OT: to the dads (and moms) out there

[JamesMK]

Hey, Iggy, that is the Big Question, isn't it?

I've got a daughter who's 6 years old. Though I've only been doing CG for a bit more that 3 years, I was totally hooked to my computer ever since she was born (but I was into programming back then - same problem).

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any other solution than to cut down on sleeping. It sucks, but there you go...

The only advice I can come up with, is that there is no point in staying up each and every night. Your brain turns into a total mess after a few days of only a few hours sleep, and that means you're not really able to learn anything even if you are trying.

Personally, I usually stay up for two, three nights in a row (going to bed around 2 AM) - and then I go to sleep really early on day 4 to regain some sanity...

This works for me. But then again, different people have different needs when it comes to sleep. When I was younger (starting to sound like my grandmother now) I could easily go for 48 hours without any sleep at all, but that is ENTIRELY out of the question nowadays...

Another thing is to wake up before the kids. I've tried that at some occasions. My daughter goes to bed around 8:30, and if I do that as well, and set my alarmclock to wake me up at 3:00... That gives me about four hours of free time before anyone else wakes up. In fact, sometimes it can be quite pleasant to do some work as the morning slowly breaks...

Hope this helps!

[LucentDreams]

Don't have a kid of my onw, but I live with my brother his fiance and their daughter, whose tetthing right now, oh the funm, as well as I've been helping raise my sisters girls four the past five of almost 6 years (with a hiatus when I was in vancouver for school) Main suggestion I can give, is FREELANCE. Its a great way to work at home a lot more. Also if you work at a smaller design house and such, buy a laptop, I have a friend over at bioware who bought one simply because he found out the they are lenient to those with family if they are capable of working at home as well, so while he can't work at home all day, he's allowed to leave earlier and such, get more time with the family especially during those hours right after school, which when I think about my real young days (was totally the opposite in highschool) was some of the best time I could spend with my parents if they were around.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by Kaiskai
Main suggestion I can give, is FREELANCE. Its a great way to work at home a lot more.

Umm, Kaiskai that's not always as flexible as one would hope, and depends a lot on how tight the deadlines are. Not yet a Dad myself though, our child is due in December... 25th believe it or not, will be an interesting start I feel.

[JamesMK]

flyingP - Congratulations! Now I know for a fact you've got some interesting times ahead of you... :D :scream:

[flyingP]

Thanks JamesMK, and to be honest I am actually quite looking forward to it.

cheers

[thorn3d]

You need to find a balance between family (your biggest commitment), work (your biggest priority), and 3D (your personal fun time.)

Working until 3am is not the answer. You may learn some 3D in those late hours, but after a long period of this you're going to be short-tempered, lacking patience, and rather unpleasant to be around the next day... and i'm quite sure your wife doesn't like going to bed alone on a regular basis.

Set aside some "normal" time... say, every Thursday and Saturday night from 8p-11p and stick to it. Let your family know that those hours will be dedicated to 3D, and the rest of your time will be dedicated to them.

Trust me, i learned this the hard way.

thorn

[ODoul]

Interesting, I didn't know this would spawn an entire thread of it's own. Well, as I mentioned before, I'm a full time student, work full time most weeks (although, officially, I'm considered part time) AND I have 2 children, all under the age of 5. It's rough, believe me. School from 8 until around 2 every day, rush off to work until around 8 that night, come home, see my kids for about an hour, do whatever studies I may have which can easily take me until 12 a.m. most nights. THEN, 3D until 3 a.m. most nights. I don't have negative sleep deprivation side effects yet. I've only had C4D for about 3 months now so it hasn't caught up with me yet. At some point it will, I'm sure. For now, It's alot of fun and I enjoy it. My wife supports me because she knows that I need to have something in my life that I enjoy doing as my schedule is rather hectic right now.

I should mention that not every day is this crazy. 2 days out of the week, my classes are over before noon and I don't always work 7-8 hours every day but for the most part, this is my life.

And I wouldn't have it any other way.

3d_e

[flyingP]

Just out of curiosity 3d_e what are you studying?

[ODoul]

I'm a pre-med student, flyingP.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by 3D_Explorer
I'm a pre-med student, flyingP.

Wow! and 3d's your hobby, interesting mix, still I loved your robot.

Cheers , Bri

[ODoul]

Yep, a friend of mine introduced me to it. He is studying Animation and I went to visit him at the beginning of the summer for a couple of weeks. I really was fascinated with it and decided that to look into it when I got home. Well, the rest is history. I tried most of the demos available and decided on C4D. Bought it about a week later and haven't looked back. It's been a wonderful tool to help me realize some of my fantasies. -- 3d_e

[flyingP]

Interesteing 3d_e (and I am sorry for getting a bit off thread here Iggy)and any plans to combine the 2 meaning 3D and medicine? or is the one strictly hobby and the other work?

Oh, and the streetlamps, much better.

[ODoul]

Well, for now, the two are separate with no "plans" for combining them but who knows. I've seen some very impressive medical visualizations that utilize 3D. -- 3d_e

[Ibox]

Balance and dicipline... and holding to these, is the only way... everything in moderation, and doing the crunch thing be it in 3D or studies when the time is right to do so.... and don't allow others to occupy your space when commiting to the tasks at hand... I work hard all day, come home and then go out to look after our clients with our home based business... I don't allow the conversations at either place of work to become personal, nor time consuming... just business, with the odd smile, a few kind words, and off to the next task... 6.5 hours of sleep per day, a couple hours of CG, a couple for enjoying with the family, and the rest work... sometimes it get's pretty tough on ya, but... dreams don't make themselves happen, and going without proper r&r doesn't work... so yea, it's all prioritizing your life's activities to fit within 24/7/52... sometimes you have to adjust this and that, but, just be sure to bring things back into focus and on plan as quickly as you can manage... your bodies cycle will adjust, as will your family members...

[Iggy]

This is great stuff guys, and I feel a little better about my own practices. My only friends who do animation around here are childless freelancers who are scarcely even diurnal anymore. They might be on the computer for 24 hours and then sleep 12... Hard to compare notes with them.

My strategy has been like yours James, stay up late a night or two in the week and usually either Friday or Saturday till 2 or 3. Try to get down at a regular hour the rest of the time to compensate. When I was working on my big project a couple weeks ago I was going to 3 and 4 in the morning everyday and it just melted me down and took a while to recover. (And I'm not particularly old yet: turn 32 in a couple months.) I've just started trying to get into the early mornings, though I haven't gotten up quite that early... It does seem to be all balance, not getting too obsessed about any one part of life and not taking your family for granted. Sure gets tough, though, when you get that itch and you're ready to work for 12 hours, but that time just isn't available. On the other hand, it's lucky I didn't find this when I was single or I would likely be single still!!

Oh yah, congrats FlyingP. Soon you'll know all about the CIA sleep deprivation training that is: the first six months... It'll serve you in good stead for 3d work. :p

[flyingP]

Originally posted by Iggy

Oh yah, congrats FlyingP. Soon you'll know all about the CIA sleep deprivation training that is: the first six months... It'll serve you in good stead for 3d work. :p

Heh heh,thanks I've already learnt all that through my freelance work, those first six months could even prove relaxing in comparison, although I'll wait on that one before I make my mind up. Actually the real fun will start after that, as my wife and I are planning to return to New Zealand with child, look for work, buy a house, start a life again etc, etc, and 'that' is scaring the crap out of me.

cheers

[AdamT]

There are actually some very well respected medical illustrators/animtors who use Cinema, including Jeff Johnson and Co. from http://www.hybridmedicalanimation.com/ and JeremyW from http://www.biovisioning.com

Those guys do some amazing stuff.

[grstovell]

Hey flyingp!!!

Congrats!
We have an 8 week daughter and life couldn't be better! You're in for quite a ride!

I work full time as a minister (therefore the 'Rev')- which means regular office hours (9 to 5 most of the time), evening meetings (since you have to deal with volunteers who work 9 to 5) and ExTRemely busy Sundays! On top of that, the father of a gorgeous (and demanding) 8 week old baby girl. (Sure... break out the violins... /end of tale of woe)

How do I still find the time to do 3D? Well.. I don't sleep much to start with. 2am used to be preety normal for me before our baby. Now I just 'care for her' (the baby monitor in the computer room) until about 2am.

In the end what has WORKED EXTREMELY WELL for me has been to get myself a laptop and a wacom tablet. It is so easy (and honestly nice) to sit in front of the TV with my wife and daughter, watch a show together, manage to have a conversation, and get some freelancing work done....

It works beautifully for now... I don't imagine this will be a good possibility once our daughter starts walking.... but for now life is GREAT!

-g

[ODoul]

Not trying to burst your bubble there Rev, but wait until that 8 week old is 8 months old. The sitting in front of the TV thing, working on your computer will be a distant memory. ;) Trust me, I know. If it works for now, more power to you. :applause: :applause: Oh yea, congrats P! You're in for the most wonderful rollercoaster ride of your life. -- 3d_e

[ndat]

Originally posted by 3D_Explorer
I'm a pre-med student, flyingP.

Woot me too :) , I'm about two years into my bachlor's degree, how about yourself?

[ODoul]

I will complete my BS in neuroscience next year which will wrap up my pre-med curriculum. On to grad-school here and then, who knows. -- 3d_e

[flyingP]

Originally posted by the Rev.
It is so easy (and honestly nice) to sit in front of the TV with my wife and daughter, watch a show together, manage to have a conversation, and get some freelancing work done....
-g

Rev if that's easy, then the rest of your day must really be full.

[JamesMK]

Woah, I never could handle talking and modeling at the same time :D

Dang, please teach me, Rev! Seriously, I have to focus like crazy in order to get stuff done. Probably just a character flaw on my side... Darn. :)

[fxgogo]

My Daughter is 5 and half months old, and WOW! has it changed our lives. I have a continual battle inside myself, because I totally believe I want to be there as she grows up and be an active father and I want to push my own animation career. So I currently have a schedule which works for me, which is:

Two hours in the evening, usually 9-11 or 10 to 12
One hour in the morning before work (this works well with my baby, as I can sit with her at my computer, as she is usually up, and she will play with one of her toys while I work.)
Half a day on the weekends, usually split over Saturday and Sunday. I am a night owl anyway, so will go to 2am on the weekends just for fun.

I find this schedule works great, in that not only do I get time with the family, a good amount of gfx time, but I also can do renders in the evening, check them in the morning and then set a new bunch of renders for the day while I am at work. I gives a great amount of productivity.

The one thing that is true, nothing prepares you for parenthood, and suddenly what you thought your parents were doing was crazy, makes sense. (eg afternoon naps)

[kromekat]

An interesting and apt thread!

I have a 3yr old, a 1yr old, 2 dogs, a partner, and work freelance from home...

We have been discussing the whole 'how the hell do we make this all tick, maintain sanity and balance, earn a living efficiently while having a healthy happy family' routine this weekend, and the answer does come down to discipline, routine and sticking to it I think!

I have got into the habit of doing my experimentation and learning once the kids and my partner have gone to bed (when it's quiet!), subsequently I often find myself up until 2/3 sometimes 4am, but it's no good - I am awoken earlier than my body can cope with, I get grumpy and slow minded, lose valuable time with my kids when they are at their brightest and happiest (first thing in the am) and end up talking to clients whilst still half asleep! - not good!

Early nights, early rises look like the only way forward!

We all notice how time seems to speed up as we grow older, but have you noticed how MUCH faster it goes when you have children?? - I summise that we truly are witnessing actual time and relativity in our own homes every day via children - for them, everything goes slowly and they are constantly asking "are we there yet?", "Is it here yet?" - whilst we wonder "how the hell is it that time already!?"

With one child I still seemed to have a lot of time to be creative, with two, I can hardly keep my brain unscrambled long enough!!

:rolleyes:

[kromekat]

CIA sleep deprivation training that is: the first six months..

Oh yes indeed... the first six months.... ;)

actually - it was about 7 for us!


....the there are the terrible 2's, which in our case started at about 12 months! :rolleyes:

[kromekat]

Heh heh,thanks I've already learnt all that through my freelance work, those first six months could even prove relaxing in comparison, although I'll wait on that one before I make my mind up.

:thumbsup: uh-huh!

I can pretty much guarantee you that the first 6 months of being a parent are like NOTHING you have ever experienced before, and although freelancing, college projects etc. can show you what it's like to go without sleep for prolonged periods, baby induced sleep deprivation is quite surreal and consistent! :D

I tell you though, I am soooo glad I was freelance, and not having to go back to a normal work routine a couple of weeks after the birth!

Anyway, Huge congrats!! - it's wonderful beyond words, and without doubt, the most amazing inspiration you will ever have!:beer:

[flyingP]

Originally posted by kromekat

I can pretty much guarantee you that the first 6 months of being a parent are like NOTHING you have ever experienced before.

Believe it or not Kromekat that's sort of what I am hoping (famous last words?), otherwise what the point of being a Dad, and behind all the horror story's guys one aslo really notices that you are actually rather proud to be fathers (where are the lady's BTW). I have to admit though I do have no real idea what to expect and to be honest really don't want to paint myself a picture of how it's going to be, just in case it spoils the surprise.

cheers

[Mike Abbott]

Interesting thread...

Having freelanced or run a small business for longer than I care to remember (17 years or so), I have to agree with the excellent 'keep your life in balance' advice that I see in this thread.

It something I fail miserably at myself ;) The pain of the freelance existance is that you get called upon to deliver the goods - when they can't do it themselves (so it's a difficult job) - and when the deadline is fast approaching (so its 2 weeks work, and you've got 4 days to do it ;)

I'm 43 years old, and have two children - a 12 year old and a 3 year old - and I still find I'm working at 2am some mornings...**

It's good (and necessary) to stand back occassionally and examine priorities. As someone famous once said: "No one on his deathbead says 'I wish I'd spent more time at the office'". This thread has been a good reminder.


MIke A.

** There isn't time to do everything - so I watch almost no TV at all.

[kromekat]

** There isn't time to do everything - so I watch almost no TV at all.

lol! - I hear that! - we bought a great Wega widescreen last year, and it's a sexy bit of furniture, but I don't actually watch it much!

[kromekat]

Originally posted by flyingP
I have to admit though I do have no real idea what to expect and to be honest really don't want to paint myself a picture of how it's going to be, just in case it spoils the surprise

No, don't do that - I am also aware that everyones experience of it will be unique yet reassuringly similar! - either way, it will be very real!! :D

[JamesMK]

Originally posted by flyingP
- - - don't want to paint myself a picture of how it's going to be, just in case it spoils the surprise.
Heh... That surprise is impossible to spoil :D

That peculiar combination of joy and horror is second to none. Remember to keep the lines of communication open between you and your wife/girlfriend no matter what happens. If you do that, everything is going to work out fine.

It's pretty important to take turns as well - you don't always have to be the cliché'd happy family, but rather make sure that the both of you get some time off alone from time to time.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by JamesMK
Heh... That surprise is impossible to spoil :D

That peculiar combination of joy and horror is second to none.

Except Duke Nukem.... sorry had to get that in.

[JamesMK]

:D

[flyingP]

OK I can see this is going to be fun, my wife has just bought a towel/ blanket arrangement for wrapping around ones self to carry ones child around in, I think I have just killed a test Teddy bear trying the damn thing out.

[kromekat]

Originally posted by flyingP
OK I can see this is going to be fun, my wife has just bought a towel/ blanket arrangement for wrapping around ones self to carry ones child around in, I think I have just killed a test Teddy bear trying the damn thing out.

Be sure to do all of this in simulation only! :)

I don't know about all the other dads out there reading this - but I felt like I was living in a movie many times in the first year, so farsical are some of the situations you find yourself in! - especially concerning all the 'baby gadgets you never knew existed, cant believe the price of but surely need to make yourself a better, more efficient parent'

The best one I saw recently which must be the top of any new [see gullible] parents wishlist - a baby wipe warmer! :rolleyes:

[flyingP]

Although this thing is not bad, just the initial results were amusing, my mother had something similar I believe and hey I'm still living (well... )

All the same I can relate Kromekat we were just recently in a 'baby supply shop' I was surprised that they didn't have a "please empty your wallet before leaving" sign.

[grstovell]

ok.. guilty as can be.

We actually went ahead and bought a baby wipe warmer... bu then again I can imagine I would like someone to touch my behind with ice-cold wet towels immediately after I woke up from a nap:eek:

Not cg related... but I highly reccomend the wipe-warmer!!!! (I may try it at some point on our baby too:) )

[Augustronïc™]

My partner is doing graphics, photography and layout and I'm doing digital visual effects. We've both our business at home. So often we work till 4am, and the other day we leave everything and go to the mountains or now we go to Ecuador for a month to wash our brains and take loads of pictures.
We have no regular weekplan, but I try to keep it balanced over the year. It depends more on me, I'm 30 years with 11 years of freelance jobs, she just started. Ican hardly imagine to have 2 long working days a week and then some short (but I have no kids at home). There's a job coming in, I'm working until late every day (also getting grumpy, tired, etc.) and when it's finished I spend some time only with her.
But we have some discussions as work is getting more and more during the last 2 years. But take what you get in these days.
Before I met my girlfriend, I was single and I could reduce my sleeping time down to 5 hours per day. I was pushed by immense financial problems to gain productivity.
I'm glad there's my girl taking some control over my health, working in this business can quickly turn you into a work-o-holic as you can see in these posts.

Aloha Achim.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by Augustronïc™
My partner is doing graphics, photography and layout and I'm doing digital visual effects. We've both our business at home. So often we work till 4am, and the other day we leave everything and go to the mountains or now we go to Ecuador for a month to wash our brains and take loads of pictures.
Aloha Achim.

If that's the case Achim then I'll come own south and work for you guys then, Equador sounds like a cool perk, my last real holiday was in Denmark for a week and that's a while here (damn I can see I am going to have to put my fee up)


Oh and Rev, really? although my wife has just told me she heard somewhere that they are not so healthy, but then hey we are beginners, thought I'd pass it on though in case you want to check.

[kromekat]

ok.. guilty as can be.

We actually went ahead and bought a baby wipe warmer... bu then again I can imagine I would like someone to touch my behind with ice-cold wet towels immediately after I woke up from a nap



Ahem - then I apologise for my judgement! - I can see that there is a market, but I think what disgusted us more than anything was the price - £30+ - that's disgraceful, especially given the cost of everything else you really need!

OMG!

Maybe we need a separate forum for parenthood!/ :thumbsup:

[kromekat]

we were just recently in a 'baby supply shop' I was surprised that they didn't have a "please empty your wallet before leaving" sign.

LMAO! :D

[flyingP]

Originally posted by kromekat
think what disgusted us more than anything was the price - £30+ - that's disgraceful

was going cheap huh?

[Iggy]

As we head way OT, let me strongly recommend a sling to new parents. We used one called the Over the Shoulder Baby Holder, which we really liked, but there are a lot of them out there. Especially great in the first months when baby's always sleeping. They are cushioned up next to you where they get your warmth and hear your heartbeat: very soothing to them. Also great for nursing anywhere, as baby is completely hidden and mom is discretely covered. Worked well for us till she got close to 20 pounds...

This thread is great! But let me give another push. What's up with your partners/wives? Do they work? Stay home? Do they wholeheartedly embrace the CG in your soul or do they grudgingly accept it as productive madness?

My wife stays home, though she's preparing to start her own business in childbirth education, esp. teaching in Spanish (she's Colombian). (Around here (Atlanta, GA, USA) there's a huge Latino community but basic services haven't kept up and there's a huge need for Spanish language assitance like this.) I've been working full-time most of the time we've been together. These days I have a fairly flexible situation, though with demanding work. Mostly I'm doing mechanical design and control systems work, though I have been doing some animations for work. My wife accepts my 3D work as a way that I can get out of the office (I hope to be freelancing in another coupla years). But my general computer addiction makes her a little crazy... We're both devoted to Talia, though, and that makes it all okay. I've been active in my daughter's life from day one, and work has never gotten in the way except for short bursts. We talk about another baby, but damn, I don't know how that would work... We'll see...

Uhm, that was a little rambly, but regardless it's in the spirit of the thing. How do your partners deal with it all?

[grstovell]

about the wipe warmer.... There are some that aren't that reccomendable health-wise... due to the fact that they are also scented (I believe)....

The one we have connects to the wall, and you have to fill it up with about a cup of tap water... and we got it for about $24 us dls. (buybuybaby.com) -
The sling thing... I agree... It's also a great little thing to have. There are several brands... we bought one and had to give it back because it was just too uncomfortable for both the baby and us... The one we LOVED is the "baby bjorn". And it apparently grows with the baby.

BUT if anyone tries to sell you a baby-diaper genie... GIVE IT BACK I say. We used it for about 3 weeks and found out that a regular waste basket works just as well.... at least until she starts having solid food and the diapers REALLY smell.

[geoffr]

I've got a 4 year old daughter and a 4 month old son. I leave the house at 7:45 in the morning, get home at about 7 in the evening, do my jobs (read a bedtime story to my daughter, help put the little man to bed, make our food), and then I can sit down at the old puter.
It's only now that I can find the energy to get back in front of my machine in the evenings (Only up 2 times in the night now for feeds).
The joy with the work I'm doing at home is that it's a whole story made up with my daughter so we talk about it and make up new stories all the time. She sometimes finds a dead bug and says that I could put it in the puter.
The problem, as with everybody else, is time. A few hours in the evening is all I can do. The weekends are for family and decorating, shopping, the garden. The list goes on and on. I can't do late nights and then catch up at the weekend because it's not fair on my wife.
There's just one thing for it. I'll just have to learn to work faster!
As for the wipe warmer, I saw it for the first time last week when on holiday. There must be better things to spend your money on, like more ram. The little person will thank you in the long run.

[kromekat]

My partner is a freelance interpreter [British Sign Language] - she still works ad hoc, but it has been less over the last year since 'Baby II - The Sequel' arrived - as much as she loves her career, I think she'd be happy to just give it all up to be mum, as the 2 dont balance as well for her/us.

She has been supportive of my ambitions for more than 12 years, several of them while I chased a career in the music biz where she was totally supportive financially and emotionally - I have been a luck guy!.

Since I have come back to the visual arts and family raising, I have obviously taken over the majority of the financial incomings, and we have even discussed the possibility of relocating internationally to enable me to have a stab at one of the major studio jobs, but it's an upheavel, and not something we will do lightly.

I think that if at this point in our relationship, I was just spending all this time doing CG for fun or hobby, she qould quite rightly flip! - but since it's our living...! :)

[flyingP]

Originally posted by kromekat

I think that if at this point in our relationship, I was just spending all this time doing CG for fun or hobby, she qould quite rightly flip! - but since it's our living...! :)

Same excuse here, it's just not a very reliable form of income, my wife will be will be taking the first 6 months of next year free and then maybe going back part time, a lot is going to depend on how well my work is going, thanfully we have put a bit aside but I'd rather like to have that left over for a few other things (a wipe warmer for example,... sorry).

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