Enchanted Forest - Environment/Characters - Howard Day

[pearson]

Suuweet! Glad to have you back! Looking forward to some great work! :bounce:

[polymath]

Woo hoo!!!

[hypronost]

Well thats nice,
can't wait to see more !:thumbsup:

[Howard Day]

Well, here's the progression of work so far.
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest2.jpg
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest3.jpg
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest4.jpg

It looks a little too Shrekish to me, so some colors will be altered. The general composition will stay the same.

Enjoy!

[Russo]

hum.. cool

[Howard Day]

New one.
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest5.jpg

Heh.

[Koma]

yah good ,love the shrek mood he he,nice start:bounce:

[ZrO-1]

Man that's nice. I really like the dappled light...the levels are perfect.

[Howard Day]

Next!
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest6.jpg

Some things need major work i.e. ithe intersection between the trees and ground...
Enjoy!

[MikaelPersson]

I agree with you that it looks a bit shrekish. I do really like your water shader.:thumbsup:
I haven´t got any real suggestions yet, besides to congratulate you on your great start.

[Howard Day]

Thanks. The shrek feel will hopefully dissapear by the end of the comp.
Here's my latest pic. I've started adding Bushes, better lighting, and a better path texture. Also altered the creekbed texture. About the water shader - would you believe that it's not even reflective? :D Tricks o' the trade.
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest7.jpg

The bushes will be slightly altered...

Enjoy!

[MikaelPersson]

Just a thought.
Tilt the camera ever so little upwards and move it slightly to the right. That way you would get a better depth. Maybe you also could move the tree on the right a small distance towards left.
See what I am getting at?

[leigh]

Hey there Howard - very very cool work so far :thumbsup:
Awesome lighting too :)
The water needs work though, but I think you already know that ;) What software are you using??
I think the thing that bugs me the most is the grass - it looks as if someone has recently gone over it with a lawnmower! Grass in a forest should be all overgrown, and in clumps, don't you think??
But great work so far anyway, looking forward to seeing it finished :bounce:

[Howard Day]

Mikael P.: I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll post here.
Leigh: Thanks! I'm currently using 3DSMAX3. Yeah, about the water, any suggestions as to what looks wrong? I can't quite put my finger on it...
And it is a WIP, so, the grass Texture will change. I've already got a good idea of how to fix it.
Oh, and there are only 4, no 5 actual bitmaps being used here. 2 for the sign, 1 for the path mask, and 2 for the bush and twig masks. Heh. Procedurals rule! And, no, no one is ever gonna let you forget that first texturing post. :D

I'm just kiddin yah.

Thanks all!

[MikaelPersson]

About the water. It might be the highlights. Try to make them a bit smaller and harder. Take away the general soft smooth blue tone, in general make it harsher.

These were the first thoughts that occured to me. Try. See how it looks.

[Clanger]

Excellent start.
You list the texture bitmaps, the tree trunk's not there, so are they procedural?
Any tips?

[Howard Day]

Clanger: Correct. I'm not going to give away any secrets, but I can tell you that they're made with standard Noisemaps.
Mikael P.: Like this??
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest8.jpg

Heh. Those bushes are lookin good!

[MikaelPersson]

aj. this is hard. I think the highlights should be just a bit softer, probably more towards the old ones. But I dont think that they are the real problem. In my eyes it´s the soft blue tones in the dark areas. Water doesn´t have that soft shading, there are quite bright contrasts in water. In general try to make the shader filld with more contrast, lessen the softness in it.

(is this helping, or am I just to vague?)

[Howard Day]

I know what you mean. In this case, however, I think that the reflection (and that's what it is - a fake reflection of the sky) would be slightly blurry. Mainly cause you'd be looking at the sky through who knows how many imaginary leaves. I think the water as it stands now is pretty accurate. What i'm doing now is adding caustics to the rocks, another sign, wires on the fence, better shaded bushes, and better grass. The next pic will be up tomorrow.
Until then, goodnight.

[Howard Day]

Aww. Why wait?
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest10.jpg
And a closeup of the new signage....
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest11.jpg

Enjoy!

[leigh]

I think the thing that initially bugged me about the water was the blueish colour in it - because a river in the middle of an overgrown forest wouldn't really have much blue sky to reflect. It's looking cooler now, though :thumbsup: Is that scum floating on the surface of the water, or is it the jpg compression thats making it look a bit furry??
The caustic reflection on the rocks are cool! But maybe a bit too strong :shrug:
The footbridge looks better now too :)
Love the signs heheheh!! :scream:

[MikaelPersson]

Good work. I like your sign, and the wires did ad alot. Yes you could be right about the water. You could try a darker blue tone to it.
The caustics is nice, but Leigh is right, you should turn it down.
But you are probably right concentrating on the rest to. That´s one of my great faults when I make private stuff, concentrating on one single detail forgetting about the rest.
good night to you, I´ll continue here at work.

[[msf]]

dont think there is anything you can do to loose the shrek feel of this one :)

Its great I love the signs.

[leigh]

heheheh yeah I'm afraid it's going to look Shrekish no matter what :p
And that's a good thing - because I loved Shrek. It was brilliant.

[Adam]

Hey Howard looks great like always. Definetly the best so far. The lighting is really great. I have a question for you. Is their much of a market in little old Eugene for a 3d artist.? Just wondering cause I'm coming down to Eugene this weekend to see my girlfriend. I wouldn't think there would be to much but there must be some cause you can mange to freelance. NOT that you aren't wonderful its just Eugene is pretty small and has no really big bussinesses (with a couple of exception). Just wondering what type of freelance work you do most often.

Your scene is really looking great.

:wavey: :wavey: :buttrock: :wavey: :wavey:

[Howard Day]

Leigh: It's not scum. Its a bit of greenish reflection I added in there to, once again, simulate relections of foliage.

Mikael P.: They've been turned down. They're not quite as noticable now.

[msf]: We'll see. :D

Adam: Thanks. Unfortunately, there isn't ANY market in Eugene of freelance 3D work. Pretty much it's only print work. With the occasional commercial. I'm barely pulling through. Most of my work (Adidas) comes from Portland. That's why I have another job - camp counselor out at Camp Harlow. That'll take care of me for the summer...


Here's the new one.
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest12.jpg

All comments welcome!

Enjoy!

[Howard Day]

Next!

http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest13.jpg

Enjoy!

[parallax]

great stuff:thumbsup:
really cool.
one thing though.
I dont really like the POV.
maybe a lower(frogman) one will do the scene more justice.
Or a more wider angle.
Maybe even some 'coulissen' (i dont know the english word);
a big obscuring object in front of the camera.

[polymath]

problem with the last one?

[Howard Day]

I don't know - it's your server. It seems to have cut out... DR Jones is having the same problem...

[Howard Day]

And here's two more - illustrating the use of particle sprays for foliage and fairies.
At frame 0
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest14.jpg
At frame 100
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest15.jpg
Same scenes!

Enjoy!

[polymath]

the images before that one work fine... It was just that last one on the other page, that couldn't be my server having a prob if the others work (I refreshed my cache too - I'm not stupid ;D)

*Edit: One of my other uses tends to abuse the bandwidth, I suspended his account temporarily to lessen the strain. Hope that solves it ;)

[polymath]

I think you need some 'shrooms :)

It'd be great if you could catch the "dusty" feel I'm envisioning when I see this but its great without it :)

[Jacko Cohen]

:thumbsup:
cool textures.
cool lighting.

:thumbsdow
boring composition. the POV should be from a lower hight. Like wwe are on that road and have to make up our mind.
The trails should disappear behind some rocks or trees. Not straight off-screen.
Build the mood. Give it some mystery.

[Hexodam]

love this :applause:

The only problem I see is that its too much of a background, the eye needs something to focus on :)

[ZrO-1]

Ohhh cool stuff...so you're going to have new growth spring up on the ground that the fairies fly over? Is that right? It's a great idea if it is:thumbsup:

[Howard Day]

Shrooms are on the way. Just a note of interest, this is only about 20% done. There's soooo much more that I'm going to add. That dusty feel that some mentioned is also on the way. In fact, I started working of that from the very begining, and just recently got it to look right.

Jacko Cohen: The viewpoint is going to stay the same. This is because there will be a character *making* that descision on which way to go. The end aspect will be much different, though. It'll be twice as wide.

Hexodam: That's because this is the background. I'll be adding more central things later. I've only been at this for 2.5 days, and you guys think I'm done!! No sireee! Much more to come. I'll post the newest pic when I get home.

Till then, bye!

[Russo]

Cool my scene will have faeries too :buttrock:

[urgaffel]

I like it, but I don't like the tree texture. It doesn't match the quality of the rest... Bitmaps might be a better idea :/

Another idea would be to add a slight slight greenish fog to the background. A subtle touch that will add alot. And of course, volumetrics ;) But I asume that you'll add them later...

Keep it up.

*edit:

oh yeah, you need to refine the areas where roots meet the ground. Kinda like this (it's an image I did way back in '96...) not as good an example as I'd wish, but still... (http://pchan.vi2.com/gallery/forcesofnature.jpg)

Cheers

[Bahlswede]

Great job Howard, really like this one. Only crit is that alot of the textures look really procedural, well mostly the dirt maybe to bumpy. Look forward to seeing the updates. :thumbsup:

[MikaelPersson]

It´s hard to give any suggestions at this moment. Most of the things one could point out I assume that you´ve allready thought about. The only thing besides that I can think of is to differentiate the bark of the trees, between the right side and the left side. Make the right side a bit more enchanted. Not to much, but just slightly.

[leigh]

Hey Howard - this is just looking better and better!! :thumbsup:
I can't really add much to the suggestions that have already been made, I just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying seeing this one come together :)
And it's only 20% done?? :eek:
Can't wait to see how awesome 100% is going to be!! :bounce:

[fellah]

just wanted to step in and say: WOW! really nice mood in this pic, and if it's only about 20% done as you said, WOW! 5 stars, definitely...

ps: no crits for me at this point as I'm sure you already know what and how to fix it.

[Howard Day]

Howdy! Thanks for all the comments! Here's thr first new image using the new layout. I think this gives it (the pic) an incredible painting like feel. Which I now want to keep at all costs.
Anyhow.
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest20.jpg
Some of you will imediately notice that the blue is back in the water - I noticed that as I was rendering it. It'll be fixed by the next post.
Here's the new sign:
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest21.jpg
Heh.
And a closeup of the cottage:
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest22.jpg
Enjoy, and all comments are welcome!

[leigh]

:eek: :eek:
Well, apart from the blue water, this is INCREDIBLE!!!
:applause: :applause:
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[epatnor]

Well Howard,

It's looking awesome! Great progress and feeling to the scene. But if I might suggest one thing previously mentioned by another user: have big obscuring objects in the foreground to "crop" the scene a little. I'm seeing a hill with grass and pebbles, prefferably with the path you have (going by the signs) in the middle, with big tree trunks on both sides, kinda with dark lighting but in the immedate foreground - this would produce the crop I'm after.

Whaddya think??? It will most certainly add to your Shrekkish look!!

Do you get me? Is it something you could use?

Of course it will put your texturing skills to the test since thiese things are in the foreground, but wait... coming to think of it, there shouldn't be a problem letting the foregound be a little (or a lot) out of focus!

WTH, I'll just post my (much better :p) version of your forest to show you what I mean:

[epatnor]

How do you like my painting skills? You know they are the backbone of every artist's success!!! :wip:

[MikaelPersson]

Evolving real nicely.
A pity the pictures wont show up though. A just got a glimpse of your whole scene. Once, the other times I reloaded it refused to show.
Maybe it´s just me. But I kind of liked the extreme blue tone in the water.

[Howard Day]

epatnor: A good idea. However, finding a good place to put such a thing. It would block too much of the scene. But I will give it a shot...


Every single server I have is going haywire. It's driving me nuts.
Here's the new one. I've added a lot of new stuff. Furnaces for the cottage (smoke to come), a satalite dish on the cottage. (can you find it?) Also added a door, and fixed the windows. And various trees and bushes. I've also tried something new on the trees. I think it looks much better than the old texture. I also fixed alot of the problems with the water. It turns out that it was reflecting the fill lights. Not good. Fixed!

http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest30.jpg

Anyhow, You can kinda see where I'm going with this. It's going to be fantasy mixed with modern-day references. As seen in Shrek. (Why mess with a good thing??) :D Up Next, The Toll Booth!

Now do you believe me when I say its only 20% done?

Enjoy, all!

[psumo]

great job
very nice image with lots of detail
it reminds me of claymation or a trainset

The tree texture looks like it's being projected
with a cylinder which looks bad.
I suggest getting a bitmap texture on the tree
procedurals look too regular and cg
Where the tree root hits the ground needs to be blended more also

I like the beams of light in the previous post
The most recent doesn't look quite right
maybe it is too thin

A little moss on the rocks would look nice

This is looking great keep it up

[urgaffel]

2 crits (well... more like 1 crit and 1 demand :)):

1: I want fog!

2, maybe add more greenish light to the scene. Right now I feel it's a little too dark. It's good, but it can be better.

Keep it up :thumbsup:

(and blend the roots to the ground!)

[Howard Day]

psumo: Hmm. Maybe. I personally believe that you can do just about anything with procedurals - plus I don't look forward to painting 30 odd tree maps. :D

urgaffel: And fog you shall have. As for the ambient light, it's been increased also.

About the roots - they are supposed to be looking like that. I've walked outside and looked, and that's pretty much how they look. I'd have to agree, though were root hits grass. It'll be taken care of.

Here's the new one! I still have to add the dock, but you get the idea. I've added about 500 mushrooms, a lot more rocks, a porch for the cottage, chopped wood for the cottage, a stump, more trees, and fixed some lighting issues (mainly the lack of sunlight streaming through...)
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest34.jpg
If that URL doesn't work, here's an alternate!
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest34.jpg

Enjoy, and as always, comments are welcome!

[ZrO-1]

I found the Satelite dish! do I win a prize? :p

Seriously though, I really like your latest version. Right now it probably has the most fantasy feel of all the forest pics so far. I look at this and I think Snow White or Pinochio from disney. It really has that classic fairy-tale feel to it.

[Howard Day]

Why, thank you.


Now to add the details.

:D :applause: :applause: :thumbsup:

[urgaffel]

Sweet! Add the shadow of a character projected on to one of the windows.

Lighting is a little better, but it's still too "black", should be more greenish. Also, the water looks a litte like animated clay. I think it might be because of lack of reflections and the colour. Maybe opacity too...

[epatnor]

Ur the man Howard! Now you´re really cooking! Great when inspiration hits you, is'nt it? :wip:

I can see now why my proposal presents trouble to you. The aspect ratio of your scene (is it IMAX or SuperDuper Panorama or what? - like it nonetheless!) clearly makes it hard to crop in the way I meant. The is quite obvious by my example as well... With 4:3 you could have gone my way. But unfortunately it's your pic, so I guess you're entiteled to do whatever you want with it! :D

Well I guess you would also like some constructive crit (!?) as well:

I agree with urgaffel about the stream of mud you have. But on the other hand, if Shrek should be living in that house, I'm sure he'd love it! :p On the other hand, if it's supposed to be water (j/k - of course it is) then it's much better in the latest version w/o the reflection of the fills.

If you're going to slap some fog on there, be subtle.

Again I agree with urgaffel - try to match more greenish light with the glowing particles you have to achieve a brighter but yet dreamy feeling to the scene.

What is it on the right? A fence or telephone lines? If telephone lines (or power lines) then maybe make them more metallic to reflect light better? Kinda cool when you get the feeling that the gnomes are trying to achieve a certain level of technology in this fairy world!

Satelite dish LOL!

Cheers :beer:
Patrik

[MikaelPersson]

This is evolving so nicely. I really like it. You can feel the magic growing.
I like how your water is turning out. But if it´s supposed to flow that fast as it looks like. I think there should be more foam. You could add a stone that the water flows around to add more diversity.
I agree with the stone critique. You should darken them or add more variety to them, they look to even.

:thumbsup:

[Howard Day]

Wowsa. This thread just keeps getting bigger and bigger! Here we go!

urgaffel: I know what you mean about the lighting. However, when I try and change it to green-blue-gray, it screws the whole scene up. Suddenly colors are clashing, etc. I might try brightening it up a bit (15%?)

epatnor: Thanks. It's not so much "slap" as "place". All the default fog setups are terrible. So, of course, I had to do it myself. Yay for cylindrical gizmos!

Good idea on the greenish fairy dust. I'll definately give it a shot.

That's a Human sized fence. The point is to give the idea of the "normal" forest being off limits. I'll put no tresspassing and no hunting signs on there later. Maybe some razor wire. :D And there's allready going to be power lines. First thing I though of, after the Sat dish.

Mikeal P.: Good point. I'll see what works.

Here it is!
What's new:
Mail boxes. Not a visible as I'd like, but they're there.
FOG!
Ladder going up to the stump.
Wider perspective.
Dock.
Different placement of the Sat dish.
Higher res shadow maps.
More rocks.
Better Water texture. (not by much, though)

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest50.jpg

Crit?
Enjoy!

[leigh]

:applause: :bowdown:

Hey Howard, that is truly truly superb :thumbsup:
I love the sign with the boot and the little person!! LOL! Great touch. You scene has so much atmosphere and personality now.

The water still bugs me though :hmm: It's the one thing that doesn't look right in your scene to me. I think it's because of the way the light falls on it and casts shadows on it - the specularity of the water seems to similar to the surrounding grass and rocks, which therefore makes it appear hard too. Maybe try adding some sparkles and highlights?
Also, the foam on top of the water - that's cool, but you would only really get that in a huge torrent, not something that in reality is really just a teeny weeny stream :surprised Although, it does look cool.... Perhaps a bit of artistic license should be allowed.

Anyhoo, I believe some stars are in order, 5 to be precise...

[Howard Day]

Sparkles? Excellent! Will do.
5 stars? Whoopee! :D

[hypercube]

Wow! Been missing out on this one..kickass stuff. :thumbsup:

Love the sign with the boot :)

Maybe a couple of other definitive things to establish scale? If you kind of look around at it, either the mushrooms could be huge, and the bushes lining the river could be trees, which would mean the trees in back were redwoods, or it's all tiny, etc. that kind of thing..just a thought.

Anyway, most excellent, and lightning fast..you're already there with a month left to tinker..sheesh. :surprised

[Howard Day]

There will be a human size character to show the scale. In fact, I think I'll start on that right now...

[Howard Day]

Just a quick update:
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest60.jpg

Enjoy!

[leigh]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Out of interest, how long does it take for this to render? :surprised

[Howard Day]

About 4 minutes. It's only 400K polys, so it goes pretty fast.

[Clanger]

This is starting to look very impressive indeed.
Only 400k polys! This could almost be a real time game environment!

[Howard Day]

Ah- that's 400K Polys. 400,000. A lot. Too much for a game...

[samartin]

Well Howard, looks like u bagged this challenge already... have u got u'reself a job yet ??? If u have u work at a blinding speed, even then u still do (looks like it's finished 2 me) !!!

That is a well wicked image... nuff' said... :applause: :applause:

[Batmanuel]

Howard, I really dig your scene. Love the attention to little details...i.e. the tiny satellite dish. One thing I'll throw in though is that the smoke coming out of the main chiminey looks a bit too uniform to me. Maybe give it a bit more turbulence.

just my 2cents.:bounce:

Keep it up!!

-Batmanuel

[Pentagramma]

Whoa! :thumbsup:

That´s it - this Challenge is over...

Excellent work - the render has a "Faerie" feeling to it, almost like taken from an ancient book, or something like that.

I specially love those light effects, and the tree shadows. It would be great to have human - or not-human - figures walking here and there, doing everyday stuff.

Congratulations!

[Iguiniz.X.]

I just made your pic my walpaper.
It really give you the feeling that you are in the woods.
I love the high detailed environment:thumbsup:
You can just look and look and discover new things.
whith which program did you make this?

[visualboo]

4 minutes? Whats in your system? Could you post some wireframes?

Nice job so far man

[psumo]

the atmosphere in the background really adds
alot to the scene. I can't beleive you're
progress in 1 day

It's getting a little bit too busy though
maybe use some lights to focus attention to
certain objects so they can be clearly spotted

[TVeyes]

Wow, the progress. I'm still working on my 2d sketch and since I last I looked you've practically made a new scene. Go go go.

But, as Psumo said it is getting a bit crowded/busy. As an environment shot it is nearly there, as a shot with a message it needs more focus. But hey, we are only four days into the challenge:) Keep on rocking Howard:cool:

[Howard Day]

Yikes!

samartin: Nope, no job yet. Still a bum. :D

Batmanuel: Good point. I'll see what I can do about that.

Pentagramma: That's the plan. There will be objects that draw your eye.

visualboo: Ah, it's a 1ghz Athlon T-Bird with 512 MB DDR RAM. And yes, some wire frames are in order....

psumo: Thanks. The "attention objects" Have yet to be added, so what you're looking at now is just the background. You'll see.

TVeyes:Thanks. As I mentioned above, it will have a focus, when I'm done with it.


Here's the new one. (Maybe a bit overboard with the sparkled water? I think I'll make the sparkles smaller.) Check out the new stuff in the upper left corner...

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest70.jpg
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest70.jpg

Enjoy, and Crit is welcome.

[ZrO-1]

Oh man I LOVE the sparkles! :love: Yeha maybe a tiny bit less intense with the flare coming off the sparkles, but it's really dam close to perfection. 5 weeks left and already I think you have a PERFECT piece.:thumbsup: :applause:

[Carlocki]

great work
give a sense of grace and peacefullness

one question
how many lights do u use?
where palced?


thanks

[polymath]

Can't live with out that Sat Dish ;) hehehe, love the shrooms, love the whole pic :)

[Joril]

One word.
Enchanting.

[elfufu]

looks great but i do agree on it looking a bit crowded, at least as a still. if this were animated then it would be perfect.


regardless its awesome. lets see wireframes

[Howard Day]

WIREFRAME!

Just something to tide you over 'till I get the next step done...

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest71.jpg

Enjoy!

[urgaffel]

Damn man, don't you ever sleep? Or work? I wish I had more time over for 3d... Oh well, to the crits:

Sparkles should be a little less intense. They almost look blurry because there are so many of them at the same place... er... Less is more ;)

I was going to point out that the upper left corner was a little empty, but you've already fixed that...

But I do agree with the others that it's becoming a sensory overload now. Maybe lessen the number of signs? Don't know if they are all needed...

I look forward to seeing the attention grabbers!

As for the lighting, have you tried changing the shadow colour to something a little more greenish? That might help a lot...

[ACFred]

.

[Howard Day]

ACFred: An amazingly cryptic remark.

urgaffel: No, to both questions.

Here's the new one.

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest80.jpg

Enjoy!

[urgaffel]

So... Sweet.... You really caught the fantasy mood in the environment!

You da man! :)

:thumbsup:

btw, how about that shadow in a window?

(I'm impressed that you got this much detail out of so little geometry. Good job)

[Briareos]

that is one insanly busy image. it hurts my eyes.

[ambassador]

great work, needs a focal point though

an object in the forground would create more depth.

[polymath]

I don't think the image is busy at all; there is just more to look at, its a whole world of its own to get caught up in.

Had I been in this world, I would have probably built my house (if I were a teeny person) in a tree to avoid being stepped on. Maybe a few ladders on the trees or doors?

If you like it busy Mr. Day, like I do, then perhaps you will add a boat to the dock?

Are you making a huge world 360 degrees around or are you only making what will be visible through the camera? I have a few suggestions depending on that for ya :)

Edit: I think the dirt paths look a bit too clean, the sun looks like a rain storm just ended, perhaps some muddy puddles? or not. ;)

[MikaelPersson]

I like the new water, glad you ditched the sparkles in it. It´s enough with the glow.
As mentioned earlier, the smoke from the house should be delt with. I am not familiar with lightwave so I cant give you any solutions there. It looks to much like a transparent fractal to me. Couldn´t you add a particle system or something?

A thought about the moss on the stones, make some of them completely overgrown with moss (on the top).

You really have a fine piece of work there :bowdown:
It sure will be interesting to see how far you made it when the challenge is over.

[benhaines]

Judging from the shot above its Max not Lightwave, but I agree, certainly the bigger plume of smoke is missing something.

Great Work! :thumbsup:

[ZrO-1]

RE: the comments about the picture being too busy. I respectfully disagree about the composition being too busy. Given the size format of the render, and the subject of human - magic interaction, I think that the level of detail is entirely appropriate. I personally enjoy the fact that it takes more than 30 seconds to see everything in this composition. I like it when I look at various parts of the image I notice new things each time I look at it.
Just my opinion, no insult to anyone else here.

[Adam Klein]

love this little village, definitely not too much stuff, definetly put more moss down, moss make things seem magical in these settings, 'cause then everything is alive, even the rocks ;)

[Tellerve]

Umm, wow, I'm not sure if I want to compete now. I hope that whole I don't have a job yet, I'm a bum thing, is just an act. You just haven't sent out a lot of demo reels right? Man, otherwise, if you don't get a job then what hope is there for me?

I agree with ZrO-1 that the scene isn't too complex but on target for the kind of enchantment that is needed. It reminds me of pictures I've seen where all sorts of things would be happening that you wouldn't see the first time. Like goblins hiding in the crooks of trees, etc. etc.

benhaines- You think it is max? really? Hmm, if so then max has changed a bit since I last used it. I'd say lightwave just because I haven't seen wireframes of it before and the wireframe shown doesn't remind me of any of the ones I've seen.

Tellerve

[urgaffel]

I think Howard says somewhere that it's max 3.1...

Goblin/s peeking out from behind a tree would be nice :)

[Howard Day]

Yup, It's 3DSMAX4 - I started out using 3.1, but upgraded to 4.
All the comments made are really good.

Mr. Polymath, a boat's coming. And I'm only modelling that which is in the frame. Puddles? Hmm. Have to think about that.

Mikael P.: It is a particle system. I was hopeing to get that small smoke effect, that's so comletly different from normal sized smoke. I'll have to give it another shot.

ZrO-1: Thanks. That's what I like to do, add alot of detail...

Adam Klein: Good point. I'll try it...

Tellerve: I want to get a job near Eugene. I've got a lot of family and friends here, and I'd hate to leave. Anyhow, I have a job right now - addmittedly a summer job, but a really good one. And it is MAX. Goblins might be good. How about a Jackalope? That sounds funnier...

I'm working on the scene right now - so nothing really new, but there will be an update sometime...soon.

Thanks all!

[Howard Day]

Update:

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest90.jpg

Well, Enjoy!

[urgaffel]

I love this

But I can still find things to pick on :D

The mailbox should have something to anchor it to the ground. maybe just a few stones placed at the base so we see where it is. It could be floating. Maybe add a slightly darker patch underneath the stones that you might put there :)

Second, some of the textures look a little blurred, mostly on the path, where it connects to the grass (far side of the pic)

I'm just nitpicking, I really like what you've got!

:wavey:

[Howard Day]

Good points all! I know about the Mailbox, though I thought I'd put grass at the bottom of it. It's probably be too long, though.


Thanks!

[Sgt.Pepper]

Truly magic... wow. :drool:

[MikaelPersson]

The new smoke looks a lot better, it sure looks more natural now. But I see your point in trying to make a small particle system of it. Scale isn´t easy.
More details? Add a fishingrod standing next to the door on the bridge side.

[GrAnt]

Wow! Howard, truly amazing!!! Its people like you that inspire people like me! :drool:

[polymath]

Thinking as the little people again (irish accent): They'd probably contain some of the fairies in jars to light the way for instance the sign and the fence. Just a thought, for instance a jar could be placed on the boat as a lantern.

To add to the scale and grandeur, perhaps add a bird on a branch somewhere or atop the sign?

If you were to make a 360 sorta thing I would have suggested a Mill with the whole water wheel thing for making grain.

I'm also thinking the trees seem to be too perfect also. Maybe some holes, marks of cut branches and stuff you see on trees.

[chrleon]

WOW!

This is amazing!!

One thing tho..
Where does the little people enter through the fence?


Maybe I'm just not seeing it and it's there..?

[Howard Day]

GrAnt - Welcome...

polymath: Heh. Nice. I'll see how it looks.

chrleon: The big human sized fence? They don't. The point is to keep these "enchanted" creatures out. Thus it's the "normal "forest. No one is supposed to go through that fence. That's the point of fences. :D
This image should explain it a bit more...


Here's a bit more -
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest81.jpg

Enjoy!

[polymath]

nice boat, though it looks sorta large for some little people. Dunno, you've got a better grasp of scale with the stuff there.

Those branches need ... more branches :P I'm hoping you plan to add some extensions in those branches ;)

If you felt like going crazy with this, you could probably add a visible rope tying the boat to the dock but...

If you were to go with the jar of fairies thing, you may wanna look into "porch lights" or something outside of the house door.

It is, of course, amazing :)

[Mickey]

You know, its work like these that I truly love.

This picture reminds me of a sketch, that you start drawing, and then you add some more little details or funny things. People walk by and mention other ideas, you add those and some more of your own. After a while, you hold the picture up in front of you, and it looks awesome. It has so much personality and character and style and detail.

Truly awesome, Howard. Keep it up!

[urgaffel]

Only one comment on the branches, they are too horizontal, maybe make them more like this:

.\|
..|./
..|/
..|

Upwards and outwards...

Depends on the trees you want of course :)

[Howard Day]

polymath: Yah, this is just a start. I'll add more. Boat mooring? Sure. And porch lights are already planned.

Mickey: That's exactly what I'm going for. :D Thanks!

urgaffel: The branches on the pine/fir trees go out pretty much horizontally. The birch ones, however, are another story. Thanks for pointing that out...

Here's the new one:

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest82.jpg

Lotsa new stuff.

Enjoy!

[Sleepless]

Now this is cool. The attention to detail is amazing. I gotta check on this one again. Wow.

[robpauza]

Howard,

It's looking so nice, I soiled my armour. :blush:

Outstanding Work!!! I can't wait until you start adding some details. :)

-Rob

[Howard Day]

Fairy Jars.
Yup.
Better than halogen lights, I guess.

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest83.jpg

I've also altered the colors of the traveler to seem more, well, realistic. Also fixed the smoke.

Enjoy!

[yahll]

Holly :eek:
This is awesome.
The only thing I don't really understand is why this post only have 4 stars, shoudn't be 6?

My only critique/comment is about the bush/lichen at the middle of the picture It could use more detail or maybe just more contrast.
I see that problem in all the bushes/lichens but I would just care about the central one

[leigh]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Howard Day]

Knock it off, Leigh.

:D

[leigh]

Hehehehe :p
Howard, are you human??? You work unnaturally fast :surprised
By the way, the water looks better now :thumbsup:
And now some more of these...
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Clanger]

£$XX*!&@!!! I go away for 2 days and another months worth of work has been added!
Can the rest of us have some extra time?

[chrleon]

I have to join in on these :bowdown: !

But I think you misunderstood my meaning about the fence..
The fence I am talking baout is the one around the small cottage.
Where does the little people enter to their house/garden..? Shouldn't it be somewhere around where the mailbox is??

Again, maybe I'm not seeing things straight :)

[OZ]

I CANNOT BELIEVE To MY eyes!but! how u have MADE TO MAKE ALL THAT Stuff IN few days!GREAT WORK!:buttrock: :thumbsup: :bounce:

[Howard Day]

Leigh: Just your normal computer nerd. I just stay up late to do it...

Clanger: Extra time? No.

chrleon: Ah... Excellent point. :D Thanks for pointing that out.

Oz: Dedication? Caffine? Who knows?

[Tottebias]

Oh my god. This one is truly amazing. This is more or less exactly the picture I have in my head when I hear the phrase "Enchanted forest". Only better...
One thing though. I would make those green lights with less glow.
This is eyecandy to me!

[the_jonas]

GODLIKE:buttrock:
hehe the "tele-wires" in the left of the pic looks not quite smooth though but that does the same, it's inhuman.

[urgaffel]

Howard, do you have a job? Do you do anything besides maxing during the days? How the hell do you find time if you do work?

[Howard Day]

Tottebias: Thanks. We'll see what comes of those lights...

Jonesy: Good point. :D

[Howard Day]

urgaffel: Heck no. I'm a certified Bum. I pity you loosers who have a job!
.
.
.
.
.
I want to work. Pleese! Someone give me a job. I don't take up a lot of space. I can cook! I can start an finish a picture in 4 days! Take me, please!!!
.
.
.
.
Hem. Ok, then.

An update will be along shortly!

[Loveless]

Marry me O_O

[Howard Day]

I'm a little old for you, aren't I?

:D

[polymath]

lol...

What season is this Spring right? just checking ;)

[Howard Day]

Here's the next one! I've added some lights, another boat, and tweaked a few things...

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest92.jpg

Enjoy, all!

[urgaffel]

I want to be a bum too! Teach me! ;)

Seriously tho, I have to work to pay the rent :( I might be able to bum more this fall tho... Going back to school, gonna study 75% and work maybe a day or two a week, which should free up some time for 3d :)

You lucky bastard!

Btw, OMFG to the new pic :buttrock:

(only thing I don't like are the branches... Looks too much like extruded polys...)

[polymath]

The sign on the fence isn't readable is it? Maybe I'm blind now. I agree with Urg on the branches :( Is the grass in the background supposed to look mowed? Some ground cover - ie clovers - might cover that up ;) I dunno if you wanna go that far but the armor on the guy, you could probably get some intricate, ornate gold designs on em ;)

I know how you feel urgaffel :( This is my kinda topic and I can't get in :'(

Woo Hoo, its coming along - and you've still got loads of time to add OMG. XD

A round on me :beer: it looks like we'll be here for a while, I hope! Keep up the good work Mr. Day.

[leigh]

:bowdown: :bowdown:
This is just looking soooooo cool!! I really have no crits other than what has already been mentioned...

You know, it's funny how in every challenge, although there are loads of cool entries, there is always one entry that REALLY sticks out as being absolutely brilliant, and a clear winner from the start. Last month, Rob Pauza was definitely that one, and this month it's you! :thumbsup:

[pascal_blanche]

had lots a fun watching this thread! Good lord Howard, what a scene!! Now that you got that far, my only two cents would be to add a sence of depht in it.. (fog, or layered fog maybe) for now t's hard to feel the distance in it.. and maybe some branches in the forground... anyvay...you did an amazing work here howard , 5 stars!! :applause: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[levin]

WHOA!
the last time i posted, your thread wasn't even born!
now your on your way to finishing it, an i haven't even started yet.it really pays when you're workin' on it full throttle...

REMINDER: the deadline is more than 20 days away, you better hurry up.

[jason-slab]

wow really nice work:bounce:

[hypercube]

Just wanted to add to the chorus here..you are a machine, man! Some little things to tweak, but keeeerist..you've got a whole month..at this rate you should have a half hour programme completed and into reruns by then. :D

http://www.np2k.com/noncgi/Smilies/twitch.gif It's enough to drive you mad.

Anyway, back to it..look forward to even more..

[Howard Day]

urgaffel: Like a lot of things, being a bum just comes naturally to me. :D The branches are going to need a lot of work - even in the latest pic...

polymath: The sign will be readable in the final. Don't worry about it... :D The grass will also be fixed...

Leigh: Thanks. Like it's been said - there's still a month left. Who knows what might pop up in that month?? :D

pascal blanché: Nice. Props from the man. :D
There's already fog in there, but I made it a bit more apparent in the lastest pic.

hypercube: Not a machine, just bored. Not much else to do... :D Well, that's not true....

Here's the new one!

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest101.jpg
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest101.jpg

Enjoy!

[KOryH]

Although I am impressed by the hard work and the amount of detail put into this thus far, I am a little concerned by the lack of focus. When I look at this I have no idea where the main focal point is. What is the main thing I am supposed to look at?
I feel that with a little lighting work and some good color choices this can be spectacular. Right now it is a good piece of modeling and mastery of MAX, but not much more.
Keep up the good work and I look forward to see what you have up your sleeve.

[Batmanuel]

Very nice improvements! The smoke looks much better.

-don't stop now....

[polymath]

I see the mooring ;) woo hoo and the intricate armor - nice :)

KOryH - Everything ;) Its a whole world within itself.

[Howard Day]

KOryH: I'm going for a contrast. The "normal" forest is to the right (and has a normal sized person, sunny light, and normal trees) and the "Enchanted" Forest (Which has fireflies, little people, darker lighting, and more going on).

The main focus right now is the Man/elf (Whatever) who is standing at the crossroads. All the light beams point at him, the bright patch of light draws attention to him, as does the line in the ground. That's the focus. The rest of the image is for the viewer to enjoy after he's seen the focus. Worlds within worlds.
I hope this clears it up! Keep in mind that there's a lot more time to perfect this...

polymath: Thought you'd like that. Strange - half the mooring doesn't seem to be visible. I'll see if I can fix that...

[MikaelPersson]

I know what you are supposed to do with the time left. Model a hundred fairies and gnomes and position them around in the trees.

It´s absolutely stunning work!
Now on with the critique, I think you should alter the bark of the trees some. The tree on the far right looks good/realistic. But the bark in the enchanted forest looks to smooth to me. Maybe just deepen the bump on them. Or align the dark lines along the growth of the trees.
That´s the only texture bothering me, all else looks really nice.

[polymath]

I'm sure in the final render (which I'm assuming is gonna be huge) the mooring and the sign will be visible.

Is the armor a faded color or can we just not see it that well? Its great :)

[ZrO-1]

If you d-load the pic and scale it so you can see the whole thing at one your eye most definetly get drawn to the person first...at least my eye does. You just need to see it all up on screen at once.

[polymath]

Woo, at 1800 x 1440 (60 hz is killing me as I type this), the image looks really cool. I feel like I can almost walk right into it!! ;) Or is the the computer cleaner high I'm getting? Heh,. I can't take any more of this 60 hz, so nap time ;)

Edit: Figures I switch it back to my normal rez and I can see the whole thing... *sigh* *drops out cold from the 60 hz refresh* And why is it now that I notice the fairies are around his head... omg, I think I've been staring into my computer too long... Giving you fair warning from the danger! AHHH

Enough for the melodrama for now.

[pearson]

Howard, this is looking amazing! Luckily for us, at this rate you will have a job very soon and then you won't have so much time to kick our butts!! :p

I hope this isn't out of line, but I did a quick paintover of your latest image to show how the image could be given focus.

The first image is your image, scaled down to emphasise compsition, and darkened and contrasted to more easily show what grabs the viewer's eye first. Notice how many spots are fighting for the user to look away from the figure.

The second image I darkened all the large bright spots and brightened the sides around the character's silouette so he is now clearly the focus. I think this also makes the user "discover" the little details you've added to the enchanted forest instead of having the details yell for attention. Just my $.02.

[Mike Pauza]

Guys, lets just give Howard 1st place now and have another enchanted forrest challenge for the rest of us.

[pascal_blanche]

pearson, good analysis, it is exaclty the kind of things you have to think about while working on your scenes guys ;) I usually just fold my eyes to check if the light is right where I want people to look at.. another try would be to remove the colrs and check if the tones work well...

[Howard Day]

Mikael P.: I tried some new things in this version...It didn't quite work out...I'll give it another shot!

polymath: The armor is just a little dim. Once again, the higher res render will show all that detail...

pearson: Thank you. Not at all out of line. :D It does give me some ideas, and I doubt the lighting modifications will be as drastic as the ones you've portrayed. Thanks all the same.
This is the last challenge I'll be participating in for a long time. (at least 4 months) So I'm kinda throwing myself into it...

Mike Pauza: Why don't you get in on this one, Mr. Raptor? :D I'd really love to see more of your work. :)

Pascal: Yeah, I just love it when people do this. It really helps to have others look at your work, cause sometimes you miss things...

New one:
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest102.jpg
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest102.jpg

Enjoy, and the next mod should have more revisons. :D

[Gilgamesh]

whoops, I think you got the wrong Pauza.
Anyway, about the image: I can't believe the amount of detail. It is very inspiring, even if it is a little noisy.
What? No student discount? I can't afford to visit the enchanted forest.

[ZrO-1]

LOL yaeh, I think the new challenge should be "Enchanted Forest: runner up to Howard Day"

I doubt anyone really cares, but here's my 2 cents on the light noise issue: on the one hand I think pascal has a good point about the hotspots or reflections coming off the stream's surface being a bit distracting. On the other hand I have seen real-world examples where the sunlight really shines off the surface of turbulent moving water in dappled, low-light situations. I guess in this situation it has to be left up to the artist's intent.

Anyway, the new lighting is better. It seems to be a pretty good comprimise between the two issues.

[sean_G]

your scene is looking great howard. with so much detail your composition is becoming more and more important to distinguish sperarte aspects, and areas of focus from one another and to evoke a sense of motion that you want the viewr to follow.
one thing i noticed that kept my eyes jittering and distracted me, was the green lanterns by the house...
you already have the beautiful green-lighting coming from the forest. to better segment your panoramic environment i might keep the lights by the house all warm tones, possibly a nice shade of yellow- to seperate them from the orange of the windows, yet give the house a warm and quaint lighting aspect of its own- just like how the forest has its own light...

[Howard Day]

Gilgamesh: Wrong guy? Maybe. That student discount idea is hilarious. I've gotta add it... :D

ZrO-1: C'mon! I'm not that good. :shrug: I agree - the highlighted reflections on the water are part of what makes it look like water. :D The new lighting might be better...

sean_G: A good point. The only problem with that is that the lanterns are supposed to be jars with fairies inside. So, naturally, they'd be the same color as the ones in the background... However, I might cange that color. I'm thinking of a soft blue....

Here's the new one...

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest103.jpg
Or if that doesn't work...
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest103.jpg

I just finished watching Shrek... Dang. That's one funny movie...

Enjoy, all!

[leigh]

Hey Howard! :) Looking awesome!! (obviously)
I never noticed this before, but that thatched roof on the house is really well done :thumbsup:
I really like the fairies/fairy dust going around the travellers head - nice touch, it's like he is being enchanted :p
Out of interest, what's your poly count at the moment??
Oh, and yeah Shrek rules!! Brilliant film :)

[Howard Day]

Right now? About 450K. I'm willing to go as high as 750K, though. That's the most I've ever tested my system on. In max, that is. In Pov-Ray, I've stressed it out to about 20 Million polys. Someeimes I wish that Max was that memory-efficient... :D

[sean_G]

well i guess that changes the story then doesnt it?... sorry H.D.
didnt realize there were faeries in there. maybe breaking up the light coming from within the lantern to help distinguish the faery form would help identify the fairies inside. or maybe not.

i t just looked like an incandescent glow to me: albiet a very nice incandescent glow! lol

[Howard Day]

Don't worry about it. It was a valid observation - and it might change.

[urgaffel]

The idea of blue light might work, but it might also be a little distracting, since then you'd have green glows (fairies), yellow glows (the windows... where are the shadows of figures?!!) and add blue glows to that might be a little over the top... But the only way to find out is to test it I guess :)

Where will you be going for 4 months? And what happened with your snowy hovercradt scene? And your epic space battle?

Keep it real ;)

:thumbsup:

[Madpear]

Hi,
You should improve the textures of your ground and of your trees.
The composition is not bad but the caracter is too "rigid", Try to add more dynamic in it, a good position should resolve the pb. Good work, keep it up!

[Howard Day]

urg: I meant that I'd change all the green glows to blue. Isorta looked ok. I'll post here later, so you all can see. I'm going out to Camp Harlow (www.campharlow.com) I'm a senior counselor out there, so I doubt I'll have much time (aka none :D ) for this stuff. On the plus side, thhat pool is niiiiccceeee. :D :bounce: The Hovercraft scene is pretty much capuie right now. It's been shut down until I get a faster computer... The Space battle is still in the works, but right now I'm changine sound effects, music, and getting some voiceovers done... To bad they're all by me. :(

Madpear: In what way? Could you be a little more specific? I like the textures, but if you see a particular problem, please, tell me. As for the character, you can only be so dynamic just standing there looking at a sign, deciding which way to go...Any ideas?

Thanks all!

[sean_G]

well maybe the camp will lend some of its muse and inspiration to your enchanted piece howard, have a nice time and come back ready to blow some art work away. . .
im looking foward to see what some good R&R does for your work!

[Tottebias]

"The Mission of Camp Harlow is to provide a setting where God is exalted,

lives are impacted for Christ, personal spiritual growth is encouraged,

and God's love is extended through the camp experience.
"
With all that christianity going around at the camp, Im sure that scene will finish itself ;)

[Howard Day]

Tottebias: What do you mean? I'm going to be too busy to do anything. :D

sean_G: I plan on finishing this piece up, and then heading off to camp.

The next version will be up shortly... :D

[Tottebias]

Howard: It was just a reall bad joke from my side. I meant that God probably would finish the scene for you while you where there.

Have a nice stay, I'm sure it will boost your inspiration.

[Howard Day]

They might let me keep my comp out there, so you'd hear from me on the weekends...
:D
Maybe.

[Madpear]

Your texture on the tree (red arrows show where it doesn't work) in too linear, too bumpy and horizontal, check the trees outside, the lines are vertical! The ground looks like pack sand, you should add more noise, bump and vary more the coulour of your ground. you should also take care of straight jonction between 2 elements (green lines) here also randomness is the solution. Finally the character: you should plant the sword in the ground, the knight would put his right hand on it like a resting man. He could put his left hand on his chin wondering where to go. Turn a bit his head to the left (enought to see a part of his profile). Good work.

[Howard Day]

Hows about this?

http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest105.jpg
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest105.jpg

Enjoy!

[urgaffel]

red x :(

*edit

:thumbsup:

[Howard Day]

Dang, that was fast. Give it another shot.

[pearson]

I really like the blue! I liked the green (forest-ey), but it just fought too much for attention. This blue is much nicer, more subtle and...mysterious, I think.

I still wish there was a way to make the character stand out more. You've darkened the background about as much as you can...can you lighten the character? What if his clothes weren't black? A tan cloak? Brighter armor? A white stallion? :p

OK, so now what are you going to do for the rest of the challenge? Next week you have to start on a whole new scene! :D Or you could just make a 360 degree view of this place! :cool:

[leigh]

Nope, stick to the green....

[Tottebias]

Yeah, green is better.

[epatnor]

Howard!

I'm glad to see you took pearson's and pascal's advice. The right side with the knight is sooo beautiful - xlnt volumetric light and backlight, coloring, the subtle fog, contrasts... my eyes are filled with tears! :love:

But...

Although this pic is developing beautifully, the downside is now that the left side is a dark mess. (Sorry) :shrug: The attention is now unquestionably drawn to the center of action (knight wondering if go left or go right), but like I said, what is there for him (and us) to see on the left side? :hmm:

- Hmmm wait a minute... yeah I think it's a house! What? Is it strangely small? OK well... hmmm. you might be right about that... can't really tell... But no way I'm ever gonna know what's in the forest behind it... ;)

Well I guess you got my point. Otherwise - your skills kick ass my friend.

Ciao!

[epatnor]

Or I just might be wrong... :p

[sean_G]

id say green was a little more arboreal. . . and foresty. the blue does have a mystique to it though. . . .it really constrasts against its color-wheel compliment---the orange lights of the home that is.

[DigitalSkorpyon]

I've been out of the loop for a while and have just spent the last 20 min reading through all the comments and looking through all your changes. This is amazing. The picture gives the viewer so much to stuff to look at. How many man hours are we looking at here? It seems that this would take me months to accomplish yet you've done it within days. Keep up the incredible work. Oh, and I think that you should try using both the green and blue lights. That would find that happy medium.

Looking forward to the final piece...

-Grant

*This is going up as my background for this month....

:applause: :thumbsup: :buttrock: :beer:

[Kulu_Kulu]

after the challenge an animation plzzzzzzzzzzz ! :bowdown: :applause:

:cry: a freaky style (is this an exact expression ? :) )

ciao
kulu

[Howard Day]

pearson: Good point. The right side of the image is going to be brighted up a lot more. (all that work, and I'm not willing to make it invisible) Next week, I could sleep. :D

epatnor:Like I said, the right side is going to be brightened up quite a bit. That'll loose that dark mess problem.

DigitalSkorpyon:I don't know. Probably around 100 man hours. Maybe a little less. I work fast, I guess.

Kulu: Not a chance. My computer would die. On the plus side, Leigh and my computers could have their funerals at the same time. :D

A note about the fairies, and the color of their glow: I'm thinking on keeping the blue glow, but just making it brighter. I mean, make the actual omnis brighter. I really like the mystical quality that brings to the image.

I know the image has many lighting issues, and I expect them to be fixed by the next update. Please be patient!

Thanks, all!

[Roach[MXF]]

Hey howard, did you have that shabby Enchanted forest just outside Salem in mind when making this? hehe "oregons big theme park" Lovely by the way. -Jeremy :airguitar

[psumo]

100 man hours!
ur crazy

[Howard Day]

Roach: Heh. Maybe a little. :D

psumo: In every way. :D

New one:
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest110.jpg
http://cgi.third-era.com/~HEDAY/eforest110.jpg

Enjoy.

[urgaffel]

:buttrock:

I dunno what to say... So many details... Really good job!

One last thing: the shrubbery in the middle of the pic looks al ittle blurred.

Other than that, nothing.

:thumbsup:

[Howard Day]

Wow. I've finally impressed urgaffel. I'm so proud!

Well, not really, but hey! Good point on those bushes. I'll see what I can do...

[urgaffel]

Well you should be! Considering the ammount of things you've managed to put in there. I'm a detail junkie, what can I say? You've satisfied my craving for little details to marvel at ;)

[epatnor]

Allrigthie then! Now we're talking... great work, stunning!

And now, the smiley that represents my feelings for this pic (this desicion is final):

:bowdown:

Next topic in this thread: "See how Howard animated his enchanted forest."

[kiwi]

Thats brilliant,just love all the detail :thumbsup:



Just a thought assuming all little people are not all good,how about a little people jail with a miniature set of stocks out the front,or a little people outhouse {toilet} :)


Great work


Stu.

[MikaelPersson]

The blue sparkles feels much better than the green ones. There´s more harmony to the image now.
Now back to nitpicking again. That water, it´s not reflective enough. Or rather the reflectivity and specularity are pushed to low. The surface of the water has the same look as the sand.
In the lower right corner it has the look that it should have on the whole. (Yes I know it´s really much light there). Maybe you just need to push the diffuse colour.

How would the fairy dust look if there were subtle changes in colour to it? Just barely visible, no big contrasts like green there and blue there.

Good work!

(is this thread only populated by swedes ;) )

[polymath]

shrubbery

hehehe, Monty Python reference.





Woo Hoo - what will you add next!

[leigh]

Polymath - NI!!! First you must cut down the mightiest tree in this forest...with..... A HERRING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Galo]

Wow this is really impressive work man, but one point .... i liked the green look more it seems more realistic to me, and also i think the blue version is a bit to dark..... and it is a litle overdone i think....

and i saw the roof of the house had some noise on it, or was it bump...... it's maybe a litle to bump then, but im verry impressed you've got some major skillz man!

i think you had to keep it with this version

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest101.jpg

that was the best i think....

:applause: :applause:
-GaLO

[Tottebias]

I felt the green looked better aswell. I don't think it is a question of realism as Galo said though, since faeries aren't all that realistic anyhow. More a question of personal preference i guess. It still looks fantastic, I'm amazed at all the little details you've got everywhere.

[high]

I can't criticise that!

Is too good!

[SheepFactory]

We have a winner! ,

Congrats man , awesome design and composition.

A|i

[SheepFactory]

Originally posted by Leigh
Polymath - NI!!! First you must cut down the mightiest tree in this forest...with..... A HERRING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL ,

We want shrubberryyyyy , NI , NI , NI , NI :D

A|i

[polymath]

'If you want to pass now, you must bring... ANOTHER shrubbery!'

[diazgl]

i'm really tired, so if some of my stuff dont make sense, ignore them.
-Excellent piece of work
-Nice composition, complex scene, completed.
now crit

-lose the blue fairies
-lose the green fairies
-dont you even THINK of using red fairies [you need a very mellow colour]

-the texture on both the ground and trees is ....bad. They are both shouting "lose me". It practically the first noticeable mistake.

-The fairies, dont look like fairies. Try a large glow on the front [only one for each, to show the existance of a light source], and smaller ones as a trail.

-lose the human [ a child would fit in much better, or two children].
-does someone live in those houses or what?
-lose the bushes, they look out of place, try making some of your own.

I think i'm done.....pardon me for me harsh behaviour, i'm not really like dat. over and ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz....

[psumo]

LOL

diazgl:
what a very funny critique
lose the fairies, trees, ground, people, bushes, etc...

If he loses all those stuff he won't have anything in the scene left.

[polymath]

I think that's what he wants ;) So perhaps his entry would do better (if he has one ;)) Either that or he doesn't get it at all ;)

[OZ]

HA HA HA HA!DO SWEET!.......Im really amazed!....Oh god!What icredible images......U are great!great for sure!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Howard Day]

Let me address this things:
Diazgl: Those aren't so much fairies as they are fireflies. Firefies swarm. Depending on the weather... :D Anyhow, what color would you suggest? Please note that I'm not particuarly going for realism here, as the very challenge subject is unrealistic...

"the texture on both the ground and trees is ....bad. They are both shouting "lose me". It practically the first noticeable mistake."

Ok, first of all, the fact is that I took the original textures for those trees from photographs, then studied them and copied them into the MAX procedural engine. That's what trees look like. Note that there's more than one sort of tree in there - Birch, Pine, Cedar, etc. Thus explaining the different ways the bark runs.

You point concerning the children is an admirable one. However, I do like how the current image looks. Particuarly the interaction of the fireflies and the traveler, trying to "entice" him away.
And yes, someone lives in those houses. I'll add them soon. :D

"-lose the bushes, they look out of place, try making some of your own."

Now this one in particular really irks me. Not to mention the fact that I've already pointed out HOW I made those bushes. Those are my work! Sure it's a "click for a new bush" system, but it's one I made for this very challenge!! Furthermore, I can't think of another challenge participant who has used this method to make any sort of foliage in their scenes. Shag: Fur, Shag: Hair, Sasquach, etc. are widely used. It takes far more skill to work around those plugins and do it with the basic system.

So, therefore, I've already tried making some of my own, and I'm very satisfied with the result, thank you. Though there's always room for improvement. :D

I don't mean to chew you out, but your response somewhat confused me. If I've missed anything, please feel free to respond again.
I don't bite.
That hard.


Alrighty then. Everyone, please keep in mind that we still have quite a ways to go in this challenge. I do not consider this image to be "finished" work. I'll let you know when I do.

[diazgl]

1st, i apologize for my being so harsh...:)
I am all relaxed now, and I will explain what I meant.

-By saying "lose", i meant change. What I meant was I didn't think that intense colours like green or red or blue would fit the swarn of fireflies. A golden colour perhaps, and definitely, something to make them look more like single entities, rather than almost "points", besides, fireflies, have a certain size....

-I am glad you find my idea with the children nice.
-I haven't read the entire thread, so i wouldn't know about the bushes, but they look a bit flat.
-Now for the tree and ground texture, its too simple, and stretches noticeable at too many points.Its bad for something that can be fixed in a snap to have such a big effect (bad) on the picture.

As for "I think that's what he wants So perhaps his entry would do better (if he has one ) Either that or he doesn't get it at all ", i'm simply hoping that you were merely kidding polymath. You think i would be here if i thought any of what you said?

a) I dont have an entry, my level of art is nowhere near this.
b) Yeah, i DO get it, do YOU?
c) Using half an hour looking at the pictures Howard Day has posted, while in the middle of the worst head-ache i have ever had right on my GCE day, SHOULD tell you something about what i was trying to say here.
d) Last time i checked, people post their WIP's here for crit and comments. DO tell me if i have done anything BUT.

These said, i will continue to share my oppinions with you, unless Howard Day wishes otherwise, please let me know. And all of best for the contest!!

[polymath]

i'm simply hoping that you were merely kidding polymath.
Don't you see all the little ;)'s? ;) sorry I was just joking around
but headaches can fool your mind... be wary ;) If you have a headache it would be better to take a walk outside, breathe fresh air - than it is to stare at your computer screen mind you ;)

you're going to have to do research and read up on the whole thing before you criticize, you could miss very important things and therefore may not have the right to say things you would like.I hope I'm not coming off too rude and obnoxious or even obstreperous ;)

[diazgl]

nah, is ok. Well, you are right, i should read the entire thread, but the comments I made are for what I'm seeing right now, and the comments I'm offering, are simply to better it from the point it is right now. enough said, i believe howard day must have some stuff for us to see!!

[Howard Day]

Ok, guys. I hate to tell you this, but I've got the flu. Really badly. I barely have the energy to write this. The soonest you can expect updates is around Tuesday. That's the worst case, I might have a speedy recovery. :D
Thanks all for the comments so far, I'm really thankful for all the support.
Here's what I have now:
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest120.jpg
I know there's not much difference, but there it is.
Hope you all had a great weekend.

[Jac]

WOW..... let me say again.... WOW :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: I really like the little sattelite dish on the little house... nice touch. Have you thought about adding any little insects flying around? Just a thought. I mean we still have 4 weeks left.... I already know this work is going to :airguitar What else could I suggest (practically nothing :))

[urgaffel]

I love you. Marry me!

[Galo]

WHEEHEHEHEHEHE........ :wavey:

[ambient-whisper]

i would suggest putting a fill light or equivalent because too many areas fall into black and its hard to distinguish what is what.
i should be able to take a 1 second glance and see whats going on.

other than a simple light to bring out some areas, its amazing what you got done in such a short period of time. keep it up man :)

[G Nilsson]

yah

i havent read the other posts so i might repeat some stuff:

you have too much flat detail, with not very well defined shape.
this makes the image look like just a big noise of details, which makes the image very flat. added to this some weird lighting that doesnt tell us anything about the objects shape.
the materials are also making me a bit confused, because at some places they are very realistic, and at other places (the ground) lacks detail. this enhances the problem of defining depth, since theres no logic to the detaillevel relative to the camera.
i also think that you should settle for a narrower color scheme.

considering the above and the somewhat boring camera/composition,I would say it looks like you have tried to push several different pictures into one big collage.

hope you wont kill yourself for these word.
the ones who should, are those who totally lacks critical thinking who wants yo marry you without even looking twice.

/G

[Howard Day]

G Nilsson: Thanks for your honest opinion. I agree that there are still some (major) problems with this WIP. I will attempt to fix these, although perhaps not to the degree you desire...I always seem to run into the problem of too many people with vastly varying opinions, all conflicting. Can't please everyone. :D

ambient-whisper: Hmm: See below:

urgaffel: Not a chance.


OK, I've got a lot of changes in this update:
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest130.jpg

Anything?

[Kirt]

Bleah ... I liked the lighting in the previous image better. It looks really washed out now. The little bits of darkness added more to the enchantment. But, like you said ... too many people all with different opinions, you can't possibly please us all. In the end you have to do what you like best for the image I guess and say "pbbbbbt" to the rest of us who don't like it as it is.

Oh, that was a bunch of horribly constructed sentences. But, I'm too tired to fix any of them.

Cheers :beer:

[ZrO-1]

I like the new lighting levels. I think this scheme gives the most definition to your surfaces. I had an idea on how you could add some more depth and interest to your bushes with out replacing what you have already done. This idea hit me when I was watching an old Bob Ross show. :p You could add in twiggy type branches inside of your bushes and have them protrude through the deep parts and stick out of the tops in areas. This would add an extra 'layer' to the bushes as well as giving visual support to the various protrusions on the front faces of the bush structure.

Just a suggestion (like all the others you are getting swamped with) :D

[urgaffel]

Gnällson, ever heard of jokes? :P (If you had bothered to read the thread, you'd see how picky I can be...)

About the pic, some areas/textures are still blurry, for example, beneath the sign, at the far right of the picture and the shrubbery in the middle of the foreground-

The lighting is a good compromise, now you can see the details and read the signs and you still see the knight/wanderer first. Maybe tone down the fairies in the bkg, they steal attention :) But their colour is much better.

Trees look better too. Some gravel or sand would add to the path, a little too smooth now.

[xyth]

Hiya!

I liked much more the greenish particles. Now it is too electric for me. Maybe a lightyellow would fit better.

Anyway, the "electric wires" which hurt me at the left middle;
1.) I see corners there! It is made of sticks and not a hanging cable. :surprised
2.) Is it really needed? It is good for a joke, but this pic deserves more than a "good laugh" imho (it is a fantastic fantasy pic!)

-xyth

[Joebount]

The light and dark areas avoid a clear reading of your pic, look what I mean : (sorry for your pic :) )

[Joebount]

your eye cannot catch a point, it is always attracted somewhere else when trying to fix its attention.

[pearson]

Howard - lol, it's true nothing good every gets done by committee! :D For what it's worth, I like the changes.

If you have the time, I wrote a small book over on KOryH's 2D challenge page (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=80748#post80748) about the composition and lighting in his piece, which you might find interesting.

[Adam Klein]

about the darkness... I don't necessarily think that a still image needs to limit the eye to certain places as if it is film or video, when the eye must be controlled a bit for continuity and attention. since you made the image dark which was nice too, then made it light i was happy to see the detail again that was getting lost in the 'eye' limiting darkness. Even in video the point, well depending, is always to light to bring out detail in those areas too dark for a camera's eye, ya know.

btw:eek: excellent work

just a thought:shrug:

[Howard Day]

Ok, a major viewpoint shift, as well as lighting changes. I'm not at all happy with this, but I thought that I'd throw this out anyway.
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest200.jpg
Keep in mind that unless everyone loves this new perspective, this will not be the final viewpoint.
Enjoy, all!

[Koma]

your scene is awazone ,incredible works:thumbsup:

[psumo]

I actually like this view much better
could you move the camara up just a bit though
I'd like to see more trees

[givetommoney]

wow, this just get's prettier and prettier, so many details...

this lil' render doesn't do it justice

[ZrO-1]

I think this viewpoint is much nicer. Really, all you did was change the camera position and light? It made such a huge difference. Here's my thoughts on why I think this works. I'd love to hear your responses to my points howard:
The new camera angle makes your scene seem less expansive. It feels to me like my eye is doing less jumping around and its easier to take in the whole breadth of the piece.
The new angle has also added some scale to your little house in relation to the human. I think it looks much more tied into the rest of the scene now than before. It sort of nestles itself into the surroundings.
This is my favorite thing: The water has much more life to it now. The new angle shows the effects of the flow of the water. Before you could see it was a stream and you understood it's size but there were no suggestions as to it's flow. Now you can easily see that the water flows from the house to the bridge. The stream has a sense of speed and animation to it now. For lack of a better word it looks fluid.

Overall, I think that the compasition as a whole is more refined with these latest changes. It feels better now. As a viewer before I was awed by the level of detail, yet overwhelmed by all of it as well. Now I look at the piece and I still feel that sense of wonder at your refinement, but it feels more comfortable now.

Again, this is your piece and of course your thoughts on the matter are really the only ones that count. But to me you have lost nothing and gained a lot with these new changes.

[Howard Day]

Your quick words of wisdom have opened my eyes. :D
I think I'm gonna keep it.
Any texture suggestions?
Thanks all!

[MikaelPersson]

I do like your view change. One feels alot more imearsed in your scene now. There is more depth to it. And as ZrO-1 said, the water looks better from this angle. You can feel the flow in it.

[Howard Day]

That tears it. It stays.
:d

[Dark_Des]

Particules used in this scene are really great. ;)
...And scene is great too. :p

[xyth]

About water... I really had to work to find the water. In my opinion it looks like a plastic bag put on the ground... Maybe you could try to make it more bumpier, more sharper (not as soft as now). And in the same time, some water drops particles could help... I guess.
It is not a big river: the rocks under the water really gives form to the water, defines the surface -> more bump (or displace map, actually :).

The angle is better: You feel that you are between the human character and the fairies.

Great! Keep it going!
-xyth

[Jac]

you are the man....:buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock: I like the new perspective much more.... This is just too cool for words....

[diazgl]

hm, i agree with the new point of view. I'd like to see more of the top and bottom though....Oh, and for your scene...the left portion of your scene, looks detailed and filled with ...stuff, that makes a huge contrast to the right part of the scene, where its really empty. Also, you need to create the sense that the forest keeps on going for miles. Here, is looks like after a few meters, it stops, or like this has been set in a studio, and the sole purpose of the whole forest, is to depict this little village.

[Howard Day]

xyth: Yeah - I noticed that. It's really strange too, considering that it's the same water I had in there before. I'm also going to add fish. :D

Oh, and good point about the forest ending. It does. I'll add the rest in there. :D

[urgaffel]

Looking really really good with the new perspective. I think 0-1 said it all. Only suggestion from me is a little more dirt on the road/path. Looks too clean. You are doing a really great job with this.

Btw, with the new angle, the bump on the thatch on the little cabin isn't as pronounced. I think it looks a little better like this :)

:thumbsup:

[Lorenzo]

very great stuff !
:eek: :applause:
but one thing I dont like is "the spirit of the forest" color...
green are better, try yellow, or maybe another color.
the last picture contrast is to big.
:thumbsup:

[Howard Day]

K. Try this.
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest210.jpg

Enjoy!

[psumo]

This one looks very bad

sorry but I think you should take it back
to the last step and then improve from there

[AJ]

Argh! My Eyes are bleeding!!!

There's a shed load of stuff in there - all very nice in it's own right (especially the house/cottage), but it's definitely a little Over The Top for an image... all a bit random.

I know that you can't please all of the people all of the time - but if I hadn't followed this piece since it's inception, I don't think I'd have a clue what was going on! :shrug:

Plenty of nice stuff in there though - It would be great if maybe you culled/cropped some of the more confusing stuff and focussed on a single area... (cottage cottage cottage!) ;)

[Sangotten]

Have you ever heard of compostion???

Probally not, okay I have to admit that the picture is way cool and the modeling and textures too but it's just one big rumble of models and light's there is rest for the eye!!!

Tune it down a bit... It's to much, actually if you look at it for a long time you begin to dislike more and more....

Sorry for the hard crit....:shrug:

[Carlocki]

need of minimalist touch!:thumbsup:

[BAROBA]

Great modeling,great texturing
But where is the subject of the image?
The image is so busy that you can't find anything to get a fix on.
In the center there is alot of 'stuff' , but you can't make sense of it...

[Poju]

I just love it!!!

I have to admit it looks bit confucing in that size, but i can picture it big poster, over a meter wide and i think it looks great .

Btw there is something odd going on in river surface, maybe smooth those corners little

[Howard Day]

Virtuoso: A gate? Possibly. I definatly keeping the ladders. I can think of a bunch of different civilizations that used ladders, rather than stairs. :D 'sides, they look "woodsy".

psumo: A point well taken. Thanks for being blunt.

AJ_23: All good points. I think I've addressed most of them in the latest edition.

Sangotten: Now, I appreciate a good crit, and even blunt ones, but this is a bit rude. Yes, I have heard of composition.
I readily admit that the last version had a lot of problems. Heck, even I didn't like it. But maybe, you could have also taken a look at the previous work I've posted and noticed that I tend to sorta skip around, and modify things "just to see how it looks". There's really no call to be rude.

Carlocki: Heh. If I wanted the minimalist touch, I would have stopped around 20 steps ago! Seriously, it's a good point. The image was far too noise-y.

BAROBA: The subject is the traveller at the crossroads. Take a look at the latest version, hopefully is more clear now.

Poju: Thanks. Yeah, the creek is a bit choppy. That's been fixed.

I've gotten rid of much of the foliage, and made that that remains smaller. Also, I've altered the forest itself, and made around 100 more trees. The fog has also been altered. And there are far less fairies, as you can see.
Here it is:

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest220.jpg

Enjoy!

[Carlocki]

Howard u a regreat don't worry.....anyway i love minimlaims

[MikaelPersson]

I like your last piece. Good that you got rid of the fairies.
In my opinion there is definetly not too much things/stuff going on in your latest picture.
Well, if you like trying things. Have you tried adding depth of field? Certainly not much, just a tiny bit.

ah, I had to comment regarding the minimalism. I do love it too. But dont you weary of it after awhile? I mean there can only bo so many white walls. Then you get fed up. or? But I am probably throwing rocks in glass houses now. ;)

[urgaffel]

Good job! Only thing standing out is the water.

A suggestion: either loft it or use a nurbs patch and apply a "real" texture to it :) Or set your procedurals to uvw instead of xyz. The reason for that is, they will flow along the stream instead of going their own way. I think that will help alot. It will make the stream look more streamy.

If you want me to, I'll post a mesh of what I mean.

[Howard Day]

Mikael P.: I gave the DOF a shot. Unfortuantly, there wasn't enough area to give it a good effect. It just blurred the entire image. :(

urgaffel: It's already set up like this. here's an overhead shot to give you a better idea of how it actually looks.
http://www.hedfiles.com/water.jpg

Who wants to see my take on a minimalist forest? Heh.

Here's the new one. I've altered the watter to make it more realistic.

http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest230.jpg

Enjoy!

[urgaffel]

Ah... Weird, they seem to be rotated 90 degrees in the previous pic... New water is much better! Too tired be useful, so I'll just say good job, and good night :)

:beer:

[MikaelPersson]

Render a Z-depthmap and do the blur in post. (compound blur in after effects).
The new water looks interesting, looks more realistic. How would it look if it were a tad bluer?
Good job on the bark of the trees. It looks much, much better now.

[Howard Day]

Urgaffel: I see what you mean.

Mikael P.: Nah. This scene is complex as it is. I don't need another visual effect confusing the viewer. I will give it a shot, though. :D I agree about the bark.
As for the water, it would look horrible bluer. Water ain't blue. In this case, I think it would be a bit brown. Like in this pic:
http://www.hedfiles.com/FS.jpg

Heh.
I've modified the way the rocks interact with the water. Also altered some specular lighting.
Here's the latest:
http://www.hedfiles.com/eforest240.jpg

Enjoy!

[MikaelPersson]

Yes, you are correct about the water. How would it look with that brownish colour and blue specualrity. It looked like that in the photo you sent along.

[Sangotten]

Sorry if I sounded rude...

It was not my intention to be so cruwl....sorry!

...hmm it just bothered me that you've got this great scene of enchanted forrest but seem to have lost the way;) in all the trees and small details, like Joe Bount earlier noted was that the light areas and the compostion of the scene really confuses the eye.

Maybe you can make different pictures of details and not the whole scene pushed in one picture... I think that the buildings of the weee people could be used for that...(they looks great!!!)

Keep em coming!!!