Does Lightwave support quads?

[Animasta]

Dude, this is 2010, every major 3d modeling app (even like 99% of all free modeling apps) support quads.

[evenflcw]

LW had n-gons by then already and even interactive subdivision surfaces (MetaNurbs, that prefer quads; and was an industry first). So what are you on (about)?

And why the interest in the LWO format? It's likely a common format because LW has been around for a long time and sold alot of copies, so there's demand for it. And it isn't overly complex and it's compact.

[DSW]

The last time I used Lightwave was waaaay back in the v5.5 Mac days. I remember everything in the modeler was triangles.
What? I still use 5.5/5.6 occasionally with certain LScript macros and it models with quads just fine - always has. I always wondered why models in other formats nearly ALWAYS came into LW as tri's and really loved the clean-looking LW quads. Everything in Modeler is definitely NOT triangles.

[VirtualFM]

Lightwave supported quads since at least version 3! I think it had metanurbs (later known as subdivision surfaces) by version 4.

If you were only seeing tris in Modeler in version 5.5, it's probably because you were importing 3DS meshes, or DXF.

[colkai]

I wonder if he had his preferences set to triangles instead of quads? ;)

[VirtualFM]

Well remembered, Colkai! I don't think I ever used that option, so completely forgot about it!

[DSW]

Yes, but isn't the default option quads? You have to conciously change the setting to tri's - AFAIK.

[NicolasJordan]

This thread reminds me of the fact that Blender doesn't support Ngons yet.

[Julez4001]

Lightwave had quads/subdivision surface years before Maya/XSI swore the future was all about nurbs.

[Animasta]

you can use quads, tris and ngongs in modeler... however layout converts any geometry in tris. Doesnt mather if your model is made in modeler, modo, 3dsmax, maya, xsi, etc.

This thread was about modeler, not LW as a whole. And don't most renderers (if not all) convert to tris?

[speismonqui]

you can use quads, tris and ngongs in modeler... however layout converts any geometry in tris. Doesnt mather if your model is made in modeler, modo, 3dsmax, maya, xsi, etc.

[Navstar]

you can use quads, tris and ngongs in modeler... however layout converts any geometry in tris. Doesnt mather if your model is made in modeler, modo, 3dsmax, maya, xsi, etc.

Aha! This is the answer I'm looking for. Thank you.

From what you guys are saying, .LWO supports every modern polygon type. There's no reason that an .LWO exported from another 3D app would *have* to be triangulated, right? Triangulated meshes are just kind of annoying to look at when animating scenes.

(Of course at render time, virtually all apps tessellate to triangles internally)

[speismonqui]

Glad to help.
As you point out, all apz triangullate the geometry "internally" for render, but no one has to see this. however we all know the difference between lightwave and other apzz... in LW you must work with triangullate geometry "visually" not only for render, but for animation, texturing, etc, etc, etc.... and is quite annoying!

[digefxgrp]

in LW you must work with triangullate geometry "visually" not only for render, but for animation, texturing, etc, etc, etc.... and is quite annoying! Going clear back to ver.1, I've never had to convert geometry to tri's unless I'm doing some type of animated deformation.

[DSW]

As you point out, all apz triangullate the geometry "internally" for render, but no one has to see this. however we all know the difference between lightwave and other apzz... in LW you must work with triangullate geometry "visually" not only for render, but for animation, texturing, etc, etc, etc.... and is quite annoying!

Huh? Where do you get this? We haven't had to triangulate ANYTHING in LW for it to render/animate/texture. We deal with quads most of the time and ngons. Heck, even porting over to Maxwell Render we don't have to triangulate any more. Create the model with quads, bring it into Layout, animate it, render it, bring it back into Modeler (still in quads) and alter, render, etc. We don't have to triangulate LW geometry "visually" at all.

[philnolan3d]

LightWave automatically triangulates (triples) all models at render time behind the scenes so you don't even notice it.

[speismonqui]

Huh? Where do you get this? We haven't had to triangulate ANYTHING in LW for it to render/animate/texture. We deal with quads most of the time and ngons. Heck, even porting over to Maxwell Render we don't have to triangulate any more. Create the model with quads, bring it into Layout, animate it, render it, bring it back into Modeler (still in quads) and alter, render, etc. We don't have to triangulate LW geometry "visually" at all.

As i said before, internally! Layout displays geometry in tris, i never said you "must" manually triangulate anything. All im saying is that in layout you work in tris.

I guess the transition modeler-layout, quads-tris is made through the HUB, but i dont know this for sure, i mean im not an expert.

[DSW]

As i said before, internally! Layout displays geometry in tris, i never said you "must" manually triangulate anything. All im saying is that in layout you work in tris.
No you don't. You work in quads. It is ONLY in rendering that Lightwaves renderer changes the quads to tris. If you save the model AFTER the render, it will still be quads.

I guess the transition modeler-layout, quads-tris is made through the HUB, but i dont know this for sure, i mean im not an expert.
There is no transition made in the Hub. It is only at render time and this is "behind the scene." Your model does not physically change into tri's - again, the Lightwave renderer changes the quads to tri's - as Phil above said.

[speismonqui]

have you used lightwave? have you seen your models in layout as tris? thats what i meant by "internally" not "manually", and if its only at render, you still have displayed geometry in tris. So in layout, which displays geometry in tris, you animate, texture, etc, etc, etc

I dont see you point DSW. I think were talking the same here...

Tnx for the screenshot Phil.

[philnolan3d]

Actually yes in Layout a sub-d model is displayed as triangles but that doesn't really matter too much since you don't do any modeling in Layout.

See this car model I'm working on that's almost all Sub-Ds displays as triangles even though I'm working in quads.

http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/d97d9fba-209a-4156-a7f0-d9d098998347/2010-06-08_0138.png

[DSW]

have you used lightwave? have you seen your models in layout as tris? thats what i meant by "internally" not "manually", and if its only at render, you still have displayed geometry in tris. So in layout, which displays geometry in tris, you animate, texture, etc, etc, etc

I dont see you point DSW. I think were talking the same here...

Tnx for the screenshot Phil.
Used LW? Only for about 15 years. Apparently this is a misunderstanding - the ACTUAL MODEL may be displayed as tris, but it is ONLY if the object is made to display subDs AND only if you have the object set IN LAYOUT to display a subD of 1 or greater.

The OP stated that he ONLY worked in tris in old LW and that was a mistake on his part. LW AFAIK has ALWAYS worked in quads and saves in quads EVEN when you have the object set to show subDs. So yes... I know objects are displayed in tris - though ONLY if it is set to subD. Perhaps we should begin to speak in complete and total concepts and not shorthand everything? ;)

[speismonqui]

Used LW? Only for about 15 years. Apparently this is a misunderstanding - the ACTUAL MODEL may be displayed as tris, but it is ONLY if the object is made to display subDs AND only if you have the object set IN LAYOUT to display a subD of 1 or greater.

The OP stated that he ONLY worked in tris in old LW and that was a mistake on his part. LW AFAIK has ALWAYS worked in quads and saves in quads EVEN when you have the object set to show subDs. So yes... I know objects are displayed in tris - though ONLY if it is set to subD. Perhaps we should begin to speak in complete and total concepts and not shorthand everything? ;)

Totally agree! it was a misunderstanding, now were clear as water. :thumbsup:

[digefxgrp]

Maybe I’m missing something, but I’m not seeing “only tri’s” here in the Layout window. Actually there’s very few. Just the non-planars which I manually converted in Modeler.

When rendering, yes LW will internally do it’s tri-conversion, but that’s hidden…something that’s not seen in the Layout or render display…nor does it show up in the stat window (poly count) as tri’s.

[DSW]

Maybe I’m missing something, but I’m not seeing “only tri’s” here in the Layout window. Actually there’s very few. Just the non-planars which I manually converted in Modeler.
You will only see tri's if your object is subpatched (Sub-D's) and your object is set to view them as 1 or more. In Modeler, select an object and hit the TAB key. You will notice the object change slightly. Save the object and bring it in to Layout. Make sure the object is selected in and hit P for properties. In the Geometry Tab, towards the bottom you will notice Display SubPatch Level. If this is set to 0, you won't see any difference. If you set it to 1 or higher, you will notice your object change into tri's - assuming that you have one of the wireframe settings in the viewport.

[digefxgrp]

Yes...correct... if you're just talking sub-d or imported tri geometry from other packages.

I was responding to the statement that was made that Layout ALWAYS displays lwo's as tri's...which it doesn't.

[DSW]

Yes...correct... if you're just talking sub-d or imported tri geometry from other packages.

I was responding to the statement that was made that Layout ALWAYS displays lwo's as tri's...which it doesn't.

Correct. LW displays quads as tri's ONLY when the object is Sub-D and asked to display Sub-D. Layout does not display objects that are quads as tri's - if they are not Sub-D. :)

Edit: I believe it was just a case of mis-speaking and not completely finishing the thought.

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