workstation / render farm Need advice

[biliousfrog]

Doesn't your computer tech certificate cover google searches?

http://lmgtfy.com/

Consider the power requirements, OS costs, render licences, running costs etc. The quad-core based systems seem like a reasonable deal but older systems are generally not worth the additional expense of running them....which is why they're cheap.

[Howlin]

I have searched google for the past 4 days . I have searched many sites looking at tons of scores . The problem is since these setup are exotic the only people who would be using them are those in the cg field . In short a 3dmark score is not going to help me here. The closest i have come to a usable benchmark is cinebench scores . Because cinebech scores based on actual rendering on both a single and multicore configuration . Being that this limits what is actually available on the net finding such information is not easy. So what would my next step be? I am sure that would be asking people who would have an idea . Where would i find these people ? That would be here in this forum . How do i know this? Because i searched the forum . I have seen a few people with similar questions as well as people with setups something similar to these . However the exact questions i have asked were not so i require more information . In short i do have common sense .

[olson]

The quad socket systems with Opteron 8347 processors and 8-16 GB of memory would make pretty good render nodes for $800, though the price sounds too good to be true if you ask me. I would not bother with the older Opteron 244 systems as they are pretty power hungry and not very fast by today's standards. Compared to a Core i7 920, I would guess it would be about on par with the Opteron 2353 systems and the Opteron 8347 systems would be significantly faster than the Core i7 920 but would use more power too. Note that's for rendering which is multithreaded, for single threaded tasks the Core i7 920 would be faster since its higher clock speed and newer architecture. Cheers!

[Howlin]

The prices are so low because i also buy and sell/ repair computers. So i have some of the parts already . Such as the quad socket motherboard and dual socket motherboard . So i would not have to buy everything. The other things i would require would be a case , cpu's and ram . Since amd released the hexa core a few months back i can get quadcore chips extremely cheap . The sun servers were offered to me as surplus .

[Jettatore]

http://techgage.com/article/intel_core_i7_performance_preview/6

(search the above site for "3D Studio" to find more benchmarks catered to rendering)

Some 3D Render benchmarks for a few different CPU's above. Otherwise, I recommend first hand tests. Also, with the prices being as you listed, why not just buy them ALL. If you have a good interface for distributing single and multi-frame renders across your network then just get them all (it's cheap enough compared to the actual render license) and start doing benchmark tests in different configurations. The only major concern with this would be your electric bill. In which case, if that is a big issue, what you really need is benchmarks that provide accurate real world power consumption rates, with the goal of striking an acceptable balance for yourself. Again, I would suggest buying a few different things for testing purposes here and getting first hand results.

Keep in mind that you only get a limited amount of render licenses for Maya, you have to pay extra for that stuff. Honestly that is going to end up being the most expensive part of the whole equation, aside from your electricity bill.

[imashination]

Those 42 machines arent worth it. The amount of power theyll suck up and the noise and heat theyll kick out will be intolerable unless you stick them in the garage/basement, but even then, youre looking at at least 6 kilowatts to run them as a minimum, plus the switch to run them all decently would likely cost more than the machine did in the first place.

The quad Has a maximum theoretical speed equivalent to a high end 8 core nehalem machine. If you have a very efficient render engine, then maybe go for it, but it it tails off after 4 cores as many do, itll likely sit there 60%> idle.

[olson]

The quad Has a maximum theoretical speed equivalent to a high end 8 core nehalem machine. If you have a very efficient render engine, then maybe go for it, but it it tails off after 4 cores as many do, itll likely sit there 60%> idle.

Good point, but with 16GB of memory concurrent jobs could be run on the machine if they didn't saturate the processors with a single job. Agreed that the older machines are not worth it at all.

[The4thAggie]

If you are going to compare against an i7, you need to compare Cinebench rendering performance.

Depending on your environmrnt, less machines = less heat/noise/power consumption. An i7 kicks anything from last generation out the window. You'd be best to just buy 2-3 i7 machines for $350-400 each, OR go buy a dual Xeon 5500 series server and render that way.

[meleseDESIGN]

Using corrent AMD architecture as Renderfarm is not a wise choice nowadays for many reasons.
Even 4 or 8 way AMD systems are an out of date choice, they are far to old, need a lot space, special cases, energy for allmost no good performance. Opteron´s 8347is a waste of money asame as for 2353.

You should really wait for Intels 6 core processors or built a renderfarm with i7 or Xeon 5500 processors. If you´re smart and have a lot of time you can built yourself some clusters like those guys did it years ago:

http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/cluster
http://www.clustercompute.com

Instaed of the old hardware you do it with i7 or Xeon 5500 processors.
Or you can buy a couple 19-inch racks with Intel Xeon 5500 Rack Server.

[olson]

Dual Xeon 5500 series systems are not in the $250-800 range in the original post or even close to it. If I had the hypothetical $800 to spend on a render node and a quad socket Opteron 8347 was an option, you bet I'd go for it. Would render the socks off a Core i7 system. I know this because I use a quad socket Opteron 8350 system at work. For single threaded tasks its slow compared to the Core i7, but for rendering its still fast even compared to the high end Xeon 5500 series processors. Cheers!

[meleseDESIGN]

Right, Dual Xeon 5500 aren´t in his mentioned price range - not above the E Serie,
You can visit cbscores.com, there is the 16core Opteron system what i have tested with CB 11.5. You can see even with my 8360 SE Opterons there is no bigger difference compared to the X5570 Xeons (i´m still on the fourth place :)). The 8347 Opteron is more in the performance range of an overclocked i7. When i look back what i had spend to get a ready-to-use 4-way AMD System I didn´t pay more for my X5570 Systems.

4 and 8 way AMD system is nonefficient over a long time.
It´s nice if he can get a 4 way system for 800$, but with this low level processors he wont benefit of it over an i7 system. For 800$ you´re still not able to use this system. You need to buy a special case which cost allmost 400+$, and you still need a special PSU with 2x 8pin CPU connector, what will also cost you another 200+$ and you need a Server OS what costs a multiple more as a regular OS. As for my 4 way AMD system it needs allmost twice as much room space as my X5570/i7 system and what really sucks is that it offers much lesser performance as my dual sockets. To upgrade those 4 way boards is also a pain in the ass. Tray to find some good processors for it in an attractive price range, you wont find any nowhere. Even my old 8360 Opt. will still cost you over 800+$ EACH.

I just can say forget about AMD architecture as Renderfarm. .
I don´t even know any commercial Renderfarm who uses AMD processor architecture in their pipeline anymore.

[Srek]

If money is thight i would take a look at a Core i5 750, it offers a lot of bang for the buck. For 800 you should be able to get a decent board, graphics card, DVD, HD and 8 GB as well.
Cheers
Björn

[olson]

According to the original poster, they can get the quad Opteron system for $800. I realize the cases and power supplies are more expensive but apparently that's part of the deal in this situation. If that's still the case, its the best $800 one could possibly spend on rendering power. If the quad Opteron system would cost more than $800 then yes, a Core i7 would probably be the best route. A note about the quad socket operating systems, just use Linux. No need to buy Windows Server to use more than two sockets. Cheers!

[luxwork]

yes, look at the cinebench scores for a reasoanble benchmark. I alos look at passmark, since they have categories for multicpu as well as a huge range of older procs.
for reference - my results have been (from memory, might be off)
dual 5520 - 22000
core i7 920 - 16000
core i7 860 - 17500
dual single core opteron 250 - 4000
dual dual core opteron 285 - 8500
dual 5482 - 23500

based on this, I just bought a stack of core i7 860s (asus compact 1u barebones) with 8gb ram for 975$. I am surprised at how quiet and cool they run even under load.

then again, I use houdini so I do not have to worry about render licenses, so you may want fewer, more powerful boxes.

if buying a new machine wait for 3 weeks for the new westmere and the other 32nm procs about to come out.

MD

[meleseDESIGN]

I am surprised at how quiet and cool they run even under load.


What heatsink/PSU do you use?
I had some Thermaltake CL-P0484 for my Dual Xeons 5570, but it wasn´t cool at all - just quiet - so I bought some active heatsinks which were pretty loud even in idle - just cool - after all I switched to a watercooling solution - now it´s cool and quiet. What PSU do you use in your 1U rack units, are they 80+ certified?

Just some things I care about 1U/2U rack units...

[meleseDESIGN]

If that's still the case, its the best $800 one could possibly spend on rendering power.

To be oriented towards market prices, sure it is a great deal.
Performance related you can get allmost the same operating level with an overclocked i7 single socket system. So it makes absolutelly no sense to spend 800$ for a 4 way system if you can get the same power with one CPU for the same Price (4x 8347 Opterons aren´t any better as a 3,8GHz overclocked i7 CPU or two Xeon E5530 CPUs). You would invest your money for the past, you shouldn´t do this when it comes to a Renderfarm solution. LiNUX is a great alternative, but not all Renderengines will support this OS, sadly.

[luxwork]

this is the asus barebones:

http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=mFEulHWY3XNbhgOf

rs100-e5/p12

they have a integrated heatsink that has heatpipes, and it all is cooled by the front fan. There is one more 40mm fan on the power supply, but these things just dont get very hot. I have not measured yet, but I would guess under 150W under load.

I just got a stack of these for a job now, but I am saving some budget for after the 16th on March

MD


What heatsink/PSU do you use?
I had some Thermaltake CL-P0484 for my Dual Xeons 5570, but it wasn´t cool at all - just quiet - so I bought some active heatsinks which were pretty loud even in idle - just cool - after all I switched to a watercooling solution - now it´s cool and quiet. What PSU do you use in your 1U rack units, are they 80+ certified?

Just some things I care about 1U/2U rack units...

[SuryanshuRai]

I think you have got a lot of input already, and I am no expert in this field, but I have been researching a lot for my own workstation, so can share some info I collected.

Processors:
i7 920 is an amazing bet if you are cash strapped. Has great performance.
It has 2.66 Ghz clock speed, 8MB L3 cache and has 4.3 GT/s Bus speed.

From here on you can get i7-930(2.8 GHz), i7-940(2.93 GHz), i7-950(3.06 GHz) and i7-960(3.2 GHz) depending on how much you want to spend. All these have Intel Virtualization Technology and of course 4 cores.

And then of course is the grand dad of i7s. The i7 -975 extreme (3.33 GHz, 6.4 GT/s)
All of the i7 series supports upto 24 GB RAM.

The i7 series, I guess, only works on the X58 chipset. You can either go in for one of the original intel motherboards or get an ASUS P6T Professional, P6T Deluxe or a P6T. and if you are feeling rich you can go in for the P6T supercomputer(its awesome, but will burn a BIGGG hole in your pocket

Also you can look at Xeon E5520. You can get two of these in the price of an i7 975 extreme (in India atleast). With this you get ECC memory and the Xeon archi is very stable. A good MB to go with it is Intel 5520BC, with dual processor slots. It can take RAM upto 192 GB (Please Varify) and support SLI technology. Also, server boards are generally more stable, so you get a nice stable system.

Graphics Cards:

Some of the options I know of are:
ATI FirePro v 7750, v7700, v5700 and v3700
nVidia QuadroFX 1800 or 580

I have heard a lot in favor of ATI cards, but some people have given very bad reviews to ATI, and I just cant seem to trust those guys. So although v7700 is a great deal, but I would like to stick to Quadros. ATI at times messes up with Maya 64 bit big time. Better safe than sorry ;p

Hope I was of help to you.

[SuryanshuRai]

I like v7700 for its price but it supports OpenGL 2.0, whereas all the other support minimum 3.0 Although Maya 2010 is still using openGL 1.5, but my system might go obsolete with the upcoming versions. Please see if this can be an issue later on

On the other hand v7750 has openGL 3.0 and additionally supports shader model 4.1 as compared to 4.0 supported by all other cards.

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