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brainycomp
03-21-2010, 08:16 PM
Ok...maybe one of you guys can help me out here. Ive been searching for years for an ultra realistic explosion done in maya but ive had no luck. ok, I've seen pretty good stuff and maybe im just naive but i cant seem to find any books, threads, or scene files that really wow me.

i know theres threads already on this but i still havnt seen anything that comes close to what ive seen in alotta big-budgeted movies out there.

is it even possible for us small guys to create such a thing with maya?

is there anything that even comes close to what 3d studio max users have at their disposal for maya?

i already know about overburn. its great but theres gotta be something better out by now...right?

any ideas?

thanks guys! :beer:
Mike

SePu
03-21-2010, 10:08 PM
Mmmmmm
well just right below this post is a pretty good start .....
check the thread out http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=86&t=757114

Aikiman
03-21-2010, 10:17 PM
Have a look at this thread also..

http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=139

This is the FX wars challenge about to finish tomorrow. There are one or two of us using Maya and getting some good results. We are just about to upload our finished nuke tonight or tomorrow which will show you we got pretty close I think.

Heres a couple of grabs.

brainycomp
03-21-2010, 10:18 PM
Thanks guys...the nukes look great!

Ive looked through the thread a few times but just like many other threads on this, it mainly discusses creating nuke simulations.

I'm talking about smaller explosions...like a car explosion or a house or something where the movement of the smoke, debris, and flames are more sporadic/random.

Thanks though!

Aikiman
03-21-2010, 10:46 PM
Of course there are, Maya has been used on numerous high budgeted movies for explosions and fire, perhaps not a nuke but smaller explosions for sure. If you said you have read that thread on nukes and didnt get what you are after then I think you have missed the point. Theres a ton of info in there and some other threads that explain the inner workings of Maya fluids so that you can make your bomb.

The randomness can be achieved in a number of ways it all depends on what you want. Multiple volume axis fields to direct the fluid inside your container, multiple emitters keyframe different attributes at different times, turbulence settings on emitter or temperature, using particles to drive your fluid etc etc, its all there.

Aikiman
03-21-2010, 11:05 PM
Forgot to mention that fluids has had an upgrade in Maya 2011!

brainycomp
03-21-2010, 11:43 PM
Maya 2011 does look pretty sweet. Anyone know the exact release date?

SebKaine
03-22-2010, 02:51 PM
most maya fluid simulation posted here are presented without any compositing. I agree that 99% of maya simulation doesn't look perfectly photoreal. But you miss one major step in the process, the BIG step => compositing. Add some dust + debris + warper + some real footage + lighting + color grading etc ... and you will get your photoreal look.

Fume is also my favorite plug for pyro , but it still look like something done with FumeFx, it's not photoreal ... it's the same thing with realflow , it looks very good but you can said that it was done with realflow ( of course if you work in the 3D , Fx area ... ) add some water footage + foam at comp time and you will get water ...

tpalamar
03-22-2010, 03:40 PM
I'm talking about smaller explosions...like a car explosion or a house or something where the movement of the smoke, debris, and flames are more sporadic/random.



Yeah, I have been working on this for a while and have come up with some great results. I think the hardest part of it is finding reference material of an explosion that is not grandiose or staged, something natural.

brainycomp
03-23-2010, 03:10 AM
I agree, you guys do make some good points...

It is hard to find good reference material. I'm sure the day will come when 3d artists can drag, drop, and tweak with great results..but that day is still far far away. So I guess we'll just have to deal with it as it is. :rolleyes:

If anyone has any good case studies on this subject, please share! It would be great to read how its done by the big boys!

There's always a way and I'm determined to find it!!! :bounce:

Aikiman
03-23-2010, 03:24 AM
The biggest hindrance is more realism = more voxels = more sim and render times = harder to learn. You just have to throw yourself into it and try and find ways to manage your scene and minimize waiting around for a result. Often it IS a matter of waiting around but the more you practice you soon can see where the problems lie in your sim and you know what to tweak straight away so the problem is solved and you can move onto the next one.

noticeus
03-23-2010, 10:11 AM
well, as already mentioned above many major feature films were created with maya fluids according to explosions and fire. the main thing of course is the integration with compositing into the shot which makes or breaks the realism of the sim.

about drag and drop simulation presets I don't think this will ever work. what you get from that is that every simulation can immediately be pointed out as fluids from packge X. happened at the beginning with 3D studio max and pyro plugins where you could tell that certain fxw were done with this plugin. so in terms of variety you'll need to know your tools and settings to achieve a realistic looking nuke, explosion, fire or whatever... presets should always just be there to give you a starting point.

tpalamar
03-23-2010, 01:00 PM
Yeah, I agree presets will never be the end all be all. Every shot is unique and as more and more people embrace digital effects the need for diversity will increase. At the cgbacklot.com (http://www.cgbacklot.com) we have been building assets that allow the user to start with a base effect/asset. They come with basic high level controls to make modifications without having to understand what is going on under the hood. At the same time, there is a simply "delete all" to get rid of the simplicity and make any changes you want. They are glorified presets but the point is to focus on creating a final look instead of the constantly re-inventing and building from scratch or hours of troubleshooting.

So brainycomp drag and drop is close but as noticeus points out you will always want to make some modifications.

What would be really cool is to drag and drop and have the asset dynamically update to its new environment, based on scale, the weather conditions, etc.... ah yeah maybe Maya 3011.

brainycomp
03-23-2010, 02:27 PM
haha! Maya 3011! Can't wait!

Thanks you guys. All I was really searching for anyway was some helpful insight on the matter and this has helped a lot.

And remember, if anyones got any good scene breakdowns/case studies please please share! :thumbsup:

cheers! :beer:

Aikiman
03-23-2010, 08:43 PM
All hail the "Make Easy" button, Im not sure I dream for it or loathe it.

pix3lm0nk
03-24-2010, 10:56 AM
drag and drop/make easy button doesn't teach you WHY the effect is or is not working for you. Little icons of teapots which bring up wizards in a zippy interface don't bring knowledge to the table. Like some people said, that's where practice comes in. You need to understand how each element in fluids AND particles works and how they interact.

SebKaine
03-24-2010, 12:50 PM
for the best ressource about Pyro and everything in the Fx & Rendering Field, the Siggraph Notes are i guess the best stuff you can find, it's maybe too technical in some point , but big studios gives their cooking secrets ... and thats very very interesting ... Moreover you can understand 50% without reading the horrible mathematical expression ...

http://portal.acm.org/dl.cfm
http://graphics.pixar.com/library/

destruct007
03-24-2010, 04:12 PM
realistic isn't hard, its realistic "movie" explosion thats hard.

Real explosions are ubber fast. Instantaneously fast, in that the shock wave is the destructive force. Its the smallest flash and big smoke that moves really fast.

Movie explosions on the other hand are gasoline (petrol for you brits and ausies) based explosions (or other burning gas/liquids) Movies want to see lots of fire, always shot in some what slow motion otherwise it's be only a few frames.

When you say realistic explosions there are so many types of explosions, scale plays a big part. Basically study the explosion you want, break it down into elements that can be created and controled and start building it. Like people said there's no easy button. Just people who can make it look easy ;) from a lot of study and experience.

tpalamar
04-09-2010, 01:21 PM
Here is a smaller type explosion that I have been working on.

http://www.speffects.com/images/postings/smokeExplosion9.mp4

It is meant to be something like an oil explosion or tanker type explosion.

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