dual fx580 or single fx1800

[Jettatore]

How much does it cost? I'm honestly not sure that I like that machine, a price will know for sure. Also which Xeon?

[meleseDESIGN]

You know the 1800 will be better as the 580.
So why do you ask again if you don´t respect given answers anyways?

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=23&t=849333


Like Per told you allready, Quadros are a waste of money.
You´re using Max, Vray and AE as far as I figured out by looking in your gallery.
You don´t need a 1800 and neighter two 580 gfx cards - not for the stuff you do and not for the apps you´re playing with.

In your case SLI makes no sence.

[gawl126]

Can you list the card options they give you?

[imashination]

I would like to go with a GTX 260 but it is not offered as an option, even after calling dell and inquiring it seems they can not ship the system with that card.

So why dont you buy from somewhere that sells what you actually want?

[meleseDESIGN]

There are more than 100 places to buy a GTX260.
Why don´t you buy the Dell T5500 station and replace the gfx card? It would be that simple.
Or are you still afraid to replace the gfx card by yourself?

[vlad]

A respectable T5500 build with 2x 2.5ghz procs, 12gb of ram, a 1tb drive, a 1gb firepro 8700 and Win7 Pro 64bits will set you back to 5700$. The same build from Newegg with a 260gtx plus a top notch good looking case like a Corsair or Silverstone adds up to around 3200$.
Got you thinking there, eh? ;)

[mlager8]

I know the parts alone would be cheaper from newegg but I've never built a computer and dont feel confident trying my first time with expensive components. Here is the build

Dell Precision T5500 Workstation
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, with Media, 64-bit
Dual Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processors E5504 2.0GHz,4M L3, 4.8GT/s
4GB, DDR3 Memory, 1066MHz, ECC (4 DIMMS)
Dual 512MB NVIDIA® Quadro® FX 580, QUAD MON, 4DP & 2DVI
total: $2,153
or $2,323 with the 1800

Melese I respect the information you gave me via my last post on the subject but like i said, dell could not offer me the GTX card as part of this build. I looked at many workstations and this is the one that came closest to my budget. Im trying to stay in the $2000-$2500 range. Your suggestion of buying the base and getting the card elsewhere is probably the best idea I've heard.

gawl the card options are basically either the 256mb included in the base, any quadro or the firepro v5700 or v8700

I appreciate all the input eveyone is giving, I really just am a novice at computer building and am not trying to disrespect anyone by not heeding their word. That being said what are the thoughts on this configuration?

[Jettatore]

Two things. #1. You may not be getting the best deal here from Dell even if you insist on the machine being put together for you. That's a seriously overpriced rig at $2,000+ and the parts are all a bit older now. #2. There is a fantastic competitor to Newegg called NCIX, and while Newegg is my personal favorite in the US, NCIX will actually for a nominal fee, put all your parts in your cart together for you and install your choice of operating system so long as you put that in the cart too, and mail you a finished computer.

http://www.ncixus.com/products/26376/PC-ASSEMBLY-BB/NCIXPC/

Even if you don't like #2., now that you've posted the price and specs people can hunt out what may be a better deal for you on a finalized rig built by a vendor.

[redpandafire]

That computer is over $2000+ but only has 4GB of RAM..... I'd be running and screaming right now.

[gawl126]

Do you have a friend at your work place that could help you with building your first computer?

[vlad]

I know the parts alone would be cheaper from newegg but I've never built a computer and dont feel confident trying my first time with expensive components. Here is the build

Dell Precision T5500 Workstation
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, with Media, 64-bit
Dual Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processors E5504 2.0GHz,4M L3, 4.8GT/s
4GB, DDR3 Memory, 1066MHz, ECC (4 DIMMS)
Dual 512MB NVIDIA® Quadro® FX 580, QUAD MON, 4DP & 2DVI
total: $2,153
or $2,323 with the 1800

Melese I respect the information you gave me via my last post on the subject but like i said, dell could not offer me the GTX card as part of this build. I looked at many workstations and this is the one that came closest to my budget. Im trying to stay in the $2000-$2500 range. Your suggestion of buying the base and getting the card elsewhere is probably the best idea I've heard.

gawl the card options are basically either the 256mb included in the base, any quadro or the firepro v5700 or v8700

I appreciate all the input eveyone is giving, I really just am a novice at computer building and am not trying to disrespect anyone by not heeding their word. That being said what are the thoughts on this configuration?

But why go for a dual cpu if you'll only put 2ghz units and 4gb of ram in there? At that rate, An oc'ed i7 960 with 12gb would most likely handle better and cost 700-800$ less. And since SLI is still useless for 3D, you have 1 slow low-end Quadro that's working and another one sitting there doing nothing apart from consuming power and uselessly heating up your box.
I understand it might seem daunting building a computer from scratch if you've never done it, but in reality it is quite easy and straightforward. If you have an old comp lying around, open the case, take a few snapshots of the insides and go find the mobo's user manual, take everything out and put it back up. That Dell you got there is not a good deal at all IMO :shrug:

[mlager8]

Unfortunately no, no one at work has anymore computer building knowledge than I do. I did however try to put together a comparable system to the one i priced at dell from NCIXUS as Jettatore suggested. It came out about $500 cheaper and a little better but I'm sure there's still a lot of room for improvement. What do you think:

(apparently ncixus dosent have a public wishlist like newegg so ill just post the links to the components individually)

1x OS: Win7 (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=45275&promoid=1043)
1x Dual socket mother board (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=25776&promoid=1043)
2x Xeon nehalem processor (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=37598&promoid=1043)
1x GTX 260 graphics card (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=46573&promoid=1043)
1x ddr3 trip channel 6gb kit (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=35710&promoid=1043)
1x coolmaster case (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=38996&promoid=1043)
1x WD 1tb hard drive (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=31000&promoid=1043)
1x dvd drive (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=39427&promoid=1043)

the total with the $50 assembly and warranty came out to $1,804.76

Is there anything I'm missing, or better yet what changes should I make? There is a deal to slap on a 60gb SSD for $173 but whats the advantage? Also will the power supply that coems with the case be enough or do I need to add a new one?

[mlager8]

I see your point vlad, with a possible build from ncixus I'm definitely scratching dual video cards and going with the gtx260, as for the mobo cpu setup I'm still unsure. The system I posted has 6gb ram but ram is always upgradable when I can afford to spend a few more dollars. Going back to you suggestion the i7 960 is listed for $621 while the two xeon 2.13 nehalem's come to a total of $610.RAM aside, is the single i7 really going to perform better then the dual xeons?

[Jettatore]

That case you listed actually doesn't come with a Power Supply, I'm sure the crowd can throw in some good recommendations, I like Corsair but they aren't always the cheapest option. Congrats on at least attempting an NCIX build, and good luck with it.

If you go through with it, one of the very first things, if not the very first things you need to do is use Windows 7's built in back-up tools to create a system image. You will need an external hard disk, large thumb drive or a DVD or two, but this way your entire factory configuration will be backed up.

The 960 isn't a bad chip or anything, but price to performance ratio at todays prices would suggest that the 920 is a bigger bang for you buck. It's half the price, but not nearly half the power. If you can think in these terms, your money will go farther in the long run as you will have left over cash for future purchases. Just a thought.

[gawl126]

There are tons of articles online that would help you with putting together a pc.

http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/144

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/the-geek-blog/building-a-new-computer-part-1-choosing-hardware/

These are old articles, but putting together a pc hasn't changed at all. Good luck! There are people here for you to consult for help if you have problems during your build.

[redpandafire]

This comment won't be that usefull, but if I had to spend $1800 right now, I'd just build two of these and overclock the cores to 3.8 Ghz:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.328905

:thumbsup:

[Jettatore]

This comment won't be that usefull, but if I had to spend $1800 right now, I'd just build two of these and overclock the cores to 3.8 Ghz:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.328905

:thumbsup:

I think you could do without the $350 case but I guess it's some sort of combo deal, I'd leave the rest as is, switch out the case for something cheaper and put the money into the RAM and keep the change.

[redpandafire]

I think you could do without the $350 case but I guess it's some sort of combo deal, I'd leave the rest as is, switch out the case for something cheaper and put the money into the RAM and keep the change.

Thats what I get for not looking. :surprised Although.....its hand-carved!!

Anyways, I guess this is what I'd actually get for a price that isn't too much more than standard:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=13961066

[gawl126]

I think you could do without the $350 case but I guess it's some sort of combo deal, I'd leave the rest as is, switch out the case for something cheaper and put the money into the RAM and keep the change.

Don't forget the power supply. I don't know too much about the quality of the Rosewill psu and I wouldn't risk it either.

[gawl126]

Thats what I get for not looking. :surprised Although.....its hand-carved!!

Anyways, I guess this is what I'd actually get for a price that isn't too much more than standard:

https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=13961066

You need to make it public, but this is what I was thinking.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=17487228

EDIT: A few of the parts I recommended are out of stock.

And here's the above posters list after changing the url a bit:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=13961066

[Jettatore]

I didn't go over it with a fine tooth comb but that looks quite solid. Could go a little cheaper on the Power Supply and get the same effect at a high quality, use the extra cash to bump up the RAM possibly. The motherboard also may be a bit "overqualified" at $250 but Asus is my top pick in any build. Regardless that looks quite solid. End price also leaves out an operating system, which could be a bit deceiving. But $1,300 after the OS for a juiced up tower fits most budgets.

[gawl126]

I didn't go over it with a fine tooth comb but that looks quite solid. Could go a little cheaper on the Power Supply and get the same effect at a high quality, use the extra cash to bump up the RAM possibly. The motherboard also may be a bit "overqualified" at $250 but Asus is my top pick in any build. Regardless that looks quite solid. End price also leaves out an operating system, which could be a bit deceiving. But $1,300 after the OS for a juiced up tower fits most budgets.

I went a bit cheaper on the PSU, but not by much so there's still more room. I upped the memory to 12gb which now leaves the price including OS to about $1,400.

[vlad]

I see your point vlad, with a possible build from ncixus I'm definitely scratching dual video cards and going with the gtx260, as for the mobo cpu setup I'm still unsure. The system I posted has 6gb ram but ram is always upgradable when I can afford to spend a few more dollars. Going back to you suggestion the i7 960 is listed for $621 while the two xeon 2.13 nehalem's come to a total of $610.RAM aside, is the single i7 really going to perform better then the dual xeons?

The 960 is 3.2ghz (prolly oc'able to ±4ghz) and your Xeon is 2.1ghz (not oc'able or very difficult to do). That would seem to be pretty equal in performance and price but you forget that the dual socket mobo is at least twice as expensive as a standard one and the fact that the vast majority of applications are single-threaded so you mostly benefit from a faster cpu most of the time. Plus Jettatore is right in saying that the 920 is a much better bang/buck option and you can safely overclock it from 2.6 to 3.2-3.4mhz. (So a bit slower in rendering duties but faster for anything else). I'm not saying you shouldnt get a dual (love mine) but IMO if you really want to benefit from that setup, you have to put 2 fast cpus in there and lots of ram. If you make a living with your computer and do a lot of rendering, I think it's worth it. As for NCIX (Canada), I've ordered quite a few parts from them and they've been very fast and reliable so far.

Cheers

[meleseDESIGN]

Building a Dual Socket system or buy it right of the shelf is a good concept.

When building a Single Socket system you´re limited for upgrades in the future and probably you will need to buy a hole system after 1-2 years, with a Dual Socket System you only need to upgrade parts like the CPU(s).

The X55XX Gainestown CPU will be much cheaper once the 6Core Xeons are on the market. RAM isn´t expansive too.

If you don´t want to buy a hole new system within the next 1-2 years after this buy then go for a dual socket system, otherwise the recommendations peoples have given to built/buy an i7 System will be just fine.

[gawl126]

Building a Dual Socket system or buy it right of the shelf is a good concept.

When building a Single Socket system you´re limited for upgrades in the future and probably you will need to buy a hole system after 1-2 years, with a Dual Socket System you only need to upgrade parts like the CPU(s).

The X55XX Gainestown CPU will be much cheaper once the 6Core Xeons are on the market. RAM isn´t expansive too.

If you don´t want to buy a hole new system within the next 1-2 years after this buy then go for a dual socket system, otherwise the recommendations peoples have given to built/buy an i7 System will be just fine.

Any recommendations on dual socket builds? I took a look at the motherboards for those, but I'm pretty lost in that area.

[imashination]

When building a Single Socket system you´re limited for upgrades in the future and probably you will need to buy a hole system after 1-2 years, with a Dual Socket System you only need to upgrade parts like the CPU

How is that different in any way to a single cpu machine? You can upgrade exactly the same components.

[meleseDESIGN]

Any recommendations on dual socket builds? I took a look at the motherboards for those, but I'm pretty lost in that area.

The ASUS Z8NA-D6 has a attractive price and technically it´s a good start.

[meleseDESIGN]

How is that different in any way to a single cpu machine? You can upgrade exactly the same components.

Absulutelly!
But switching from an i7 960 to 975 makes no sence IMO.
cbscores.com is probably the best referenz to take the right decision. Isn´t it?

[meleseDESIGN]

Here is a Dual Socket set up for sale in your country:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260551146981


Alle you would need to finish the project is RAM, a GFX card, PSU, HDD, Case (any ATX case will be fine, since it is a ATX board), Cd/DVD Drive.

[imashination]

Absulutelly!
But switching from an i7 960 to 975 makes no sence IMO.
cbscores.com is probably the best referenz to take the right decision. Isn´t it?

For his budget I would pick a nice 4ghz single cpu machine rather than go with a bit of a sucky 2ghz xeon. It will be easier to build, make less noise, less heat, give faaaaar faster speeds in almost every app.

Just, buying a machine which is already a bit slow with the reasoning "you can make it less sucky in a couple of years" seems a waste.

[meleseDESIGN]

For his budget I would pick a nice 4ghz single cpu machine rather than go with a bit of a sucky 2ghz xeon. It will be easier to build, make less noise, less heat, give faaaaar faster speeds in almost every app.

His preferred Xeons doesn´t have HT (Hyperthreading) and TB (Turbo Boost), what isn´t I would like to pay for. If he really want a top fast Rendermachine and high speed in every application then he need to invest a higher amount sooner or later.

I have a Dual Socket machine as well and I never ever would go back to single CPU voluntarily. I like the i7 too, but unfortunatelly it´s to slow for my animal needs ;), other reason is you can expand RAM maximal to 24GB in a single socket í7 machine (I know some socket 775 boards from abit that can hold till 32GB, but it´s a old socket).

To overclock an i7 to 4ghz you need a little bit knowlege as well and not every board will support it without to cause some trouble. I would also not like to work with an overclocked workstation during the production stage. It´s probably more suited for gamer or overclocker to overclock a system as an hobby - it´s also not a cheap hobby if something goes damaged, because there is no warranty when overclocking.

[Jettatore]

I'm just going to second the notion that for current purposes for this buyer, to get a single CPU and skip the mediocre Xeon stuff with plans to upgrade it later. I think it's 100% not nessicary and I also think it's just going to confuse the OP beyond the point of being productive.

[mlager8]

Melese, you said the xeons I picked dont have hyper threading, but doesn't all nehalem architecture support hyper threading? The reason I wanted to go with dual quads was becasue I thought there would be an advantage to having more cores, especially when using vray maya which also utilizes hyper threading. This aside it seems alot of you agree a single cpu, looks like i7, would suit me best for my budget. I dont really want to over clock because lack of experience and I dont want to fry my brand new build. If I go this route is it safe to say the 960 as suggested before is my best option? The 975 is almost double the price and seems not worth the bang/buck.

[meleseDESIGN]

You could avoid to buy the wrong Xeon 5500 Serie CPU. http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?series=39565

There you see, no HT/TB below Xeon E5520.

I purchased several X5570 and it´s awesome because they are so fast and have only a TDP of 95 Watts.

As for the single CPU the i7 920 brings you the best bank for the buck.
But i would avoid to overclock it till 4GHz, because that´s allmost the limit/extrem. You could everclock it to the clock speed of an i7 975 without any problems, that makes the bang/buck.

[imashination]

On the overclocking front, you cant fry it, modern cpus and motherboards have far too many safety measures, it will automatically slow the chip down and/or shut down long before any damage starts occurring to the cpu.

In regards to experience, most boards will have an automatic overclock mode, just press it and almost all of them will get your cpu to 3.5ghz without you having to know what youre doing.

[Jettatore]

I would spend the money up front and not worry about upgrades, but make sure your getting biggest bang for your buck in your price range. Whether that mark ends up being single or dual core doesn't matter so much. Simply save the money for later. Upgrading, is still going to be a pain if you go with a dual board and the setup is likely going to be more expensive up front, as well pieces of the equation are likely to be obsolete when considering upgrades down the road.

By the time you want to upgrade, your going to want to be able to take advantage of new memory architectures, as well likely as new CPU architectures entirely, rather than just being able to up your clock-speed alone. At this rate, it's best to just get a new mobo/cpu/ram setup and sell the old one for some cash back once your up and running. The new board will also likely give you access to new Video Card functionality that they release and update from time to time.

My upgrade path usually has me upgrading/replacing video cards as one step. And in another step, replacing the mobo/cpu/ram all at once. Sometimes this is not feasible to split into two steps, for example when they switched from AGP to PCIe video cards, at which point you basically had to buy a new machine entirely, which is also never a bad idea because now you either have a 2nd backup machine or a complete working system that can be sold for cash back.

[meleseDESIGN]

By the time you want to upgrade, your going to want to be able to take advantage of new memory architectures, as well likely as new CPU architectures entirely, rather than just being able to up your clock-speed alone.

Don´t expect a hugh headway in newer CPU Architectur for the next 2 years.
I can´t imagine newer hardware would perform better as it does allready nowadays. Everything needs only seconds till nowadays with recent hardware. The only complain I have noticed is with the FPS in viewport with bigger secenes, but that´s GPU realatet. Rendertime is also far to slow nowadays, but it would just need seconds if it wouldnßt be CPU-related, so better GPU Rederengines is needed.

I think now it´s time for software developers to code their stuff more effective for recent newer CPU/GPU/Memory architecture and we don´t have to care about CPU upgrades in the future anymore.

I´m really keyed up what´s comming next from the Software side.
CUDA SDK is a really good basis if you look at some of the developers work like: furryball.aaa-studio.cz, 3d-coat.com, chaosgroup.com/en/2/vrayrt.html, cyberradiance.com/hairfarm - and many more.

[Jettatore]

"Don´t expect a hugh headway in newer CPU Architectur for the next 2 years."

Fair enough by why would you buy/build a new computer today with the intention of upgrading the CPU in 2 years? That should not be necessary.

[meleseDESIGN]

Fair enough by why would you buy/build a new computer today with the intention of upgrading the CPU in 2 years? That should not be necessary.

The main thing is we have a great architecture from the hardware side nowadays, every application works great with it.

Even your i7 system with a GTX260 has so much power. From the software side most applications aren´t able to tap the full potential of that actual hardware architecture.

We need modern developer from the softwareside right now and we don´t need hardware upgrades today and not tomorrow.

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