Graduates condemned to 'coffee shop jobs'

[leigh]

There is also a recession going on or should I say a slow response of coming out of this recession.

Just yesterday I was reading an article in the news about how visual effects is going to be added to the skills shortage list in the UK. Because the fact is that studios struggle all the time to find people to fill vacancies. Graduates not being able to find work has a lot less to do with the economic environment and a lot more to do with simply falling short of the required skill levels. And while it's easy (and often quite fair) to point the finger of blame at schools for offering such extraordinarily shit courses in increasingly popular fields like CG, there is also a responsibility on behalf of all of those wanting to get into these industries to get off their arses and actually make an effort to develop their skills too. People don't get jobs based on degrees or other certifications, they get jobs based on their portfolios.

What would you if your where a college lecture teaching CG say to this years graduating students?

I don't want to be a grammar nazi, but I honestly had to read this a couple of times to understand what you're asking. Anyway, if I was an instructor, I'd simply tell everyone that it's up to them to understand the requirements of the industry, and to ensure that they work hard enough to meet those demands. Courses are there to teach them the fundamentals, but they need to build on that themselves. Instructors who hold their students' hands throughout courses are doing more harm than good - students have a responsibility to themselves to develop a critical eye when it comes to viewing their own work. Out of every graduating class, the ones who get the jobs are always the ones who took the initiative to better themselves at every opportunity.

[danshewan]

Just yesterday I was reading an article in the news about how visual effects is going to be added to the skills shortage list in the UK. Because the fact is that studios struggle all the time to find people to fill vacancies. Graduates not being able to find work has a lot less to do with the economic environment and a lot more to do with simply falling short of the required skill levels.

Agreed. Even now, when the recession is still selling tabloids and convincing everyone that the end is near, there are so many vacancies here in London.

I honestly cannot imagine anyone with a strong (read: professional quality) reel failing to land a gig in London right now.

[dax3d]

I don't know why, I thought it was an opposite sort of situation in London. Again, only perception, but I thought there was a huge 3d talent base in London..and don't really bother to try and get in from the outside. Not sure where I heard that, but interesting to hear it's not the case.

As for what to tell any new graduates, Leigh is right on the money.

[grantmoore3d]

Keep in mind that Leigh is talking about the need for skilled workers, not entry-level. So while they may need people, they won`t just be taking anyone who has touched 3D.

[jorx]

Keep in mind that Leigh is talking about the need for skilled workers, not entry-level. So while they may need people, they won`t just be taking anyone who has touched 3D.

Very true. Education here in NZ isn't that great; but it's more an issue from un-motivated un-directed students then any institute's fault.

I find students are more keen to do what they "like best" (read: 80% going into modeling and animation). Personally I specialized in areas I knew the industry needed; had no problem getting a job. But there are many people who go into the course, start off interested in the early part, and never get past modeling and animation. No wonder competition in those fields is high.

[mr Bob]

Just yesterday I was reading an article in the news about how visual effects is going to be added to the skills shortage list in the UK. Because the fact is that studios struggle all the time to find people to fill vacancies. Graduates not being able to find work has a lot less to do with the economic environment and a lot more to do with simply falling short of the required skill levels. And while it's easy (and often quite fair) to point the finger of blame at schools for offering such extraordinarily shit courses in increasingly popular fields like CG, there is also a responsibility on behalf of all of those wanting to get into these industries to get off their arses and actually make an effort to develop their skills too. People don't get jobs based on degrees or other certifications, they get jobs based on their portfolios.

Is this article online ?

[leigh]

It was online, but I can't find it now. Typical.

[leigh]

I still can't locate the article, but here is a PDF directly from the UK home office:

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/workingintheuk/shortageoccupationlist.pdf

It seems that many CG positions are already on the list:

the following roles within visual effects and 2D/3D
computer animation for film, television or video games:
- animation supervisor
- animator
- computer graphics supervisor
- technical director
- VFX supervisor
- modeller
- rigging supervisor
- rigger
- matte painter
- texture artist
- compositing artist
- producer
- production manager
- editor
- R&D tools
- R&D software
- software engineer
- system engineer

[GregStrangis]

That's some interesting news. I wonder if that would give us international people who apply a better chance.

[leigh]

In the last six to twelve months, it seems that a lot of Americans have been arriving in Soho and starting work in the big VFX studios.

[GregStrangis]

Hmm, that is good news to me =). I actually have some family moving to London in a few months. Maybe I shall try to send some resumes out that way.

[KrzysztofFus]

In the last six to twelve months, it seems that a lot of Americans have been arriving in Soho and starting work in the big VFX studios.

Damn Americans, They tuck er jerbs.
Rabble Rabble Rabble.
I just had to.

haha

[notsosure]

If one does a UCAS search; on their website there are 338 courses in CG

UCAS search

Computer graphics = 95

Animation = 243

Some are HND/2 year foundation but most are BA/BSC.

If each course delivered 20 students per graduation year that makes 6760 potential candidates for this vacuum of places for employment in these VFX comp in Soho.
Surely out of the 6760 potential candidates they must be able to fill these jobs?
Also there are loads of Arty students that mess around with 3D and Computer application to make their art so 6760 people is a very low estimate.

If only a few are good at what they can do then quite clearly the courses must be off at a complete tangent.

Why is that?

And what are these lectures telling the students as loads get 2:1 2:2 in this filed of study.

[KrzysztofFus]

Yeah but out of the 6760 graduates you need to factor in that maybe only 10% of them are any good.
If one does a UCAS search; on their website there are 338 courses in CG

UCAS search

Computer graphics = 95

Animation = 243

Some are HND/2 year foundation but most are BA/BSC.

If each course delivered 20 students per graduation year that makes 6760 potential candidates for this vacuum of places for employment in these VFX comp in Soho.
Surely out of the 6760 potential candidates they must be able to fill these jobs?
Also there are loads of Arty students that mess around with 3D and Computer application to make their art so 6760 people is a very low estimate.

If only a few are good at what they can do then quite clearly the courses must be off at a complete tangent.

Why is that?

And what are these lectures telling the students as loads get 2:1 2:2 in this filed of study.

[notsosure]

Isn't 700 graduates (taking your 10%) a year not enough?

Or are there thousands of vacancies in the CG/VFX industry annually?

[DanielWray]

I would say this;

"Congratulations (It's a given really, they passed their course)

The dole line is that way *Silence*

I do joke of course, but let me just say this, regardless of how bad the economy may be or how bad thing's are 'suggested' to be getting, people carry on with their lives and the economy goes on, there are jobs out there and there are opportunities, but let it be said that no one get's anywhere doing nothing. You have to be pro-active in all that you do, you have to be prepared to put in that little bit extra, to really push yourself and excel.

Don't take this as a 'work for pennies or free' speech, hold your head up high and demand what your talents and skills are worth after all, you graduates have all studied and (I hope) poured your hearts and souls into perfecting your abilities over last 4 years.

There is a whole planet out there to explore and enormous possibilities, don't let the words of others spoil your quest for success and happiness."

Or something like that.. Really people put too much emphasis on the negatives nowadays and never tell people just to go for it. It's ridiculous.

[DanielWray]

Isn't 700 graduates (taking your 10%) a year not enough?

Or are there thousands of vacancies in the CG/VFX industry annually?

Well if you break that down further a portion of them will probably not want to go into the sector. Then on top of that you have all the various situations which arise in peoples lives which alter or change their plans.

So many things to go off, you can't just say 700 people = 700 fit for work and capable people.

At the end of the day, people shouldn't worry about how many other people in the country are going for that work, they (and this is me too) should just worry about how they are doing with their own life, how their skills are progressing and what options they have available. It's a lot more important you know :)

Also I'll just add. I'm on a Bsc Computer Animation course, there are about 100 students and not one person on that course, that I know of has done any sort of animation or computer arts work, except some photoshoping and photography.

People will graduate from these courses and be good at art, but that doesn't mean they will be anywhere near as good enough to work in a studio.

[moidphotos]

Yeah but out of the 6760 graduates you need to factor in that maybe only 10% of them are any good.

From what I recall of the last Skillset meeting I attended, the UK actually produces around 11,000 graduates with an animation related degree annually. Sadly, although it's a nice idea to consider that 10% of those students are employable the truth is that unless the student has attended one of a small handful of degrees in the UK where the staff actually know their subject to a professional level, that percentage figure should be much, much lower - I doubt there are more than 250 employable graduates a year leaving UK animation courses, I know a hefty chunk of them myself! There are a few universities where the percentage of students gaining employment is much much higher than 10%, and those universities' students tend to get the entry level positions (assuming these haven't been filled by French or German graduates :D) so the majority of animation degrees in this country are not really worth attending. Or alternatively, the majority of the animation degrees in the UK are not industry facing - there is a lot of fine art animation made in the UK, some of which can be quite beautiful and conceptually interesting, but not commercially useful. That doesn't mean that it isn't good, it just isn't what the animation industry wants. Remember a degree is not just about gaining employment, it's about educating yourself and changing yourself and broadening your knowledge and ability to look at what you want from life. But having said all this if you want to get a job you need to be very good, very motivated and go to the right course (being intelligent is also a major bonus).

[notsosure]

sad figures moidphotos, less than 2.5% (pathetic). I can see why soooooo many people are up in arms about these courses.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/live_debate/article7042540.ece

And

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8556231.stm

I hope that
"They should also be given better information by universities about the relative value of their degree courses and the employment outcomes of their graduates.The association is also in favour of more work experience for students before and during university"

Anyway I have a job (nothing to do with CGI) minimum wage but hell I like it very much.

However only one person answered my question. I wonder what moidphotos (as he is a lecturer) tells his final year students?

[notsosure]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/03/does_the_uk_need_less_graduate.html

This was the article that lead me to post my question.
I was sooooooo surprised of how many people replied to it.
Well thats democracy for ya.

[mr Bob]

Surely its your own fault if you accept to do a degree at a poor university. Also I would state that other subjects do suffer from the same problem.

b

[moidphotos]

I tell them that the talented ones who work hard will get jobs. Which is true. My students benefit from studying on degrees that are amongst the best in the UK for animation, and are taught by very knowledgeable, industry experienced lecturers who have very high standards, so we have high employment rates.

[KillahPriest]

My professor (chair of the department) told our senior class the other week that we get so many freshmen because of the schools advertising. In his words, "they claim 90% of students have jobs after graduating, but what they don't tell you is that they mean at starbucks or mcdonalds". Everyone laughed but it was pretty awkward.

[Kanga]

I tell my students that folios are important and that they have to look on the web to see what standards are. I also tell them that what I am teaching them is an introduction and that they will have to work hard in their own time. We have a pretty good intern program so most of the kids get bought to earth pretty quickly. Some of them have to arrange their own placing, so they have an idea of how hard the job market is. They also have few illusions about their qualifications landing them a position.

[stooch]

hahaha. so funny. personally i went trough scad and i regret it. huge waste of money.

i basically ltaught myself in college, did my own tutes, went online and found my own help and basically worked from home. I should have just stayed home. The only upside are the good friends I made.

dont expect anything when graduating. a college cant polish a turd.

basically.

its what you put into it (into anything) that matters. everything else is shlock.

[Bullit]

It is the typical problem of pretending and overall ignorance about economics. Many non graduating skilled jobs are needed but overall society narcissism tries to ignore they exist and even recognize them as necessary. If everyone went to Oxford/Cambridge the majority of students would end in making other jobs that didn't needed a degree like that. Economy drives.

Where there are lack of people is in engineering jobs because many run away from Math and can't mak things that can break work with reliably.

[Bathtub]

I was a senior lecturer on a 3D Comp Animation BA/BSC course. I told my students what leigh said. This got me in to a lot of trouble with my boss (the head of school) and my students thought I was being very negative. I explained that the portfolio was more important than the degree; I specifically told them that if your folio is very good then you are bound to get a good chance of a job and definitely a degree. Well this did not go down to well with both students and management. The management was completely off mark, they knew nothing about animation, cgi, vfx etc....They wrote the bleeding course. In their original course document that got the funding they stated that compositing tools are used for previewing VR. I never read such bull in my life. There are too many Unis that get the funding for these crap courses which are instigated by ignorant academic buffoons who are called “experts”. These guys are used as a front to create courses using existing models (other course documents) so to impress their boss (The head of school and Principle), so they can get even more funding.

British degrees are about funding, getting dosh from the British government.

Unis want bums on seats, however they cannot sustain this, so they take on any Tom, Dick and Harry who can’t do the stuff yet the Unis have to pass them (give em a 2:2 or a 3rd) so they can still get the funding. The amount of times I had my arms twisted around my back in the examination board to pass stupid pathetic students who knew nothing after 3-4 years of study would amaze you all (these guys could not even do a walk cycle after4 f**kin years) and still got a degree. So I left, I could not work in such a place. Also there was this saying among the lectures as taking on any student was common on all courses “You can’t mould sh*t”

[DanielWray]

I was a senior lecturer on a 3D Comp Animation BA/BSC course. I told my students what leigh said. This got me in to a lot of trouble with my boss (the head of school) and my students thought I was being very negative. I explained that the portfolio was more important than the degree; I specifically told them that if your folio is very good then you are bound to get a good chance of a job and definitely a degree. Well this did not go down to well with both students and management. The management was completely off mark, they knew nothing about animation, cgi, vfx etc....They wrote the bleeding course. In their original course document that got the funding they stated that compositing tools are used for previewing VR. I never read such bull in my life. There are too many Unis that get the funding for these crap courses which are instigated by ignorant academic buffoons who are called “experts”. These guys are used as a front to create courses using existing models (other course documents) so to impress their boss (The head of school and Principle), so they can get even more funding.

British degrees are about funding, getting dosh from the British government.

Unis want bums on seats, however they cannot sustain this, so they take on any Tom, Dick and Harry who can’t do the stuff yet the Unis have to pass them (give em a 2:2 or a 3rd) so they can still get the funding. The amount of times I had my arms twisted around my back in the examination board to pass stupid pathetic students who knew nothing after 3-4 years of study would amaze you all (these guys could not even do a walk cycle after4 f**kin years) and still got a degree. So I left, I could not work in such a place. Also there was this saying among the lectures as taking on any student was common on all courses “You can’t mould sh*t”

I can understand this.

I'm not a lecture, I'm just a student at University. I'm changing courses as the course I'm on.. well let's just say it doesn't exactly know what it's trying to teach.

I'm not some amazingly talented professional, I've worked in as studio prior to coming to university and I've spent a long time educating myself in my own time.

I had thought that coming to university would really open up my talents, with the help of other talented students and lecturers but what I've found is a group of people who either have no real interest in the subject (except a few select people, who I've offered to help out with learning animation) or have never touched any sort of animation material (I'm on a computer animate course :rolleyes ) in their life. This goes for the lecturers as well, they seem to care more about the ethical and academic side of computer animation, well I say computer animation so far in the first year we have covered subjects which don't relate or for that fact help out a person in getting a job as an animator, or indeed in any production house.

Some of the lecturers are very good at what they teach though, so I can't fault them for that. I have learnt quite a lot, but unfortunately none of what I've learnt relates to the subject I'm studying.

Anyway, another rant this is turning out to be. But again I agree with your post, I do get the feeling that university standards are slipping by a huge mark, it isn't a bad thing letting more students in as every one should be given a chance and sometimes the people who don't do well academically, for example getting enough UCAS points, can really excel at subjects and become brilliant at what they do. But on the other hand you have universities who set the pass rate at 40% and pretty much only fail those who don't hand in any work.

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