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View Full Version : Vue Stability queries - honest answers please!


kromekat
04-16-2010, 01:24 PM
Hey folks,

I have been very unhappy with Vue - having owned version 4 d'esprit, Infinite 6.5, and XStream 6.5, and rarely had much stability with any of them on numerous Mac systems and OS versions.

It frustrates me, because I really wanted to be able to use this app in my artwork! - I have managed to get a few images done with one of the 6.x versions of Infinite a couple of years ago, often with much saving after every step, crashing and then picking up from there. XStream was a total disaster, and I don't think I have ever had anything functional with that and Cinema 4D!!

So - please step up - Mac and PC users alike - please tell me honestly haw stable your setup is, and whether this really is a platform issue, or just generally poor coding across the board!?

With the new versions now coming out I am once again looking at it, and wondering will this app ever work for me, dare I risk yet more money on something that might not only crash frequently, but also mess up my system as before.

I'd obviously rather it worked ok on my existing Mac systems, but I have also considered getting a half decent PC to run this app alone!, but I don't want to invest more money, if I will experience exactly the same problems regardless of the machine and OS!

Thanks in advance!

Adam

dvfx
04-17-2010, 12:45 AM
kromekat: I have been very unhappy with Vue - having owned version 4 d'esprit, Infinite 6.5, and XStream 6.5, and rarely had much stability with any of them on numerous Mac systems and OS versions. Me too. Terrible experience all around. Setup doesn't matter (I'm on PC). Funny how Maya and other apps will run on a laptop but for Vue you need some "magic" setup. That should be a red flag right there! my experience is they (e-on) release Beta versions, and let their user base test it. very unhappy and tired of non-professionals claiming it's great, and e-on not supporting their product. Also if it's so solid why all the new version releases. The problem is in their code! I say stay away. (FYI I purchased Vue 7.5)
With the new versions now coming out I am once again looking at it, and wondering will this app ever work for me... Many users get caught in this trap. Always upgrading and then dealing with a whole new set of bugs.

Also, ever wonder why you always see jobs for Maya artist and rarely Vue artists?

I don't wonder anymore.

Regards, D

Fanko
04-17-2010, 02:00 PM
I am a Mac Vue xstream user, and yes, it is very unstable indeed.

I think this software is still built for VFX powerhouse like ILM, where the software will get better tech support and tailor made system for the software, instead of for general artist use.

Well, at least for my own speculation.

kromekat
04-17-2010, 09:58 PM
I have wondered that myself, whether ILM have a bespoke version for their purposes, or whether it's a standard off the shelf version on a standard workstation(s). I must ask a guy I know who works there.

I downloaded the latest ple version tomsee what it's like anyway. Would be good to hear from anyone else on either platform that has real positive experiences with it!

Adam

AFalk
04-20-2010, 02:43 PM
I like Vue8.4 on Windows 64bit - been stable, & solid,

We just ahd a discussion in the same vein here:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=162&t=872854

kromekat
04-20-2010, 02:56 PM
Thanks for the loink to the other thread :)

Still seems like a lottery to me :/ - I keep hoping for some consistently 'good' reviews of a new version, but it just doesn't appear to get better for far too many users.

Adam

AFalk
04-20-2010, 05:58 PM
Adam -->>

I can undertsand that feeling::

"Still seems like a lottery to me :/ - I keep hoping for some consistently 'good' reviews of a new version, but it just doesn't appear to get better for far too many users.

Adam"

But remember the majority of the people you'll see with stability (the majority certainly not all of them -- but the large majority nonetheless) -- are still using Vue 5/6/7 and not on 8 at all.

Here's what I do to see -- take a peek at the Cornucopia forums and see what the current crop of users are experiencing -= that might be even better than just independent opinions :D

Mike.H
04-23-2010, 01:53 PM
We all know by now that vue works for some and not for others. Its just how it is and i wish it was rocksolid all around for everyone and eventualy vue will be, of that im sure.

I use vue for paid jobs all the time and weve been using it in our pipeline for quite some time, but obviously some people has issues with it so im not sure the point of threads like this is realy beneficial for you.

If youre having issues and you seem to be one of those users, then most likely youll have issues with 8.5 even tho for me its a smooth experience,Which isnt the same as saying ive never had to submit a bug report for vue.

But since youre asking, vue 8.5 is behaving nicely for me, (windows vista) and im quite positive so will vue 9 once released.

As for a special version for certain customers, i doubt it, makes no sense at all to be honest.

But vue is sensitive to how you use it and what hardware you do use. Its a simple fact that we cant overlook, it shoudnt be like that, but it is so if you realy want to use vue, then obviously youll have to change something on your end of things, unless of course 8.5 realy is rock solid for you aswell, but you wont know that until youve tried it.

So for now, i would just wait for 8.5 to get a public release and then take it for a test drive.

As for improvements tho, 8.5 is much better then vue 6 and 7.

cturner3d
04-25-2010, 01:23 AM
I've been using since version 5 and yes its clunky, but you can really dive into the settings to get better results. Best option I've had to date is to render out as a multilayer .psd, use a Global Ambience lighting rig instead of Global Illumination. Now take your work into photoshop and bring the brilliance out there. You can get it in Vue itself but at the cost of 10 x's the time limit. GI is ok for stills but even then you're looking at intense rendertimes. If you know a bit of compositing, it will take Vue a looong ways.

shokan
04-25-2010, 03:23 PM
Mike H, what is your hardware setup?

kromekat
05-06-2010, 02:39 PM
Thanks for the info Steven!

I am hovering dangerously close to the upgrade button for 8.5, despite my previous experience saying 'forget it!' I still want what Vue Infinite offers, even more so XStream, but my last experience of that was a total travesty! (both 6.5 on OS X)

The thing is, it wouldn't be my primary software, I just would like to be able to turn to it when I need it, and know I can rely upon it!

Adam

Silverblade-T-E
05-06-2010, 02:40 PM
Vue's been great for me since v7 :)

PC specs, year and half + old
ASUS Striker Extreme Motherboard (nto a board I'd recommned though, it's a pain and out of date, go for a P6 now)
8 gig RAM
Nvidia 9600Gt 1 gig ram video card
Intel 6600 quad core
3 HDs, 500gig and 2x1terabyte
Antec 900 gamer case (go for a 1200 now, better dust control)
Hiper PSU (very quiet, get a modular one now)
Windows 7 64 bit professional (Vista 64 bit previously)

PC just for art, so no games, email etc.

tweaking the display settings in Vue "options" itself helps a LOT, as I've often explained.
turn off "limit polygons" for one.

when you import an object for use in Vue, save it out as a.vob (Vue object) re-import it, often works better/less resources.

:)

dvfx
05-06-2010, 08:59 PM
I am hovering dangerously close to the upgrade button for 8.5, despite my previous experience saying 'forget it!' I still want what Vue Infinite offers, even more so XStream, but my last experience of that was a total travesty! (both 6.5 on OS X)
The thing is, it wouldn't be my primary software, I just would like to be able to turn to it when I need it, and know I can rely upon it! Adam

Here are some things to think about...

-What are your own needs for your Vue project? IE quality and realism. Is this project Photo-real critical, are there exacting specifications for the project or is it more subjective and free flowing.

-Do I need Vue to render all of my environmental elements together, or do I need just a bush, a tree, or a mountain to render separately in another program.

-Do I need to render a multi-frame animation, or just a matte painting element to be mapped on a card and composited?

-Time limits, is this a commercial project or am I just having fun creating art/hobby pieces on my own time.

-Pipeline. Do I need Vue to fit into a detailed pipeline environment or is it just me and my own computer.

-Hardware. do I have the luxury of mixing and matching hardware and finding the right system or am I using an HP, or Dell, or Mac workstation that the studio provides for me.

-R & D time, do I have additional time (weeks or months) to experiment with work-arounds and time to make up for many crashes under typical production loads and deadlines.

-Consider carefully the source of positive reviews. I have known several of the positive experience users to be very biased..,...i.e. they are profiting from selling tutorials, plugins, objects, and materials and have a vested interest in promoting more Vue users i.e. "customers". (not referring to anyone on this thread as of this posting)

-What kind of work is the positive user producing, and does it meet my project needs?

- Will E-on software support their software as other companies do, releasing bug fixing patches, and provide timely solutions to my project critical problems.

-Will you be able to subscribe to the maintenance program?

For me, the answers to these questions, and E-ons lack of customer service and support make Vue not an option for my current and future projects.

I hope this helps,

D

Linden-Stirk
05-27-2010, 01:04 AM
I know this thread is several weeks old, but maybe you guys are still interested. I actually have had a lot of success with Vue 8.5 xStream! With 3ds Max I've been able to render extensive Vue scenes, some exceeding a billion polys. However, Vue standalone seems to crash after about an hour of using it, but the recovery file has always saved my work. After a crash I'm usually up and running again within a minute.

A bit of negative info, I am finding it almost impossible to integrate Vue scenes with Maya. I'm still searching for a solution to the problem if there is one...

But I've been using Vue xStream (from 7.5 to 8.5) since November 09 and I honestly love the program.

My hardware:
AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2.8GHz (6 core cpu)
8 GB DDR3 RAM
GeForce GTS 250 512MB
Windows 7 x64

laughingcrows
06-08-2010, 10:21 PM
My problems with vue started the second I placed my order. They were running a special:

buy Vue Infinite and get Matchmover tracking software for $49.00.

I thought even if Vue sucks for animation I'll still have matchmover. WRONG!!! After I placed my order Eon said sorry, that offer was still up by mistake.

Long story short - they refused to honor their offer and vue sucked.

They made a life long really unhappy customer out of me.

danischaerer
06-10-2010, 07:49 AM
Is there anyone out there working with Vue xStream on a Mac with Cinema 4D who is happy with it? If there is one, what kind of setup are you working on?
I've bought Vue 7.4 and it was a real hassle to get things done. I've tried several different workflows but non of it has been flawless...
Cheers,
Dan

Jonj1611
06-10-2010, 02:27 PM
Hey Kromekat, I remember you back when I used to do C4D, such a long time ago now :)

Anyway Vue, yes, its a stability nightmare, I have been complaining to E-On about it for years, sent off reports. Any who has a stable version will say its your system, I don't believe that, no other program apart from maybe Office crashes.

At one point Vue was crashing on me hourly. I have the usual stuff, quad-core processor, loads of ram, hard drive space, top graphics card, Windows 7 pro, all drivers up to date, etc etc etc

But it still continues to crash, and the crash reporting thing crashes lol. I still think its related to memory in some way but E-On are happy to just say were looking into it, which has been pretty much the standard replies to crashes in the last couple of years.

Jon

geekatplay
06-10-2010, 04:26 PM
I am using Vue for some time and for some heavy projects.

Experience based on cross platforms.

Mac OS, Windows XP, Vista, 7 (64 and 32 bit), render farms (25 cows)



For sure with every new release application is more stable, as xStream version i would say version 6-6.5 probably most buggy and unstable. Problem as soon new version of Vue released, they stop supporting older, forcing you to spend more money for upgrade. Sadly it's applied to all 3D industry. I am using Max, May, XSI Etc. list is too long. They all are forcing you to upgrade.



Vue is not All-In-One magic solution, its tool that does good one think - environments.

Massive terrains, great skies and precision molding terrains.

For serious project you don't want animate or render inside Vue. Use VRay or MR.



We providing lot of consulting for many projects, here is few suggestions:



- Vue build for PC, it's can run on Mac, but not yet as stable. However they do improved stability for Mac's.

- Use commercial grade PC for commercial projects.

- RTFM, when you done RTFM again.

- Concentrate your goal on project and not on frustration with all tools. You always will have problem with any software you using. I have lot stability problems with XSI and ICE as example, but I still love that application. It's like living with mother-in-law, while you love your wife.

- Ask wizards of Google, someone already had that problem.



... and little of self-advertising : look at Geekatplay website. I recorded video tutorials almost on every subject, if it's not yet there ask.

Mike.H
06-12-2010, 01:26 PM
Cant help but agree with Vladimir. There are lots of users without serious problems, well as he pointed out, everyone using any app seriously has issues every now and then but we work around them.

As for vue, i do believe, just like Vlad that vue should be used on windows. its still not nearly as stable on mac as windows. Its just how it is and i wish more people realy did take that little fact to their hearts. Its not about which os is better, for vue, mac osx just isnt as good of an environment as windows is.

And yes, some apps are worse and some are better, not sure why vue differs so much from rig to rig, or user to user, but for me vue is in the solid app segment. Yes, ive submitted more bug reports then i can think of through the years, but vue improves from year to year and by now i rarely notice more problems with vue then my other apps which i use while working.

And whenever vegas comes chrashing down which i know it will sooner or later, well i just restart it and in all honesty since its such a great and smooth app otherwise i see no reason to get worked up over it, i know it will chrash sooner or later so i save often, same with vue, save often. Its an old paradigm thats still as usefull for any workflow and not just due to the app chrashing on you.

Same goes for photoshop, dreamweaver, flash cs pro, any raw nef viewing app, and dont get me started on premiere cs 4, which launched so god damn unstable and unusable i cant understand it, well for me that is and i, as one might think looking at that list of apps enjoy working with Adobes products.... heck even houdini will come burning down from time to time.

With all this said :) I do not think anyone should, today that is, settle for any vue user below vue 8. Vue improves alot from generation to generation and vue 6 just isnt as good and stable as vue 7 which still isnt as good and stable as vue 8. And sadly, make sure to use it on a pc with windows. Vue just doesnt like mac and osx. Its getting there as can be seen by the improvements with the mac 64bit version but pc and windows is still the prefered environment for any vue user.

Now, do i wish that e.on and other developers would support old apps with bug fixes years after theyve been replaced by the new generation? Yes i do, but its not how it is. So, yes, vue 8 is much better then vue 6 and 7 if you intend to work with it and as Vlad said, use vue for what its good @, integrate it with another app for rendering animations if you need animations that is.

MikeFrampton
06-14-2010, 03:39 PM
Hi everyone, Mike Frampton from e-on here. Interesting thread to say the least.

For those who are looking to get a better feel and understanding on performance, stability and functionality issues, I would strongly suggest downloading the free Vue PLE (Personal Learning Edition) of Vue Infinite or Vue xStream. The PLE's are exactly the same as the professional versions of Infinite and xStream except it adds a watermark. You can download it here:

https://secure.e-onsoftware.com/try/vue_8_ple/index.php

In general, as other posters have pointed out, we have found that performance and stability continues to improve with each new release. However, the biggest variable in the performance/stability equation continues to center on the actual hardware platform you are running on. If you have decent size machine (e.g. 64-bit with 4 GB of memory or more) and a good graphics card things will generally run smoothly. Also, Vue does run better in most cases on PC hardware. However, we are also introducing a Cocoa-64 version of Vue for the Mac platform (the beta version is available now for all Infinite and xStream users) which will also improve performance and stability on the Mac platform.

kromekat
06-14-2010, 06:49 PM
Hi Mike,

Is the 8.5 64bit OSX version (beta or PLE) available for me to download (my last registered versions are both Infinite and XStream 6.5)?

I so want a workable solution with Vue, and have even considered purchasing a PC to run it on, but that makes so little sense, since I dont want to spend the amount I would need to get an equivalent 8 core Mac for only one peice of software!

Cheers
Adam :)

MikeFrampton
06-15-2010, 07:47 AM
Hi Mike,

Is the 8.5 64bit OSX version (beta or PLE) available for me to download (my last registered versions are both Infinite and XStream 6.5)?

I so want a workable solution with Vue, and have even considered purchasing a PC to run it on, but that makes so little sense, since I dont want to spend the amount I would need to get an equivalent 8 core Mac for only one peice of software!

Cheers
Adam :)

Hi Adam,

The Vue PLE is available in Mac or PC versions. The Mac Version of the PLE does not yet contain the new Cocoa inteface. However, I would suggest giving the Mac Vue PLE version a test run and see if it works for you. We will have more to say on the Cocoa version of Vue for Mac at Siggraph.

cookin
06-15-2010, 10:41 AM
Yesterday Vue 8 hanged soo hard on me that I had to manually reboot my machine (holding the power-button for 5+ seconds). It always happens when I try to open the terrain editor, on a proc terrain. Sometimes it just hangs the app, and sometimes it hangs the whole computer.

That says a thing or two about MacOS X as well I guess.

iMac 24" with 4GB memory, Vue 8 PLE.

kromekat
06-15-2010, 04:27 PM
Yesterday Vue 8 hanged soo hard on me that I had to manually reboot my machine (holding the power-button for 5+ seconds). It always happens when I try to open the terrain editor, on a proc terrain. Sometimes it just hangs the app, and sometimes it hangs the whole computer.

That says a thing or two about MacOS X as well I guess.

iMac 24" with 4GB memory, Vue 8 PLE.


Hmmm - you see this is what I had happen a few times with 6 and 6.5, and I have NO other software capable of taking down my system like that - if anything else does crash at all, it stays isolated, whereas Vue did as you say, on occasions take down the whole OS and a forced reboot was needed. :/

Adam

Mike.H
06-20-2010, 06:13 PM
in all honesty, vue has never taken down any of the windows rigs ive used it with over the years.

Its sad for you guys, but just one more vote for the fact that vue behaves so much better on pc hardware and windows compared to mac hardware and osx. But yes, the 64bit cocoa version should improve alot for mac users aswell. Not sure if it will catch up to pc and windows 64 bit tho.

Koorstag
07-12-2010, 06:47 PM
I downloaded the PLE last Thursday. The plugin for Maya won't load at all.

Martin

Linden-Stirk
07-12-2010, 07:37 PM
The plug-in loads fine in Maya. Make sure you go to the plug-in manager and check auto-load for the Vue Synch and Vue xStream.

Koorstag
07-12-2010, 08:04 PM
There is no Vuesync that I can find, but when I try to load Vue7xStream.bundle, I get // Error: does not match the current architecture (Vue7xStream)

Martin

Linden-Stirk
07-12-2010, 08:19 PM
Hmm. Interesting... :curious:

I googled your error message, but found nothing specific to Vue. Are you using a Mac?

Koorstag
07-12-2010, 08:33 PM
yes, MacPro with Snow Leopard 10.6.4 and Maya 2011

Martin

herojig
07-13-2010, 08:05 PM
I'm using the C4D plugin and not so happy, lots of crashes on my macs, and on one machine, it refuses to even install, so can't really test to see if it's hardware. It's a great idea, and I've been trying for years with various incarnations to do terrains inside of C4D with it, but gak! I just love it when it cranks the C4D source file so bad it then refuses to open. At least C4D is really well behaved and creates backups for ya:) Anyway, interesting read.

Linden-Stirk
07-15-2010, 06:55 PM
It's a shame that Vue doesn't work well on Macs, so I hear. Also large Vue scenes do not work well with Maya for PC either. :hmm: It works brilliantly with 3ds Max, though.

wfstecko
07-16-2010, 03:26 PM
I found Vue xStream standalone is working fine on my Mac, but when I need to integrate with C4D I'm better off booting into Windows.




For serious project you don't want animate or render inside Vue. Use VRay or MR.








I bought MR recently and am new to it, so my problem is most likely my workflow. When rendering a scene from C4D with Vue elements in it none of the Vue scene appears in the render when rendering to Maxwell. Only the C4D elemants are rendered.

Walter

danb
07-18-2010, 04:48 AM
We just got Vue xStream recently and found that i can't load Vue scenes within c4d. I can create all objects though.

Anyone know how to fix that?

Windows 7, x64, 12gb ram, i7 quad proc...etc. Its not the computer its definately a vue problem. Also have tried in stand along and renders locked up a few times when trying to render a lot of trees.

herojig
07-18-2010, 06:51 AM
We just got Vue xStream recently and found that i can't load Vue scenes within c4d. I can create all objects though.

Anyone know how to fix that?

Windows 7, x64, 12gb ram, i7 quad proc...etc. Its not the computer its definately a vue problem. Also have tried in stand along and renders locked up a few times when trying to render a lot of trees.

I just spent two days getting this to work on a mac. Where I am stuck now is getting the imbedded VUE scenes, via xStream 8.04, to work with Net Render. Without that it's almost useless to me.

Anyway, I'd be glad to help u get to the point where I am...check Console in C4D to see if the xStream plug is coughing. Do you see the xStream plug in the menu bar? Anyway...

Cheers,
Jigs

danb
07-18-2010, 05:02 PM
Nothing is there in the console for Vue, only for other plugins.

Teh vue menu at the top is there and every other function except open scene works.

Other than that Vue has been pretty stable as long as i don't move and click around the viewport too fast.

On the other hand Vue stand alone is giving me a lot of problems. I can't render large tree scenes without it locking up. The ecosystem and clouds are the main reasons we got this program. Clouds render fine.

herojig
07-18-2010, 05:34 PM
wow, never seen that before. if you have the menu, but only open scene does not work, sounds like a note to tech support (ha). i'd check video card settings / requirements and perhaps a complete reinstall of VUE.

i just solved my render in C4D problem... i guess I gotta buy a VUE render node to make it work. I hear C4D Net Render needs the node to do the render, which just seems crazy.

anyway, search on VUE render tutorial and there is a good one out there that goes thru all the settings. that may help with trees and environments.

good luck!

danb
07-18-2010, 07:11 PM
Actually everything is working now and i'm pretty sure it was my own mistake. I tried opening scenes that were 3d cornucopia files. I assumed they would open because they were vue scenes, but i guess they need to be purchased first. That's just underhanded, getting our hopes up like that. :drool: :cry: :)

danb
07-18-2010, 07:24 PM
Well i spoke too soon! I was doing a test render of one of the sample mountain/cloud scenes. I saved the scene as c4d file to my desktop. I then started the render. I opened a different vue scene from the collections panel and c4d crashed.

So i tried to open the c4d file i saved to restart the render and i'm getting an error message "incorrect file structure".

How do i open my c4d scene?

Linden-Stirk
07-18-2010, 07:43 PM
Perhaps you should not try to render one Vue scene and then open another scene at the same time. The error "incorrect file structure" probably means it's corrupted, I suppose.

I just got a trial of C4D and I am attempting to render a scene I created in Vue. It's been going for about ten minutes and nothing has happened yet, except for 6 yellow render boxes representing my 6-core cpu. How long does it usually take to render a Vue scene in C4D? (if anyone can figure out how to...haha)

danb
07-18-2010, 11:49 PM
Yeah i learned my lesson the hard way. I will not touch c4d when rendering a vue scene.

You should try opening a scene and rendering that. Also in the vue render settings you want to keep away from the user and ultra settings because they shoot render times very high.

I can render no problem, in fact i am rendering a very nice animation and each frame is only taking 3 minutes. My render settings are on "final".

danb
07-19-2010, 09:20 PM
Ok well i found a bug for sure in c4d xstream and its a big one.

When you open a file and change the antialiasing values the values get reset to the vue files orignal values if you open the vue render settings before rendering with the new alias settings.

So.. set new alias... don't render... go to vue render settings... close... go back to c4d's alias settings and you'll see they revert back to the original files alias settings.

I noticed this because i wanted to change the 1x1-16x16 alias of the vue scene to 1x1-4x4. Once i got it working renders were much faster!

Navstar
07-23-2010, 07:50 PM
Is the 8.5 64bit OSX version (beta or PLE) available for me to download (my last registered versions are both Infinite and XStream 6.5)?)

I just downloaded the 8.5 PLE of Xstream for Mac. I'm sad to report that everything Mac Vue is 32-bit -- including the plug-ins. So I have to run C4D in 32-bit mode too. It's making a very bad first impression and I haven't even used it.

Navstar
07-23-2010, 07:54 PM
Yeah i learned my lesson the hard way. I will not touch c4d when rendering a vue scene.

Would you say that Xstream 8.5 with C4D r11.5 is basically unusable? I have a small C4D render farm and was thinking of getting Xstream for an upcoming project.

Have you found any viable C4D-friendly alternatives? (I've read about DPIT Plants, Xfrog, and Terragen 2, but haven't heard any user experiences with them)

Linden-Stirk
07-23-2010, 07:56 PM
Ok well i found a bug for sure in c4d xstream and its a big one.

When you open a file and change the antialiasing values the values get reset to the vue files orignal values if you open the vue render settings before rendering with the new alias settings.

So.. set new alias... don't render... go to vue render settings... close... go back to c4d's alias settings and you'll see they revert back to the original files alias settings.

I noticed this because i wanted to change the 1x1-16x16 alias of the vue scene to 1x1-4x4. Once i got it working renders were much faster!

Yeah, I figured that out. 3ds Max does not use Vue's settings unless you set it to.

Linden-Stirk
07-23-2010, 08:01 PM
Would you say that Xstream 8.5 with C4D r11.5 is basically unusable? I have a small C4D render farm and was thinking of getting Xstream for an upcoming project.

Have you found any viable C4D-friendly alternatives? (I've read about DPIT Plants, Xfrog, and Terragen 2, but haven't heard any user experiences with them)


Vue is the best program I've used, but I only use PC's, not Mac's. However, for a render farm, keep in mind that you must purchase an e-on render license (~$500) as well as render nodes (5 nodes for ~$200). You should definitely trial different programs and plugins before buying one.

danb
07-23-2010, 08:12 PM
Would you say that Xstream 8.5 with C4D r11.5 is basically unusable? I have a small C4D render farm and was thinking of getting Xstream for an upcoming project.

Have you found any viable C4D-friendly alternatives? (I've read about DPIT Plants, Xfrog, and Terragen 2, but haven't heard any user experiences with them)

Vue xstream 8.5 for the PC works great besides the render settings problem. PC uses 64bit and i can get renders very fast! It'd almost be worth getting a pc for. :)

I don't think there is a comparable tool to Vue as far as the quality of features and objects go. Also Vue has some great tools that aren't available in other programs. Its materials are top notch, along with the cloud, plants and terrain generation.

C4d's sky objects and DPIT is the next best thing though.

danb
07-23-2010, 08:14 PM
Yeah, I figured that out. 3ds Max does not use Vue's settings unless you set it to.

So when you set it to use 3d max's settings does it revert back to vue's? That's what's happening with me. I set vue to use c4d's native settings, set c4d's settings, but they revert back to the vue scene orignal settings.

Linden-Stirk
07-23-2010, 08:22 PM
So when you set it to use 3d max's settings does it revert back to vue's? That's what's happening with me. I set vue to use c4d's native settings, set c4d's settings, but they revert back to the vue scene orignal settings.

In 3ds Max, when you load a Vue scene, it defaults to Mental Ray's settings (anti-aliasing min 1/4; max 4) There are other settings, but anti-aliasing is the main thing I alter. When you save the 3ds Max file, it maintains Mental Ray's settings, not Vue's. It is possible to set Mental Ray to render with the Vue scene's settings, though.

When I tried C4D, it did the same thing that happened to you.

RLM
08-16-2010, 12:11 PM
I have only just noticed this thread and am really gutted. After following Vue extremely closely for many years with the intention of purchasing it once all the bugs have been fixed. I honestly can't believe that there are still so many user reports about how buggy and unstable it is.

I am desperate to purchase and use this software, but don't want to go through hell and back trying to do so. Does anyone know of any hardware / computer set up's that Vue will run on and what can you expect from their technical support should something go wrong!

Thanks for your time and help,

Jay

Linden-Stirk
08-16-2010, 03:36 PM
If you're on a Mac, you should probably forget it based off the responses of Mac users here. If you're on PC, then it pretty much comes down to if you want xStream (the integrated version) or Infinite (the standalone version - which is generally more stable). I use xStream with 3ds Max and it's great. I've never had to contact tech support.

I've tried xStream with Maya and it's not very stable with large Vue scenes. Max only occasionally crashes, but usually auto-saves beforehand.

My basic specs are:
Windows 7 x64 Pro
AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2.8 GHz
8 GB DDR3
Nvidia GTS 250 512MB

You should definitely get the PLE trial to see for yourself. :)

RLM
08-16-2010, 03:59 PM
Thanks for the info Stirk, much appreciated. I have actually used numerous PLE versions of Infinite over the years, whilst I attempted to lean the program and test stability on my system at the time. As I always had mixed results and was too busy with other projects though. I never got around to creating a large-scale project to really test it, so maybe that's what I need to do.

I would be using a PC for sure though, so thanks for the info on your system spec. It's just such a shame that after almost 9 full releases, Vue is still renowned for bugs and stability issues.

Linden-Stirk
08-16-2010, 05:43 PM
It definitely is a shame. The number one reason that Vue crashes (for me) is because my graphics card runs out of memory for OpenGL. The viewport gets bombarded quite a bit sometimes. I only have 512MB and I would suggest at least a 1 or even 2 GB of built in graphics memory for heavily populated scenes.

RLM
08-18-2010, 12:14 PM
Thanks for the extra info as it's really good to hear other users stories on this. I wonder if there is a thread on 'working / tested hardware' by users and not just the E-on web site. Might be useful to other members like me. I would happily buy my next computer set up with Vue in mind, but would be mortified if it didn't work and can't really tests it until I have bought it etc.

Timmay
08-18-2010, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the extra info as it's really good to hear other users stories on this. I wonder if there is a thread on 'working / tested hardware' by users and not just the E-on web site. Might be useful to other members like me. I would happily buy my next computer set up with Vue in mind, but would be mortified if it didn't work and can't really tests it until I have bought it etc.

The only issue I've had so far is I had to disable some background drawing and AA in the viewport. I guess my card isn't good enough, or it's going bad because I've had other display issues outside of Vue.
I only use it for frames for matte painting and maybe an animated element (trees or water) here and there.

Specs
Vue xStream 8.5
Win 7 64bit
i7 Intel 920 @ 3.34 GHz
12GB RAM DDR3
ATI Radeon HD 4870 1GB

tecsun
08-19-2010, 09:34 AM
so lucky to see u guys here having the same stability & performance that I have encountered here. I thought it was my problem, haha :beer: Thanks for opening this thread and so many giving so much info here.

Well, I just started playing with Vue 8.5 PLE yesterday, frankly, the feature looks great and tree renders looks really good, but the stability & performance is terrible. I have crashed more than 10 times in less than 30 mins, and working with complex scene is disaster (I could handle better with vray proxies + object painter).

However, to make sure it's not the problem of my way of working, I listed here what I found it slows, hopefully experienced users here could give me some invaluable advice:

Long waiting time when adding items to Eco System. This is really productivity killer to me.
Eco System painting only work smooth in Top View, for certain time I can't paint in Perspective View.
Why no shift-drag for duplicate?
Create plant from species make 3dsmax crash quite often.
Scatter/Replica five trees took about 5 mins to recover from "Not Responding" mode.
Creating Large European Ash - Summer Spars will crash 3dsmax and will consume RAM up to 4GB++ which caused my entire systems halt for few mins.


and I realized Vue lack of some sweet functions that I was expecting it to have:

Transformation modification after ecosystem painting (sth like 3dsmax object-paint is great)
Preview of Eco System should not disappeared in Wireframe mode
Immortal Vue Camera? I try delete it but it keeps create a new one which is very annoying.
Can it simply don't create a Sunlight and Ground Plane for me? Everytime I have to delete it manually.


My system (tested on both):
Windows 7 64bit
Intel Q6600 (Intel i7 930)
3dsmax 2011
6GB DDR II (6GB DDR3)
Geforce 9800GTX (Geforce 465GTX)

ExtremeProjects
08-20-2010, 05:18 AM
Hey guys, I have just been put onto this forum by a friend. I was at Siggraph this year presenting with E-On and I hope that I can shed some light on some issues for you all.

@tecsun
I have a few solutions and answers for you, i'll answer each as they were numbered in your post.

1. When you add plants it has to load the entire mesh from the hard-drive. Imagine it's 200,000 poly's. Add textures to that and you can see why it takes awhile. If you grab an SSD hard-drive and have your assets on that you'll notice a huge speed up when adding them. I know cause I have one :)
2. This happens for me also, it must be some kind of processing thing. Hopefully they speed things up in the new versions
3. Try Alt-Click-Drag for duplicating. That's what the shortcut is set to in the standalone software.
4. Not sure about this problem, sorry :(
5. Have you tried working in the stand alone software and constructing your scene there first and then opening it up in 3ds Max later in your workflow?
6. This is a weird glitch. hopefully they fix it.

_______________

1. If you're talking about scaling trees then there is a way to paint the scale into the trees it's part of the ecosystem painter.
2. I think this might be a glitch on your system, possibly because of GPU memory
3 & 4. These elements that vue add's are because it needs these planes for reference. You should find that if you leave them alone it won't make any difference if you have your own skylight in there... Let me know how that goes.


For general stability I can only suggest using Vue as a standalone package for as long as you can in your workflow. Develop the scene by itself and then bring it into 3ds Max. This is what I'm currently doing with some scene's for my current Job. We'll probably just end up compositing them in post-production.


@RLM
Hey RLM,

If you're looking at purchasing a new graphics card for Vue then i'd say the Nvidia 200 series is your best bet. Don't bother with a dual-gpu card as no 3d software (as far as I know) uses a dual GPU for *realtime* rendering. (maybe they do for CUDA etc)... Also i'd say stay away from ATI cards, unfortunately ATI don't talk to the 3d world... well, not like nVidia are at least. There are some talks at the moment going on but it will be awhile before ATI have the upper hand in that department.

Take that with a grain of salt though. The professional series of ATI (and nVidia) cards I have heard work perfectly. So if you're grabbing something just for 3D then a firepro or quadro will do fine.

In regards to stability, I find that the program crashes a bit but after awhile you will have the experience with it and you'll know how to get around it. All 3d software crash, it's just a matter of knowing what not to do.... like turbo-smooth to 120 iterations ;)


Generally I try to stick within the stand alone software for as long as possible in a pipeline, then move across to the native software or just composite it at the post production stage. Works fine :)


___________________

Good luck with all your rendering!

- Conrad

RLM
08-20-2010, 09:26 AM
Hi guys,

Thanks for all the info, especially ExtremeProjects & Timmay. I think a sticky thread where users can post there technical set ups, version of Vue and experience may be a great idea too, as there is clearly demand for it!

I would definitely recommend using the stand-alone Infinite version of Vue over the integrated version anyday too. As if there isn't enough known problems trying to run Vue without integrating its functionality with another 3D Application.

Anyways, keep the posts and feedback coming as it can only help improve the software right?

L8rz,

ExtremeProjects
08-20-2010, 10:23 AM
No worries RLM,

I think you're right about the pc's + performance experience thread... It would be nice if E-On could test all the cards on the software but that would just be a logistical nightmare for everyone involved so it'll have to be up do us. Technically cards that support newer versions of OpenGL should support the older but we all know it never works quite that way.

:)

RLM
08-20-2010, 12:53 PM
Nice1, thanks for creating the new topic and let's hope it serves as ultimate point of reference for anyone serous about buying view with there current or proposed set-ups.

Jay

Linden-Stirk
08-20-2010, 01:03 PM
Yeah, 3ds Max is more prone to crashing if the Vue scene is altered in Max. I always just go back to the standalone to make changes if needed. Beforehand, I export objects to Vue so I know how to build around them, reducing the need to re-do anything when you see it in the Max scene.

@ExtremeProjects
Thanks so much for joining the discussion. You are a Vue master. I really admire your work on Deviant Art! :bowdown:

ExtremeProjects
08-20-2010, 01:22 PM
Thank you very much! :)

I get frustrated sometimes with my work as I constantly see renders by Dax or alexM and wish I could do that!
Dax has worked hard to get where he is, Alex... he's about 16 i think, and I have no issues staying that he has FAR more talent that I do. It will only be a matter of time until he is more knowledgable with the software also!

So yes... thanks a lot for the kind words, I'll be around for quite some time to come! watching these forums closely :)

Linden-Stirk
08-21-2010, 01:57 AM
Their work is bril too. I wish I were that great with Vue. :drool:

ExtremeProjects
08-21-2010, 01:07 PM
Hey guys,

You might be interested in this review of all the current pro graphics cards on the market.

Firepro vs Quadro's - Review (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/quadrofx-firepro.html)

In my opinion a mid-level gaming card from Nvidia does the trick just as well... Though i've never had a decent quadro/firepro to play.

tecsun
08-22-2010, 10:21 AM
ExtremeProjects -
Thanks for giving such an informative answer, made me so eager to try it again.

I'm playing with Vue Infinite now but sad to say it seems do not work well with my exisiting workflow. Our projects' changes are often tremendous and having ample time dealing with that is luxurious stuff for us. But still trying to get it work for me, funny, the viewport is very first thing that I couldn't cope with very well, the way it works seems different from 3dsmax/maya despite I've tried the max/maya interface preset. I guess need to take some time to figure it out, especially how to tally the camera and vray lighting setup between 3dsmax and Vue.

Regarding the speed, indeed I'm looking at SSD but it is no economical to have everybody upgrade to SSD just because of Vue.

Anyway, gotta play with it more and continue to study how to work around the problem like what you guys have suggested.

Back again~

ExtremeProjects
08-22-2010, 01:10 PM
No problems Tecsun,

happy to be of help.

I can definitely say that, while using Vue at first is confusing, learning the default interface is by far the best way to navigate the software. It's no-where NEAR as bad as Zbrush in my opinion but it just takes a bit of getting used to. Once you get past the basics you'll love it! There's proof that you *can* create amazing images in Vue :) just make sure you give it a good shot but don't over-do yourself if you get frustrated :)

RLM
08-23-2010, 08:21 AM
Conrad, do you know if it's possible to use 'Dual-screen' set-ups with Vue at all as I have never found any reference to it and would love to be able to to this.

Cheers,

Jay

ExtremeProjects
08-23-2010, 08:34 AM
Hi Jay,

I have dual screens at home also and I have tried doing it myself. The only time you can really do it is with the material editor, function editor, terrain editor... etc... All the pop up windows basically... If you drag them to a certain position (like a separate monitor) they will open up there in future.

Obviously this isn't "Dual Screen" but to be honest, I've never really found a dual-screen setup to be *that* much of an improvement for Vue... I find that I far enjoy watching a movie on my second monitor while working on my main one... that way when I am sick of pressing 'render' and going for a coffee, I can just sit there, drinking my coffee and enjoying a movie while my pc does a quick preview render :)

RLM
08-23-2010, 03:41 PM
Hi Conrad,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my dual screen query. It's a shame you can't really use Vue with a dual monitor set up though, as I always feel like I need more space for all my tool panels. Like you said though, suppose you can put reference images or other useful things on the second monitor instead.


Thanks again,

Jay

Navstar
08-23-2010, 09:12 PM
What about Mac users?

ExtremeProjects
08-24-2010, 02:26 AM
@Navarro

What would you like to know about the Mac Version?

RLM
08-24-2010, 08:08 AM
Ah, think he may be talking about the new topic we have created for PC hardware reference 'Post your PC Spec's Relating to Vue Performance').

@ Navstar, - users can also post info on Macs set-ups in the same topic too.

I use both PC and Macs too, but just happen to prefer PC's.

L8rz,

Jay

Nemo1975
11-24-2010, 09:15 AM
Hi Everyone,

It has been a while since the last post of this thread, but I'd thought I'd give it a go and add some info for all the Mac users:

I have Vue xStream 8.5 running on a Mac Pro 2008 with an ATI HD 2600 XT graphics card. I also have an iMac with 2 GB of RAM an ATI HD 2600 Pro graphics card. Both systems should work fine, but not so.
The iMac has an issue with the HD 2600 Pro graphics card and won't support some of the features in the terrain editor. Ofcourse with 2GB working with Eco Systems is a hassle (slow downs, crashes, etc). I use this machine for small scenes and setting some stuff up before switching to the Mac Pro.

The Mac Pro has 6 GB of RAM and still has some major slow downs and crashes when working with Eco Systems. I send a report to E-On and they replied within 2 business days advising me to work with different settings on the ecosystem tab in the material editor;
- Allow full quality near camera. Set this lower to limit it closer to the camera.
- For larger ecosystems, try using the dynamic population option which cuts down on the overhead of ecos.

This helped a lot in regards to performance. The software isn't useless anymore, but still no dream to work with either.

I also asked them if the ATI HD 5750 card would increase the performance of Vue. Their reply was that the HD 2600 card is supported for the Mac and is in fact a better card for me than the HD5750 while this card is not supported by Vue.
They didn't seem te be aware of the difference between the HD 2600 Pro and HD 2600 XT card and it's problems...

Using the xStream plugin in Maya works ok, though I have only used it with small additions from Vue, so no Eco System integration. When working with these Maya/Vue xStream scenes I only had issues with the lighting. The Vue-elements had some issues with over-illumination. Some small tweaks in the light-linking tab solved this.

Since I am mainly working with stills I still would like to integrate Vue more succesful into my workflow and really use the EcoSystems in my Maya-work. Therefore I'm trying to figure out if a new Mac or just a new graphics card would solve my problems?
I'm interested in to Quadro FX 4000 or FX 4800 graphics card, but I am wondering about the statement that "shaded billboards are not supported on Mac". I just posted a question about this to the Support Center of E-On, because it is not clear to me what this means exactly.

Maybe it's better to buy a new more powerful Mac Pro? Maybe I will upgrade my xStream to version 9 since this version will support Open CL for better performance.

Anyway, I'm still in the dark about where the bottleneck is located. Maybe one of you have some experience with this and would like to share it?

Anyway, I hope some of my findings will help other Mac users.

Linden-Stirk
11-24-2010, 04:17 PM
Interesting info. Still, Vue sucks on Mac and I doubt Vue 9 will be much different. I know that you just need to render stills, but for others reading this forum, using the dynamic population cannot be used for animation because the ecosystems will re-populate as the camera moves, making trees appear and disappear during the animation. If you're considering a buying a Mac Pro and the Vue 9 upgrade, it would be cheaper to buy a PC that will actually work with Vue. Of course you'd have to switch all of the software you use to PC. A lot of software allows you to switch a Mac-PC or vise versa for free. Vue is already cross-platform. It would be awful to pay so much and for Vue to still be very unstable on Mac.

Anyway, thanks for the info. :)

RLM
11-24-2010, 09:35 PM
Hi Nemo,

Thanks for taking the time to post your experiences with Vue so far, it will greatly help myself and others. I have been following Vue for many, many years now. In all that time, little seems to have changed and I personally get the impression that E-on really doesn't care all that much about single users or freelancers and instead focuses on large effects houses with huge render farms (I could be wrong of course, just my opinion from what I have read). I am ready to buy Vue, have been for years. The reason I don't is that I still can not find enough user feedback that is in favour of it. Every PLE version I have tested on numerous different machines from pc to mac, have all crashed constantly and had serious issues.

I would love to hear some serious feedback from users of Vue that don't have 1000 core render farms at their disposal and maybe even a bit of re-assurance from E-on too. At the end of the day, all you have to do is spend a couple of hours searching the net to discover that there are 100's if not 1000's of users in a similar position ready to buy Vue , when E-on address their concerns.

I think the majority of potential E-on customers really want to know what they can expect to achieve in Vue without using a renderfarm. As most users of the PLE version simple can't justify the time required to build a realistic scene just to test the animation rendertimes, especially when Vue may crash before completing it anyway. I truly think this is a very important question and one that seems to be asked over and over in multiple different ways on every forums too.

Again, Vue looks superb and I am ready to buy. I just want to see some more positive topics or feedback about it first. I am hoping Vue 9 has really improved and am currently waiting for the PLE version to try it for myself. In the meantime, please keep posting your own experiences here in the forums to help every other potential Vue user.

Does anyone have any experience with E-on tech support when things go badly wrong?

Regards,

Jay

Tangled-Universe
11-30-2010, 06:09 PM
RLM,

Sounds like you're ready to seriously look at / try Terragen 2 ;)

Super-stable UI and renderer, high quality real procedural displacements (and with real I mean a WHOLE planet and not a small section like in Vue which otherwise would crash), renders complex scenes faster than Vue as well. Cloud-shading and rendering is much more realistic, instead of "hollywood-ed" fake scattering/glow.
A down-side is exchange-ability between other software apps. There's no xStream like plugin, although there are some very good scripts for Max and C4D to exchange scene-elements.

And, important to you as I read, a solid and extremely helpful community.
Planetside is a very small company which still values every individual customer and in case of serious problems during a real production you'll get direct contact/technical support.

Soon a couple of high-profile movies will be released (Tron, for instance) which show that it's ready and suitable for big productions.
Perhaps not the best topic to start about it, but as I read 5 pages of misery here I think people might consider to look for other options ;)

Cheers,
Martin

RLM
11-30-2010, 09:11 PM
Hi Martin,

Thanks for taking the time to reply with this useful information. I'll take another look at Terragen on your recommendation then, as it sounds very interesting. So far I have been less than impressed with E-on and have now been waiting over 3 days for a sales related enquiry too, which really doesn't say much for them.

Thanks again,

Jason

eworc
12-01-2010, 02:37 AM
RLM:

I see some downsides with T2 though...you will need to purchase a 3rd party terrain editor like GeoControl...and for veggies, you will need Xfrog, so there's an added $167 dollars and $400 respectively to the T2 cost of $299 or $399 if you want a currently crippled animation module.

so based on your comments...

'I personally get the impression that E-on really doesn't care all that much about single users or freelancers and instead focuses on large effects houses with huge render farms (I could be wrong of course, just my opinion from what I have read)."

You are looking at a more pricey option for the single user/freelancer that is not in a single package but a comglomarate of T2 and 3rd party packages that probably have their own specific drawbacks.

Oh as far as E-on not caring about freelancers/single users and Hobby users for that matter...hardly any 3d software company does...Maxon Cinema 4D being the most recent example of giving the "smaller" userbase the shaft. Never Center Silo appears to be the only company off the top of my head that shows interest in the little guy but they look like they may be changing over to an iPhone developer.

Tech support from E-on hasn't been any worse than any other customer support I have ever communicated with. IMHO, with this kind of software, 3D, most of the people that use it don't call support unless it's really complicated, they have googled and forumed up but still have issues...which for the most part isn't going to be answered by a customer service rep on the phone that is only at a techincal level to help those that foget to turn the power on their computer and wonder why they can't get the software to work.

Tangled-Universe
12-01-2010, 09:45 AM
Eworc,

I think you're terribly mistaken by the fact that one would also need to buy a terrain editor.
Where did you get that idea from?
Like I said in my previous comment, which you maybe forgot to read, T2 has a very powerful procedural displacements engine. Very stable, able to generate a whole planet with full scale displacements ranging from kilometers down to a centimeter without any issues.
Also, export of terrain mesh and image-based terrains is possible.

The animation module is crippled indeed at the moment, but as far as I know no one animates straightly in Vue and many do it in Max or other xStream compatible packages.
A overhauled animation module is on the roll though, but I can't be anymore specific as I'm under a NDA. All I can say it will be more flexible, better keyframing, spline-based controls, that kind of stuff.

You're right that one would need to buy vegetation models. For some good quality Xfrog models are fine, but there's also quite much freely available if you search the Planetside forums and also high quality cheap models through NWDA.

Don't forget that for the additional $400 you'll get 1300 models which will work straight away without any hassle. Normally, when bought separately for $150 - 200/bundle, these models would cost $4400.

Here you can do the math again if you'd like:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/content/view/17/29/
http://www.xfrog.com/products/productStart.htm

Cheers,
Martin

eworc
12-01-2010, 04:20 PM
I think you're terribly mistaken by the fact that one would also need to buy a terrain editor.
Where did you get that idea from?

That idea came from the T2 website. http://www.planetside.co.uk/content/view/36/38/

"You can load existing heightfields to replicate real-world terrains and gain additional control by using a 3rd party terrain editor, or leverage the powerful built-in procedural functions to achieve global-scale terrains of nearly infinite detail, from the smallest pebble, to the largest mountains. You can combine the benefits of both terrain types in one scene, seamlessly. Even your heightfield terrains can be enhanced with the power and flexibility of procedurals. "

Perhaps the powerful built-in procedural functions, as described above is equivalent. I am just not reading that as the case in the documentation. Perhaps you can describe what exactly the built-in abilities are in T2 to manipulate a terrain mesh.


Like I said in my previous comment, which you maybe forgot to read, T2 has a very powerful procedural displacements engine. Very stable, able to generate a whole planet with full scale displacements ranging from kilometers down to a centimeter without any issues.


Yeah, I read that...but those are comments related to the rendering of meshes not so much clear on the manipulation of the meshes directly by the user, such as a terrain editor. I can provide a screen shot of E-on's terrain editor that gives an idea of it's direct user input....can you provide the same for T2 or a link. That would make it more clear to me and others what T2 can actually do without a 3rd party program.

Tangled-Universe
12-01-2010, 05:55 PM
That idea came from the T2 website. http://www.planetside.co.uk/content/view/36/38/

"You can load existing heightfields to replicate real-world terrains and gain additional control by using a 3rd party terrain editor, or leverage the powerful built-in procedural functions to achieve global-scale terrains of nearly infinite detail, from the smallest pebble, to the largest mountains. You can combine the benefits of both terrain types in one scene, seamlessly. Even your heightfield terrains can be enhanced with the power and flexibility of procedurals."

Perhaps the powerful built-in procedural functions, as described above is equivalent. I am just not reading that as the case in the documentation. Perhaps you can describe what exactly the built-in abilities are in T2 to manipulate a terrain mesh.


Not meant rude of course, but the text say "You CAN load existing...". So it explicitly does not say you must do that, or should do that.
I admit that in that regard the documentation/presentation is a bit weak.
Fact is, that it is not true. The sentences following your bold made text show this.



Yeah, I read that...but those are comments related to the rendering of meshes not so much clear on the manipulation of the meshes directly by the user, such as a terrain editor. I can provide a screen shot of E-on's terrain editor that gives an idea of it's direct user input....can you provide the same for T2 or a link. That would make it more clear to me and others what T2 can actually do without a 3rd party program.

TG2 and Vue differ in approach for rendering terrains.
For instance, TG2 doesn't necessarily start with a mesh you modify.
With procedurals you create a "mesh" by displacing fractals.
Stacking of fractals along with (math based) functions and restrictions you build up the complexity of the "mesh".

If you do not wish to use a planetary wide scene one could also start with a heightfield which has a user-defined size. You could consider this as a base mesh.
Then again, by adding/stacking fractals and functions you can add details/features.
In that regard, TG2 and Vue are pretty similar.

Yes, you can use a 3rd party app like World-Machine to create a base terrain mesh and modify that in TG2, but it is absolutely not necessary.
The argument that World-Machine would give more control can be argued, since the way both generate their procedurals is similar and so is their level of control.

In that regard Vue might have an advantage as sculpting tools are available, but all of these things is a whole different discussion since we were initially discussing stability issues and E-on's mentality towards its customers here. Not necessarily a TG2 vs Vue discussion you seem to be steering it into, because that would never work out anyway except for being it only a "side by side" comparison.

Martin

eworc
12-01-2010, 06:52 PM
Not meant rude of course, but the text say "You CAN load existing...". So it explicitly does not say you must do that, or should do that.
I admit that in that regard the documentation/presentation is a bit weak.
Fact is, that it is not true. The sentences following your bold made text show this.




You can argue sematics but based on the documentation I have read, again, if you can show otherwise, you will need a 3rd party terrain editor such as GeoControl if the user wants to modify (sculpt to be more precise) the mesh.

TG2 and Vue differ in approach for rendering terrains.


I haven't been comparing or discussing rendering....I have only tried to discuss the modification of terrain meshes.

Then again, by adding/stacking fractals and functions you can add details/features.
In that regard, TG2 and Vue are pretty similar.


Vue has a terrain editor in the program where the mesh can be modified via brushes....that doesn't sound similar to TG2's adding/stacking fractals/functions...which sounds like it modifies the whole mesh versus a user defined area. Show me otherwise.

Yes, you can use a 3rd party app like World-Machine to create a base terrain mesh and modify that in TG2, but it is absolutely not necessary.
The argument that World-Machine would give more control can be argued, since the way both generate their procedurals is similar and so is their level of control.


Show me why it is not necessary and how sculpting via GeoControl/WM is the same as whatever built-in tools you suggest are in T2.

In that regard Vue might have an advantage as sculpting tools are available

This has been the only argument I have been making, which you seem to agree with. So, I don't even know why you have and are still arguing it.


...but all of these things is a whole different discussion since we were initially discussing stability issues and E-on's mentality towards its customers here.


You brought up T2, not me. I was only pointing out some differences between T2 and Vue as far as I understand them to RLM. I made my comments in relation to stability and customer service, so it's not like I ignored RLM's comments and the general basis of the OP.

Not necessarily a TG2 vs Vue discussion you seem to be steering it into, because that would never work out anyway except for being it only a "side by side" comparison.


Come on...you bring up T2 and highlight what you consider to be good points about it by itself and in relation to Vue and I make some comments about T2 that I think are negatives, as I understand the software...and I am the one steering the conversation? If you don't want others to comment on T2...don't bring it up in the first place...but if they do, don't imply I am highjacking a thread....sheesh.

Tangled-Universe
12-01-2010, 07:56 PM
I didn't mean to offend you Eworc, so never mind :)

If Vue is too unstable and support is non-responsive and I read that from 5 pages on then in the context it is good to offer an alternative, un-arguably.
If someone drops an alternative then one can look at it, as RLM said he would do.
Other people feel a kind of "threat" instead when someone offers them alternatives and start having discussions in ways you're having them.

There's already so many things you are mistaken about that I don't know where to start anymore and the way you discuss things do absolutely not encourage me to try to explain it any further.

Also, this discussion is already too strongly biased towards an app A vs. B discussion which is always useless and will never have a "winner". You may call yourself the winner here, since that's obviously what you're after here ;)

Cheers,
Martin

RLM
12-01-2010, 07:57 PM
Guys, I am sure you are both raising valid points and both pieces of software have advantages and disadvantages too. However, please can we get back on to the original subject of the stability of Vue and quality of E-on's service etc.

For the record. I have been spending some quality time looking into T2 was very impressed with some of the images that were being produced. However, I personally felt like the interface and workflow are nowhere near as designer friendly when compared with the highly visual interface elements of Vue. So for me at least, Vue would still have to be the best option.

The downside is that Vue is obviously known to have stability issues and I am still waiting for E-on to even acknowledge a sales enquiry I sent to them over 5 days ago now too.

@ Martin - Thanks for offering an alternative as I did appreciate it and look into it too. Maybe one day I will take another look at Terragen too.

Cheers,

Tangled-Universe
12-01-2010, 08:05 PM
No problem Jason, I already gave up :)

I agree with you about the interface. TG2's is not up to par with Vue's.
The workflow is similar, but with some differences.
It lacks viewports for example and does not have sculpting tools which are important for control. Obviously, there are ways to do this in TG2 as well, though not as intuitive as it should/could be. Step by step these things are being improved at the moment.

If that difference still outweighs the instability and support issues then that's just your choice, no problem :)

RLM
12-01-2010, 08:19 PM
Hi Martin,

I come from a designer background so for me a designer-friendly interface and visual elements really make the difference. I've still not decided if I will buy Vue as of yet anyway though, as E-on still have not bothered to reply to a pre-sales email I sent 7 days ago. That's just bad business if you ask me, especially when I made it clear that I was ready to buy too.

I think that if Terragen could improve the following things, then they would be serious competition for E-on and I would definitely re-visit the software too.

1. Interface (currently far too dull and mathematical in appearance, from a designers perspective)
2. Tools - Need more visual tools like Vue
3. Render times for animations - If Terragen could demonstrate realistic render times for full animations, that would most likely be enough for most users.

Thanks again and stick around,

Jay

Tangled-Universe
12-01-2010, 08:23 PM
Hi Jason,

If you surf the planetside forums for a couple of hours you'll soon find out that your 3 requests are most requested there as well.
Especially the 3rd of course :D

TG2 renders complex scenes faster than Vue, pretty sure, but the more simpler scenes which are often suitable for animation are being rendered lots faster with Vue.
(on DeviantArt lots of Vue renders are accompanied by rendertime notes)

MikeFrampton
12-01-2010, 08:46 PM
RLM, not sure how you contacted sales, but they are usually very responsive. Please make sure you either call 866 3414 EON or post a request here:
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/InfoCenter.php?FromPage=ContactSalesRep

Thank you.
Best regards

eworc
12-01-2010, 08:50 PM
I merely pointed out three issues I thought were worthy to mention to RLM about T2. No threat, no offense. Merely giving some input to the discussion that was before me. I don't care about "winning" on internet forums, only about having a reasonable perspective on reality. If I had come to the wrong conclusion on the three things I mentioned, currently crippled animation, the need for Xfrog in order to have vegetation and the need for a 3rd party terrain editor in order to be able to sculpt the mesh, like Vue...then I wanted to know why.

Nobody has given me any reason to think I was wrong about these three things relating to T2. In fact you yourself have agreed to the matter multiple times...so it just puzzles me why you continue to say I am mistaken about something.

I am then told that this thread is about Vue's stability and customer support and not T2....and then you two continue to post about T2. Three's a crowd and therefore I will bow out of this discussion that has changing and arbitrary rules of discourse.

RLM
12-01-2010, 10:13 PM
RLM, not sure how you contacted sales, but they are usually very responsive. Please make sure you either call 866 3414 EON or post a request here:
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/InfoCenter.php?FromPage=ContactSalesRep

Thank you.
Best regards

Hi Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to help out here and it's great to see someone from E-on on the boards too. However, I used the link you provided when I submitted my original request 7 days ago and it's just been sitting there ever since unanswered.

I was ready to buy Vue on Monday and as they still hadn't answered by yesterday decided to spend my money elsewhere and purchased Modo instead. That's a sale lost for now at least!

Thanks,

eworc
12-01-2010, 10:36 PM
But...but...Vue isn't a modeling program and Modo isn't a landscape generator. Now it's all making sense. I've been had.....good show.

RLM
12-01-2010, 10:41 PM
No, u haven't been had at all. I had to decide between Modo for enhancing my modelling tool set and Vue so I could specialise in landscapes creation. Unfortunately though, as I could only buy one and got no reply from E-on after 7 days. I decided to leave it alone for now and go with Modo. I still would like Vue but finding decent, reliable information on what you can expect without the use of an entire renderfarm seems almost impossible and they still have not released their PLE version 9 to test yet either.

Cheers,

MikeFrampton
12-02-2010, 10:50 AM
RLM, I'm really sorry to hear that your ticket was never answered. I would like to look this up to find out what happened. Do you have a ticket Id, or can you disclose your full name so I can look it up myself? Note that if you need a prompt reply, calling is often the best option.

Tangled-Universe, congratulations on the new promo renders you made for planetside, they look terrific! You really are the master of Terragen!

Best regards

RLM
12-02-2010, 08:31 PM
Hi Mike,

I really appreciate you taking the time to look into this for me and my ticket was finally answered today by Lee, who was very thorough. To be honest and fair to E-on though. I kinda forgot that they were most likely extra-busy due to the fact they have just released version 9 of Vue, but an automated email explaining the delay would have helped for future reference. Otherwise, you simply think they can't be bothered replying as I originally did and this can obviously put you off when your interested in purchasing the software etc.

Anyway, thanks again and please stick around on the forums as I for one like the fact someone from E-on is actually here on the forums.

Regards,

Jay

MikeFrampton
12-03-2010, 07:47 AM
Hi RLM (Jay),

Oh, I'm glad to hear you finally did get an answer! Yes, the sales & support team have been rather swamped lately with the release of Vue 9.

I'll try to stick around, or at least drop by occasionally, but I can't promise.

Best regards

MarioC
12-03-2010, 05:17 PM
hm.. i wrote three emails to the vue support years ago. never got an answer. maybe the problem was, that i wrote the mails AFTER buying the software ;)

RLM, as a known vue - basher my suggestions are maybe subjectively biased, but i think buying modo was a good investment (despite the fact that i never used modo, but maya and other packages for years):

A) do you want the power of an abrams tank, then use the big ones (maya, houdini, zbrush, .. even blender. open source an free doesn't mean bad!) the downside will be a step learning curve, maybe..

B) do you want those nice shiny pictures by clicking nice shiny buttons, just because you have seen those nice shiny renderings all over the net, then use applications like vue and poser. people out there are soo happy with this applications, because (be aware of some kind of irony!) you do not need to learn them.

C) something in between would be nice? use terragen.

add A: if i (and also my employees) would have used the time to go deeper into our main packages like maya and houdini instead of having constant battles with vue (not just with vue itself. it just begins with the installing and activation process.. ask our admins!), we would render nicer pictures today.

years ago macromedia told the people, that they do not need to learn programming to get interactive things done by using flash. today most people have recognized, that getting cool stuff done with (the early versions of) flash has cost them the same amount of time like if the just had begun learning "real" coding.
i see the same with poser and vue: there are awesome pictures out there, from both packages, but the creators of them didn't made them by clicking around randomly on the nice shiny buttons, just to wait that the preview render looked nice enough to push the final render button. they learned the packages for months and years. so if you want realy professional output why not start with the professional packages and skip playing around with "easy to use"-applications?

there is a nice thread about vue in a professional workflow on cg talk.. and if you read through the postings you will find out that most of the guys there share my opinion. we got new artists during the last months.. when they heard, that we were once using vue they wondered, because their experience was "crashing all the time and to slow to wait for a final render".

why i write this? just because i like flaming e-on? no.. after kicking vue out of our pipeline years ago we bought vue 8 esprit to render our cloud-skyboxes for our games. nothing changed.. we all still shake our heads about vue (oh, that's not completely true! i had not a single crash till today. for vue THAT IS SOMETHING NEW).

Tangled-Universe, thanks for your information about terragen! i was using terragen 0.x for years, waited for v2 too long and then switched to.. you know :banghead: tried the trial of v2 but for me it has a bit to much of the vue philosophy i do not like (moving sliders, wait for a preview, if its good yeah, if not move the sliders again and wait..). maybe i should take a look at it once again :beer:

MikeFrampton
12-03-2010, 06:06 PM
MarioC, you seem to have had a really bad experience with Vue, and I'm really sorry about that. Fortunately, the feedback we are receiving on Vue 9 is excellent.
We strongly believe that ease-of-use is not incompatible with professional work, and it appears that most studios agree with us since they have upgraded to Vue 9 and renewed their maintenance plans.

The best I can recommend is that you download the freshly released Vue 9 PLE and take it for a spin.

Best regards

eworc
12-03-2010, 07:38 PM
MarioC -

Just curious, what software are you using that does what Vue or Terragen are made for?

I highly doubt that the vast majority isn't using a 3rd party modeller for object creation, besides rocks and terrain meshes in Vue and Terragen, so I really don't understand how Modo fits in a conversation about landscape software such as Vue and Terragen.

As far as ease of use, just look at Cinema 4D. I think they are evidence that 3D software can be robust and have ease of use. If a shiny button get's the result you need versus having to click on 13 levels of buttons and menus, then why isn't that a good thing? I think there is a big difference between simplification in software that restricts ability versus an efficient U.I.


so if you want realy professional output why not start with the professional packages and skip playing around with "easy to use"-applications?



Again, which is what? I would love to know what software out there eclipses Vue and Terragen for what they do. Please divulge.


tried the trial of v2 but for me it has a bit to much of the vue philosophy i do not like (moving sliders, wait for a preview, if its good yeah, if not move the sliders again and wait..).


How are you determining if setting changes are getting close to the results you want in your software packages? keying in a number versus moving a slider and then full render? Not certain about Terragen but Vue has a select render area option just like "complicated" software....so how is your philosophy different? You set up everything perfectly on the first go and go straight to production render?

wfstecko
12-03-2010, 08:05 PM
do you want those nice shiny pictures by clicking nice shiny buttons, just because you have seen those nice shiny renderings all over the net, then use applications like vue and poser.

I want an application that is functional; that comes first. But when I'm staring at my monitor for hour after hour an unattractive interface begins to remind me of my ex. :eek: I much prefer the shiny buttons.

Now that I've been using Vue 9 xStream for a while I'm quite happy with it. I'm no longer afraid to run it on the Mac integrated with C4D. I find it a lot more stable. My render times have improved, as have the quality of my renders. I haven't had a chance to try an animation yet to see if the flickering issues have improved.

Of course, I'm just seeing this from a hobbyist's perspective, which is much different from a production perspective.

Walter

Tangled-Universe
12-04-2010, 12:57 PM
C) something in between would be nice? use terragen.

...

Tangled-Universe, thanks for your information about terragen! i was using terragen 0.x for years, waited for v2 too long and then switched to.. you know :banghead: tried the trial of v2 but for me it has a bit to much of the vue philosophy i do not like (moving sliders, wait for a preview, if its good yeah, if not move the sliders again and wait..). maybe i should take a look at it once again :beer:

I don't really understand what you mean with Vue philosophy. Also in regard to Vue.
Like Eworc said Vue and Terragen (perhaps to a lesser extent) do have render windows for instance.
The only difference with the big software packages is that some of the settings use sliders, so what? The biggest difference is that the big software packages contain more settings, lots more and that the majority is not made of sliders.
In case of Terragen 2 there's an obvious reason for this. The sliders are an indication of what a usual range of settings is for that specific parameter. As documentation is in development the user needs help while using the software and its parameters. Many of the parameters are not specific units so one would easily use ridiculously stupid input for a parameter. That's where a slider can get handy, because it makes the user realize "hmmm..perhaps I shouldn't go beyond this" ;) (fortunately you can)

I've been following Vue as well in the past years and from Vue and TG2 I know these renderparameters window grows with each release. So I think it's also a proces of software-development we're talking about here. The more each product expands its abilities the more it will move towards the big software packages.

About "something in between? use terragen"... This is such a clear example of how Terragen is being labeled by the professional CG industry. Mainly because of the 0.9x series which would definitely fit in the serie of Poser and such pieces of software where "click'n'render" fits. I think it has really outgrown this history and I think that also accounts for Vue.

(A fine example of this attitude is the "Ansel Adams" modeling contest here. I think for maybe one exception nobody mentioned Vue or Terragen as a tool to reproduce Ansel Adams work.
His work consisted for 99% landscaping and I've never seen so many people doing hard work to find Ansel Adams pictures of cars and buildings :) lol )

Also, the learning curve is everything but flat nowadays and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
The output quality of my work is a product of many spent hours with the software and I see your point of "why not skipping that and get straight to the big packages?", but there's also a factor of money, personal interest in what I want to create and using something as a kind of step up (also because of the money issue of course).

It's a good thing you've tried it, but maybe you should try harder and try to look beyond the sliders or beyond the fancy buttons in case of Vue ;)
What matters at the end is the result. I'm pretty sure your client is totally un-interested in how you made it ;)

Cheers,
Martin

eworc
12-04-2010, 03:49 PM
and I see your point of "why not skipping that and get straight to the big packages?"



I don't see his point, maybe you can explain it to me. What are these "bigger" packages that equate to a Vue/Terragen...but are better at what Vue/Terragen do? I don't think matte painters are going to be extinct anytime soon but from what I have read, a lot of them have been using Vue as at least a basis on a lot of shots in major movies of late....the right tool for the right job.

Tangled-Universe
12-04-2010, 06:14 PM
I don't see his point, maybe you can explain it to me. What are these "bigger" packages that equate to a Vue/Terragen...but are better at what Vue/Terragen do? I don't think matte painters are going to be extinct anytime soon but from what I have read, a lot of them have been using Vue as at least a basis on a lot of shots in major movies of late....the right tool for the right job.

I think he basically means that with the same invested amount of time you could either learn Vue/Terragen completely or max/maya/whatever...Which he probably considers as better invested time.

I agree with you that one should use the right tool for the right job.
It fits with the bottom line I made. It's the least of your clients' concern.

eworc
12-04-2010, 09:13 PM
I think he basically means that with the same invested amount of time you could either learn Vue/Terragen completely or max/maya/whatever...Which he probably considers as better invested time.



That of course makes sense depending on what you want to do. The problem I had with that thought in this thread was there has emerged an apples to oranges comparison which I don't think is resonable with software such as Vue/Terragen versus "bigger packages".

Tangled-Universe
12-04-2010, 09:47 PM
Eworc :argh:
Blame Mario, not me :)

eworc
12-04-2010, 10:38 PM
Well...blaming is normally perceived as a negative :surprised I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the capabilities.

RLM
12-05-2010, 10:15 PM
Hi Mario,

Thanks for the info you have provided regarding Vue, but I think you have got confused somewhere along the line. I am already a seasoned 3D professional with years of experience in the industry and am currently just looking for ways to expand my existing tool set. I am not looking for 'one click' simple applications that produce top quality results by clicking ' nice shiny buttons' as you put it. Martin - I don't really understand what the comments about 'trying harder' were all about either. Vue can be a very complex program if used correctly and certainly shouldn't be considered easy! Maybe I misunderstood you though?

I think many people may have the wrong idea about the capabilities of Vue to. The full version of Vue can not be considered a 'one click' application or easy application that produces fantastic results by clicking 'nice shiny buttons at all. To produce realistic results you need to first delve into the function editor and get to grips with the different material nodes, which many users already find too complicated to be honest. It's certainly can not be considered 'simple' if that's what Mario was implying. The great misconception with Vue is that all you have to do is 1. click to add an atmosphere 2. click to add a terrain and then click 'render' and you get perfectly realistic and final results.

This always makes me laugh as you can spot these type of renders miles off. Vue can be extremely complex, but you need to spend a lot of time tweaking and fine tuning all the settings for lighting, rendering and materials in order to get anywhere near realistic and final results. I have never doubted what Vue is capable of, just if it is viable in a production environment without a huge render farm at your disposal. Mario, I am sorry if you have had no luck using Vue and thanks for sharing your feedback with us too. Obviously there are a lot of similar stories to yours on the forums, which is why I want to hear more from current users before purchasing myself. I am currently testing out Vue 9 PLE so will see how it goes before deciding if I will purchase it in the future. So far though, the main drawback and concern for me is simply and only render times.

Cheers

RLM
12-05-2010, 10:33 PM
That of course makes sense depending on what you want to do. The problem I had with that thought in this thread was there has emerged an apples to oranges comparison which I don't think is resonable with software such as Vue/Terragen versus "bigger packages".

Hi eworc,

I completely agree. I don't see how anyone who really understands Vue and TG would be able to make ANY comparisons between them and the 'Big packages. Vue is a specialist application built especially for creating landscape and outdoor elements only and doesn't have even have modelling tools. Although you can of course still create some fantastic landscape elements using the main 3D packages like Max, Maya, Lightwave, Modo and Cinema 4D. You are not going to have anywhere near the same level of control over those elements as you would using Vue. Hence why we are interested in Vue particularly here. The only concerns for me are stability and rendertimes and when these become more acceptable for users without renderfarms, then I will be very happy.

Have you tried Infinite PLE 9 yet by any chance as I am just testing it now.


On another note. PLEASE can we all stay on topic here and get back to discussing the stability of Vue. Let's leave software comparisons for another topic. Anyone who reads this clearly already wants to use Vue, and this is a Vue forum after all.

Cheers,

eworc
12-06-2010, 04:42 AM
Vue 8 Studio hasn't crashed on me since I went down a notch on the hardware OpenGl options. I have an ATI card in my laptop....so I believe it's not the best for Vue. Other than that, no stability issues at all. I can't answer your other questions seeing as it would be contrary to the topic. Maybe on a different thread.

RLM
12-06-2010, 10:58 AM
Hi eworc,

Thanks for the info. I have also heard that Nvidia cards generally work best with Vue, so maybe switching may help! The only other question I asked was in relation to Vue 9, which is relative to this topic in terms of how you have found stability so far etc. I was only wondering if you had tried it yet and you can post any feedback in the specific Vue 9 topic in this forum that I started a few weeks ago.

eworc
12-06-2010, 03:09 PM
I have tried Vue 9 PLE.

RLM
12-06-2010, 03:34 PM
Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

eworc
12-06-2010, 04:52 PM
What is it that you want? I answered your question. Quite frankly, you have enjoyed the liberty of expressing thoughts on this thread that contradict the admonishment you give to others. If you want an actual conversation, perhaps you should lighten up and let others say what they want as well.

There are not enough conversations on this Vue board for a need to start getting all structural.

RLM
12-06-2010, 08:01 PM
I think you have misunderstood me somewhere along the line here. I didn't even start this thread and agreed with some of your comments so please calm down. I simply suggested that in order for the topic to be useful to others that we try to keep on topic, that's all. I don't know where you anger comes from seriously man, chill out. Giving one sentence answers doesn't help anyone and I was trying to keep the conversation flowing by asking you for feedback on the stability of Vue 9.

Read the comments more carefully before launching into an attack on someone next time.The topic was started by someone who wanted feedback on the stability of Vue and many users on here had taken this off topic and started to discuss other programs and make comparisons, which doesn't serve anyone who finds this topic in the future when looking for reference on the stability of Vue does it. Anyway, I am not going to argue with you when you so clearly have a chip on your shoulder already.

If someone comes on here and searches for previous topics and info about Vue and gets this topic which should be about just that. The last few pages are going to be about comparisons between Vue and other packages, rather than about the actual stability of Vue. Get my point! You can all discuss what you want. I was only making a suggestion and continuing this pathetic bickering won't help anyone. Let's move on.

eworc
12-06-2010, 09:24 PM
I went back and re-read the relevant posts to see if I had perceived it wrong. Nope.

Post # 67, you get to say what you want off topic.
Post # 69, you get to say what you want off topic.
Post # 84, you get to say what you want off topic and tell others to stay on topic.
Post # 86, you get to say what you want off topic.
Post # 106, you get to say what you want off topic.
Post # 107, you get to say what you want off topic and tell others to stay on topic.

You can't have it both ways. A reasonable person would either just ignore you or point out the duality of your posts in an attempt to have further conversations that are on equal terms of respect.

RLM
12-06-2010, 10:33 PM
I think you are really taking things far too serious and literally too.I have already stated that I simply suggested that we get things back on topic, that's it! What is your problem here. I'm not a moderator you know. You can do as you please. My word isn't final, so why are you obsessing over a comment I made about staying on topic. Chill out. It was a suggestion and I didn't go on any rant like you have. I was nothing but polite and courteous to you, so really don't know why you feel it appropriate to target me in the way you have.

In case you have not noticed from my numerous posts in these forums. We both have the same interests and seem to want to improve the Vue forums and the amount people are using them. This type of personal attack really does nothing for anyone. After re-reading your previous posts in this forum though, it's clear you like to argue. So what's the point? You spent a fair amount of time arguing with Tangled Universe when all he tried to do was recommend TG, So there's a running theme with you and you seem very unstable to me too? It's REALLY not normal to obsess over anything the way you have over a simple suggestion you know! This is a professional forum and shouldn't be used for petty, childish arguments like this either.

I'm done in the topic now, so you can rant about what you like from now on as you have issues.

eworc
12-06-2010, 11:02 PM
I have already stated that I simply suggested that we get things back on topic



Yeah, after you get to say what you want. That's the point I keep making to you but either you don't get it or are just too stubborn to admit it. Of course you are not the moderator, though that's what a moderator would do and of course it's just a suggestion...but your suggestion is annoying when it originates from somebody that doesn't follow it themselves in the same thread.


We both have the same interests and seem to want to improve the Vue forums and the amount people are using them.


Which is why I "suggested" you lighten up and allow conversations to evolve on their own.

This type of personal attack really does nothing for anyone.


This isn't about your character, your professionalism, your talent, nothing...just a quirk you are showing that, in my opinion, at least squelches my input, whether you mean for it or not. I don't think you do, hence why I bother to point it out to you in the first place. You are taking this as a personal attack, why I think it shows respect for your input.

So, I have told you what the deal is, I have pointed out specific examples to back it up. You can continue as such or recognize what you are doing and adjust and the input on this board will reflect either decision by whatever measure it affects, large or small.

Nemo1975
01-24-2011, 11:41 AM
Some time ago I posted here about my problems with Vue xStream and my current Mac computers. Last month I bought a new computer, an iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel i5 with ATI HD5750 (1024 GB) and 4 GB of RAM. Not especially for Vue, but mainly for my other work. I did install Vue on my new computer and took it for a spin;

I must say Vue xStream runs beautifully! First I tested version 8 with some heavy Eco-systems and made some test animations. There were no crashes, glitches or anything. I was so exited about finally being able to work with Vue xStream that I purchased the update to version 9 which runs even better.

In the last month I have been able to complete several personal projects in just a fraction of the time that it usually took me to complete it. I'm so happy with the results. Both the new iMac and the latest version of Vue xStream really work the way they are supposed to.

By the way, according to e-on the ATI HD5750 won't support some of the features listed, but I have had absolutely no problems at all. Up until now everything works.
Also, when you keep your eco-systems in a seperate layer that you can turn on and off the latest version of Vue xStream really benifits from that and keeps the interface fast and steady when making adjustments in the non-eco-system-parts.

I dont' know if the same applies to the Mac Pro with the ATI HD5750 card. The cards may seem the same, but I had problems with the ATI card in my iMac (several functions were not supported and the system would crash) and no problems at all (besides of being slow due to lack of memory) with the same ATI card in the Mac Pro. So, it's possible they do differ a bit.

My experiences lead me to think that the problem with Vue & Mac was mainly located in the combination of processors, RAM memory and the memory on the graphics card. Also, version 9 is 64 bit and you can really tell that you benifit from that.

I waited with posting this until I had some more reference-experiences, because I'd might run into some problems later. But until now I've had no problems and no crashes. I haven't tried xStream extensively with Maya yet (I mean really big heavy eco-systems and heavy Maya-scenes put together). I'll try that in the months to come. I'll post my experiences with that in the future. But I thought that it would be nice to share my positive Mac/Vue experiences with you. There is indeed hope for the Mac users.

All the best!

kromekat
01-24-2011, 11:52 AM
Thats really great to hear Nemo! :D - maybe there is hope yet for Vue on the Mac platform!?

I have downloaded the PLE on my Xeon MacPro, and will also try it on my MacBook Pro i7 to see how it works on both.

Do keep us informed!

Adam :)

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