK
-9/18/03 : Added global overrides to Server
-9/18/03 : Grid wizard crsh when step is greater than width or height
-9/12/03 : Fixed Materials on Props animating over time
-9/11/03 : Added GetObjectType(), GetObject(), GetSubObject() to HTexInfo in SDK
-9/11/03 : Added Ambiance Color to surface attributes
-9/11/03 : Fixed Raytrace Prop Cookie-cut
-9/10/03 : Added Sprite duplicate menu option and drag and drop
-9/9/03 : Fixed Deleting Props
-9/9/03 : Added Sprite Features { Random Seed, Max Distance before emmission }
-9/9/03 : Fixed Import old chors with Props that couldn't be found
-9/9/03 : Added browser for missing props
-9/8/03 : Fixed Props with back facing normals
-Changed channel editor to include all muscle channel curves from spline container. {Victor Navone}
-Added green checkmark icon for the current chor action.
-Fixed lag in NetRender. {Jeff Bunker}
-Added GetBoneDir() function to the expression editor. {David Rogers}
-Multi-pass motion blur on dynamic constraints works correctly. {Matthew Crick}
-Can change the resolution on a distort object via the action object when used in a pose. {Nathaniel
Stein}
-Expressions can be longer than 255 characters. {David Rogers, Marcel Brickman}
-Dynamic constraints on 1-bone long chains works correctly. {Tyler Lybbert}
-Control chains that are sometimes kinematic, and sometimes broken via
translate to constraints in the same scene, are no longer falsely accused
as circular. {Shaun Freeman}
-Validated euler limits so that min is always less than or equal to max. {Mike Hart}
-Relationships on X-Rotate work past 90 degrees, as well as they did on Y-Rotate. {Victor Navone}
-Cloth wizard works again in an action window. {Sotiris Gougousis}
-Simulate is ghosted on spring systems under objects.
-Multi-D Smartskin allows keyframes as close as 1 degree apart. {Stephen Millingen}

[John Keates]

Yep, the new hair is amazing. But the fact is that some of those bug fixes are new (the ones in the first half), and there is no 10.5 update. What are the chances of 10.5 being fixed up properly before 11 takes over?

[KenH]

I thought they continued to support(bugfix) the previous version right up until the next is officially released? Or is that when it's not a .5? Isn't v10 being updated now?

[John Keates]

I don't know. I assume so but it is odd that there are fixes for v11 Alpha and no sign of a v10 l. Best just to wait and see...

[detolleme]

You'll sometimes continue to see fixes for the current version when they start working on the new version.

I would guess that it depends on whether the fixes can be easily patched into the current code, or whether the fix is the result of new code that only exists in the new version.

Of course, I remember v5.26... :hmm:

D.

[Kevin Sanderson]

I remember all the updates on v5, too.

I would think there would be more updates for v10.5 as v11 is only alpha. The beta drumbeat hasn't even begun.

And my v9.51e download is dated 11/16/02, and the v10 alpha is dated 9/28/02 so if we're going down the same road as last year, I would guess we'd go into November at least as well.

My v8.5L download is dated 1/10/01 and v8.5m is dated 2/10/01, and if they crossed over a year then it might possibly happen again. We probably won't see updates every week or two as we have, but we'll probably still see them for the near future.

I'm wondering about the Ambiance Color for surface attributes...wonder if it would help in faking sub-surface-scatter...

[John Keates]

Yes, I rekon that some kind of skin shader is on its way. If you look where the render shader plugins are, there is ambient as well as diffuse and specular. There is no shader there as yet but I guess that even if Hash don't write one then someone will.:buttrock:

[Rodger Reynolds]

Kevin Sanderson said:
"I remember all the updates on v5, too."


I have a vague recollection of v5 being considered sufficiently under-cooked that all users got a free upgrade to v6. Can anyone confirm this?

[Bugle]

10.5 l is out, downloading it now... Hopefully we'll get some increased usability there before the end.

*come on hash, there's a little boy who is losing faith in christmas!!*

[John Keates]

Yep, they are still fixing things. I got three fixes in a week. Not bad going. Just keep on sending in those reports and they will warrent them in the end.

[detolleme]

I have a vague recollection of v5 being considered sufficiently under-cooked that all users got a free upgrade to v6.

Nope, the exact opposite happened. v5 got as far as 5.25i. v5.26 was supposed to be the one that had all the major bugfixes and all the promised features added. Suddenly it became v6, combined with the launch of the $99 calendar-year subscription.

If I recall correctly, the only people who got free upgrades were those who had bought MH3D or AM late in the year (November-ish or later).

D.

[Ran13]

Originally posted by detolleme
If I recall correctly, the only people who got free upgrades were those who had bought MH3D or AM late in the year (November-ish or later).

D.

Yep, that's correct. I purchased MH3D v5 in late November (my first Hash purchase) and received a free upgrade to v6.

However, I was later bit in the be-hind by the 8.5 fixes after the cutoff date (late Feb/early March (?)). At the time I would have had to pay $99 to get the patches that would bring my 8.5L version up to 8.5P++, which I had initially planned to do once v9 got out of beta and a new manual was produced, but v9 didn't get outta beta until the end of the year (a proper manual never materialized), and all the problems people were having with v9 detered me from upgrading until v10 was released.

So, it's been my experience that updates to the current version will be made available as long as the upcoming version is in beta, regardless of calendar date. Once the new version reaches release status, expect no further updates to the previous version.

Also, expect no tech support on the previous version as the "standard" Hash tech support answer to any problems with the previous version is: "We can't help you unless you are using the current version, but we would be glad to take your order for an upgrade".:shrug:

[ngrava]

Ok, so I've seen that Hash has realsed the Alpha of V11. But where are you guys reading the list of new features?

[John Keates]

Try here:

http://www.hash.com/am2004/files.asp

There is also a load of discussion here:

www.Hash/forums

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