Here's something to kickoff the new forum

[g0tenks0]

http://www.metropolitanpirate.com/images/lol.gif http://www.metropolitanpirate.com/images/lol.gif http://www.metropolitanpirate.com/images/lol.gif

[VashTheStampede]

Oh tutorials! Thanks, is there any tutorials specific to painter classic? Thanks again!:)

[wah431996]

thanks a lot!!:) :) :)

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Lunatique
Here's something to start everyone off with:

Painter Tips & Tricks: http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/goodies/tutorials/painter-tips_tricks.htm?t=30380&highlight=

PDF version: http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/goodies/tutorials/Lunatique%20-%20Painter%20tips%20and%20tricks.pdf?t=30380&highlight=

This was written for Painter 7, but many of the tips apply to all recent versions. I haven't updated it for version 8, since most power users are still using version 7(for numerous reasons). I'm using version 8 since I've learned to work around the new limitations--I don't really miss version 7 all that much now.

For more painter tutorials/custom stuff, just visit the "goodies" section of my website.
What are the "limitations" in Painter 8? I haven't used Painter since version 5. I have a demo of Painter 8 but I haven't played with it yet. I do like the "Photoshop" look of version 8, however.
Painter's interface was never my favorite (that's why I haven't used it in so long). Is version 8 that radically different? Are there tools missing in 8?

[Lunatique]

Two big glaring limitations they implemented in version 8:

1)No more custom palettes.
2)No more hardcore brush tweaking on the fly. You now have to open up the Brush Designer to do it, and while you do it, the entire UI is taken over by the Brush Designer.

Just these two were enough to send the power users screaming and running back to version 7 or 6.

I toughed it out and I'm used to it now.

[Locutus]

Would I be missing out on anything if I just started using Painter 8? Honestly, I've been so out of touch with Painter, I would pretty much have to relearn it anyway. Besides, Painter 8's interface is very inviting (because it looks alot like Photoshop)

[Jinbrown]

Hi,

Let me assure you that not only "power users" are hounding Corel to fix things and return Custom Palettes and ready access to Brush Controls to us!

The only people who are not outraged are new Photoshop converts who never knew what they were missing and people who never used more than one or two brush variants anyway.. and seldom if ever used Layers.

It makes me laugh when I read someone saying the Painter 8 interface looks inviting or it looks like Photoshop.

All that glitters is not gold!

If you choose to buy Painter 8, you'll no doubt enjoy a lot of it.

For the rest, you'll need to rely on your friends and other experienced Painter users to bail you out.. give you workarounds where there are any.. or just to console you.

As Rob says, it is possible to get used to it so there's at least that much hope.

In addition, we continue to press Corel to fix the program so it operates as it should.

Good luck in any case. Painter is a beautiful and powerful program and even with bugs and other problems you can do some great things with it.

[ninjacore]

Hi Lunatique! thanks for the tutorials and stuff. your website kicks ass. all nice and inspirational ( ..and other fanboy crap....)!

i just got painter 8 this week, and i've been having a ton of fun messing around with the brushes! before this i was using painter classic which came with my wacom. but i'm seeing a lot of posts about P8 being contraversial.

hmm, dunno where i'm going with this! i guess i just want to get involved! ha!:)

[Locutus]

:surprised
Looks like I just re-opened a few wounds, yikes.
Well, I guess if Discreet or NewTek took tools out of 3dsmax or Lightwave that were important to me as a modeler and animator, I'd be pissed too.
Anyway, I suppose since I'm not much of a Painter power user and the Power Users hate Painter 8, I won't get much help here.:shrug:

[symantix]

Originally posted by Lunatique
Two big glaring limitations they implemented in version 8:

1)No more custom palettes.
2)No more hardcore brush tweaking on the fly. You now have to open up the Brush Designer to do it, and while you do it, the entire UI is taken over by the Brush Designer.

Just these two were enough to send the power users screaming and running back to version 7 or 6.

I toughed it out and I'm used to it now.

Robert, what made you tough it out? I've been using Painter 8 for just a few weeks, and for me the only advantage is the stroke smoothing. In Painter 7, I never found a way to smooth out the plotted look that strokes had when you made a quick stroke with your stylus. Photoshop 7 has a check box for smoothing which eliminates this, and Painter 8 just smoothes the stroke automatically; I don't think you can even disable the feature in Painter 8.

To me, even though this is the only advantage that I have found, it is an invaluable advantage. I will put up will all of Painter 8's downfalls just to have that little feature.

But my question to you is this: You and many other fantastic digital artists have gotten by without this feature in Painter 7 and prior versions, and have done a fantastic job. How did you get around this problem? Here is an illustration of what I'm talking about:

http://dluxprinting.com/Joey/stroke_test.jpg

See how it looks like it's made up of a series of short, straight lines, rather than one smoothe curve? I've never found a way to eliminate this effect in Painter, other than just moving my stylus slowly.

If I could figure out how to smoothe the strokes out in Painter 7, I would probably go back to using it.

[Lunatique]

Locotus-- not at all. Many have converted, like me.

symantix-- Actually, to get smooth, flowing lines, you draw fast, not slow. In fact, it's all in the flick of the wrist--and it takes a lot of practice. This is one of the few things about art that's directly related to the craft--in terms of physical movement to be perfected to achieve a certain effect. I never really noticed much of a difference, since drawing in a software have always been bad compared to pencil/pen&paper. I just kind of grit my teeth and flick my wrist over and over until I get a line right. . ..

As far as overcoming version 8's limitation--it's really just sitting down and using it--and forcing yourself not to switch back to version 7. I tend to have only 1 or 2 brushes I really like out of any given category anyway, so I only have to pick the category to get to that brush(Painter automatically picks the last brush you used in a category). I can imagine others being more frustrated though. The loss of tweak-on-the-fly is more severe, but I usually only need it to set the size dynamic to pen pressure or off, so it's not often I need to fire it up.

Another thing I don't like about the new version is that they changed the cursor shape. It used to be a sharp triangle, and I loved it because I can see down to 1 pixel of the contact point. Now, it's a rounded tip and the contact point isn't so obvious anymore.

To defend version 8 though, I would say that the new perspective grid is an amazing addition.

[symantix]

Hey, Robert. Thanks for the reply. I agree with you about the quick strokes. Pencil or computer, those quick, confident strokes are what get the job done.

Ironically, that's where the problem pokes its head up the most. That's what I was trying to make clear in my last post. The quicker the stroke, the more it looks like it's made up of line segments. It is as if the the processor is not calculating the stroke quickly enough (but that can't be the problem, I don't think, because I'm running on a P4 1.8GHz, and I've seen people to better with less).

This is why I have such a problem with it; I need the quick strokes; I rarely use a slow stroke, especially at the beginning stages of my work.

I'm surprised you haven't encountered this problem. Blind and I had an extensive discussion about this on conceptart.org ; this is one of his main beefs with Painter or PS, as it is mine. It was in that discussion that I discovered that PS7 had a check box to smoothe the brush stroke. "Smoothing" makes it sound like it's doing something to augment what you're true stroke looks like, but I've tested it over and over, and the only thing it seems to do is get rid of the line segment effect on quick strokes; in essence, it seems to bring the digital representation of your stroke to a truer state. It was later that I discovered that Painter8 used stroke smoothing by default.

So you've never encountered this problem at all? I'm far from being a professional, and my skills with the Wacom need a lot of enhancing. But I can sit there and just scribble on the page, and the strokes are not truly smoothe in PS6 or Painter7; they're always made up of tiny line segments.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to address this.

[Murtaza]

Hey symantix i know exactly what you mean...

http://www.3dluvr.com/murtaza/misc/stroke-test2.jpg

As you can see i get that jaggy effect when using photoshop but not with painter. I'm not sure why, it could have to do with the brush tracking setup in painter. Poke around those settings and with your tablet settings to see if that gets you anywhere :)

*edit*

Nevermind :wise:

[jbw]

Lunatique - Thanks for the tips. I've only had Painter for a week or 2 and they're gonna be invaluable! :thumbsup:

ta,
jbw

[symantix]

Murtaza, you got a smoothe stroke in Painter 7? Or is that in Painter 8?

[sand dragon]

Originally posted by symantix

See how it looks like it's made up of a series of short, straight lines, rather than one smoothe curve? I've never found a way to eliminate this effect in Painter, other than just moving my stylus slowly.

If I could figure out how to smoothe the strokes out in Painter 7, I would probably go back to using it.

Symantix,

Which brush are you experiencing the problem with in Painter 7, and is the brush at it's default setting?

In the 'spacing' section of the brush controls palette, ensure that 'damping' and 'cubic interpolation points' are set high enough. With the damping slider, take it up to maximum and try your brush. You will notice it is very slow, but now keep reducing the setting a little each time until the brush draws without noticeable lag. Try setting the cubic interpolation points between 3 and 5.

David

[Murtaza]

Originally posted by symantix
Murtaza, you got a smoothe stroke in Painter 7? Or is that in Painter 8?

Painter 8 :(

[symantix]

Well, anyhow...I think I'll just get used to 8. Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

One thing I really like about 8 is the tab key; it makes all the control pallettes disappear, and then reappear on the toggle. So you can map your Wacom to your main monitor, leave your secondary monitor for reference pics or whatever, assign all of your control pallettes to the main monitor, and tab them on only when you need them. Now you have access to all the toolbars on the main monitor, and the ability to draw using the whole screen at the same time, and everything is on the fly. Even the new Brush Designer is not that bad when you can hide it with the tab key. I think Photoshop has actually had this function for awhile, but Painter 7 sure wouldn't do it, to my knowledge.

Also, did Painter 7 let you resize your brushes with the "[" and "]". I don't know, I stumbled upon the hotkey as I was going through the Painter 8 help files. That is one nice tip to know. Plus you can hold down Ctrl+Shift+Alt and drag the size of your brush up or down with the cursor; but I've found the "[" and "]" keys to be much more handy.

[Locutus]

That's why I like Painter 8. It has some very Photoshop like functions (like using the "[" and "]" keys to change brush size).
:p

[Jinbrown]

Hi Symantix,

I'm curious about your short segment brushstrokes. In all the years I've been using Painter and reading posts on lots of Painter related lists, newsgroups, and forums, the only place I recall ever hearing about this is at conceptart.org and here.

Could be I've forgotten, though.

I just did some testing and it seems I'd almost have to try to make my brushstrokes have such evenly spaced angles. It looks mechanical or electronic (see how techie I am?).

I'm wondering if it's something to do with the tablet and pen, not Painter (though I'm perfectly willing to holler about Painter when it is at fault).

How close is your tablet to your monitor?

Have you by now reset your Brush Tracking (Edit > Preferences > Brush Tracking) using your normal hand pressure?

Have you checked everything in the Wacom Properties panel?

Have you talked with Wacom? They're great about helping their customers.. for free, too.

How's the condition of your tablet surface and stylus nib?

Those brushstrokes look like they're going over evenly spaced bumps.

Interruptions! That's what I meant by "electronic" like the signal's getting interrupted.

How much other stuff do you have running while Painter's open?

Do you close Painter every hour or so, delete the Pre-built Brush File and launch Painter again? If not, do. That file grows large quickly and when it does it can make Painter behave strangely, sometimes even cause it to crash. It's regenerated the next time Painter is opened.

Do you ever post on the corel.graphic_apps.painter newsgroup or the Painter list at Topica.com? If not, you might try asking folks there if they can think of anything that might be the cause.

Well, enough rambling. I was hoping a brilliant idea would come along if I kept typinig. ;)

[Jinbrown]

Originally posted by symantix
Well, anyhow...I think I'll just get used to 8. Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

Good idea. I'm getting used to it too, though there are still things I'm going to keep pushing to have fixed and/or returned to us. Painter is my love so I'm not giving up. ;)


One thing I really like about 8 is the tab key; it makes all the control pallettes disappear, and then reappear on the toggle.


This is terrific! A single key to get rid of all the clutter and bring it back instantly when you need it.

I only wish the Brush Creator was included in the closing/opening done by the Tab key! That would make a huge difference. It's not a palette, though, and doesn't behave like one.

<snip>


Also, did Painter 7 let you resize your brushes with the "[" and "]". I don't know, I stumbled upon the hotkey as I was going through the Painter 8 help files. That is one nice tip to know. Plus you can hold down Ctrl+Shift+Alt and drag the size of your brush up or down with the cursor; but I've found the "[" and "]" keys to be much more handy.

Yes, both Painter 6 and Painter 7 use the "[" and "]" keys to size brushes up and down.

In Painter 5, we could hold down the Ctrl/Command+Alt/Option keys and drag to resize the brush.

In Painter 6, we could hold down the Ctrl/Command+Alt/Option keys and drag to resize the brush or use the "[" and "]" keys to size brushes up and down.

In both Painter 7 and Painter 8 we can use Ctrl/Command+Shift+Alt/Option and drag to resize a brush or use the "[" and "]" keys to size brushes up and down.

I don't have Painter 4 installed anymore so that's as far back as I can go.

Painter Classic 1 was based on Painter 5 so it probably works the same in this respect.

Painter Classic 2 is based on Painter 7 and again, it probably works the same as that version with regard to resizing a brush.

[HapZungLam]

oh hey, you are the mod of this forum!!!!! hurray

[symantix]

Hey, Robert...extremely sorry for hijacking your thread...back to you, my friend.

[Lunatique]

Nono, hijack away. I'm just the mod--here to help out Leo and you guys. :beer:

[Shannon]

I'm new to Painter as well. Just bought ver 8.

I'm really concerned about the fact that even with my canvas at 100%, 300dpi, I'm seeing no antialiasing. Any brush with a hard edge gives me the jaggies as I paint at an angle. Is there a setting for interpolation or aa that I'm missing? Is this the norm?
Same strokes in PS gives perfect AA, not that I want to paint in PS, but I dont think its my hardware. Help?

http://www.filmic.net/No AA.jpg
Pencil 2B 300dpi 100%

Sorry bout the double post.

[Lunatique]

Shanon- Are you getting these jaggies with other brushes like Cover Pencil, Scratchboard Tool..etc too?

[Shannon]

http://www.filmic.net/scratchboard.jpg
Here's the Scratchboard tool

Not as bad with the Cover Pencil.

What gives? Is this normal?

Seems that the 2B is the worst offender.

[Lunatique]

The different brushes have different settings. You can play in the Brush Designer for hours to come up with new brushes that suits your own needs. I never use the 2B pencil--it's nothing like a real 2B pencil, and it's makes ugly lines. LOL!

[Shannon]

Ok, I feel much better now.

The other tools seem much smoother in general than the 2B, I'll stay away from that one.

Thank you.

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