Trouble at Infinity Ward

[DuttyFoot]

wow, this does not sound like good news.

[DaveKW]

May be related to this:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/02/infinity-ward-modern-warfare-2-royalties-analysis/

"Infinity Ward has yet to be paid a single dime in royalties for Modern Warfare 2."

[DuttyFoot]

"Infinity Ward has yet to be paid a single dime in royalties for Modern Warfare 2."

with all that they made, thats really sad

[spurcell]

with all that they made, thats really sad

Did you read the article? Im not defending Activision, but it's likely a little early to be concerned about royalties. The game has been out barely 90 days.

[Per-Anders]

Did you read the article? Im not defending Activision, but it's likely a little early to be concerned about royalties. The game has been out barely 90 days.
Firstly just because legally they're allowed to hold funds for 90 days does not make that acceptable or good business practice, it's the very limit legally, not the bare minimum as certain employers seem to delude themselves into thinking. It's an asshole thing to do, especially with the amount of money involved, which leads on to-

Secondly the game made over $1bn in revenue and was released November 10th 2009, it is now March the 2nd 2010 which makes for at my estimation 112 days. I too would be very seriously concerned about the lack of payment at that point if someone owed me a chunk out of a billion and I maybe had other dependents on this royalty.

It's late rather than early to amicably discuss royalties which should have been done within at most 30 days of release but ideally much sooner, now it's much too late for that, now is the time of lawyers, well done to Activision for their brilliant leadership on that.

Apart from that though it's true no-one seems to know what's really happening on this it's not entirely fair to comment without knowing the real deal, whether Activision have legitimate complaints against the IW management and they did something terrible and deserve to be fired, or whether it's the other way around and Activision screwing people over (given the track record what everyone assumes), or something else entirely is going on. I wonder what's happening at IW itself right now, this must be a crushing blow as it looks like Activision want to take the franchise away from them entirely now.

[j00st81]

this might shed some light on the subject:

http://kotaku.com/5484026/activisions-new-plans-for-call-of-duty-include-new-developer-new-genres

Activision ... plans to expand the Call of Duty brand "with the same focus seen in its Blizzard Entertainment business unit" placing a focus on "high-margin digital online content and further the brand as the leading action entertainment franchise in new geographies, new genres and with new digital business models."

Activision Publishing also announced that the company is "in discussions with a select number of partners to bring the franchise to Asia, one of the fastest growing regions for online multiplayer games in the world."

seems like Jason and Vince didn't like the way Activision was directing the Call of Duty franchise

[DuttyFoot]

Did you read the article? Im not defending Activision, but it's likely a little early to be concerned about royalties. The game has been out barely 90 days.

actually no, i was responding based on what snakeye said. i could'nt read it at the time, i was at work.

[eikonoklastes]

May be related to this:
"Infinity Ward has yet to be paid a single dime in royalties for Modern Warfare 2."Why would you quote so badly out of context? This is the actual quote:

BingeGamer reports that Infinity Ward "has yet to be paid a single dime in royalties for Modern Warfare 2."

Also very relevant is this:

"IW sold itself to Activision back in 2004, Activision owns the [Call of Duty] IP, and the guys leaving were employees under some kind of contract. Activision appears to believe that they have breached this contract, and may or may not be justified in withholding bonuses."

What is this, a witch hunt?

[simonenastasi]

Witch hunt?
Have you read here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=853631&highlight=activision)? Nice way to behave with your employees... "remove the fun from making games", wow.
Infinity Ward sold to Activision and that's what they get back from it. From what I've read, I wouldn't have nothing to deal with Activision, they sure look evil. Too bad for IW, just read an article about them in Wired (Italian edition) and they looked very cool. Too bad.

[Kabab]

Sounds like to me these guys are entitled to get a hefty and well deserved bonus and are probably thinking of starting their own thing and doing it their way without any Activision bullshit to deal with...

Activision are probably trying to road block this to avoid loosing lots of future sales...

This is my 2 cents worth of speculation :P

[unitzer07]

if im not mistaken that's how IW and COD were born in the first place.

a bunch of former medal of honor guys from ea formed IW and made COD.

Am i wrong?

[spindraft]

if im not mistaken that's how IW and COD were born in the first place.

a bunch of former medal of honor guys from ea formed IW and made COD.

Am i wrong?

I believe you're correct. Thus the cycle continues.

[evolucian]

if im not mistaken that's how IW and COD were born in the first place.

a bunch of former medal of honor guys from ea formed IW and made COD.

Am i wrong?

they split from a place called 2015 i believe and formed IW.

now acti fired those same guys. Im sure there's money in the middle (and probably lots of it, since Mw2 pulled in 1 bil $).

It would be interesting to see if the talent will actually stay at IW now or split again to form another company and another franchise.

There's a report that states most of Acti's income is based on the guitar hero franchise, World of Warcraft and of course Call of Duty.

All of their new attempts at developing new IPs have bombed (tony hawk ride, dj hero?!) and with this news on top, it'll be interesting to follow.

[705]

i also notice that they announce two new cod games one by sledgehamer in 2011 and tryarch 2010. i did not notice any iw in the announcement though.

[evolucian]

i also notice that they announce two new cod games one by sledgehamer in 2011 and tryarch 2010. i did not notice any iw in the announcement though.

thats another thing...how many first person shooters does one really need of the SAME game. Its not like you get roster updates on sports games from EA (at the very least).

that and with Ea themselves attacking Acti's domination of FPS games through a really good "battlefield" game now, ouch.

i think EPIC had the right idea with their Unreal Tournament series. One game every 3 yr cycle, release 1 major map AND game pack per year (or so) for free (EA and activision are alergic to the word "free"). Unfortunately they havent marketed it as well as other IPs have been that ultimately took over the market from stuff like quake arena and counterstrike.

[DuttyFoot]

that and with Ea themselves attacking Acti's domination of FPS games through a really good "battlefield" game now, ouch.

yes BFBC2 rocks. i got the pc (even though i have a 360) version and i am loving the firefight.

[705]

yes BFBC2 rocks. i got the pc (even though i have a 360) version and i am loving the firefight.

w8 what? isnt it released on friday? i already preordered hasnt got the call :|

[DuttyFoot]

w8 what? isnt it released on friday? i already preordered hasnt got the call :|

it came out on the 2nd of march. Gametrailers had a one hour play through session on monday night, and it was intense. i picked my copy up at best buy last night and got the limited edition which doesn't really come with much at all, but it was still cheaper than getting it for my 360. the pc version is $49. this game is beautiful in every way and most of all you can destroy buildings :) no hiding spot is safe.

[phexitol]

(EA ... are alergic to the word "free").

Not completely. They did release quite a bit of free updates (new vehicles, including an entirely new vehicle type - bikes) for Burnout: Paradise. I, however, am allergic to ... that *other* game publisher you mentioned.

[spindraft]

Kind of the direction everything seemed to be hinting anyway.

Suing for unpaid royalties. (http://kotaku.com/5485295/infinity-ward-founders-suing-activision-over-unpaid-royalties?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+kotaku/full+%28Kotaku%29)

[705]

as far as i notice, ea since moore leadership has changed a lot. they do something different and release something 'new' and aggressively create new franchises. check out brutal legend or dead space. despite of the sales number, those two is kinda 'new' to game industry. ok it might be not that innovative, but to have something other than spacemarineshooterracingzombigfigthing formula is pretty bold.

activ on the other hand, keep releasing sequels.

imo :)

[Brettzies]

a check out brutal legend or dead space. despite of the sales number, those two is kinda 'new' to game industry. ok it might be not that innovative, but to have something other than .
Brutal Legend is awesome, but I wouldn't give EA too much credit for that, just as I'd give Activision pretty much zero credit for CoD and MW1+2. When places like EA, UBI, Activision, allow proven devs to make things like Brutal Legend and MW you end up with quality titles...when they(big studios) start thinking they are the reason MW is sooo good, you end up with threads like this one. Power ups to the people I say! (especially the ones who acutally make stuff).

[DuttyFoot]

the guys from IW are now suing Activision


"Activision has refused to honor the terms of its agreements and is intentionally flouting the fundamental public policy of this state [California] that employers must pay their employees what they have rightfully earned," attorney Robert Schwartz said in a statement. "Instead of thanking, lauding, or just plain paying Jason and Vince for giving Activision the most successful entertainment product ever offered to the public, last month Activision hired lawyers to conduct a pretextual 'investigation' into unstated and unsubstantiated charges of 'insubordination' and 'breach of fiduciary duty,' which then became the grounds for their termination on Monday, March 1."

West went on to note that he and Zampella were "shocked" after being informed that they had been terminated. "We poured our heart and soul into that company, building not only a world class development studio, but assembling a team we've been proud to work with for nearly a decade," he said. "We think the work we've done speaks for itself." Zampella continued: "After all we have given to Activision, we shouldn't have to sue to get paid."

Claims in the suit include those for breach of contract, breach of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing, wrongful termination in violation of public policy, and declaratory relief. Activision had not responded to a request for comment as of press time.

Released in 2009 to critical acclaim (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239772.html), Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 brought in $550 million for Activision within its first week (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6240625.html) of availability and $1 billion within two months (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6246316.html). According to Zampella and West's suit, the Call of Duty franchise has brought in $3 billion since 2003--the same year Activision acquired Infinity Ward (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6077624.html).

Following the Infinity Ward executives' dismissal, Activision announced a massive expansion to the Call of Duty franchise (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6252689.html). Beyond the previously indicated Treyarch-developed Call of Duty title due later this year, Activision also plans to release an action adventure spin-off developed by Sledgehammer Games (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6240541.html) and an Asia-targeted massively multiplayer online installment, neither of which have a confirmed release date. In 2011, Activision plans to release yet one more Call of Duty-branded game, which is in development at an unnamed studio.




http://www.gamespot.com/news/6252851.html

[fezz]

activ on the other hand, keep releasing sequels.

imo :)

I can't help but think that Activision is going to run the Call of Duty franchise into the ground with excessive sequels and spinoffs :argh:

[705]

Brutal Legend is awesome, but I wouldn't give EA too much credit for that, just as I'd give Activision pretty much zero credit for CoD and MW1+2. When places like EA, UBI, Activision, allow proven devs to make things like Brutal Legend and MW you end up with quality titles...when they(big studios) start thinking they are the reason MW is sooo good, you end up with threads like this one. Power ups to the people I say! (especially the ones who acutally make stuff).

im totally agree. but it sometimes publisher decision if a franchise should be launched or not. i think its partly EA decision to go for Brutal Legend. the idea probably the devs, but how far publisher want to go for that idea, i think its really depends on the publisher.

anw, check this out:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=224900

[RobertoOrtiz]

Guys you are going to love this..
Court briefs:

http://kotaku.com/5485703/ousted-infinity-ward-founders-lawsuit-against-activision-the-court-documents/gallery/

[DuttyFoot]

I'm reading the court brief and what i am reading is very unsettling. Is Activision really such a cold hearted company. Other than the firings over the guitar hero franchise would they really stoop this low.

This is from page
2 #2 and 3 line 16-28.

Just weeks before Messers, West and Zampella were to recieve the royalties for their hard work on Modern Warfare 2, Activision fired them in the hope that by doing so, it could avoid paying them what they had rightfully earned, and to seize control of Infinity Ward Studio, to which Activision had previously granted creative control to all Modern Warfare branded games and had, apparently,decided it no longer wanted to live with.

Instead of thanking,lauding,or just plain paying Messers. West and Zampella for giving Activision the most successful entertainment product ever offered to the public, last month Activision hired lawyers to conduct a pretextual investigation into unstated and unsubstantiated charges of insubordination and breach of fiduciary duty. It then summoned Mr. West and Mr. Zampella to a sham meeting two days ago at Activision's headquaters in Santa Monica, California during which they were fired on the basis of false and trivial charges, and then quickly escorted out the back door.


10 #32 line 18.

West and Zampella were interrogated for over six hours in a windowless conference room; Activision investigators brought other infinity ward employees to tears in their questioning and accusations and threatened West and Zampella with insubordination if they attempted to console them; Activision's outside counsel demanded that west and Zampella surrender their personal computers, phones, and communication devices to Activision for review by Activision's outside counsel and, when West and Zampella asserted their legally protected privacy rights, Activision's counsel said that doing so constituted further acts insubordination.

[nero5150]

heh. I don't know much about this situation but... The culture of corruption, self-centered, ego-driven and just plain evil disregard for our felow man continues to spread and permeate in major corporations and society. It's not a coincidence that the spread of this darkness is coinciding with the current major world-wide economic collapse. The most powerful men on earth are central bankers/financiers and they are pure evil. The collapse was designed and they are sucking the wealth out of the working class with their mafioso engineered bail-out swindles. The leaders of humanity are 100% bona-fide grade A scum. It's no surprise that Activision has taken their lead.

[j00st81]

un-effing believable, hope Activision gets destroyed in court

any word what the accusations against West and Zampella where?

[edit] response from Activision:

Activision is disappointed that Mr. Zampella and Mr. West have chosen to file a lawsuit, and believes their claims are meritless," an Activision spokesperson said in a statement.

full article: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1074380p1.html

there you have it, they are 'dissapointed' ... :/

before I totally jump on the 'Activision is evil bandwagon', I'd still like to know what the claims where against the 2

[Laa-Yosh]

It's been said that they were shopping their next project around for other publishers.
Kinda hard to judge the complete situation without knowing all the details in the contracts.

On the one hand, Activision might be justified in getting angry - the COD games were built from money that they have invested in IW. But they did make that money back several times by now, and the devs are not their slaves - if contracts were to expire in October, as rumor has it, then IW had every right to look around the market to see what kind of deals they can get.
Particularly with the other issue, that Activision was interested in milking the franchise as much as possible, with no care about the mid term consequences (which, as indicated by Guitar Hero, could be fatal).

[Apoclypse]

Well the most likely outcome will be a settlement with the devs either taking a cut in royalties in-order to get out of the non-compete or the devs getting more money with a time limited non-compete barring them from going to another publisher or starting another company for a few months.

Activision to took the offensive because they knew that IW was looking for other publishers and they wanted to keep milking the cow. By forcing this into a court and forcing a settlement down the lien they get what they want either way. They either get to keep more of the CoD pie or they get a developer who has a history of making hits to cool their heels for a while. Very douchey move on their part.

[spindraft]

The court filing:

linky (http://pc.ign.com/dor/articles/1074657/west-and-zampella-vs-activision-court-document/images/jason-west-20100304093412010.html)

Looks pretty solid to me, given that all the referenced contracts are as described.

Shitty employers are shitty. Best of luck to these guys, looks like 'moving on' was over due anyway.

[spurcell]

I hope Activision goes down in flames for this.

figuratively speaking of course... :D

[Fluckrat]

The court filing:

linky (http://pc.ign.com/dor/articles/1074657/west-and-zampella-vs-activision-court-document/images/jason-west-20100304093412010.html)

Looks pretty solid to me, given that all the referenced contracts are as described.

Shitty employers are shitty. Best of luck to these guys, looks like 'moving on' was over due anyway.

Thanks, I just read it all. That is some truly shocking behaviour! The whole interrogation saga alone is disgusting beyond words!

[spindraft]

I hope Activision goes down in flames for this.

figuratively speaking of course... :D

Th...th....th....they took my swingline!

[DuttyFoot]

Thanks, I just read it all. That is some truly shocking behaviour! The whole interrogation saga alone is disgusting beyond words!

trust me, i couldn't believe it when i read that part of the brief.

[evolucian]

they sound like a rogue dictator run company.

im amazed some people actually broke down and cried. i guess everyone deals differently with pressure. All it takes is for you to get up and leave to end it. If body contact is made, the other person would most likely be hospitalized and the company would face a major lawsuit for assault, harassment and unlawful imprisonment amongst other things.

Some people need to be a bit more educated as to what they may and may not/should not do when under pressure from employers or corporations. Unfortunately, its up to the individual to educate themselves, and it usually doesnt happen.

Seems like these suits took call of duty out of the game and into* real life.

[scrimski]

Maybe the Activision guys did their payments but IW was just 'Disconnected from Steam' or they 'Couldn't connect to host' , maybe wrong NAT settings.
Things like that happen.

[evolucian]

here's a brief update on kotaku:


http://kotaku.com/5491675/rumor-why-call-of-duty-developers-are-sticking-around

apparently employees there get payed mostly with royalties (due to average or below average industry salaries) and Activision has been witholding their payments, refusing to pay out thus far (and are overdue on the pay date if the other court documents are true).

thats the jist of it anyways.

[RobertoOrtiz]

they sound like a rogue dictator run company.

im amazed some people actually broke down and cried. i guess everyone deals differently with pressure. All it takes is for you to get up and leave to end it. If body contact is made, the other person would most likely be hospitalized and the company would face a major lawsuit for assault, harassment and unlawful imprisonment amongst other things.

.

Oh the stories I could tell you.
I am sorry if I am being a bit long winded.

In another life I had a boss that used the building security guards as her personal guard.
I kid you not.

She would call employees to a conference room, and then proceeded to hammer them with accusations while a guard waited outside.


IF you broke down in any way and/or cried, she would call the guards in and had escorted out the premises, under the excuse that you were a threat to your fellow co workers.
I saw at least three people, who were veteran employees, given this treatment.


In three years she drove to the ground a top performing development office.

But Karma is a b@#@

The irony is that she got taken down when she moved up to a another company.
When her background was investigated in more detail red flags started coming up.
Aparently she had apparently faked all her educational credentials.
ALL of them.

I guess that my point is that this kind of crap is VERY common.

[Pixelmaestro]

If you are in a situation with an employer, and they start asking question that make you uncomfortable.

Do not sign anything?

Assume everything you say can be used in a court of law.

Ask for the questions to be paper based so you can respond in a timely manner. (Delay) If they refuse to give you a document, (get a paper trail). Ask for a copy, if you want to be a pain in the ass, ask to have the signature of the manager (supervisor), notarized.

This includes exit interviews, treat your self as a business, that is what they are doing. Do not give them ammo for their gun.

They can not withhold payment for a release. They will sweeten the deal, like give a month of health benefits for a signed document.

[evolucian]

Oh the stories I could tell you.
I am sorry if I am being a bit long winded.

In another life I had a boss that used the building security guards as her personal guard.
I kid you not.

She would call employees to a conference room, and then proceeded to hammer them with accusations while a guard waited outside.


IF you broke down in any way and/or cried, she would call the guards in and had escorted out the premises, under the excuse that you were a threat to your fellow co workers.
I saw at least three people, who were veteran employees, given this treatment.


In three years she drove to the ground a top performing development office.

But Karma is a b@#@

The irony is that she got taken down when she moved up to a another company.
When her background was investigated in more detail red flags started coming up.
Aparently she had apparently faked all her educational credentials.
ALL of them.

I guess that my point is that this kind of crap is VERY common.




lol wow...yea that trumps i think most people's experiences. but the issue there is higher management not doing their homework and thus letting an imbecil run the company into the ground.

what is it they say ignorance is bliss? apparently not..:shrug:

[RobertoOrtiz]

Quote:
As revealed by the pair's Linkedin profiles,Todd Alderman, a Lead Designer and
one of the key personnel involved in Modern Warfare's multiplayer (not to mention Modern Warfare 2's story (http://kotaku.com/5448400/and-the-nominees-for-best-video-game-writing-are)), left the company last week, as did Francesco Gigliotti, Infinity Ward's lead software engineer. Both were long-serving members of the studio, Alderman having been with Infinity Ward for eight years, Gigliotti for seven.

http://kotaku.com/5510262/modern-warfare-developer-loses-two-more-key-players

[hanskloss]

Not good at all...

[evolucian]

its not good, its great.

who wants to work for a company that doesnt respect signed contracts that state they will pay you and then make up internal policy investigations in order to fire you so they dont have to pay up.

[BigPixolin]

I have lost all hope for Call of duty in the future. Sorry Treyarch doesn't even count to me.

[JoshBowman]

There was a sequel to Call of Duty:Modern Warfare?

[Ani-MaX]

There was a sequel to Call of Duty:Modern Warfare?

Where have you been the last 3 years?
Modern Warfare 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2)

[evolucian]

I have lost all hope for Call of duty in the future. Sorry Treyarch doesn't even count to me.

call of duty in the present isnt much of a new game either.

"lets make a 4 hour single player with a lot of slow motion and an unrealistically high number of bad guys crammed in a map, and pump out 8 maps for multiplayer, ship it".

knowing activision tactics they'll brand the 3rd version the same, hire some people for 8 new maps and call it a new game. marketing is more important...:banghead:

[BoostAbuse]

Thanks for the link.

I did enjoy the first one, but i can't imagine the second would have had the same amount of success which is probably why i didn't here about it.

Pretty sure MW2 was the largest grossing game wasn't it? It raked in ridiculous amounts of cash and was the biggest release in a long time.

Sucks to hear the team splintering but as evolucian said, people need to do what's best for them and in this situation I think we'll see more people leaving IW. With any luck the core team will kick start a new startup :)

[JoshBowman]

Where have you been the last 3 years?
Modern Warfare 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2)

Thanks for the link.

I did enjoy the first one, but i can't imagine the second would have had the same amount of success which is probably why i didn't here about it.

[705]

Thanks for the link.

I did enjoy the first one, but i can't imagine the second would have had the same amount of success which is probably why i didn't here about it.

dude... the second one has bigger amount of success than the first one, at least in the first week...

seriously.. where have you been? :P

back to topic: im really confused what happened with activision in iw. i mean, what is the trigger for all of this. activision would be so stupid to let this kind of things happened. its bad for the franchise.

[JoshBowman]

Haha

Okay so i was joking, I truly hated the second one, the bits of it i played felt like i was just in one long ADD action movie dreamed up by a teenager who just wanted to shoot stuff because it was cool and didn't care about any sort of emotional or character driven plot.

I would just rather think there was never a sequel and just enjoy the first Modern Warfare as a stand-alone without a sequel.

After all the crap Activision pulled on the IW employees and directors I wouldn't be surprised if we see a few more march out in disgust.

[evolucian]

back to topic: im really confused what happened with activision in iw. i mean, what is the trigger for all of this. activision would be so stupid to let this kind of things happened. its bad for the franchise.

go to kotaku.com and do a search for "activision" and you'll find out.:)

[BigPixolin]

Haha

Okay so i was joking, I truly hated the second one, the bits of it i played felt like i was just in one long ADD action movie dreamed up by a teenager who just wanted to shoot stuff because it was cool and didn't care about any sort of emotional or character driven plot.

I would just rather think there was never a sequel and just enjoy the first Modern Warfare as a stand-alone without a sequel.

Wait a second, your telling me Call of Duty has a single player mode and a story?
Honestly I never played more than 10 minutes of single player on either Modern Warfare.
Those games are not about single player, and that is the wrong thing to focus on with those games.

[evolucian]

Wait a second, your telling me Call of Duty has a single player mode and a story?
Honestly I never played more than 10 minutes of single player on either Modern Warfare.
Those games are not about single player, and that is the wrong thing to focus on with those games.

call of duty has been a single player focused game from the first title on out. im assuming you havent played the entire series?

modern warfare was the firs to shift into a half-multiplayer split game with the single player game still being very very good.

the world at war came and well..meh

and modern warfare 2 came around and decided to just cut single player out almost entirely but still NOT provide extra content for multiplayer. basically cutting costs with no extra focus on content on the multi side of the game.

[ThE_JacO]

Santa Monica lost a key designer and developer a third of the way through god of war III. After the passage of responsibilities guess what, the game got better and ended up a lot more fresh than it was, and is probably the best of the trilogy.
Everybody is unique but nobody is irreplaceable :)
People, even key people, move on from established studios all the time for grudges or to pursue better or different. Not sure why this is such a big deal.

[SheepFactory]

I am not sure how this is news? If we post a news everytime some senior guy leaves a studio we will need a new forum for it.

[ambient-whisper]

Santa Monica lost a key designer and developer a third of the way through god of war III. After the passage of responsibilities guess what, the game got better and ended up a lot more fresh than it was, and is probably the best of the trilogy.
Everybody is unique but nobody is irreplaceable :)
People, even key people, move on from established studios all the time for grudges or to pursue better or different. Not sure why this is such a big deal.

at the same time part 3 was also missing something as well. there were aspects that made part 2 better. pacing was one of them. while part 2 had the first level where you fight off that huge giant, and then right after you go on Pegasus, and then you fall down to your near death to find yourself climbing a huge structure.. the pacing slowed down gradually, and picked up steadily. in part 3 it felt sporadic at best. you had the high moments with un-interesting moments and the flow to the game just wasn't the same. its like the difference between uncharted 1 and 2. both games were very good, but while part two had perfect pacing that made you not want to let go of the controller, part 1 you could easily get away for a day or two when a chapter finished. weapon wise gow3 was also way sub par. the weapons worked slightly different but i was hoping for them to have a much more distinct difference as they leveled up so that they could serve different ways of gameplay. the differences were subtle at best. besides the gauntlets, all other weapons were boring.

i still loved the game, but unlike part 2 that had me not wanting to drop the controller, and hyped me up for part 3...... well, in a way part 3 left me with a feeling of indifference.

there were other things that i felt was bad about gow 3, like the way they handle the quicktime sequences and dying felt very old and could have used an update to make some of the fights more epic and not a conditional win lose scenario all the time.

so do we know for sure that losing a key developer is a good thing? people are replaceable in terms of getting something complete and on time, but it doesnt mean that some aspects will suffer. after all, part 3 is better in areas because they developed on their past technologies and gameplay devices, but at the same time because the hardware allowed them to push that much further. i doubt it got better because one key designer was holding them back ( maybe it was the case, but i don't think its soo black and white. )

[SheepFactory]

at the same time part 3 was also missing something as well. there were aspects that made part 2 better. pacing was one of them. while part 2 had the first level where you fight off that huge giant, and then right after you go on Pegasus, and then you fall down to your near death to find yourself climbing a huge structure.. the pacing slowed down gradually, and picked up steadily. in part 3 it felt sporadic at best. you had the high moments with un-interesting moments and the flow to the game just wasn't the same. its like the difference between uncharted 1 and 2. both games were very good, but while part two had perfect pacing that made you not want to let go of the controller, part 1 you could easily get away for a day or two when a chapter finished. weapon wise gow3 was also way sub par. the weapons worked slightly different but i was hoping for them to have a much more distinct difference as they leveled up so that they could serve different ways of gameplay. the differences were subtle at best. besides the gauntlets, all other weapons were boring.

i still loved the game, but unlike part 2 that had me not wanting to drop the controller, and hyped me up for part 3...... well, in a way part 3 left me with a feeling of indifference.

there were other things that i felt was bad about gow 3, like the way they handle the quicktime sequences and dying felt very old and could have used an update to make some of the fights more epic and not a conditional win lose scenario all the time.

so do we know for sure that losing a key developer is a good thing? people are replaceable in terms of getting something complete and on time, but it doesnt mean that some aspects will suffer. after all, part 3 is better in areas because they developed on their past technologies and gameplay devices, but at the same time because the hardware allowed them to push that much further. i doubt it got better because one key designer was holding them back ( maybe it was the case, but i don't think its soo black and white. )


Wow I dont think I can disagree more with everything you said. gow3 is a superior experience to part 1 & 2. I have finished both a day before I picked up gow3 so its definitely fresh on my mind.


Anyway this is not the gow3 thread.

[ThE_JacO]

so do we know for sure that losing a key developer is a good thing? people are replaceable in terms of getting something complete and on time, but it doesnt mean that some aspects will suffer. after all, part 3 is better in areas because they developed on their past technologies and gameplay devices, but at the same time because the hardware allowed them to push that much further. i doubt it got better because one key designer was holding them back ( maybe it was the case, but i don't think its soo black and white. )
I'm not saying losing a key player is always a good thing (no black and white here), nor I'm saying the old one was holding them back (there's no knowing that without the ability to look into alternate universe and a firm belief in some quantum physics theories :) ).
I'm saying that losing key staff happens to all studios all the time, and it's not the end of the world. Definitely not news worthy unless you're talking of legendary or production affecting moves on original research or products.

Lasseter or Catmull leaving Pixar, Sanders going to DW... those might be news worthy.
Some random dude leaving an FPS dev team doesn't exactly strike me as news worthy, which is kind of the topic at hand, more so than GOWIII, which was just an example :)

[ambient-whisper]

Lasseter or Catmull leaving Pixar, Sanders going to DW... those might be news worthy.
Some random dude leaving an FPS dev team doesn't exactly strike me as news worthy, which is kind of the topic at hand, more so than GOWIII, which was just an example :)

yeah i got that, and i agree totally that news of a person leaving a studio isn't news worthy.

today at 11, an intern decides to leave iw, for bioware.


Wow I dont think I can disagree more with everything you said. gow3 is a superior experience to part 1 & 2. I have finished both a day before I picked up gow3 so its definitely fresh on my mind.

disagree all you want man. a lot of the weapons were boring, the pacing could have used some work, and some stuff could have felt more useful ( speed boots anyone? ), and some fights ( even khronos ) could have been slightly better if the quicktime events were handled slightly differently, or dished out consequences to make the fight more colossal.. instead of only immediate death. but just because i criticize it doesnt mean i dont like it. quite the opposite.. however if i see something lacking im not going to be all rosy about it and pretend it was perfect when it clearly wasn't.

anyway its not a gow thread, but i wasnt going to respond to someones comment here... within the gow thread.

i'm done :)

cheers :)

[RobertoOrtiz]

Threads merged.

-R

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.