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EYEINVISION
02-11-2010, 07:51 AM
Hello all,

I am taking on a project with my friend and he and I decided that a black and whit effect would work best. We are not sure that the Sin City effect is the perfect way to go however I would like someone; anyone to please give me direction on how to achieve this effect so we can experiment using this as a starting point. I apologize if it is not a lighting question, I just assumed it would be. Well thank for anyone helping me out and I am using 3ds MAX 2010

mister3d
02-11-2010, 10:02 AM
It's a noir lighting style, but with comics contrast and exaggeration. And a limited color palette with a red accent.

tbrad
02-11-2010, 10:17 AM
follow the linky
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/swanson_grant/sin_city1.php

EYEINVISION
02-11-2010, 06:13 PM
Thank you, Thank you. However I get the style and understand it well I've drawn many pictures like this and can fake this effect in video editing (thanks for the link). I was more or less asking for the rendering settings or if it would possibly be the material settings?

Jettatore
02-11-2010, 07:57 PM
If you can fake it in video, then why not render out a video, and fake it in video. Sin City the movie, did it that way.

EYEINVISION
02-11-2010, 08:03 PM
I'm guessing I would like to see if I can achieve a more dramatic effect by doing it by render or materials. Post production effects are nice but I think the effect might feel empty for lighting purposes. Lets say I render a picture and then apply the sin city effect in photoshop well that's just another step I have to take just to see if the lighting is in the correct place or any other adjustments that I might need to do would be better time managed if I can skip that effect phase in another program. Test rendering a part, section or frame in the effect already would prove more time efficient. But I see your point.

scrimski
02-11-2010, 10:19 PM
Test rendering a part, section or frame in the effect already would prove more time efficientIn 3ds Max? I highly doubt that.

I was more or less asking for the rendering settings or if it would possibly be the material settings?Well, monochormatic of course, using fallof maps with steep mix curves or toon shaders limited to black and white. Stylized and exaggerated textures, inverted panel lines in shadows created by shadow light falloff maps and such.
As for lighting: hard lights with a small fallof, no or very, very tiny use of GI, lots of gobos, projection maps, a typical low-key lighting and the like.

Render settings? Which renderer do you plan to use?

Post production effects are nice but I think the effect might feel empty for lighting purposes. You may utilize a normal pass for lighting purposes. Do a google search, there are a few tutorials about that. Light and shadow can be created in compsoiting applications like After Effects which will probably render faster than in 3dsMax resulting in a more direct control.

Reed5point0
02-12-2010, 01:54 PM
From Wiki:
Film noirs tended to use low-key lighting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-key_lighting) schemes producing stark light/dark contrasts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_%28vision%29) and dramatic shadow patterning. The shadows of Venetian blinds or banister rods, cast upon an actor, a wall, or an entire set, are an iconic visual in film noir and had already become a cliché (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clich%C3%A9) well before the neo-noir era. Characters' faces may be partially or wholly obscured by darkness—a relative rarity in conventional Hollywood moviemaking. While black-and-white cinematography is considered by many to be one of the essential attributes of classic noir, the color films Leave Her to Heaven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leave_Her_to_Heaven) (1945) and Niagara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_%281953_film%29) (1953) are routinely included in noir filmographies, while Slightly Scarlet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slightly_Scarlet) (1956), Party Girl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_Girl_%281958_film%29) (1958), and Vertigo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertigo_%28film%29) (1958) are classified as noir by varying numbers of critics.[128] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir#cite_note-127)

So if you are going for a full 3d effect and no post, I would have to say its about how you light the scene. Aim for the methods that the guys in the 30's and 40's used.

Just a few things to play with b/c I like to experiment...What about an Occlusion pass with its low and high settings tweaked for the b/w desaturated look?

A very fine ramped toon shader would probably look pretty good too.

I love Robert Rodriguez's bonus features on his dvd's and I suggest watching all of the Sin City making of ones....even the Breakfast Tacos. He really gets hands on and shows you how they did things.

Mainly that visual credit goes Hybride, Orphanage, and Cafe FX ( I hope I didn't leave any houses out but props to you guys as well)

EYEINVISION
02-13-2010, 12:59 AM
Thank you so much for doing that. You have been most helpful that 30's and 40's lighting techniques idea was superb.

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